1. Withers

    Withers

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    Hello all .... bit of a newbie so hope this hadn’t been done already .....

    As title really .... been hanging my nose over one of these for a while. Does anyone have one, or have any opinions or experiences to share? Thanks all.
     
  2. jakeblu

    jakeblu

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    There's a thread here https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/1dx2-vs-5dsr.678145/#post-8168316 where the 5DSR is discussed. Give you something to do while waiting a reply :)
     
  3. Withers

    Withers

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    Thanks for the link Steve. An interesting read and a lively debate. I would be using it for portrait work (mostly horses and dogs, but some humans too), landscapes, architecture (especially interiors and mostly historic buildings) and other static or slow moving subjects, but not for sports action etc, i do some commission portrait work - mainly horses and dogs - and am always surprised when horse owners want pictures of their pride and joy printed to extra large sizes, frequently 30x20 or bigger. Horses are usually shot hand held because they don’t keep still, but architecture etc would be tripod mounted.

    I already own a 5D III and a range of canon lenses, both primes and zooms so the new body would complement that. As a middle aged (well .... getting on a bit if I’m honest ..... !) woman, I don’t want anything more bulky. A friend has been trying to get me to go medium format - she has a Pentax MF which is excellent - but it’s too physically big for me to carry about and handle, as well as being even more expensive and needing a whole new set of lenses. Hence me considering the 5DSR.

    Might have to crack open the piggy bank and count my pennies ..... :)
     
  4. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    I've got one and ir's excellent at what it does but don't imagine it being a great allrounder because it isn't. If you're into landscapes or studio portraits then it's in its element but you should only consider it if you're happy to limit yourself to iso100-400...anything above that and there are better options. Also bear in mind that it needs top notch lenses to get the advantage of the high reolution.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  5. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    Agree, but while there are some better all-rounders available now, compared to full-frame DSLRs of only a couple of generations ago the 5DSR can more than hold its own ;)

    Bob, maybe you can answer this question, since I think you have both a 5DSR and Pentax 645? When you're able to max out image quality on both systems, how would 30in prints compare under close scrutiny? It's not something I've been able to do side by side, but from what I've seen there's very little in it given that digital medium-format is only 1.2x (crop factor*) larger than full-frame. And as an all-rounder, the 5DSR would win hands-down.

    There's another consideration though, when working professionally with equestrian - ie, well-heeled clients. A medium-format camera simply looks the part (and nothing like the owner's regular DSLR) so is often the favoured weapon ;) One guy on here uses a Hasselblad X1D, particularly because it's leaf-shuttered lenses offer a big advantage with flash - potentially a killer combo.

    *equates to around 70% larger total image area, or roughly 50% bigger when cropped to 3x2 aspect ratio.
     
  6. soupdragon

    soupdragon

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    I'm going out on a limb here to say it's the best Canon camera I've ever owned.
    I went from that to a 1dx2 but often wonder if that was a wise decision.
     
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  7. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    In terms of bodies then the Pentax sensor is superior (it's 1.25x larger.....55mm against 44mm diagonal). The downside to the Pentax is the lens availability. The newer DA/D-FA lenses are superb (and obscenely expensive) but the sensor is limited by some of the older 'legacy' lenses (legacy although still in production). IMO, the 5DSR does wide and long better than the Pentax but the middle of the focal length range is the 645Z's forte. Whichever one you take out for the day is inevitably the wrong one.
     
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  8. Withers

    Withers

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    That’s interesting. Financially, I’m not going MF, especially not Hasselblad :eek: ..... although it would be nice if I ever win the lottery.

    I find hand holding a camera is better for equestrian subjects, simply because they tend to move around and it’s best if you can move with them. As such a MF is just too clunky. However there is an equestrian photographer whose work I greatly admire who I know uses Hasselblads and gets fabulous results, so certainly worth considering. (I wonder if he’s the guy you refer to). I tend to style myself as a keen amateur and my 5D III works well in that context. My piggy bank is starting to look ever more threatened ....
     
  9. John Elliott

    John Elliott

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    I have one as well, mostly still life but occasionally I go out with it and it's great to be able to crop in when I haven't been able to get close enough to the subject.
     
  10. GTG

    GTG Suspended / Banned

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    Not owned one but one consideration is file size and editing. I had a 36mp camera and it really started to get tedious because everything was slower and harder for the PC to deal with.
    Large prints and cropping are the obvious strengths of the 5dsr IMO. You can crop a file dramatically and it still looks like a decent resolution camera took it.
    And large poster size prints should be possible that look stunning.
    You have to need or really want its strengths or its the wrong camera I think and will got on your nerves.
     
  11. Paul Cronin

    Paul Cronin

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    I have the Canon 5Ds and while its an excellent camera to me, as Canon Bob states, anything over ISO 400 is starting to introduce noise. That said I have the 10-400mk2 and the 24-70 F2.8 and they are extremely sharp and can be cropped severely and still produce excellent images.
    Also, you may need to upgrade your computer and potentially software if you are using an older version of PS or Lightroom and memory cards. Its produces big files.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  12. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    I have one upgraded from 5D3, for general photos I use mRAW and for landscape or serious work I use full RAW. My complaint is the buffer and 5fps is low but other than that it's perfect.
     
  13. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    Perhaps have a look at the 5D iv and see what you think. By the sounds of things it's probably got better low light performance... and perhaps dynamic exposure range too? Also, in most photographs, will people really notice any difference in the number of MP between a 5d IV and a 5DS R? This is just a suggestion as this is what I'd be asking myself if I were in the market to change to one of these two cameras, so do some careful research and choose wisely before taking the plunge. (y)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  14. Withers

    Withers

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    Good advice. I haven’t looked at the 5DIV if I’m honest. I already have a 5D III which I’m keeping as it’s an excellent bit of kit, and a 6D which is brilliant in low light. The new camera will be an addition to the stable, and will be used mostly for portrait and architectural work. I’m finding people wanting large prints and canvases - 30x20 and larger!! - which for an average horse is life size or bigger (don’t ask me why - I have no idea!!). For the architectural stuff, I’m looking for the best level of detail possible, but I’ll certainly have a look at the IV as well before the piggy bank meets its end.
     
  15. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    Have you considered a Sony A7RIII and adapting your canon glass?
    You can use its pixel shift feature for architecture to get an impressive amount of detail :D

    Just an "out of the box idea" :)
     
  16. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    You haven't mentioned which lenses you'll be using other than to say that you already have "a range of canon lenses, both primes and zooms". I just want to make you aware that potential print size is based on the system resolution (body and lens) and not simply down to the sensor's resolution. I doubt that there is a zoom lens that can get near the 50Mp of the 5DSR and very few primes likewise. If you're likely to need anything above iso400 then you're going backwatds with the usable resolution (for printing purposes) and will very quickly pass the 5DMkIV going the other way. The maths are much more complicated but it really does need some research and analysis to determine which option would give you the biggest print size potential.

    Bob
     
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  17. Withers

    Withers

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    That's an interesting point Bob. Thank you. For the horses I only shoot in good light and at the lowest possible ISO - never more that 200 max - and at fairly high shutter speeds to freeze any motion there is. The animals are generally being asked to stand still and pose, but they are animals at the end of the day, so there's always a blink, or the twitch of an ear. For the architectural and landscape stuff, the subjects usually stand still ..... :) This isn't sports shooting of animals in action - jumping or whatever..... If the light won't take the settings to get decent shots, then we wait for another day, as i always shoot in natural light. I'm currently using the 5DIII for this work. However, your comments beg a question. If there are few bits of Canon glass - whether zoom or prime - which are up to the sensor performance of the 5DSR, then why bother making it (the camera) in the first place? Are Canon simply providing yet more "bling" or are they planning to upgrade their lens range to match at some point. Also - how many people, looking at a print with the naked eye, can discern the microscopic differences in the level of rendered detail when comparing prints of a set size from either camera? (which, I suppose, negates my argument to buy the camera in the first place - should I just stick with what I've got?)

    If I buy this thing, which lens would you use for my application? (If I don't have it, I can always trade some of my old stuff to get it at some point). I currently use either a 24-105 zoom, or a 85mm prime, or a 16-35 for the architectural and landscape stuff.
     
  18. SFTPhotography

    SFTPhotography Top Cat

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    I am a nikon user but if I wasn't I'd have a 5dsr in a heart beat.
     
  19. soupdragon

    soupdragon

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    The signal noise from a 5dsr is no worse than the 7d2 which in it's own right is fairly decent.
     
  20. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    Not more bling, it was answering a request for a body without an anti-aliasing filter. Something has to lead the technology and for years we had lenses that could out-resolve sensors and now we have a sensor that can out-resolve the lenses. It's worth remembering that it's not only Canon who make lenses to fit this body. Carl Zeiss' Otis lenses offer incredible resolution (and so they should at their price).

    Not knowing your style makes it difficult to offer suggestions. A 70-200/2.8 IS MkII will do the job but I'm sure that the final result will be indistinguishable from that shot with the 5DMkIII. A 300/2.8 MkII or 200/2 shooting at f/5.6 will probably make use of some of the increase in resolution (if it is indeed needed). I bought mine to make better use of some Carl Zeiss lenses that I own...but that only feeds the nerd in me, the 22Mp of the 1DxMkII is the better option for most of the things I shoot.

    Again, I'm not trying to put you off getting the 5DSR, it's superb...but in a fairly narrow spectrum whilst the 5DMkIV is very good in a wider spectrum.

    Bob
     
  21. Withers

    Withers

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    Ok ... so, put simply - camera + sensor = level of detail rendered in the final image. Therefore is it a reasonable to conclude that, if we have hitherto had lenses which outperformed the sensors, those lenses were, in effect, being held back by the sensor. We now have a sensor which can outperform the lenses, so whichever bit of glass one screws onto the front of said sensor will be provided with the scope and facility to perform at its absolute best, and thus be able to offer better detail rendition with the 5DSR sensor than they would with a smaller one. So, decent lens x + 5DIII = decent image: whereas - decent lens x + 5DSR = better than decent image (all other things being equal). Or am overthinking that?

    An interesting and educational discussion anyhow ........ (y)

    In any case, i've now looked up the Zeiss lenses and have a nasty dose of lens lust on top of my camera lust, which isn't good!!! My poor piggy bank ....... :eek: (goes off to look up mortgage rates .............. )
     
  22. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    That model holds up to the point where the lens' resolution reaches its limit (before it achives the sensor's resolution......(simply put_

    Be aware that the Zeiss lenses are manual focus. Your manual focus ability can be perfect or less than perfect (but not better than perfect) so you can attain the system's limit or fall short but not surpass it.

    Bob
     
  23. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    Almost, but overlaying everything is your technique, which must be immaculate - ie perfect focus and high shutter speeds. And in the perception of sharpness, the quality of the light has a big impact too, eg when it's overcast, even though brightness my be quite high, images will look dull and flat compared to direct sun.

    And I disagree that sensors now out-perform lenses. Lens resolution is not like sensor resolution that obviously has a hard limit dictated by the pixel count. What we call 'sharpness' is a combination of resolution (fineness of detail) and contrast (how clearly those details are shown) and a fact of optical physics is that as resolution goes up, so contrast goes down - and it's contrast that contributes most to our visual perception of sharpness*.

    It's not true that sensors out-resolve lenses, and quite modest lenses are often capable of very high resolution, it's just that as contrast drops it becomes increasingly hard to see very fine detail clearly. Better lenses have higher contrast (better 'MTF' performance) but there are no hard limits, so where do you draw the line? If you get a 5DSR, there will be an increase in micro-detail even with your current lenses, thanks to a) twice the pixel count, and b) no AA filter (both 5D3 and 5D4 have AA filters). You will notice it on max magnification during post-processing, though whether your clients will notice it without looking very closely at large prints, is another question. And even then, how much does it matter? If you view an enlargement from normal distance, ie a 30in print from about 4ft, nobody will be able to detect the extra level of detail.

    What I think this boils down to is your personal judgement. In other words, side by side comparisons in best conditions and at optimum apertures of, say, your 5D3 and 24-105L vs 5DSR with 24-105L and a 24-70/2.8 Mk2, then make 30in prints.

    *This is the main reason why larger sensors produce sharper images, because the lens is working at a lower resolution and therefore delivering higher contrast.

    Edit: try a Sigma 85/1.4 Art too ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  24. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    Just to put your mind at rest, Canon actually have a list of lenses they recommend people use to get the best out of their 5DS R. I'm sure you will find this if you do an internet search or tour the Canon website for the 5DS R and look for the link to the lens list. I would think that the 5D iv would also benefit from the use of those lenses, but your piggy bank may squeal wee wee wee all the way home as a result! Sadly, my piggy bank died of malnutrition shortly after I bought my 6D and a couple of L lenses and feeding my long-established habit of collecting and using old film cameras. So do leave a bit of podge on the poor little chap, you only miss what you've got when it's gone! ;)
     
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  25. HoppyUK

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    Nikon certainly produced a list of recommended lenses after the D800 launch, and it was quite extensive with some 15-odd lenses IIRC. Have Canon ever done one?
     
  26. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    Not for the Nikon D800, as far as I'm aware! ;) Yes, they've done a list for the 5DS & 5DS R, that's why I mentioned it in the post you quoted... try to keep up at the back there, Richard. ;) :D Don't worry, I've had a long day too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  27. HoppyUK

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    Nikon D800/810/850 list is on the bottom of this page, and it's even more extensive than I recalled http://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/camera-accessories/nikon-d800-accessories/d800-lens-sets.html

    And yes, there is also a list from Canon for the 5DSR, including 36 lenses with this quote from SLR Lounge: It would seem... that the general worry about lenses resolving on newer high-resolution sensors is mostly misplaced. Though TBH, I wouldn't put some of those lenses on a 5DSR and expect too much at extremes of the aperture range ;) https://www.slrlounge.com/canon-announces-new-list-of-recommended-lenses-for-new-5ds/
     
  28. Nostromo

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    Just my 2 pence worth, would it be a good idea to hire the camera first (if anyone does hire it out), then see if it will do all you want. If would be a large investment to find out that it's not really all you hoped for.
     
  29. HoppyUK

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    (y)

    Or if the OP can find a volunteer TP member with a 5DSR then maybe meet for a shoot-out - and post the results on here :) Pretty sure some members would be up for that though we don't know the OP's location (unfortunately our Canon Bob is in France). I would be, but the Canon 5DSR I had was on loan.

    Or try Lenses For Hire, run by StewartR who is a well known member on here. They also rent cameras.
    http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/search
     
  30. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    It's not unfortunate Richard, he rather likes it here. :)
     
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  31. Withers

    Withers

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    Thanks for posting this Richard. Really interesting. Looking through it, I've pretty much got it covered I think (if I sneakily include my better half's collection of primes .... :)). I don't mean I own all the lenses on the list (eek!) but I do have a good range of them. The only one which isn't there is my "everyday" lens - the one I use most - which is a 24-105 F4L IS USM. I use this a lot for portrait work and the flexibility of the short zoom really helps when photographing horses. Might look at alternatives to that going forward, or use the 85mm prime. so am covered for everything from 16mm - 400mm, with the 24-105 bridging the gap at the bottom end.
     
  32. cymruchris

    cymruchris

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    The 5dsr is currently around £1700 shipped from Panamoz - a very good price (and not wanting to start a grey import debate - just a good price that the OP can consider on its own merits). I've often wondered what results I'd get with one compared to my 1dx2. (£3400 on Wex)

    http://panamoz.com/canon-eos-5dsr-dslr-camera-body-only.htmlv
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  33. Withers

    Withers

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    Just popped back in to say thank you to everyone for this very informative discussion. The deal has now been done and the camera is in hand .... pics and further comments to follow when I've had a chance to take it for a walk .... :):banana::canon:
     
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  34. Meeten

    Meeten

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    Looking forward to seeing some results....
     

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