Are my expectations too high?

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harper

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Adrian Norris
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Are my expectations too high?

I bought a new Canon R6 mark 3 with a new RF24-105mm f4 L lens from the Canon online store, which I had to return due to it being a second hand camera. After eight weeks I had my refund.

I also bought a new Canon 100-500mm f4 L lens from a Canon dealer which contained dust. So I returned that.

I decided to buy a replacement (new) last week however both lenses contain dust, so it’s all going back.
Pity because I like the camera, I’ve not tried it or use it. All I have done is looked it over and it feels fine. I would like to keep it but as it is sold as a kit, it all has to be returned.

I plan to try again however if the same problem occurs again, it will have to go back. No idea what I’m going to do if it has to be returned.

Are my expectations too high in purchasing a new dust free Canon lenses?
 
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How much dust are we talking about, a few specs or a significant amount that affects the images? What did the descriptions say?
 
I think you need to go to a canon dealer in person and check the camera and lenses at the point of sale to confirm they are acceptable. It may be that all canon lenses are supplied with dust already inside and if you want the brand then you accept the dust.
 
As Graham asked above, how much dust are you talking about?

From my limited internet research Canon do not guarantee new lenses to be dust free.
 
No lens is ever dust free, also the dust you're seeing is magnified by the elements and probably looks a lot worse than it really is.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I think you need to go to a canon dealer in person and check the camera and lenses at the point of sale to confirm they are acceptable. It may be that all canon lenses are supplied with dust already inside and if you want the brand then you accept the dust.
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You're correct but unfortunately I don't live near a Canon dealer and if I did I don't think they would be to keen for me to go through their stock.
Well the dust in a new lens shouldn't be accepted by anyone, it's up to Canon to address the problem.
 
For the amount they cost from uk dealers i would expect new kit to be clean. Another far more critical issue that you may not realise is optical assembly quality control, i.e. do image sides appear unequivocally defocused? Canon wideangles have a very high chance so 24-105 would be suspect, let alone the natural limitations of budget super zoom like this
 
harper said:
Enough to annoy me and I'm not surprised, too may warranty claims.
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I think your research on this is self selecting. I’ve never read of lots of warranty claims for Canon products. But I bet if I went looking, I could find some.

I’ve been a canon user for over 25 years, and I’ve never considered that they released a bad product.

I’ve bought dozens of lenses over that time and none of them contained a worrying amount of dust. But also I haven’t seen NEVER inspected a new product with forensic meticulousness.

My test? Does everything work as it should? Great! Crack on and take pictures.

So back to your question:
harper said:
Are my expectations too high in purchasing a new dust free Canon lenses?
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Now obviously none of us are beside you when you inspect these items, but I think there’s a fair chance that your expectations aren’t ’too high’, but they’re actually unrealistic.
 
Brentor said:
As Graham asked above, how much dust are you talking about?

From my limited internet research Canon do not guarantee new lenses to be dust free.
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No one does, little bit of dust has zero impact. A fairly large amount of dust barely has an impact.
 
There generally is a reason why items are second hand ,it is up to the buyer to ask first to find out why. This is why I buy lenses from Japan you get a true description of the item ,ie lens
 
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Would you class the Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM lens as budget?


My first Canon camera was a 400D, which in many ways was a better camera than the 700D that replaced it. I went to buy a 350D but that had been discontinued so I came away with a new 400D.Not sure when that was but it hadn't been on the market that long. I have used Canon cameras since then.

I did own a EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM lens until I sold it three months ago, and I couldn't see any dust in that. I'm not saying it was 100% dust free but I couldn't see any and if it was visible I would have seen it! I have other Canon zoom lenses (EF/EFS) that appear to be void of dust and have an old Helios zoom that appears to be dust free.

I don't have a careless attitude. I could easily take out ten grand out of my bank account and burn it in the garden, however I have more sense than that!

I have high and unrealistic expectations especially when it comes to a Canon lens costing over £3,000.
 
Dave Canon said:
I have always bought my Canon kit new from a reputable UK dealer and never had any problems.

Dave
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I bought the camera kit from the UK Canon online store, which I discover since hasn't got many good reviews.

The RF100-500mm F4L lens came from one of Canon's dealers as listed on their website.
 
harper said:
Would you class the Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM lens as budget?


My first Canon camera was a 400D, which in many ways was a better camera than the 700D that replaced it. I went to buy a 350D but that had been discontinued so I came away with a new 400D.Not sure when that was but it hadn't been on the market that long. I have used Canon cameras since then.

I did own a EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM lens until I sold it three months ago, and I couldn't see any dust in that. I'm not saying it was 100% dust free but I couldn't see any and if it was visible I would have seen it! I have other Canon zoom lenses (EF/EFS) that appear to be void of dust and have an old Helios zoom that appears to be dust free.

I don't have a careless attitude. I could easily take out ten grand out of my bank account and burn it in the garden, however I have more sense than that!

I have high and unrealistic expectations especially when it comes to a Canon lens costing over £3,000.
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Here's an alternative hypothesis then - a suggestion rather than anything more concrete. The new lenses, for some reason, make it easier to see the dust than the older ones. You've had a big zoom, notorious for accumulating dust, yet which apparently remained dust-free. This suggests therefore that it probably contained it, but the dust simply wasn't easily spotted.
 
harper said:
None were bought second had, all new items.

Is this just a second hand camera forum?

Why assume it was second hand?
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I also assumed some of it was second hand because of all the mention of dust, which isn't something usually mentioned when buying new - presumably because it will typically be such trivial amounts nobody talks about it.

No need to be snippy, people are trying to help.
 
@harper sounds like you have been pretty unlucky. I would expect a new kit to be dust-free too. What do Canon say about all the issues themselves?
 
ancient_mariner said:
Here's an alternative hypothesis then - a suggestion rather than anything more concrete. The new lenses, for some reason, make it easier to see the dust than the older ones. You've had a big zoom, notorious for accumulating dust, yet which apparently remained dust-free. This suggests therefore that it probably contained it, but the dust simply wasn't easily spotted.
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I did say it wasn't 100% dust free and I have no idea what the magnification factor of the front element is? I just couldn't see anything on the actual front element, inside or looking through the lens.
 
gman said:
I also assumed some of it was second hand because of all the mention of dust, which isn't something usually mentioned when buying new - presumably because it will typically be such trivial amounts nobody talks about it.

No need to be snippy, people are trying to help.
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Sorry if you feel I was being "snippy", but I did highlight the word "new" and every time I start a thread about equipment issues it's always taken that I'm on about used equipment.
Thanks for your help.
 
harper said:
Sorry if you feel I was being "snippy", but I did highlight the word "new" and every time I start a thread about equipment issues it's always taken that I'm on about used equipment.
Thanks for your help.
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It wasn't highlighted when I first replied. I think because you mentioned "second hand" then it shifted my focus, but apologies for misreading it.

Looking at your previous threads started, it doesn't seem obvious to me that you are always talking about new gear, so if people are always misunderstanding then I can only presume that it's not overly clear, even though it is still being said.
 
Haven't read all 23 replies, so apologies if this has already been covered.


A few specks of dust inside a lens is normal and rarely worth losing sleep over. Zooms in particular pump air in and out every time you change focal length, so they'll pick something up sooner or later — and most of it never shows in an image, even if you go hunting for it at f/22 against a white wall.


What actually matters is fungus and scratches. Fungus will etch the coatings on a modern lens and it spreads if you leave it, so that's the one to catch early. Scratches are worse still, because the marks scatter light and there's nothing to be done about them. Neither is what you're describing.


That said, on a £3,000 lens bought new you're entitled to expect satisfactory quality, and sending it back if you're not happy is fair enough — that's between you and the retailer. My only worry is that "dust free" isn't really a permanent state for a zoom, so you could end up chasing something that doesn't exist. If the next one has a speck or two, I'd put it on the camera and shoot with it for a week before deciding.


For what it's worth, I've used Canon gear for years in some fairly grim conditions and it's held up well. All bought with my own money, new and used — no freebies here.

Marco Ottico
 
Gav. said:
I think as Toni said earlier, find a dealer, it'll save you time and effort ordering, returning gear and waiting on refunds, you've posted a few threads on this since June(?), WEX, LCE or Park Cameras should all be able to help you.
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I have tried two out of three of those!
 
Ed Sutton said:
:plus1:

Life's too short for looking for dust that won't affect those pictures.:)
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I think it was ifixit or similar that purposely added dust until they could see it. Eye opening how much they needed to add before it was noticeable. I no longer worry about it. I got a 35mm f1.4 recently it had a spec of dust at the back end of the lens.
 
Even going to a camera retailer can catch you out. Years ago I went into a Jessops store (before it collapsed and taken over) . I went to buy a brand new Nikon camera ,got it home only to find it had already taken several photos. So took it back and then told it was a shop demo not brand new. So we all can get caught out one way or another. They did give me another in a sealed box after being challenged about it.
 
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The 100-500 lens is going to have dust... if not when leaving the factory floor, it will shortly thereafter (e.g.. during testing?). That's because it is an external zoom and when the lens extends air enters the barrel, and that air is not filtered. The lens is "sealed" in order to limit problematic moisture/dirt from entering the lens, but it is not perfect.

So maybe it's not worth getting too twisted about something that is going to happen anyway.
 
Phil V said:
I think your research on this is self selecting. I’ve never read of lots of warranty claims for Canon products. But I bet if I went looking, I could find some.

I’ve been a canon user for over 25 years, and I’ve never considered that they released a bad product.

I’ve bought dozens of lenses over that time and none of them contained a worrying amount of dust. But also I haven’t seen NEVER inspected a new product with forensic meticulousness.

My test? Does everything work as it should? Great! Crack on and take pictures.

So back to your question:

Now obviously none of us are beside you when you inspect these items, but I think there’s a fair chance that your expectations aren’t ’too high’, but they’re actually unrealistic.
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I have a very similar Canon experience profile....and a very similar attitude to 'risk' / getting on and enjoying my new equipment!!!
 
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