Another! football thread

ColinB147

ColinB147

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Name
Colin
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Hi all, this was meant to be my first post but I saw a question I could give some input to so I'll have to settle for this being my first thread!

I'm looking for advice on football photography. I have seen most of the other threads on this subject and have picked up quite alot of info and am encouraged by the willingness to give advice. Having done a few games now I find I am not getting any better, and still have alot of questions that need answering, so many in fact that it might need more than one thread!

Equipment: No problem here ("all the gear...etc.") I have an EOS 1D mkIIN and a 40D. Lens-wise I have the choice of a 300mm F2.8, a 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L and a EF 70-200mm f/2.8 (all Canon).

Now, for the last couple of games I sat behind a goal near the penalty area line and used the 40D with the 70-200, and the 300mm on the 1D (with, and I know this may be a mistake) a 1.4 teleconverter.

I'll post some of my results when I have worked out how!

Meanwhile...

Auto or manual focus?

I use manual on the prime, but I can't handle manual focus and zoom at the same time in the high speed of a game. So I either gamble on a preset manual focus length or use auto with the zoom.

With manual focus obviously it has to be spot on, with auto how do you know the camera will focus where you need it to?

Av or Tv?

Again, I have a rough idea but have doubts. Currently I use shutter priority. I try to use at least 1/800 to get at least f5.6. But should I increase the dof for crowded penalty area scenes?

Well I have more questions but that should be plenty for now. I'd welcome some advice; meanwhile I'll try to see how I can post some of my pics here.

Thanks for listening :)

Col
 
My input FWIW as an amateur footy tog but there are plenty of pro togs on this forum who may disagree ....

The game is too quick for manual focus - the camera you have is more than good enough for autofocus using AI Servo mode - you need to make sure you have locked on and followed the action before hitting the shutter release. Stick to one AF point - preferably the centre cross point.

Exposure will ideally be manual by metering off the grass. If you are not comfortable with this, set to Av and dial in f/4 / f/5.6 or even down to f/2.8. Maintain the ISO to give you at least 1/500th shutter speed but at this time of year you may have to go to a high ISO and potentially slow down to 1/320th - floodlights are not so good as they look to the naked eye.

Never used a TC at footy- tend to use these at Cricket with a 300mm lens.

Swapping bodies and position - can you get next to the 18yd line? If so, you can cover both goal areas. What level of games are you covering? Hope you can work out how to post some of your pics. As for composition - faces and balls, (footballs that is), are the key to a good footy pic.

Will wait for KIPAX and the boys to follow up ....

Alan
 
Alan thanks - all good stuff.

I'm doing park-type games but am looking at semi-pro. Lewes FC let me do one of their games last season but it was a night game and the pro I spoke to there said they were the worst floodlights he had ever seen at that level! I have had a couple of pics in the local paper.

Yes on the touchline by the 18 yard line may be a better bet. I know the ball is (usually) crucial.

As for postinbg pics, apparently I "may not" post attachments...do I need to increase my subscription or something??

Meanwhile, here's a link to the latest games I have done...

http://www.fobgfc.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=797

Col
 
Sitting down is the best bit of advice.. personally I never sit behind the goal unless forced by ground rules... It depends on what pictures you want.. I like goal celebrations so park myself on the dugout side of the ground towards the center with a 300.. I dont use a second body as a rule...

Your best not going over f4 so if your not happy with mnaual mode then go for AV setting at f4 and watch your shutter speeds.

Cant think of any earthly reason why you would want to shoot in manual focus for football. Manual everyhting else yes.. but focus no.
 
Thanks Kipax. Would you agree with this?

"Stick to one AF point - preferably the centre cross point."

Col
 
I stick to one AF point but I have a controller on my camera and am able to move the point about wiht my thumb :)
 
Thanks Kipax. Would you agree with this?

"Stick to one AF point - preferably the centre cross point."

Col
 
One point = yes
center point = yes
center point only = no

if at f2.8 in portrait mode you could be focusing on knees or stomach and the face not be in focus..
 
Hi Colin

Everyones different which is why you'll see togs spread around a touchline rather than all huddled in the same spot. However at most premiership games behind the goal line is certainly more popular than the touchlines, how much of this is us togs being sheep and wondering what the next guy knows that we don't, I don't know!

Personally I more often than not will take position behind the goal line within a few yards of the corner flag with a 400 on one body and a 70-200 on the other. When I shot with a 300 this position was great as I could just use the one lens and get really tight on the goal mouth. However quite often I will sit on the touchline near the 18 yard box which works well too, it really depends on the gound you are shooting, whats in the background, which side of bed I got out of that morning ;)

I always shoot in full manual with autofocus on continous servo. Try and keep your shutter speed as high as possible so open up the aperture on your lens and adjust iso as needed.

If you want to post pics you need to host them somewhere else i.e photobucket then link to them using the little yellow button above the post.

Good luck and have fun, and don't hesitate to ask any questions. There are some really knowledgeable sports togs here (see Kipax etc) and it is definitely the most friendly part of this forum (OK maybe Birds is friendlier) :D
 
A big problem with going down the touch lines is you can have the linesman and up to six players (more for Carling Cup games) warming up in front of you.
 
torquaygull said:
A big problem with going down the touch lines is you can have the linesman and up to six players (more for Carling Cup games) warming up in front of you.
Click to expand...

Good point, and sods law states that they will stop their warm up and stand dead in front of you as soon as there is action in the goal mouth ;)
 
I always try and go behind the goal line but on the same side on the pitch as in one half you will have the left back/winger running towards you and the second it will be the right back/winger. Also if the team has 2 strikers they will each be closer to your side of the pitch for a half.
 
Another tip (more for semi-pro and pro level games) is to check if any of the players are playing against their former clubs or rivals. They might get booed and a bit of abuse during the game by the fans, but if they score they can make for extra special celebration pics.
 
If the game finishes 1-0 and your have the linesman and subs in font of you though when they score. :bonk:
 
You obviously have all the kit and if you have it go for autofocus,however remember that some of the greatest football shots ever were taken when autofocus was just a dream so always be prepared to try it.As far as where to stand/sit it very much depends on the level of game that you are covering,I do purely amateur and the very bottom end of the semi pro game so I can wander around the pitch at my leisure,I do find though that my best shots (personal opinion) are taken from on or around the half way line and certainyly with your 400mm you will still be able to get goalmouth action.
I always shoot in shutter priority and try to keep speeds above 1/500th not only to keep the players sharp but to stop the ball blurring as well,and use AI Servo focus linked to the centre point
 
Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the feedback. An extra bonus to hear the birders are friendly as well!

Nobody mentioned the 100-400 zoom, this has also served me well in the past; I can always use that if I want to dispense with switching between the two bodies I guess. Or is the min. f4.5 prohibitive?

Okay, the adjustments I'll make for my next game:- autofocus all the time; meter off the grass, and set to f4. Possibly change from sitting behind the goal to a touchline/18 yard box position, depending on the geography/sun/linesmen etc.

I adopted the 2 bodies route after speaking to a pro (er, tog?) before a Reading-Spurs game - he used a 400mm and a 70-200, so I extended my 300mm with a tc, which helps alot, certainly on bright days.

The thing that worries me most is the AF point. I'll start with fixing to the centre point until I get more confident.

and thanks for the posting tip - I have a website on Photium, I'll see if I can use that.

Cheers,

Col
 
ColinB147 said:
Or is the min. f4.5 prohibitive?
Click to expand...

wider open is better. then you sperate players from background.. my preference is f4.. others prefer 2.8

ColinB147 said:
I adopted the 2 bodies route after speaking to a pro (er, tog?) before a Reading-Spurs game - he used a 400mm and a 70-200, so I extended my 300mm with a tc, which helps alot, certainly on bright days.
Click to expand...

was it the reading photographer? I certainly wouldnt use the TC for fast moving sport
 
Yep Togs :thumbs:

If I still had my 300 2.8 I wouldn't bother with a second body, I'd lose the TC and shoot the whole game with the one lens.
 
KIPAX said:
wider open is better. then you sperate players from background.. my preference is f4.. others prefer 2.8
Click to expand...

Both my lenses stay wide open at 2.8 in pretty much all conditions with football and rugby. I know there is an argument for sharpness with stopping down but I reckon the better subject separation and clawing back a little bit of light at 2.8 outweighs that. IMHO ;)
 
TheBionicDan said:
Both my lenses stay wide open at 2.8 in pretty much all conditions with football and rugby. I know there is an argument for sharpness with stopping down but I reckon the better subject separation and clawing back a little bit of light at 2.8 outweighs that. IMHO ;)
Click to expand...

its not a shapness thing for me.. its having two players in a tackle in focus.. ok if there coming in from left to right... but front back.. headers ect.. much better at f4 with more chance of both players in.. also if your focus point locks onto summat sticking out a bit.. still get face in focus that sorta thing.. just more of a cusion at f4 yet still get background seperated..

f2.8 when the lighting goes...........

as we all agree though.. each to his own.. there is no right way :)
 
KIPAX said:
as we all agree though.. each to his own.. there is no right way :)
Click to expand...

Amen :thumbs:

The other thing with sport is how you approach it so much depends on your budget, I was sat next to Mr Getty at a recent game and he was swapping between a 400mm f2.8 and a 200 f2, now that's a serious £12k combo before you start talking bodies. Hmmmm 200 f2 :love:

Doesn't mean he'll get better shots but he won't have to work as hard for the good'uns.
 
The more games you do, you'll find what works best for you and the best positions were you get your best photos.
 
Ok, I have an account with Kodak gallery - let's see if this works...
PhotoView.jsp
 
What i use, Autofocus and Aperture mode, 70-200mm with a 1.4 teleconverter in good weather in f4, and 70-200mm without teleconverter using f4 and coming down to 2.8 in the poor weather/light.

Kipax is the man for the football so alway pay attention to him, i`ve been told time and time again to sit down for my shots, however i missed a bloody good goal the other day cos i didnt turn quick enough haha! and i haven`t yet got myself a stool to sit on, so untl that time comes i`m standing and sometimes crouching down. lol....

Example anyone?
3250963733_0c3baf7645.jpg

3256186587_aced99b7e0.jpg
 
Nice one! I do have a stool, but I forgot it for this shoot and "borrowed" (and broke!) the home team's bucket! In answer to Kipax, I hasten to add the tog at Reading wasn't using a tc - he had a 400 f2.8

Okay, I think I may have cracked this posting lark...here's a test...
IMG_5152.jpg
 
Some of those last close-in shots with blurred background are just the sort of thing you're looking for.

I dont do football myself, being more of a rugby man, and haven't got that much experience yet. However, I work as follows:

- 300 2.8 set at 2.8 to get maximum background separation
- 1D3 set to 10fps AIServo with centre point focus which I will change using the joystick if shooting in portrait to get the face in focus.
- If the light is good enough, I'll use manual. If it's a sunset situation with floodlights coming on and getting brighter I'll use Av mode until it all settles down.
- Tweak the ISO to keep the shutter speed at or above 1/500th.
- Usually shoot jpeg if speed of distribution is vital, otherwise RAW.
- Rear LCD turned off (distracting) - I check it every now & then to ensure the exposure is OK.
- Often shoot tethered to a laptop to select and caption pics, and then FTP them up the line.
- Occasionally use a 2nd body with a 70-200 but I find it gets a bit complicated and I get confused easily.
- Usually shoot from as low as possible, using a 3-legged fold up stool. It's funny - all these togs with £1000's of kit using a £5.99 stool from Argos. Hahaha!
- If possible, pick the location with the best background as your main priority, and wait for the action to come to you. Nothing worse than a great shot with a crap background full of dweebs in yellow hi-viz.
 
Thanks once more. I've learned a hell of alot from you guys.

I've watched togs at pro games (sometimes more than the match :lol: ) and have looked on in awe while they keep one eye/hand on the action thru the lens and the other eye/hand on the keyboard.

Who operates those remote cameras behind the goals? How does that work, ie can you trigger 2 cameras with one release?
 
2 Pocket Wizards are what i use - one on a wide angle placed behind the goal which is triggered by the other one on my 70-200mm lens which is used to capture the goal mouth action.
They can be hit and miss but they do look good when the goal is scored from around the six yard box.
 
Torquaygull, could you elaborate please? I understand the setup on the camera behind the goal, fitted with a PW. Now, on your 70-200 camera, do you have a PW velcro-ed to the camera/lens on the same frequency as the one behind the goal and fire them both from that PW, rather than the camera button? Or am I way off?!
 
I have the older PW which only have 4 channels. On my 70-200mm camera i have a PW on channel 1 (unless somebody else is already using this channel) on my hot shoe and the other PW on the camera behind the goal also on the hotshoe and set to the same channel and i use a cable that fits into the top of the PW and the other end into the remote socket on the camera. When i take a photo with the master camera this sets off the remote at the same time. I hope this makes sense.
 
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