Advice on shooting a moving Fire Engine.

Robbo

Robbo

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Basically, I am a Fire Fighter and one of the Bosses wants some new vehicle shots of the new gear.

One shot I wanted was the pump moving with lights on etc, panning the shot to get the back ground blurred etc.

Problems I can think of its the suspension/bounce on the truck, which would effect the image as I can compensate for the up and down bounce etc.

So I have come up with having to use a fairly fast shutter speed to stop that, but slow enough to get the background blur.

sooooo....... anyone give me rough shutter to start on and a rough speed of the moving pump to give the BG blur at the given shutter speed.

any advice welcome as this is new territory

Thanks.

EDIT: the motion blur only has to be a small amount so you can still make out whats is it the BG
 
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I was going to be cheeky and say "Stand clear!" They don't stop too quick!

Basically you would be needing a fairly flat run to avoid the bounce you describe. The more you can eliminate the vertical movements the easier life will be so flat road or airfield where you can do it under controlled conditions would be the favoured solution.

You could also cheat and add motion blur in PP but the better shot would be in camera.
 
Mickwreay said:
Not sure if you are allowed, but what about two pumps heading side by side towards the A19 on the dual carriageway. You'd have a nice plain green background, good for blur.

Mick
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I wouldn't be aloud that. There is a specific Background close to the station that needs to be in, so the blur has to be ok to show movement but not too much so you can still make it out. If that makes sense lol
 
AliB said:
I was going to be cheeky and say "Stand clear!" They don't stop too quick!

Basically you would be needing a fairly flat run to avoid the bounce you describe. The more you can eliminate the vertical movements the easier life will be so flat road or airfield where you can do it under controlled conditions would be the favoured solution.

You could also cheat and add motion blur in PP but the better shot would be in camera.
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I forgot about the PP side of things.

Would be nice to get it in the one shot thought, I could use some practice in this field.
 
I'm in the fire service too mate, south yorkshire!

Post some pictures once you have done :-)
 
Ok, can I suggest practicing with a car at the speed the pump will be moving? If you shoot with a longer lens pretty wide open then it should give you quite an amout of blur to start with, that should minimise the amout of motion blur you need to add and help to keep the pump sharp. Personally I'd start around f2.8 at 1/60 sec but that is a guess, my brides don't normally shift that quick ;)

Wish you were closer, ex plod would happily help :)
 
AliB said:
Ok, can I suggest practicing with a car at the speed the pump will be moving? If you shoot with a longer lens pretty wide open then it should give you quite an amout of blur to start with, that should minimise the amout of motion blur you need to add and help to keep the pump sharp. Personally I'd start around f2.8 at 1/60 sec but that is a guess, my brides don't normally shift that quick ;)

Wish you were closer, ex plod would happily help :)
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hahaha it would make a great picture if they did!

Well the picture is getting done on Monday when I get my new lens and I dont have time to practice :'(

Looks like its going to be one of those trial and error moments lol


jordanogrady said:
I'm in the fire service too mate, south yorkshire!

Post some pictures once you have done :-)
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If they turn out ok I will lol :-)
 
Go to a buissy road and practise shotimg the traffic. Think your looking at around 1/350 sec to get the slight blur but make anyt wrighting on the sign readable. The vichale would need to be going around 50mph. Think your trying for something like this?

ER5D2817.jpg


exif

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
Lens: EF70-200mm f/4L USM
Image Date: 2010-08-28 09:40:11 +0100
Focal Length: 135.0mm
Focus Distance: 19.10m
Aperture: f/6.3
Exposure Time: 0.0040 s (1/250)
ISO equiv: 100
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No
 
I would go with the faster shutter speed and then use Photoshop to cheat the background , that way it would give you a greater chance of creating the required result ) in time :) I may be able to do it direct with the camera
 
Raymond, yes thats what I am after, maybe a tad more blur. I will start from around 1/350 and see what needs adjusting from there.

Am I right i thinking if the pump is moving slower then the shutter speed needs to be less aswell?

Kevan, I will get some shots freezing everything in case my panning turns out horrific...which is more than likely lol that way I get the PP on it
 
Get there are few minutes early and practice with the traffic before it gets there. It will be moving at the right speed too so that's a big benefit. :)

The shutter speed to will need is dependant on not only the speed of the vehicle but also your distance from it so you really need to be able to dial it in right. The further you are from the subject the slower the movement it makes and the closer you are the quicker it appears to move so a little bit of trial and error will go a long way to getting it spot on.

You don't want to have to ask the boss to drive round the block too many times ;)
 
AliB said:
Get there are few minutes early and practice with the traffic before it gets there. It will be moving at the right speed too so that's a big benefit. :)

The shutter speed to will need is dependant on not only the speed of the vehicle but also your distance from it so you really need to be able to dial it in right. The further you are from the subject the slower the movement it makes and the closer you are the quicker it appears to move so a little bit of trial and error will go a long way to getting it spot on.

You don't want to have to ask the boss to drive round the block too many times ;)
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Lucky the place where its going to be there wont be public traffic etc, kinda like my own outdoor private shooting studio for 30 mins lol

cheers for the advice! Will post what ever I get probably tuesday, maybe tomorrow if I can get a practice actually.
 
A dusty or a wet day.. let the dust or the spray give the impression of movement.. blur the background with the depth of field and use a shutter speed just long enough to blur the wheels. That way the background scene will remain recognisable.



A wet day would be best of you want the lights to stand out against ambient, and lots of shots.. unless you can get the lights over-ridden to be constantly on instead of flashing - chances are the perfect movement shot will capture the lights in the off phase.
 
dont forget to pan...then your shutter speed need just cater for camera shake...+ a bit
 
eerrrr a fast shutter would freeze the background not blur it!!!!!!!

i would suggest a slow shutter speed, somewhere between 60/sec and 125 vehicle does not need to be going fast maybe 15mph at the most, this would give ample time to fire off several shots on one pass. no one will ever know it was going slowly if the background is blured. you could also place camera on tripod with the column lock lose so as to turn freely
 
I've done a fair bit of shooting buses and found that capturing larger vehicles in motion is a little trickier than cars.

The problem is differential movement - you'll track one part of the vehicle and that will be sharp, while other stuff around it moves relative to that point. It's exacerbated by the fact that usually you'll have to be shooting with a wider lens than you would with, say racing cars on a circuit.

An extreme example: 15mm, 1/15 sec at f/5.0



Just forward of the front wheel is dead on, but everything else moves about it.

Moving up the speeds - 70mm 1/25 sec at f/7.1



The top of the window is tack sharp in the centre, but you can see obvious movement in the lower half of the front.


50mm 1/40 sec at f/5.6

20100111_0146.jpg


The front wheel is, again, tack sharp, but the front edge is blurring slightly.

The moral is to choose carefully the point on the vehicle that you're panning against so that will be the sharpest. TBH, it just takes a bit of practice. Keep the shutter open as long as you dare.

I suspect you may get the most effective shot in darker or dark conditions, especially if you want to show off the lights. A more impressionistic approach might be better.

17mm, 1/6 sec at f/5.0, ISO 800

 
stuart anthony said:
eerrrr a fast shutter would freeze the background not blur it!!!!!!!

i would suggest a slow shutter speed, somewhere between 60/sec and 125 vehicle does not need to be going fast maybe 15mph at the most, this would give ample time to fire off several shots on one pass. no one will ever know it was going slowly if the background is blured. you could also place camera on tripod with the column lock lose so as to turn freely
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Not sure who that first line was aimed at but there was no need.

Thanks for the second helpful part though, I will take the tripod see if that can help me out.
 
Rob, tbh I wouldn't mind mixing your 2nd and 4th shot, maybe get the front sharp leading to blur would be cool. Just hope the gaffa doesn't get sick diving in circles! Cheers for that!
 
basically you have control over the subjects speed so thers no point using settings based on a F1 racing car doing 190mph 200 yards away. I thought this was missing the point of your brief. no offence intended.
 
stuart anthony said:
basically you have control over the subjects speed so thers no point using settings based on a F1 racing car doing 190mph 200 yards away. I thought this was missing the point of your brief. no offence intended.
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Only reason fast shutter was mentions by me was so I know there is more likelihood to get the pump sharp, then pp the bg, and or slowly reduce the shutter speed as my panning gets better.

Ont he other hand I could just getthe pump to boot it and see what happens lol
 
had a thought
how about taking the shot as a refection in shop windows at night in a well lit city while sitting in the passenger seat,this method may also damped out vertical movement naturally. (you could hold camera against window frame) and look very dramatic as you race to the scene with the lights bouncing around everywhere.
this will with out dought give a blured background and a pin sharp truck.
 
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You need a rig, as used for cars. That would produce an awesome shot on an emergency vehicle.
 
It would.

I'm trying to think how long the rig arm would have to be for something that big, though :)
 
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