An Independent Scotland?

Finste said:
That road , the A1 by any chance?, has a real history of serious accidents on the Scottish side. Once over the border it widens to a two or three lane motorway if I'm not mistaken. A much safer road.

Regards...
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Might have been the A68. There are something like 17 speed cameras, so maybe it is a bit ott
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
How are they all going to feel if its a no vote, and we get all the extra powers etc .
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A valid point. Had I been in power or controlling the voting I'd have given the following options.

Independence.
Union with more powers
Union as now.
Union but no Scottish parliament at all.

Let the people choose

Bobsyeruncle said:
Scottish law only applies in Scotland, and English law applies in England and Wales. Like it or not, Scotland is actually a different country. If you want to be governed by English law, and benefit from English education, then you can do so, by moving to England.
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You are technically right and the relocation thoughts been on my mind off and on for five or so years.

The scenery and countryside here I love. If that wasn't there, I'd have gone.

Wales is nice - I could live there if there were jobs with my skill set near by.

Snowdonia to Manchester commute. Hmm I'm thinking now.
 
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Laudrup said:
If it was more sensitive then it wouldn't be near large conurbations.
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It is where they perform the maintenance on the warheads - personally it seems a strange place to locate something like that!
 
ST4 said:
Me, I still feel no matter what we are one people with a shared history and heritage
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Apart from trying to kill each other for a few hundred years you mean? :p
Its seems we've been fighting since 596 and the battle of Raith
And it wasn't until 1297 that William Wallace won one, for the home team :D
 
ST4 said:
A valid point. Had I been in power or controlling the voting I'd have given the following options.

Independence.
Union with more powers
Union as now.
Union but no Scottish parliament at all.
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SNP were wanting to have 2 questions on the paper, one for independence, and the other for devo max, but Westminster refused. Now if we don't get independence, we'll get super devo max!
 
ST4 said:
A valid point. Had I been in power or controlling the voting I'd have given the following options.

Independence.
Union with more powers
Union as now.
Union but no Scottish parliament at all.
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From what i have read it was a deliberate decision to offer all or nothing. It was seen that if more powers were offered it would be a near certainty it would bevoted for and this would lead to more and more powers being given to scotland over the years. Whereas an all or nothing choice with the belief that the no would win would maintain the status quo.
 
Cobra said:
Apart from trying to kill each other for a few hundred years you mean? :p
Its seems we've been fighting since 596 and the battle of Raith
And it wasn't until 1297 that William Wallace won one, for the home team :D
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Probably a few thousand years:D
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
SNP were wanting to have 2 questions on the paper, one for independence, and the other for devo max, but Westminster refused. Now if we don't get independence, we'll get super devo max!
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To be fair the ballot isn't the worst. But there's no status quo. The no campaign has been weak and pandering to try sway on the fence but leaning to yes voters. Rather than try and truly assess the needs/wants of Scotland there's no status quo or reverse some of the devolution which I'd (and I'm not alone) personally like to see
 
Cobra said:
Apart from trying to kill each other for a few hundred years you mean? :p
Its seems we've been fighting since 596 and the battle of Raith
And it wasn't until 1297 that William Wallace won one, for the home team :D
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We've attained great things as one country since the union. The NHS, the winning of two world wars, the industrial revolution. Need I go on
 
ST4 said:
We've attained great things as one country since the union. The NHS, the winning of two world wars, the industrial revolution. Need I go on
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I don't doubt it Steve, I was just pulling your leg :)
 
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ST4 said:
To be fair the ballot isn't the worst. But there's no status quo. The no campaign has been weak and pandering to try sway on the fence but leaning to yes voters. Rather than try and truly assess the needs/wants of Scotland there's no status quo or reverse some of the devolution which I'd (and I'm not alone) personally like to see
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Are you sure you don't actually want to live in England?
 
Laudrup said:
Are you sure you don't actually want to live in England?
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No. I want to live in Britain as a British citizen. Which Scotland's a part of. England's an over crowded and not as scenic part of the country as Scotland. I'd hate to have to become a foreigner where I live and am originally from.

Why does wanting to stay in Britain make me anti Scotland. I just want people in Britain to get the same treatment no matter where about In Britain they are from. That people think because they are in Scotland they are superior and should get free uni/prescriptions whilst the rest if their British brethren doesn't appals me personally. People in Scotland are no more or less entitled to anything in the United Kingdom
 
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ST4 said:
A lot down South want the scots to vote yes.
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I have no preference either way. I think it's good that Scotland gets to vote on its future and whatever the outcome, that will be fine.

I don't think it will change much for either country.


Steve.
 
So another question just popped in my mind.....In the unlikely event that there will be a Yes vote, and there will be a period of 'negotiation', surely the current Scottish MP's in Westminster should be relieved from duty, or at least be excluded from the process and voting, as effectively they'll be double agents....59 should go in my opinion, off which 40 are Labour already (yeah!)...The single Conservative MP would be acceptable collateral in my opinion...
 
Steve Smith said:
I have no preference either way. I think it's good that Scotland gets to vote on its future and whatever the outcome, that will be fine.

I don't think it will change much for either country.


Steve.
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I think there will be massive change here, it's a gamble and I hate unsure things.

For rUK it is a change. Jobs will come your way, prices will go up as you've lost 8% of your economy of scale but also could go down as it's debatable whether Scotland's a net drain or contributer.

However it's symbolic of a nation in decline and that's unstable. Your currency will devalue, your borrowing costs will go up, your stock markets will go down. Why as the rest of the world will see it as the break up of a significant world power and more so a failing of the the government and the English to hold it together (as the are the bulk of the UK). Scotland faces uncertainty and probable decline but with a nip and tuck (that'll not sadly happen)to our politics we could gain. The rUK faces certain short term decline and mid term decline before faith is restored in it abs the net gain of not paying for Scotland actually realised itself
 
ST4 said:
No. I want to live in Britain as a British citizen. Which Scotland's a part of. England's an over crowded and not as scenic part of the country as Scotland. I'd hate to have to become a foreigner where I live and am originally from.

Why does wanting to stay in Britain make me anti Scotland. I just want people in Britain to get the same treatment no matter where about In Britain they are from. That people think because they are in Scotland they are superior and should get free uni/prescriptions whilst the rest if their British brethren doesn't appals me personally. People in Scotland are no more or less entitled to anything in the United Kingdom
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In 2011 Scotland abolished prescription charges. Under devolution, Wales was the first part of the UK to make prescriptions free in 2007 and Northern Ireland followed in 2010. Free tuition is a better way to spend money than on nuclear weapons or other wastes of money like HS2.
 
Laudrup said:
In 2011 Scotland abolished prescription charges. Under devolution, Wales was the first part of the UK to make prescriptions free in 2007 and Northern Ireland followed in 2010. Free tuition is a better way to spend money than on nuclear weapons or other wastes of money like HS2.
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I'll agree to disagree. I'm fundamentally pro nuclear weapons and the only issue with HS2 is this.

It's too slow compared to what could be achieved with simple signal and track realignment over current mainline routes.

We could easily see 140mph with Incab signals and some realignment of a lot of track on east/west /great western routes.

Personally hs2 is a winner but it needs to be 250mph or 300mph London to Glasgow/Aberdeen via Edinburgh. IMHO. The present idea is half arsed. They don't think big enough
 
Laudrup said:
Free tuition is a better way to spend money than on nuclear weapons
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Absolutely. When I left school in 1983, I could have taken up a university place and had the costs paid for and I would have received a grant to help towards living costs. That is all gone now. Instead you end up in debt with a student loan.

Much better to spend money on educating the population rather than on devices to kill people.


Steve.
 
Laudrup said:
I don't think any of that is likely to happen.
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I think all the business related forecasts are distinct possibilities in the event of a yes vote. Not enough income to pay for all the social initiatives. They won't want to cut services so taxes have to go up.
 
i still think that the campaign of the Yes camp has been too political, it isnt about politics, its about being UK or Scottish. Voting Yes because you think its sticking it to the english in westminster will be shortsighted at best.
 
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Steve Smith said:
I have no preference either way. I think it's good that Scotland gets to vote on its future and whatever the outcome, that will be fine.

I don't think it will change much for either country.


Steve.
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Sadly I don't agree that things won't change.

With such a close and polarised contest, whichever way the vote goes, there will inevitably be some very upset Scottish people that will feel disenfranchised in some way. I just hope that the winning side have the good grace to properly take on the responsibility that comes with victory and that the losing side are able to deal with their loss without bitterness. My gut feeling is that either way, as an Englishman the Scotland that I have loved to visit on numerous occasions over the last twenty-years or so will be somehow less welcoming. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong about this, Scotland deserves more.
 
Matt said:
i still think that the campaign of the Yes camp has been too political, it isnt about politics, its about being UK or Scottish. Voting Yes because you think its sticking it to the english in westminster will be shortsighted at best.
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It's an obvious way for the Yes campaign to get votes though.

Salmond has been calling the No campaign 'Team Westminster' and referring to the Yes voters as 'the people of Scotland'. Some people lap that bile up.

Everybody knows Westminster is made up of Welsh, English and Scots and also that the 'people of Scotland' are as much No as they are Yes. Don't they ?
 
dinners said:
It's an obvious way for the Yes campaign to get votes though.

Salmond has been calling the No campaign 'Team Westminster' and referring to the Yes voters as 'the people of Scotland'. Some people lap that bile up.

Everybody knows Westminster is made up of Welsh, English and Scots and also that the 'people of Scotland' are as much No as they are Yes. Don't they ?
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Steve Smith said:
We will know for sure on Friday!

Steve.
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In terms of the point I was making (Salmond's use of the phrase 'The People of Scotland' to describe Yes voters) then no we won't.

All we'll discover is which side comes out on top by a small percentage and the 'People of Scotland' will remain as divided as is just about numerically possible.
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
Scotland's Decision BBC1 now ! - interesting look on history and devolution and cause and effect.
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They'll be branded as biased regardless of their report.
 
dod said:
I think all the business related forecasts are distinct possibilities in the event of a yes vote. Not enough income to pay for all the social initiatives. They won't want to cut services so taxes have to go up.
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Yeah but no but...

If they want to spend more, then they need more income, which comes from taxation. So the total tax take has to go up. However the available evidence says that, in order to achieve that, you have to put tax rates down. Unfortunately that kind of policy doesn't play well in Scotland. Bashing the rich is counter productive, but it is popular.
 
StewartR said:
Yeah but no but...

If they want to spend more, then they need more income, which comes from taxation. So the total tax take has to go up. However the available evidence says that, in order to achieve that, you have to put tax rates down. Unfortunately that kind of policy doesn't play well in Scotland. Bashing the rich is counter productive, but it is popular.
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Which is why their country will fail. Companies are already making bail out plans, sure they may keep a few low paid jobs in Scotland for a time but the top tier executive jobs with phat bonuses and top tier tax - that'll go to the UK exchequer as the HQ jobs won't be in Scotland.

Scotland will waste it's chance to become the Switzerland of the north by scaring business and affluent people away, and for what-so a few more drones can study childcare at uni/college.
 
ST4 said:
Scotland will waste it's chance to become the Switzerland of the north by scaring business and affluent people away, and for what-so a few more drones can study childcare at uni/college.
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And the further irony is that, once independent, studying childcare at a Scottish college might no longer be free. Currently, non-UK EU students are allowed free education in Scotland, and it is only non-Scottish UK students who have to pay. Clearly that would have to change in some way after independence, assuming Scotland is in the EU, because they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate between UK and other EU students.

Yes Scotland says that their preferred option is to charge all non-Scottish students, and that "lawyers acting for Universities Scotland have provided advice that Scotland could justify continuing to charge students from other parts of the UK, without reforming the free tuition provided to students from Scotland".

However if you read that legal advice, it turns out that Yes Scotland have added a tiny little bit if spin here: "could" means "might be able to" and not "would be able to". They might, but they might not. (The legal precedents imply that simply claiming they couldn't afford it wouldn't be adequate justification in the EU courts, though other arguments are possible.)
 
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Isn't Nigel Farage up today or tomorrow to throw in his two pennies worth ?

If a no vote wins Friday Scotland look set to get more powers anyway under the tri-pledge signed yesterday by the leaders of all parties. That's not a bad result for Scotland. That's a massive tick for the undecided !
 
Blank_Canvas said:
If a no vote wins Friday Scotland look set to get more powers anyway under the tri-pledge signed yesterday by the leaders of all parties. That's not a bad result for Scotland.
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And it's a terrible result for everyone else in the UK. Rewriting the constitution "on the hoof" without any discussion or consultation is hardly a good idea.
 
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