Another newbie wants advice

[KingJohn]

Hi, ive always liked taking photos, mostly via a mobile phone these days.

My son just bought a Nikon P900 and posted some zoom shots of birds with it, i was impressed.

So hes got me interested in buying a camera, i ask him to take some general photos, this he does. But they are nothing special at all ?

So why is that camera taking fantastic zoom photos of birds, but my moble phone take better general photos

 

[KingJohn]

Btw, electrical electronics engineer, retired, central England

 

[snerkler]

Hi, ive always liked taking photos, mostly via a mobile phone these days.

My son just bought a Nikon P900 and posted some zoom shots of birds with it, i was impressed.

So hes got me interested in buying a camera, i ask him to take some general photos, this he does. But they are nothing special at all ?

So why is that camera taking fantastic zoom photos of birds, but my moble phone take better general photos

For the most part the key to good photography is light and technique. You can take poor photos and 'special' photos with the most expensive equipment just as you can with a mobile phone. Both the mobile phone and P900 have similar sized image sensors so in theory should be able to take equally as good photos (discounting the zoom) so it will likely come down to settings, technique, composition and light. Also, it will depend on the camera picture settings as to how the camera is processing the file.

 

[KingJohn]

Thanks, but there must be some cameras better than others, should i pick a digital zoom camera, or get better results from a moving lens

Does need to be mostly automatic.

How to upload photos here?

 

[snerkler]

Thanks, but there must be some cameras better than others, should i pick a digital zoom camera, or get better results from a moving lens

Does need to be mostly automatic.

How to upload photos here?

There are of course some cameras that are better than others, but I was just answering your question

You don’t want digital zoom you want optical zoom, although you may be getting confused with an electrical zoom and a manual one?

Without getting into all the semantics generally speaking the bigger the sensor the better the image quality, BUT lens quality also makes a big difference.

 

[woof woof]

I think that the newer smartphone pictures can look very nice indeed on the phone screen or on a tablet but when you look at them on a larger pc screen they maybe don't look so good... and even less so when you look at higher magnification. That's been my experience anyway as my Mrs and her friends take some pictures that look very good indeed on the phone and tablet but I can usually see the limitations and faults very easily when I look at the same pictures on my pc.

Generally the bigger the image sensor and the better the lens the better the technical quality of the picture, assuming that whoever is taking the picture knows what they're doing and of course there's the quality of the light, composition and subject to worry about There will be a point of diminishing returns and if you don't want to print very big pictures and look at them very closely or take pictures of black cats at midnight you wont need the absolute best.

Personally I think that anything from Micro Four Thirds and through APS-C to "Full Frame" is good enough and actually for many people and uses I think that 1" sensor cameras maybe good enough especially if you can resist pixel peeping at high magnification. Pretty much every camera has a full automatic mode but if you get more interested in photography you may soon want to move away from auto and take more creative control. You needn't worry too much about this though as most cameras do the same things. If you're completely new to photography and camera gear you could spend time researching on line, here's a start with lots of "Best thing" type articles and reviews...

https://www.dpreview.com/

And a couple of PS's.
Digital zoom is just cropping the picture in camera so you don't need this except for instant viewing on screen as you can instead take the picture and crop it on your pc. You're much better off with optical zoom though as it allows you to get the subject bigger in the frame without cropping.

To post a picture first upload it to a hosting site and then post the link here or click on "attach files" and select the picture on your pc. Make sure you follow the forum size limit.

 

[realspeed]

I think you are approaching it from the wrong angle. First thing is how much you want to spend on a camera and lens including memory cards etc
Next what type of cameras ie DSLR -Compact- Mirrorless.
Go full frame or crop camera?
Then what make which provides the most lenses for your price when you want to expand
Then go pick say 3/4 out of a list ( https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk) and go to a proper camera shop and actually hold one. Some may have features more suited to what you are happy with.
Do you want new -second hand - or one from the grey market.

Answer these questions and your almost there

 

[woof woof]

I think you are approaching it from the wrong angle. First thing is how much you want to spend on a camera and lens including memory cards etc
Next what type of cameras ie DSLR -Compact- Mirrorless.
Go full frame or crop camera?
Then what make which provides the most lenses for your price when you want to expand
Then go pick say 3/4 out of a list ( https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk) and go to a proper camera shop and actually hold one. Some may have features more suited to what you are happy with.
Do you want new -second hand - or one from the grey market.

Answer these questions and your almost there

Talking about being almost there...

I like to start at the end result and work back from there to decide what kit and indeed what settings I need. For example will I potentially want a big print, will I probably just want a whole picture to view on screen, will I want to crop the picture, what settings will I need to capture the subject... These questions help me to decide what kit and settings I'll need.

 

[realspeed]

You will find there are two main camera suppliers Canon and Nikon. Talk to an owner of either make and each will say theirs is the best, of course Nikon is far better than Canon every day of the week.

Just one more point to make, go up as far as you can in the chosen make price bracket. I ,like many others, started out with the basic model and soon found I wanted more out of the camera than it was designed for. So went up from the Nikon D70s- D200-D300- D800_D810. Of course cameras are updated almost annually so something to be aware of with the latest models appearing to be better than the previous ones

You will see everyone has their own ideas which is correct for them, this is where you are the only person who decides what suits you best

 

[alfbranch]

You will find there are two main camera suppliers Canon and Nikon. Talk to an owner of either make and each will say theirs is the best, of course Nikon is far better than Canon every day of the week.

Just one more point to make, go up as far as you can in the chosen make price bracket. I ,like many others, started out with the basic model and soon found I wanted more out of the camera than it was designed for. So went up from the Nikon D70s- D200-D300- D800_D810. Of course cameras are updated almost annually so something to be aware of with the latest models appearing to be better than the previous ones

You will see everyone has their own ideas which is correct for them, this is where you are the only person who decides what suits you best

What a pile of crap I never owned either brand. There are plenty of great alternatives.

The advice given so far has not been brand centric so why make it.

 

[realspeed]

Alf

One is entitled to ones own opinion . If you happen to own a less popular make then that is your choice. I don't think there is any need to use the language you use to get a point across

 

[ancient_mariner]

Hi, ive always liked taking photos, mostly via a mobile phone these days.

My son just bought a Nikon P900 and posted some zoom shots of birds with it, i was impressed.

So hes got me interested in buying a camera, i ask him to take some general photos, this he does. But they are nothing special at all ?

So why is that camera taking fantastic zoom photos of birds, but my moble phone take better general photos

Not sure anyone has really answered what I think you're asking: why the camera takes great bird pictures but sucks at ordinary scenes?

The P900 has a super-long zoom, and can get in close to birds, filling the frame with an interesting subject, probably also leaving the background a bit blurred. This creates a relatively simple photo of an unusual subject, and can look really arresting - the tech has worked well with an unusual suject that is suited to what it does. Ordinary scenes are often visually complex, frequently lit badly to make good photographs and require very careful composition to make them actually look interesting - taking gear out of the equation, they are much harder to photograph in a way that is engaging, and images of this type often need careful and specific processing in a way that a computer program finds difficult to do well.

Modern cameras are extrememly capable, but none of them actually take pictures (though that's coming closer) and it's down to the skill of the photographer to make a mountain, beach, city etc look fascinating. Your phone may have better processing algorithms or you may have a better eye for an image than he does, hence why phone images may look better to you.

Things to decide before buying a camera:
What do I want to photograph?
How much time am I willing to spend learning the craft of photography?
What will I do with the photographs?
How much am I willing to spend?

 

[woof woof]

Alf

One is entitled to ones own opinion . If you happen to own a less popular make then that is your choice. I don't think there is any need to use the language you use to get a point across

Oh er, a bit back handed there IMO as what's popular will very depending upon the market segment. For example how many Micro Four Thirds cameras did Nikon and Canon sell? and FF wise aren't Sony the biggest sellers? Yes, if your looking for a traditional old style DSLR then Canon and Nikon are the clear market leaders but in every other area they're fighting hard with the other marques and not always coming out on top.

 

[KingJohn]

Hi, spent the day email back and forth with Nikon, then rang them up to clear a few points, then decided to follow the advice given and bought a Nikon D5600 from John Lewis

Well it was cheaper there

Next is the lens, came with a good lens, but explained what i want

You know when you share a photo, its snowing in Coventry or its raining and share the photo.

You can never see the rain ir snow in the air, so i want a lens that will take photos of rain with the strands of rain showing, or the streaks of snow.

So Nikon tell me the 55mm f/1.4 is the one to get, £415 at most except Nikon who want £479

So today camera came, and im impressed wuth it, need to start learning before i buy that lens

AF-P 18-55 VR came with camera

How much i want to spend, depends on how good it is.

The phone photos btw look fine on pc, the 12mp is plenty to blow them up if you want without artifacts

So im off to a good start, now want to take photos in detail of rain?

 

[snerkler]

Hi, spent the day email back and forth with Nikon, then rang them up to clear a few points, then decided to follow the advice given and bought a Nikon D5600 from John Lewis

Well it was cheaper there

Next is the lens, came with a good lens, but explained what i want

You know when you share a photo, its snowing in Coventry or its raining and share the photo.

You can never see the rain ir snow in the air, so i want a lens that will take photos of rain with the strands of rain showing, or the streaks of snow.

So Nikon tell me the 55mm f/1.4 is the one to get, £415 at most except Nikon who want £479

So today camera came, and im impressed wuth it, need to start learning before i buy that lens

AF-P 18-55 VR came with camera

How much i want to spend, depends on how good it is.

The phone photos btw look fine on pc, the 12mp is plenty to blow them up if you want without artifacts

So im off to a good start, now want to take photos in detail of rain?

Any lens and/or camera can take photos of rain and snow, even a mobile phone, it's all about getting the settings and focus right.

 

[Fuji Dave]

Hi, ive always liked taking photos, mostly via a mobile phone these days.

My son just bought a Nikon P900 and posted some zoom shots of birds with it, i was impressed.

So hes got me interested in buying a camera, i ask him to take some general photos, this he does. But they are nothing special at all ?

So why is that camera taking fantastic zoom photos of birds, but my moble phone take better general photos

There are a lot of very good cameras on the market, and some can be set to Full Auto mode. Fuji do the X-T20 great camera imo, or the New X-T30 which comes out next month but have a look around and go to the shops and hold the camera to see what it`s like in your hand.

 

[ancient_mariner]

So Nikon tell me the 55mm f/1.4 is the one to get, £415 at most except Nikon who want £479

That will be a fine lens, but you'd probably get results you'd like just as much with the 35mm f1.8 DX for <£180, and it will be easier to use.

 

[soupdragon]

Hi, spent the day email back and forth with Nikon, then rang them up to clear a few points, then decided to follow the advice given and bought a Nikon D5600 from John Lewis

Well it was cheaper there

Next is the lens, came with a good lens, but explained what i want

You know when you share a photo, its snowing in Coventry or its raining and share the photo.

You can never see the rain ir snow in the air, so i want a lens that will take photos of rain with the strands of rain showing, or the streaks of snow.

So Nikon tell me the 55mm f/1.4 is the one to get, £415 at most except Nikon who want £479

So today camera came, and im impressed wuth it, need to start learning before i buy that lens

AF-P 18-55 VR came with camera

How much i want to spend, depends on how good it is.

The phone photos btw look fine on pc, the 12mp is plenty to blow them up if you want without artifacts

So im off to a good start, now want to take photos in detail of rain?

Use the flash, that'll highlight snow for sure.

 

[KingJohn]

Think im going to buy one of those flash attachments much more power

 

[KingJohn]

Ha ha, enjoying this new hobby, skys the limit

 

[KingJohn]

That will be a fine lens, but you'd probably get results you'd like just as much with the 35mm f1.8 DX for <£180, and it will be easier to use.

But would the 1.4 be twice as good?

 

[ancient_mariner]

But would the 1.4 be twice as good?

In the hands of someone who didn't know how to use it it might be slightly less good than the 35mm f1.8, because it will be heavier, more susceptible to camera shake and more likely to miss-focus is used wide open. Apart from very specific applications you would probably not even notice any difference, othe than the 55mm would have a slightly narrower field of view on that camera than would be easy for general use.

 

[rick448]

But would the 1.4 be twice as good?

Depends what you are using it for, the increase in low light performance between 1.4 and 1.8 isn't much with the way ISO can compensate nowadays, i guess the most important factor will be the focal length. I have no idea how much image quality or AF speed differs as I've no experience with Nikon, I used to use Canon, and now use a rubbish and unpopular Fuji type thing

 

[ancient_mariner]

Depends what you are using it for, the increase in low light performance between 1.4 and 1.8 isn't much with the way ISO can compensate nowadays, i guess the most important factor will be the focal length. I have no idea how much image quality or AF speed differs as I've no experience with Nikon, I used to use Canon, and now use a rubbish and unpopular Fuji type thing

The D5600 is a very competent second teir entry-level camera. Good AF, great sensor, rear touchscreen IIRC.

Right, a quick bit of research tells me Nikon don't make a 55 f1.4, so I'm going to guess they suggested the 50 f1.4G, which should sell over here for around £400 (and IMO is overpriced by about 35%). They also make a 58 f1.4 which is a specalised professional lens selling for est. £1600-£2000.

No reason you shouldn't have the sharpest lens if that's what you need, but if you're willing to spend that much then buy a Sigma 35mm or 50mm ART lens instead, which is a much crisper optic than the nikon.

FWIW I shoot Nikon, I've owned and returned the 50mm 1.8G lens, and currently use the older 50 f1.8 AFD (won't work on an entry level camera). In your situation I would buy the 35mm f1.8DX lens, because they are a high quality optic that will give a similar field of view to a 'standard' lens on a crop camera like the D5600. Keep the money you saved to replace the kit lens with a higher quality zoom later.

Yet a little more research - it might be a 55mm f2.8 MACRO lens, but probably not.

 

[scott199]

What do you guys think about the 17-55dx 2.8 as a starter for this guy, gets good reviews, pro type build and 400/450 used, I’ve never used one but maybe an idea as a good all round beginner lens with a little of everything ?

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'd stay kit zoom + 35 f1.8 prime until he discovered what he wanted to more of - he already owns a kit zoom, and the 17-55 won't make a huge difference yet.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Use the flash, that'll highlight snow for sure.

Hmm is that a good idea? I mean we all know what our headlights do to the snow, we'll Yeah lights it up but a straight on flash may not be the best ansver if you want more in the picture + it will prevent you from getting the streaks wanted. For those slow shutterspeeds are needed. So a tripod may come in handy.
Tip, backlit rain looks awesome.

 

[Andy Into The Wild]

I'd stay kit zoom + 35 f1.5 prime...

Ooh I didn't know nikon made an f1.5!

Hmm is that a good idea? I mean we all know what our headlights do to the snow, we'll Yeah lights it up but a straight on flash may not be the best ansver if you want more in the picture + it will prevent you from getting the streaks wanted. For those slow shutterspeeds are needed. So a tripod may come in handy.
Tip, backlit rain looks awesome.

Wouldnt you want a fast shutter speed to freeze the motion? So a flash would be helpful?

 

[Ian W]

I had the kit zoom and added the 35mm 1.8G when I had my Nikon. Best thing I did was sell both and get a Sigma 17-50mm f2.8. Thing never left my camera after that until I sold it.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Ooh I didn't know nikon made an f1.5!

 

[Andy Into The Wild]

Just joshing

I had the kit zoom and added the 35mm 1.8G when I had my Nikon. Best thing I did was sell both and get a Sigma 17-50mm f2.8. Thing never left my camera after that until I sold it.

Yes, for the short time I had a Nikon DX camera, I really liked the Sigma 17-50 f2.8!

 

[ancient_mariner]

Fair enough. One of the first lens upgrades I did with my crop sony outfit was to pick up the Zeiss 16-80, which was almost prime-sharp. OTOH the Nikon kit lens has a good reputation.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Ooh I didn't know nikon made an f1.5!

Wouldnt you want a fast shutter speed to freeze the motion? So a flash would be helpful?

If you want streaks of snow/ rain you dont want to freeze the motion but need contrast between the snow/rain and the background
Trying to freeze it with an on camera flash will highlight snow and posibly blind the camera to evrything else as the headlights on a car.
If using a flash backlighting is a much better option than on camera flash

Hi, spent the day email back and forth with Nikon, then rang them up to clear a few points, then decided to follow the advice given and bought a Nikon D5600 from John Lewis

Well it was cheaper there

Next is the lens, came with a good lens, but explained what i want

You know when you share a photo, its snowing in Coventry or its raining and share the photo.

You can never see the rain ir snow in the air, so i want a lens that will take photos of rain with the strands of rain showing, or the streaks of snow.

So Nikon tell me the 55mm f/1.4 is the one to get, £415 at most except Nikon who want £479

So today camera came, and im impressed wuth it, need to start learning before i buy that lens

AF-P 18-55 VR came with camera

How much i want to spend, depends on how good it is.

The phone photos btw look fine on pc, the 12mp is plenty to blow them up if you want without artifacts

So im off to a good start, now want to take photos in detail of rain?

 

[ancient_mariner]

I've done a bit of work trying to take pictures of heavy rain in the past, and I don't believe that ideal results can be had doing it as a 'straight shot'.

Examples:
This was shot using a 210mm lens at f5 (on a Sony APS-C camera) to attempt to keep a thin slice of the heavy rain sharp, using a shutter speed that would give the drops length. While the drops are visible, they certainly aren't spectacular.


This was shot a couple of years later from the same window in torrential rain using an 85mm lens at f1.7. While the lighting was a little better, it was not ideal in bringing out the raindrops.


And this was taken using the Sony kit lens (18-55) during some incredibly heavy rain in Canada.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I've had much better success adding rain during processing afterwards, particularly where the sky I'm using as a backdrop is dark and it suits the mood.


This is far from ideal if you want to be 'authentic'.

I think that what is required is a dark background and a long, narrow continuous light source - that could be the sun shining through a gap, or it could be artificial - that illuminates falling rain from the side to make it stand out. Use of more 'clarity' control will also help pick out individual particles. This would apply similarly to snow as well as rain.

*edit* my photos look a bit sucky because I've had to compress them a lot to get them small enough to upload.

 

[KingJohn]

Thank you all, much appreciated. Would you believe its not rained a bit in days and im not going to see what can be done.

Tonight i decided to get the nfc and wifi working, what a joke this is, never had so much problems. I have many health test equipment in the home, for example i take my blood pressure 3 times on an omron and it uploads the data to an android app, can view average bp etc. I also use a blood sugar level meter that uses nfc to upload its data.
So i know a bit about these things, well i thought I did until i got this camera, bloody terrible. In the end Nikon tell me to unpair the bluetooth and go from there.

Didnt get it working, and now bluetooth switch off on camera and nothing there to switch it on like you normally do.

Yes i had already forgotten i needed to use the silly app to setup pairing. Took an hour to get it working again.

Point is, to be able to take a photo usibg remote control it needs wifi connection whike using the phones app, so i gave up on that and will buy a romote control.

Im a electronics junky, also class a radio ham, so know a bit, but it got me foxed.

Gave up, now using WD my passport that automatically uploads the images to its ssd

Back to taking photos, im learning fast, which i do with things like this, and helped with people like yourself, guess im looking fir short cuts rather than rtfm

So took some macro shots tonight also, yep lens isnt good on this but did ok, i have some tubes on the way from fleabay just to get me intrested, have seen some nice lenses that also have led lights.

I want everything for this camera, so apart from the lens research im looking at flash units, already got a nice bag, several high power 1600mah batteries and a new fancy charger. So any recommendations on accessories welcome.

Things you do before you die, apparently called a bucket list?

Thanks, just a word on cost, if its woth it i dont have a limit, 18k lens? No problem if it dud outrageous things.

Im getting more and more people tell me the cheaper f/1.8 lens is just as good, and under £200 so if the f/1.4 is £415 why? Must be twice as good as my kit lens or no point in buying it.

Come on rain, then i can move on to telephoto and zoom lenses

 

[KingJohn]

Even rotten appples are interesting now

 

[ancient_mariner]

Im getting more and more people tell me the cheaper f/1.8 lens is just as good, and under £200 so if the f/1.4 is £415 why? Must be twice as good as my kit lens or no point in buying it.

It's a bit like putting sticky race tyres on a Ford Mondeo to drive up the motorway - in the right place (the track) they will make a difference, but the rest of the time not so much. The f1.4 lens will make a difference if you're shooting in very dim conditions or if you want to isolate a subject and and throw the background out of focus (small aperture - bigger f number = greater depth of field of focus). But as said already, there's not much difference between f1.8 and f1.4 in terms of performance, but it's more expensive to make an f1.4 lens.

 

[KingJohn]

So would you say its worth me buying the 1.8 and get better performance over my 18 to 55 kit lens

Buy =

More great pictures today, but fleabay tube macro lens came total junk, it got stuck, took some shoving to get it off, well you get what you pay for £10 not a lot, but even when on camera complained and not compatable, use in manual and bad pictures, back in the box going back

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'd suggest buying the 35 1.8 and putting the money saved over the 50 1.4 into some kind of learning about how great images are created. That could be a video course, books, tuition or travel to great locations or places that have things you really want to take pictures of.

Also acquire some image processing software (Adobe Lightroom, On1 photo Raw, DXO Photolab etc).