Are DSLR's now pretty much dead?

[AZ6]

There are a hundred reasons why someone might say that your equipment isn't much good

It's really none of their ****ing business! Seriously!

This is why amateurs / junior photographers are frowned upon at any event. They simply don't know the etiquette or basic politeness.

But then:

When you are talking press event, as mentioned their maybe 20 or 30 photographers there, if you are working on spec. then you want every advantage you can, so that your photos are the ones brought and not another photographers. When its comes to a magazine or paper making a choice about which photo to buy it can be miniscule things that make a difference.

It's dog eat dog mate. That's Capitalism; that's life. Pretending there's some sort of 'etiquette' is absolute nonsense. I've been in many a press 'scrum'; believe me, the only people being 'polite' in any sense are the AMATEURS. Cos they haven't yet learned to hustle. The pros are all vying for best position. Yeah, most stop short of physical contact, and most folk try not to p*** others off, but there's often still a bit of bumping and barging going on. Etiquette my arse. NOBODY has the 'right' to take photos over anyone else, professional or otherwise. Physically pulling/pushing someone out of the way because they're in the way of 'your' shot, is the behaviour of a bully. Treat people equally, be they professional or amateur. In the situation I described, it was ME who had the inner access. But I still stood aside to let other photographers get their shots. Apart from that one..

Everyone else has to stay out of my way.

Lol! No they don't mate. You just THINK they do. I've met a few like you; 'oh I'm the principle photographer you have to stay out of my way'. Balls. I'm there to do a job as well; a bit of give and take, fine. Start acting like you're somehow 'entitled', and you'll get short shrift. Fortunately, only a very few behave in this way. I've done loads of events; regardless of whatever a photographer's role or 'status, most folk have been absolutely fine. I've been that 'principle photographer', and others have respected that I have a job to do, but if they want to take their own pics/have their own job to do, I'll respect that too. Respect works both ways.

 

[twist]

Yep - and if the mirror slap is a pleasant, reassuring sound (I've returned bodies that were otherwise wonderful because the timbre of the mirror slap was displeasing - having no mirror slap at all is disconcerting)

Do you mean the sound of the shutter?

 

[snerkler]

Dslr's are the workhorse of photographers
mirrorless as i understand relies on an electronic viewfinder?

"Mirrorless cameras have the advantage of usually being lighter, more compact, faster and better for video; but that comes at the cost of access to fewer lenses and accessories. DSLRs have the advantage in lens selection and an optical viewfinder that works better in low light, but they are more complex and bulkier.29 Jan 2018"


dont we just love the feel of a reel body and lens combo?

Are you suggesting mirrorless aren't 'real' bodies?

 

[twist]

Are you suggesting mirrorless aren't 'real' bodies?

Looks unreal to me.

 

[riddell]

I've done loads of events; regardless of whatever a photographer's role or 'status, most folk have been absolutely fine. I've been that 'principle photographer', and others have respected that I have a job to do, but if they want to take their own pics/have their own job to do, I'll respect that too. Respect works both ways.

At the initial briefing its made very clear that the primary photographer has full access and not to interfere or get in the way otherwise. The other photographers are also made aware of this via an email release before they attend the event. Its made clear that they have access under these conditions.

You don't like it don't attend, you won't get access any other way.

 

[shapeshifter]

Evening all,

This is not in any way meant to raise any arguments or anything like that. Apologies if I have missed another thread on this someone, I did have a little look around before creating this one.

The topic came about a few months ago when myself and a few friends were sat having some tea together and discussing all things photography. Two of us use 5dmk3's and the other has an Olympus mirror less camera.

We were all kind of talking about at what stage, if at all, will the DSLR die? At what stage might it be a good idea to trade it in and try and get a good amount of money back for it to then buy into a mirror less system if we thought the DSLR was going.

Or alternatively, if we think the DSLR will be will be around for many years to come yet and the kit will hold its value. To give an idea, both myself and my friend have 5dmk3's and Canon L glass which we have always, if we were getting new lenses or something, sold older ones and got good money back for them. Presumably if the DSLR was dying, the prices for said equipment would also plummet selling second hand?

I hope this all makes sense, I feel a bit like I am struggling to say what I mean this evening and just feel very tired and have a bit of brain fog.

I would love to know what your opinions are and if any of you have jumped ship or indeed stuck with the DSLR.

Thanks.

DSLR are not dead. But I use a 3yr old smart phone to take photos for publication in national press magazines now a lot. I would have in the past used a SLR / DSLR but it is just not necessary now. It's just in your pocket, easy to send photos to editors, can even crop and edit.

But you cannot take photos like this with a smart phone. ISS last Sunday, 220 miles away travelling at 17000 mph shot from my garden.

 

[EspressoJunkie]

I am current shooing with a DSLR (6D) after mainly shooting mirrorless (Fuji /Sony) for the last few years.

Honestly I can’t wait until I can afford a mirrorless body again. The 6D is a great wee camera and produce great images but I do feel the technology lacking is some areas.

I intend to stay Canon and use adapted glass to keep the costs down (my whole reason from moving from Sony) but I really miss the usability of a mirrorless body, primarily the AF and the EVF.

 

[AZ6]

You don't like it don't attend, you won't get access any other way.

I've never been to an event where such a thing has happened. If organisers want to limit the number of photographers, they tend to specify this. Like, having a 'no photographs' type rule. Then only one, or a limited number of photographers can do their thing. Never heard of what you describe.

But anyway. This is derailling from what is otherwise an interesting thread. Just take my words as 'helpful advice'. I hope you can learn from them.

 

[justpix]

Hi, all camera systems have their strengths. Currently, I use mainly 3:

Rangefinder Leica M9 - Elmarit 2,8/28 asph. a pocketcamera for a walk in the mountains:





Mirrorless SONY A7R2 - ZEISS Loxia 2,8/21: a versatile, compact combo for travelling with IBIS and high ISO:






DSLR Nikon D800 - Nikkor 4/70-200: Fast AF for action pics:





All of these systems are very much alive. Up to now, I have not found a single one for all my needs and preferences ... ---

 

[riddell]

I've never been to an event where such a thing has happened. If organisers want to limit the number of photographers, they tend to specify this. Like, having a 'no photographs' type rule. Then only one, or a limited number of photographers can do their thing. Never heard of what you describe.

But anyway. This is derailling from what is otherwise an interesting thread. Just take my words as 'helpful advice'. I hope you can learn from them.

Then you are obviously not attending the kind of events I get invited to attend, very limited photographers.

Not sure what 'helpful' advice it is that you offer, but I think we need to leave it, definitely derailing on a thread. I think I made my personal opinion on mirrorless known. If you want to disagree, fine, but I won't be using one anytime soon.

 

[hunnymonster]

Do you mean the sound of the shutter?

It's the sound one gets when using mirror lockup, live view and of course firing the shutter - willing to believe that it's the shutter curtain but it definitely appears to happen whenever the mirror moves out of the way rather than when the shutter curtain moves.

 

[kendo1]

I suspect my DSLRs will still work in a few years time, and still do what I require.

 

[snerkler]

It's the sound one gets when using mirror lockup, live view and of course firing the shutter - willing to believe that it's the shutter curtain but it definitely appears to happen whenever the mirror moves out of the way rather than when the shutter curtain moves.

Mirror slap and shutter sound almost simultaneously in normal shooting. If you're using live view when you first put it into mirror lock up that's the mirror sound, but then whilst ever you're shooting the sound is the shutter.

 

[hunnymonster]

As I originally said - mirror slap.

 

[Richard King]

I'll have a look at mirrorless when my DSLRs come to the end of life.

But.. Until they resolve the battery usage issue, I'm not intetested. I don't want to be faffing with batteries in the middle of a shoot.

Wysiwyg, is pretty irrelevant for most of my work

The size weight of a d5, balances perfectly with the lenses I mainly use, and more importantly its built like a tank, which is important for me

I can't stand small cameras, my hands are too big

I usually pop on a grip on a D850 ot d500 just to get the size shape and weight right

And to be perfectly honest, if I wanted to shoot video, I would look at a Panasonic. Right tool for the right job etc.

Just because something is new doesn't mean we need to think its better than tried and tested

I shot a Sony a7 mk3 next to my Nikon's at a wedding, and it's not a bad camera, but it really was poor when the light dropped at focusing. I might not have given it enough time, but I felt I was using the camara first and to getting the shot second... as opposed to just shooting the shot

In great light, I liked the focusing, but in anything other than great light I was fighting with the sony

The D5 However just locks on and shoots, first time, every time, in virtually all conditions

The mirrorless crop need to move on a bit

I think Nikon's choice to require an adapter for the regular nikon lenses is a big mistake

I regularly shoot with lenses that I had on a F5, next to the new crop of lenses, fiddling and faffing about doesn't ring my bell on a busy shoot

 

[woof woof]

The balance issue has never been a real world issue for me and I've never needed a heavy body to balance a heavy lens.

When I'm using any lens and especially a larger one when balance would be I suppose more of an issue my hand is under the lens on the focus / zoom ring and I can't think of a time when that hasn't lead to balance. For example amongst other things I have RF style MFT cameras and with my 100-400mm mounted on my teeny tiny GX80 with my hand where it should be, under the lens, perfect balance is achieved

Maybe it's just the way I hold the kit but it works for me.

 

[DG Phototraining]

OP asked... "Are DSLR's now pretty much dead?"

No

Dave

 

[TimHughes]

Canon users with lots of canon glass can just use the R series, they get native performance using EF, unlike when adapting to other mounts.

^ that's me. I really like the R and looking forward to R5 at which point maybe the DSLR versions will go. Also, I have some Fuji mirrorless and that is working out very well.

 

[EspressoJunkie]

^ that's me. I really like the R and looking forward to R5 at which point maybe the DSLR versions will go. Also, I have some Fuji mirrorless and that is working out very well.

Yup. If the lovely Fuji glass wasn’t so expensive I’d have gone straight back to them from Sony.

As I mentioned earlier I hope to get some sort of Canon mirrorless sooner rather than later but keep all my current glass.

 

[woof woof]

OP asked... "Are DSLR's now pretty much dead?"

No

Dave

If by dead we mean they don't work anymore then that's obviously not the case.

What is the case is that fewer lenses are going to be designed for them and fewer new bodies are going to come out too. The used market will be there for years and years and that'll keep people going but I don't think there's any doubt that the DSLR and its lenses are very much on the back burner for the manufacturers these days and their efforts are now largely on mirrorless bodies and lenses.

I suppose it's a similar position to cars, petrol and diesel cars still work and those in circulation may continue to be used for years but the days of going out and buying a new one are very possibly numbered.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Anyway: for the sort of pictures I take these days mirrorless cameras are just fine. I use my only remaining dSLR for some specialist lenses that require full frame.

Sony A65 / Tamron 16~300mm...



Panasonic G9 / 100~400mm...



Panasonic GM5 / 12~32mm...

 

[AZ6]

Not sure what 'helpful' advice it is that you offer

Gotta love the irony here...

N

E

Way....

But.. Until they resolve the battery usage issue, I'm not intetested. I don't want to be faffing with batteries in the middle of a shoot.

I'm getting over 1000 shots on a battery at a single event, not yet had a situation where I've had to change one mid-shoot. And I'm not a 'umpteen fups' type photographer; I tend to do one shot at a time. Almost never use Continuous Shooting. And anyway, changing a battery takes literally seconds.

I can't stand small cameras, my hands are too big

Bear in mind most cams are designed in Japan, where people on average have relatively small hands. The Z6 doesn't feel any 'smaller' than otherNikon cameras, ime. The grip part is actually deeper on my Z6 than on my D600. I don't remember other Nikon DSLRs feeling significantly different really.

Just because something is new doesn't mean we need to think its better than tried and tested

Have you tried and tested a ML camera, for any length of time? A year on, and I'm loving my Z6. So do loads of other users. I'd say it's 'tried and tested'. I really think your fears are unfounded, tbh.

I think Nikon's choice to require an adapter for the regular nikon lenses is a big mistake

The move to the new mount was to allow for new lens designs. The smaller flange diameter of the F mount was considered too limiting (Canon decided similar with their RF mount). The IQ from the new Z mount lenses is better, overall, compared to their F mount equivalents. Certainly, my 50mm Z is in another league, optically, to any F-mount 50mm I've ever used (and I've used LOADS). It's a game changer. End of.

I regularly shoot with lenses that I had on a F5, next to the new crop of lenses, fiddling and faffing about doesn't ring my bell on a busy shoot

So do I. On my Z6. No more 'fiddling and faffing' than if using my F5...


I do get the reticence to adopt ML, by DSLR users. I was doubtful myself. When Nikon announced the Z cams, I simply thought one would be a nice replacement for my D3300, was all. But I've taken to it like a duck to water. Absolutely love it. Amazing camera.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

DSLRs will be around for a good while yet. However the life of a digital camera depends on the availability of replacement parts and of economical repairs. It is remarkably short compared to film cameras.
DSLRs will be available new for a few years yet. But I doubt manufacturers will purchase replacement tooling when the present specialist equipment, used in their manufacture,b comes to end of life.
Even now camera makers are trying to do away with mechanical shutters, let alone. Complex mirror boxes.


Mirrorless designs using purely electronic components are so much easier to make. Even difficult technology like anti shake mechanisms are easier to standardise for each sensor size. And can easily be made to cover an entire range of models.
Electronic shutters have already replaced the mechanical ones in some cameras, and will eventually be the only economical option.

 

[snerkler]

The balance issue has never been a real world issue for me and I've never needed a heavy body to balance a heavy lens.

When I'm using any lens and especially a larger one when balance would be I suppose more of an issue my hand is under the lens on the focus / zoom ring and I can't think of a time when that hasn't lead to balance. For example amongst other things I have RF style MFT cameras and with my 100-400mm mounted on my teeny tiny GX80 with my hand where it should be, under the lens, perfect balance is achieved

Maybe it's just the way I hold the kit but it works for me.

As already been discussed and mickey taken galore I have big hands and don’t get the “I’ve got big hands so need a large body” thing tbh, I think it’s preference and/or familiarity. The best bodies I’ve owned for ergonomics have been the Sony A77, Olympus EM1-II, D750 and Z7, my least favourite was the D850

I'm getting over 1000 shots on a battery at a single event, not yet had a situation where I've had to change one mid-shoot. And I'm not a 'umpteen fups' type photographer; I tend to do one shot at a time. Almost never use Continuous Shooting. And anyway, changing a battery takes literally seconds.

Yep, I’m not really finding I have switch my battery any more often with my mirrorless than I did my DSLRs tbh, but as you say changing a battery rages no time and isn’t a hassle.

Bear in mind most cams are designed in Japan, where people on average have relatively small hands. The Z6 doesn't feel any 'smaller' than otherNikon cameras, ime. The grip part is actually deeper on my Z6 than on my D600. I don't remember other Nikon DSLRs feeling significantly different really.

as above I have large hands and mirrorless suit me just fine. The grip on the D600 and D610 isn’t great imo, the D750 was much better and the Z’s reminded me more of the D750.

The IQ from the new Z mount lenses is better, overall, compared to their F mount equivalents. Certainly, my 50mm Z is in another league, optically, to any F-mount 50mm I've ever used (and I've used LOADS). It's a game changer. End of.
.

I’m not sure why it’s a “game changer” tbh, but the Z lenses have certainly been impressive so far. The 50mm is stellar, but then you’d expect it to be as it was about four times more expensive than the 50mm f1.8g at launch.

 

[GooGaBu]

Answering the initial question are DSLRs dead ...
In my view - no.

But, I have made the switch from DSLR to mirrorless myself in the last few months (and now thanks to Corona - have more than enough time to learn the ins&outs).

There were few reasons I made the switch...
- Canon 1DX mkIII bodies price.. it was just a too much (as I was due to upgrade two of my bodies this year.. so the cost of of two new 1DX series cameras was just OTT)
- Weight/Airlines - I travel a lot to games in various countries, and in recent times have had more and more checks on the weight of hand luggage. Three bodies and lenses, laptop in hand luggage..let's just say it doesn't go under the 8kg/10kg limit. Where as my Sony bodies are easy enough to put to trouser/jacket pockets and thus free space in my hand luggage

- I had gear I wasn't using - after 15 years of Canon shooting, I had accumulated gear that I just wasn't using - so a clear out of that was due anyways.

- Costs - I bought four Sony bodies A9 and A7r series - six lenses - extra batteries.
And after giving my Canon in exchange/selling to friends.. the 'new' money I paid was less than half of the cost of the new 1DX mkIII bodies.

I had considered to wait for the Canon R5 - and see what that would bring.. but I had used the EOS R and EF lenses with an adapter .. and just didn't like what I was getting and feel of it.
So figured it was going to be RF lenses if I went the Canon mirrorless route...

In the short two months I had the chance to use these at games - maybe I all of a sudden became a better photographer.. but I definitely saw more 'keepers' in my images.
The images look just as good as from my 1DX mkII, etc cameras.. so the quality to my eye is still the same.
And I do love the 20fps .. even if it means more shifting in the PP.

As the switch was coming for me anyways in the coming years - and with all the above mentioned reasons.. (and getting a good deal from Sony!!) it just was the right time for me to do it.
Having said that - if I had waiting for three months and been in the middle of Corona-virus and all work drying up.. I would have held on to my Canon gear.

 

[f/2.8]

What you will see all over the internet are 'photographers' blogging about how much they love there Sonys etc. usually they are wedding or event photographers and when you really look into it they often don't have much work, covering a half dozen weddings and low key events a year. This is why they have so much time to write blogs and articles.

What a load of complete and utter nonsense. That is absolutely hilarious.

I mainly shoot weddings usually around 40-50 a year, we also have a commercial photography business as well.

As a wedding photographer we run into other wedding photographers a lot, as many venues have more than one wedding a day. We also have lots of friends who are wedding photographers and then there is all the social media hangouts for wedding photographers, forums etc.

What you have said there is just laughable and shows a complete lack of knowledge and it absolutely seems you have said that purely to suit your own little agenda.

Based on what I see the vast majority of full time wedding photographers or those who are regularly shooting 30-50 weddings a year have already switched over too mirrorless mostly Sony, although plenty shoot Fuji, Canon etc.

There is no point going into the reasons why they have done so as that is pretty obvious. We also know several photographers that only shoot commercial stuff, not as many of them have switched too mirrorless and the main reason is because of the investment they have already made, as most of them use proper pro bodies like Nikon D5's or 1d whatevers. Because of that investment they tend to change equipment on a less frequent basis. Commercial photographers also invest more in lenses and other equipment needing to purchase speciality lenses is par for the course. The cost to change systems for a commercial photographer is very different than for someone who only shoots weddings. Previous to most wedding photographers switching to mirrorless most of them where using Nikon D750's and Canon 5D series bodies. So the cost to change is no where near as much as it is for the commercial photographers. We know many wedding photographers that only have 2 -4 lenses and a couple of flash's, most of the commercial photographers I know have much more advanced lighting and maybe 10 lenses.

The vast majority of wedding videographers shoot Sony mirrorless, I can only off hand remember two videographers in the last year or so who weren't using Sony mirrorless cameras.

Your post also shows a complete lack of understanding on how promoting a wedding business works. Blog posts etc. are an important part of that, quite a few successful wedding photographers blog on a very regular basis that doesn't mean they are using any of there own time as many pay to have blog posts written by freelance writers.

 

[jonbeeza]

I would still have another DSLR, I might get a used one when they become even more affordable, would be nice to get use of my much older lenses. Although I would not mind a mirrorless that has more user functions such as front aperture ring, and all the important buttons and dials on the top plate.

 

[woof woof]

As already been discussed and mickey taken galore I have big hands and don’t get the “I’ve got big hands so need a large body” thing tbh, I think it’s preference and/or familiarity. The best bodies I’ve owned for ergonomics have been the Sony A77, Olympus EM1-II, D750 and Z7, my least favourite was the D850
Yep, I’m not really finding I have switch my battery any more often with my mirrorless than I did my DSLRs tbh, but as you say changing a battery rages no time and isn’t a hassle.

Just in case I was kidding myself I had another look at my GX80 + 100-400mm combination and took a careful note of the point of balance and the result was that for me the teeny tiny camera stuck on the end of a larger lens wasn't a problem, even when zooming

 

[SFTPhotography]

DSLR's are far from dead.

They're still be manufactured and purchased by the bucket load.

A lot of people still really like them - and plenty professionals still continue to a) use them b) buy them.

 

[mrtoad]

Are you suggesting mirrorless aren't 'real' bodies?

sorry i suppose they are really...
and i own one...so now i feel so silly and apologise
limix G5

can you forgive me?

cheers
geof

 

[mrtoad]

Were now in 2020, there have been significant advancements since 2018 in MILC technology and the A9 was around in 2017 so seems a biased quote. They are smaller, lighter, faster FPS, faster more accurate AF for stills and video and the lenses and accessories are at a point where not many can complain. An optical viewfinder does not work better in low light, an EVF lets you see what the sensor sees incl exposure in real time, in low light the sensor sees in the dark better than your eyes can.

On the latest higher end MILC you are getting 20FPS, blackout free, completely silent shooting with AF that is better than DSLRs and the accuracy of on sensor PDAF. The AF points also stretch across nearly 100% of the entire frame.

in ignorance i now withdraw my comment
see my earlier post as well

i bought the G5 to get rid of the mirror clank as i had on my earlier olympus e420

 

[snerkler]

sorry i suppose they are really...
and i own one...so now i feel so silly and apologise
limix G5

can you forgive me?

cheers
geof

Haha, no need to apologise and you are forgiven

 

[mrtoad]

Yep - and if the mirror slap is a pleasant, reassuring sound (I've returned bodies that were otherwise wonderful because the timbre of the mirror slap was displeasing - having no mirror slap at all is disconcerting)

you can still hear the shutter though...when the mirrorless cameras came out...and i have one...it was because of the mirror clack on my oly E420 which i didnt want
i have had quieter slr's....nikon nikkormats EL2 and some early pentax bodies...so i cant say what the more modern dslr's sound like except that from what you say must still be noisy

 

[Brazo]

Are people really so upset over the sound of a mirror? I accept mirrorless is now a serious alternative even better in many aspects than DSLRs but surely the mirror sound isn’t a consideration?

 

[AZ6]

Clap! Clap! Dat's da sound of da mirror...

 

[Mintchocs]

Are people really so upset over the sound of a mirror? I accept mirrorless is now a serious alternative even better in many aspects than DSLRs but surely the mirror sound isn’t a consideration?

My Rebel series cameras have a loud mirror slap. There are times in quieter places where it's annoying.

 

[Faldrax]

Are people really so upset over the sound of a mirror? I accept mirrorless is now a serious alternative even better in many aspects than DSLRs but surely the mirror sound isn’t a consideration?

It's very much a question of where you are shooting - consider any 'formal' ceremony, such as a wedding, remembrance service, etc. or a sporting event such as golf or snooker - these are situations where ANY noise is considered a distraction, and so the option on mirrorless for true silent shooting is a potential advantage.

In the past, DSLR have either been prohibited, or tolerated becasue there was no alternative - now there is, and as awareness of that grows, some venues may start restricting to 'silent shooting only'.

 

[john.margetts]

Are people really so upset over the sound of a mirror? I accept mirrorless is now a serious alternative even better in many aspects than DSLRs but surely the mirror sound isn’t a consideration?

If you spend some time shooting with camera that has a leaf shutter which will be nearly silent, and then go back to a mirror/focal plane shutter combo, the noise is deafening. And it does matter. If you are in a hide, the birds some distance away can hear the mirror slap. If the photographer has the machine gum approach, birds will move. Frequently, you can hear the sighs from dedicated birders when a photographer enters the hide.

 

[twist]

...However, silent shutter has its own issues and isnt the best thing ever unless using a camera like the A9 (even then in rare circumstances banding can be an issue with artificial lighting), all other MILC suffer from distortion with moving subjects at certain shutter speeds (low), some less so than others though. The other issue is flash photography.

 

[twist]

in ignorance i now withdraw my comment
see my earlier post as well

i bought the G5 to get rid of the mirror clank as i had on my earlier olympus e420

Its not ignorance and theres definitely no need to apologise, its the internet, full of misinformation, so hard for the average consumer to find any trusted sources these days because people get paid for their opinions