Age old question - Canon 7D or 5DII - doing my head in!!

woof woof said:
My 20D is excellent at ISO 400.

Anyway, the big killer for me is that the 5DII doesn't have a flash and I've never owned an SLR without a built in flash.

I don't see the point of a 7D but the 60D interests me for the screen.
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Our expectations must differ on this. I also have a 40D which handles noise better than the 50D but I still don't like it at all at ISO 400 and above. This is a problem for me as I need high ISO for sports under artificial light.
 
I owned a 7d for about 10 months before I upgraded to the 5d mark 2.

The 7d was spectacular, the 5dmk2 is also spectacular. I like them both. I can't put my finger on why, and it isn't for most of the reasons stated here, but the images from the 5d have something the 7d doesn't. I feel like the 5d has soul.

But I do miss things about the 7d -

I miss the 19 points of autofocus - with the 7d I never needed to focus and recompose. I find myself focus recomposing a lot with the 5d.

I miss the wireless flash mode. That is to say I don't miss having a pop up flash, cos I never used it, but I miss being able to set off my 430exII wirelessly without having to add triggers

I miss the artificial horizon.

I don't really miss the extra frame rate, but I don't shoot lots of sport and wildlife.

I miss the 720 50fps video because I liked doing slow mo.

The biggest thing I prefer about the 5d is the noise handling and also the wider nature of all my lenses. I always felt my lenses on the 7d were too long, indoors i never seemed to have enough room. They all feel the right length now.

The noise on my 7d was nowhere near as bad as the samples in this thread, I know there were some problematic earlier models but mine was excellent with noise.

As for landscapes and portraits though, I dunno, unless you view at large prints I'm not sure there really is much of a difference. I view all mine large on my 50 inch TV so I think I can see the difference. But can you tell which shot was from which in these both shot with the same lens:

this one is at ISO 2000 by the way
5148291212_ca00d95258_z.jpg


IMG_3868-1.jpg
 
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It's not just about landscape vs action. The FF sensor does seem to give better and fuller colour rendition. The low ISO performance of the 5D is far better than that of the 7D, and the 5D seems to be better for portraits too (that's why the wedding togs generally have FF bodies).

If you do not need the updated focus & metering systems of the 7D then the 5D should be your choice. It's a "better" camera in terms of IQ, but it cannot perform as well when chasing fast moving subjects.

The reason you don't see many landscape images taken with the 7D is that most people with them concentrate on other subjects. Here is a link to a landscape that I have done on the 7D, and here is a portrait.

It's not that the camera can't do it, it's just that for these subject the 5D is more suited.

Steve
 
Jelster said:
It's not just about landscape vs action. The FF sensor does seem to give better and fuller colour rendition. The low ISO performance of the 5D is far better than that of the 7D, and the 5D seems to be better for portraits too (that's why the wedding togs generally have FF bodies).

If you do not need the updated focus & metering systems of the 7D then the 5D should be your choice. It's a "better" camera in terms of IQ, but it cannot perform as well when chasing fast moving subjects.

The reason you don't see many landscape images taken with the 7D is that most people with them concentrate on other subjects. Here is a link to a landscape that I have done on the 7D, and here is a portrait.

It's not that the camera can't do it, it's just that for these subject the 5D is more suited.

Steve
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Actually I used the 7d a lot for landscapes. I feel like any improvement on my shots have been more the do with lens quality than full frameness. The argument of full frame was for more dynamic range and a larger field of view - but the lenses reflect this. my 17-40L is a better lens than my sigma 10-20 but the field of view ends up being wider on the 7d

nothing wrong with landscapes taken with the 7d

4687480441_5aee596304_b.jpg


4685385580_a72bbd5357_z.jpg


4566638456_fce3a0ec42_z.jpg
 
There have been so many threads on this subject, and you know what - for most of us I don't think it really matters one bit. You're unlikely to see one iota of difference in images from these cameras unless you're printing really big - and I mean big - bigger than most of are likely to print.

If you want the full fov of your lenses and are into mainly weddings, portrait or landsapes, then the 5D2 is the obvious choice, but it will lose out badly against the 7D for action, wildlife and sports photography, or any subject where you are likely to need to crop the image by any significant amount.

The 7D, is the better 'all rounder' if you want a camera to tackle the full gamut of all subject types including landsacape, portrait and the occasional wedding.

I only shoot family/ friends weddings these days when I can't face shooting myself in the leg again to get out of it, but I've had no qualms about shooting weddings with the 50D and I'd have even less with the 7D.

With the regard to the alleged noise at low ISOs with the 7D, I really don't see it and I've made some pretty searching tests to find it doesn't exist unless you under-expose, which would exacurbate noise with any camera. Having said that, with it's larger sensor and larger individual pixel pitch, the 5D2 should be an impressive performer with regard to noise.
 
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It's at this point that I should go out and hang myself from the nearest tree, for what I perceived to be an easy choice has now fuzzled my brain with all the info I have gleaned overnight and this morning.

To a relative numpty as far as technicals are concerned THIS was a bit of an eye opener

But as CT says, I'm beginning to wonder exactly how much difference it will make to me. Yes, I take landscape. Yes, I am wanting to take some sports action in the future. Yes, I go out and about in cities, but no I dont take much in the way of portraits. I'll have the 10D still as well.
 
Mitzyboy said:
To a relative numpty as far as technicals are concerned THIS was a bit of an eye opener
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That was by far the worst review the 7D has had out of loads of good to glowing positive reviews. I'd honestly suggest you don't take it seriously.
 
CT said:
That was by far the worst review the 7D has had out of loads of good to glowing positive reviews. I'd honestly suggest you don't take it seriously.
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Yes ... as I mentioned elsewhere I saw very few bad reviews. As I have taken a lot of time researching I just want to take all into consideration ... this thread has been very useful to focus my mind :)
 
That is a shocking review of the camera, they don't even know what they are talking about.

how can the softness be from the camera, they either had a dodgy camera or a dodgy lens. How they can compare unsharpened raws against extra shrapened photos from a point and shoot i'll never know

if you are worried about detail and sharpness from the 7d take a look at this shot


IMG_4786b by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr


IMG_4786 by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr
 
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that was the 100mm 2.8 IS L Macro. The sharpest lens I ever used.

Heres another, sigma 30mm 1.4 at 2.2 on the 7d


IMG_0481 by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr


IMG_0481crop by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr

and look at this, 7d with a £90 canon 50mm 1.8

IMG_0743 by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr

there is nothing wrong with the IQ from images in the 7d don't worry about that
 
Had a quick dig around on my Flickr, this was with the 7D, Canon 50mm f1.8 @ f1.8 and ISO 3200:


20100215-_MG_1933 by jj_glos, on Flickr

No noise reduction as I like grain. The detail in the eyelashes here @ ISO 3200 is something I am struggling to get with a 50D @ ISO 400.
 
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You can click this link for a 100 ISO full sized full frame shot from the 7D taken under normal overhead room lighting.Camera was on a tripod and stopped down to f/8 or f/11, released by the delay timer. Exposure was several seconds. I think it's a fair test with plenty of dark areas where you'd expect to see noise if there was any. It's straight from the raw file with no NR or other editing at all

CLICKY

Sorry if I sound like a 7D fanboy trying to push you towards the 7D, which I'm not, but the 7D is by far the best digital camera I've owned to date - ideal for what I mostly shoot, and I'd have every faith in it's ability to tackle the subjects I don't do so often which are the realm of the 5D2.

If I was still shooting weddings full time I'd have a full frame camera like a shot, so there's no easy answer, it's down to what you mostly shoot. :shrug:
 
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I will just add to the fire with this portrait of a Meerkat.

This was shot on the 7D handheld at an ISO of 1600. Shot in raw and then minimal PP in LR3 (I think I may have done the borders in CS3). The lens was only the Canon 70-300 f4/5.6 IS, so not a super sharp lens by any stretch of the imagination.

Exposure 1/640
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 300 mm
ISO Speed 1600

It can do the other stuff, as CT says, it's probably the beter all rounder.

Steve
 
I cant add much to the debate other than the fact that I have a 5DMK2 and I absolutely love it!

I tried both the 7D and the 5 in my local store and I was impressed with both, but something about the the 5 better, I love the FF of the camera and it has performed admirably at high ISO so far!

Rich
 
I've been looking to upgrade to a 7D or 5D mkII, and have decided on the 7D.

My main passion are fast things; Motorbikes, Cars, Aeroplanes, Birds and the dog! So the 7D makes more sense for my interests.

If my main interests were portraits and landscapes I would be more tempted to go for the 5D. Although I still think I'd rather spend the £500 difference towards a lens.

One thing I would say is I found the 5D more comfortable to handle.
 
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Jonmurgie said:
Woop woop... 5DII ordered so should be here next week :)
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I was going to reply to this thread earlier but never got a chance. I went through a similar dilemma myself. 350D to 40D then the 7D appeared. However, I realised that all the bells and whistles on the 7D were extraneous to what I shoot so the 5DII won my heart.

I hope you enjoy it, I've never regretted the decision for a minute. If only I could take the pictures that it is capable of.
 
well you'll feel the soul of the camera thats for sure. it has a something special you don't find in other cameras
 
Am in for it now... just ordered the 24-70L to go with the 5D Mark II, should have everything tomorrow :D :D :D
 
Well done! I've had mine a month now and am still amazed at the quality of the output.

Enjoy!
 
Just to be different ........
I've just put my order in for the 7D, now I just need a lens

Sigma 10 - 20 or Canon ..... oh wait, thats another thread :)
 
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Congrats on your choice, you will surely love it. Had my 5D2 for over a year now and it's great. Wouldn't change it for anything else. Well I would, 5D3 is on it's way next year :|
 
Yay it's arrived :D

5d2.jpg


Charging the battery now... (didn't realise it was different to earlier models, will have to buy more!)
 
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