Apple killing Iphones with latest software update - if you've had it repaired somewhere else

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cymruchris

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I've had a look around and can't see a thread on it yet - but have seen that since the current iOS update on the Apple Iphone, if you've had any repair work done to the phone such as a new screen or new home button that hasn't been done by Apple themselves, the phone will recognise and instantly turn into a worthless brick with no (apparently) chance of recovery. I do own an Iphone, and I am guessing at some point it'll need a repair - and I don't fancy paying Apple prices for some of the simpler jobs. In effect I'm trapped into returning the phone and paying exhorbirant prices rather than a third party supplier.

It now appears that a class action is developing under the guise of criminal damage, where Apple has willfully damaged your Iphone by turning it into a brick. Here's a link for the details:

http://www.theguardian.com/business...lawyers-error-53-codes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

What do you think? Apple being over dominating and controlling as usual?
 
I saw this on the news yesterday.

It won't affect me btw........I don't have a mobile at all! :cool:

Originally I likened it to new cars years ago, which had to be serviced via main dealers to keep the warranty in order. It was unfair & now doesn't apply.

After thinking about it again, it's worse than that.

Imagine you HAVE to take your motor to a main dealer for repair, but they find out you've had some work done by yourself/another mechanic ............ so immobilise it completely & it's unusable.

I can see apple having to change.
 
I agree - I think Apple will 'move' their position on this... Not sure how long it'll take - or what they'll do - and whether existing 'bricks' can be recovered will be interesting to see.
 
OldCarlos said:
I saw this on the news yesterday.

It won't affect me btw........I don't have a mobile at all! :cool:

Originally I likened it to new cars years ago, which had to be serviced via main dealers to keep the warranty in order. It was unfair & now doesn't apply.

After thinking about it again, it's worse than that.

Imagine you HAVE to take your motor to a main dealer for repair, but they find out you've had some work done by yourself/another mechanic ............ so immobilise it completely & it's unusable.

I can see apple having to change.
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I agree, like the car, as long as the repairer is VAT registered and using reputable parts, anyone can make the repairs, especially where a warranty is involved. Surely what Apple are doing is illegal.
 
If they're stopping people just changing the Touch ID sensor so stolen phones can be wiped and reused then I can see their point. There does need to be some kind of process for owners that have had legit repairs to have them made ok though.
 
The article doesn't mention 'any' repair, Apple specifically stated those phones that have only had the Touch ID/home button replaced would be locked. Those items allow the fingerprint security to function so I'd assume the measure is to prevent people trying to bypass that.

As usual with any Apple related article there are knee jerk reactions. When are the pitch forks coming out? ;0).
 
stevelmx5 said:
The article doesn't mention 'any' repair, Apple specifically stated those phones that have only had the Touch ID/home button replaced would be locked. Those items allow the fingerprint security to function so I'd assume the measure is to prevent people trying to bypass that.

As usual with any Apple related article there are knee jerk reactions. When are the pitch forks coming out? ;0).
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Exactly, and considering it is an integral part of the authentication for Apple Pay I would hope there is a bit more to it then being presented. I started to wonder how software can detect glass, but this has nothing to do with that.

Out of genuine interest. Can anyone just repair your pdq machine and are you still PCI compliant?
 
No different to printers not working with third party inks or cameras that require batteries made by the original manufcturer.

Can see more companies tying to protect profits if the global economic crisis gets worse, still a s***ty trick though
 
So does nobody thinks that as it is part of a security system linked to making payments either through nfc or direct with online shops; that the hardware should be part of an end to end secured and encrypted chain? I would want to be assured what's in my device where it is the key component to unlock my payment tokens. Approved and accredited providers for me only please. I think this is very different than a cracked screen.
 
If it is a theft deterrent, to stop stolen phones having the touch ID sensor bypassed, I think it is a good idea, especially if it makes the phones less attractive to thieves.
 
dejongj said:
So does nobody thinks that as it is part of a security system linked to making payments either through nfc or direct with online shops; that the hardware should be part of an end to end secured and encrypted chain? I would want to be assured what's in my device where it is the key component to unlock my payment tokens. Approved and accredited providers for me only please. I think this is very different than a cracked screen.
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Of course not! It's another excuse for those that hate Apple to have a dig.
 
I'm not an iPhone user, but I fail to see a problem here.
The article only mentions third party replacement of the Touch ID sensor....A rather important security feature as I understand it, when it comes to things like Apple Pay?
If a third party repairer wonks it up, and users start getting "hacked" they'll be the first to start wailing that Apple's security features aren't good enough.
When you take on a device with software of such a proprietary nature, you take on any niggles that might come with it Hell, it's probably even written somewhere in a Ts & Cs somewhere to that effect.....let's face it, no one reads them!
 
viv1969 said:
I'm not an iPhone user, but I fail to see a problem here.
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Notification in the upgrade software notes that this is now a feature and what the results would be if installed? Couldn't see it in the T&C's
 
I hate the way you are forced to update the software, mine hassled me for weeks before I eventually gave up and just did it
 
tijuana taxi said:
Can see more companies tying to protect profits if the global economic crisis gets worse, still a s***ty trick though
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I can't see Apple losing sleep over lost profits for the rare occasions a home button fails. If they were, I doubt we'd see so many outlets offering screen replacements.

It's a security control measure.
 
Sarg0r said:
I hate the way you are forced to update the software, mine hassled me for weeks before I eventually gave up and just did it
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You might own the device, but you don't own the operating system. You are merely permitted to use it. It's Apple's to update.
 
dejongj said:
So does nobody thinks that as it is part of a security system linked to making payments either through nfc or direct with online shops; that the hardware should be part of an end to end secured and encrypted chain? I would want to be assured what's in my device where it is the key component to unlock my payment tokens. Approved and accredited providers for me only please. I think this is very different than a cracked screen.
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Quite a lot of people buy mobile phones for making phone calls or internet access, not as mobile payment solutions. I would suggest that if apple are concerned, they could disable the payment features, not the entire device.

There has been evidence of phones where screen replacement, or even unrepaired impact damage (because it seems like everyone except me drops their phone every other day) causing this error. It shouldn't. Further, they (apple) should have warned that repairs by parties other than apple would render the phone a brick following future OS upgrades, prior to purchase.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Quite a lot of people buy mobile phones for making phone calls or internet access, not as mobile payment solutions. I would suggest that if apple are concerned, they could disable the payment features, not the entire device.

There has been evidence of phones where screen replacement, or even unrepaired impact damage (because it seems like everyone except me drops their phone every other day) causing this error. It shouldn't. Further, they (apple) should have warned that repairs by parties other than apple would render the phone a brick following future OS upgrades, prior to purchase.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest that an Apple device is possibly not for them.
Apple's rather heavy handed control over their devices and features is hardly a new thing and should be considered when making the choice.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Quite a lot of people buy mobile phones for making phone calls or internet access, not as mobile payment solutions. I would suggest that if apple are concerned, they could disable the payment features, not the entire device.

There has been evidence of phones where screen replacement, or even unrepaired impact damage (because it seems like everyone except me drops their phone every other day) causing this error. It shouldn't. Further, they (apple) should have warned that repairs by parties other than apple would render the phone a brick following future OS upgrades, prior to purchase.
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I would suggest that if you have a £700-1000 phone and done use one of the key features maybe you've got the wrong phone. Not withstanding that I'm all up for choice. Besides payment this is a key component in unlocking your phone and any stored passwords and in app data. So the impact is far reaching when that chain gets compromised.

It wouldn't come into my mind to have a key security component replaced by an unauthorised repair centre. Whilst I take your point, and not having read the full T&c myself, I doubt that people would read that anyway. The best place that warning should come from is those trustworthy cheap mobile phone repairers. They should make people sign a disclaimer to understand what the impact is.
 
I decided last year that my current iPhone will be my last one, mainly due to things like this.
There are going to be a stupid amount of good Chinese manufacturers pushing phones onto the market this year ... Most will have iPhone beating specs.
When I bought my first iPhone & IPad they were light years ahead of anything else and got me hooked, but not any more! I have already switched the iPad to an android model and the iPhone is next.
 
Personally I think the whole security excuse is just that.....an excuse.

Now I don't profess to know exactly how the touch sensor works, but surely it is just that, a sensor. A bit of hardware that scans your finger print. That information is surely processed by the CPU in the phone and compared to data held in the memory.

Surely to circumvent "security" you would need to replace more than just the sensor??
 
viv1969 said:
I'd suggest that an Apple device is possibly not for them.
Apple's rather heavy handed control over their devices and features is hardly a new thing and should be considered when making the choice.
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Quite, and it's why I won't have anything to do with them, but lots of people buy on "oooh! new shiny iphone! Must have!" rather than an analysis of how apple is an evil empire intent on locking down every part of its products or consideration of some fingerprint ID system that they never intend to use and the consequences of its failure.

I have friends that do this, they aren't interested in my nerdy reasons for disliking the whole apple ethos.
 
Sarg0r said:
I hate the way you are forced to update the software, mine hassled me for weeks before I eventually gave up and just did it
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The only real issue with this is with the app developers. Things like sky sports, bbc iplayer etc constantly update, which at times require the latest OS. This of course isn't valid for older devices thus rendering them unusable for those apps, so you end up with an old device, unable to run many apps, which for an ipad renders it usable as a browser or media device only.

Thats one of the reasons I went away from Apple. The other was I am on an O2 contract who charge £5 a month more for the privilege of having an iphone, which seemed silly as it was 30% of my costs (£11 contract now, was £16)
 
So....the iPhone home button is notorious for being one of the things to go wrong..
Think of all the money apple will make now.
 
srichards said:
If they're stopping people just changing the Touch ID sensor so stolen phones can be wiped and reused then I can see their point. There does need to be some kind of process for owners that have had legit repairs to have them made ok though.
Click to expand...

i can see where they're coming from if it is only the touch id being replaced which triggers the block. however as some said it may have been better to disable the feature rather than the whole device.

dejongj said:
Can anyone just repair your pdq machine and are you still PCI compliant?
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cant comment for every solution but the banks normally own and control the leasing of the hardware so it's theirs to arrange replacement.

edit: although to be slightly pedantic, you do not need to be PCI compliant to have a card terminal.

viv1969 said:
You might own the device, but you don't own the operating system. You are merely permitted to use it. It's Apple's to update.
Click to expand...

that and normally the updates fix fairly important security issues so generally it's worth doing updates (on all platforms).
 
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Martyn... said:
If it is a theft deterrent, to stop stolen phones having the touch ID sensor bypassed, I think it is a good idea, especially if it makes the phones less attractive to thieves.
Click to expand...

If a phone gets stolen they can brick it with the IMEI code. This is just to stop you getting unauthorised repairs. Apparently even replacing the cable between the button and the board can result in the Error 53. If someone wanted to install a compromised button that stole your credentials, they'd need more than just the hardware installed, they'd need to install software that then sent that data somewhere else, and since you can't side-load apps onto an iPhone, then there's no risk is there?
 
Byker28i said:
The only real issue with this is with the app developers. Things like sky sports, bbc iplayer etc constantly update, which at times require the latest OS. This of course isn't valid for older devices thus rendering them unusable for those apps, so you end up with an old device, unable to run many apps, which for an ipad renders it usable as a browser or media device only.

Thats one of the reasons I went away from Apple. The other was I am on an O2 contract who charge £5 a month more for the privilege of having an iphone, which seemed silly as it was 30% of my costs (£11 contract now, was £16)
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Yeah I have an old iPod touch which is now just a brick, because the store doesn't contain older versions of the apps, I can't use my spotify account on it as it's stuck on iOS 4.2 and none of the apps work anymore.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Yeah I have an old iPod touch which is now just a brick, because the store doesn't contain older versions of the apps, I can't use my spotify account on it as it's stuck on iOS 4.2 and none of the apps work anymore.
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i have an unusable computer running windows 3.11 too because i cannot get software for it any more :(
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Yeah I have an old iPod touch which is now just a brick, because the store doesn't contain older versions of the apps, I can't use my spotify account on it as it's stuck on iOS 4.2 and none of the apps work anymore.
Click to expand...

Same. We have a couple of ipods now unusable :(
 
neil_g said:
i have an unusable computer running windows 3.11 too because i cannot get software for it any more :(
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But the software you already had for it, still works.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
If a phone gets stolen they can brick it with the IMEI code. This is just to stop you getting unauthorised repairs. Apparently even replacing the cable between the button and the board can result in the Error 53. If someone wanted to install a compromised button that stole your credentials, they'd need more than just the hardware installed, they'd need to install software that then sent that data somewhere else, and since you can't side-load apps onto an iPhone, then there's no risk is there?
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IMEI block isn't world wide so phone has value abroad. If it is still locked with a pin or touchid then it's not much use. It is unclear whether if you wipe your data off it whether the pin code/touchid lock remains. If not then you've just cleared it for someone else to use.
 
neil_g said:
true. maybe a slightly bad comparison.

however the app store does not work like that, and even if it did you cannot really expect any software dev to support obsolete systems and OS.
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Oh I wouldn't expect it to be supported, but not force an update that the OS can't handle. Obviously if the interface specification has changed, then it wouldn't work anymore, but I'm not sure that's true, could test it by downloading an old version of the app on my android phone to check, but I can't be arsed :)
 
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