Beginner Auto ISO or not

littleted

littleted

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Name
Rob
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so being fairly new to all this photography stuff I always used auto iSo I normally set the camera to never go higher than 3200 or 6400 and off I go, but on playing tonight I noticed that I could take 2 pictures same subject auto iSo picked 640 and if I set it manually at 100 it was kind of the same, shutter fired same speed or so I could tell and totally fine hand held.

So my question to you pros
Do you use auto Iso and what setting do you normally set the max to, and if I was to not use auto iSo do any of you have a rule of thumb that says, when sunny use 100 murky day 400 dusk shots 1600 3200 etc.im thinking in the old days your film was iso 200 100 or 400, 200 being a good one for light and dark.

I just feel auto iso can over egg it sometimes really ramping it up...

I suppose the other question is shutter speed I use Nikon and Sony and in the Nikon you can set a min shutter speed or leave auto I think if I set this correctly it may not jump about as much any tips?
Thanks guys
 
What subject matter are you photographying?
 
I use it if I need my shutter speed to be above a minimum level.
I set a max of 1600 iso on my d7000
 
I think the answer to this is quite complex. I use auto iso when I want to control both aperture and shutter speed. For example I often set 1/1000 f10 for my dragonfly pictures to get the right dof and freeze motion. Similarly, for birds in flight and other action shots when I want complete control. The camera then sets iso. As I use FF, I am not really concerned about noise and have gone as high as 25600 for owls at dusk.

Ps, not everyone here is a pro. Most are enthusiastic amateurs.
 
•


I almost always use Auto ISO when tackling
an action shoot (for greater work speed) where
light conditions are predictable for example.

I make sure though that I did set in the desired
lower and upper ISO limits.
 
It's more about when I don't use Auto ISO :)

When I'm doing a studio setup, a landscape or a long exposure I'll use a fixed ISO. For pretty much everything else it's auto ISO.

My min shutter speed is set for 1/250 which works for many subjects and all lenses except my 120-300mm when handheld. My max ISO is 12.8k and I've used that ISO quite a lot for shots in the last couple of weeks. It will depend on your camera body but with a lot of modern sensors, it can produce acceptable shots especially for web use.

For shots where you have time to choose your settings more carefully, I'd err on the side of faster shutter and higher ISO. But I have my auto settings to allow me to "grab" a shot with a good likelihood of it being usable.
 
I hardly ever use auto ISO. I can't remember the last time I used it actually.

I usually use aperture priority and keep an eye on the shutter speed and hence the ISO.
It's no big deal to up it a bit when I need to.
My subjects tend not to move very fast... :)
 
I think it depends on the camera as to how useful Auto ISO is. When I had a camera with 'dumb' ISO, I didn't use it. When I got a camera where you could set the minimum Shutter speed and maximum ISO and the ISO performance got better, I used it whilst walking around streets on holiday, where the light level could change around every corner. I was using a 16-85mm lens and would set it to a minimum of 100th sec with stabilisation on. This meant that it sometimes raised the ISO more than it needed to when I was at a wide angle. If it were a really good scene I would turn Auto ISO off and use the lowest ISO I could when possible.

I have a new camera that can alter the ISO in relation to the focal length, so I can get back a few stops of ISO than with the previous Auto ISO implementation at wider angles. The new camera is a lot better than the older camera with ISO performance, so for a few stops off base ISO I'm not worrying as much as I used to.
 
littleted said:
So my question to you pros
Do you use auto Iso and what setting do you normally set the max to, and if I was to not use auto iSo do any of you have a rule of thumb that says, when sunny use 100 murky day 400 dusk shots 1600 3200 etc.im thinking in the old days your film was iso 200 100 or 400, 200 being a good one for light and dark.

I just feel auto iso can over egg it sometimes really ramping it up...

I suppose the other question is shutter speed I use Nikon and Sony and in the Nikon you can set a min shutter speed or leave auto I think if I set this correctly it may not jump about as much any tips?
Thanks guys
Click to expand...

I'm not a pro.

I use aperture priority with auto ISO until the shutter speed drops too low and I then switch to shutter priority or manual mode and dial in the shutter speed (and if in manual the aperture too) I want and let the ISO float and if getting a shot I want means using 6400 to 25,600 I'd rather take the shot than not. Back when I used ISO 1600 film and that was what I was limited too I remember the shutter speed falling too low for people shots and the only thing that hid the motion blur was that the prints were small.

These days being able to get a useable (fine for web use, screen viewing of even quite large prints when viewed normally) picture when shooting at 25,600 seems like science fiction.

I don't really understand people who set an upper limit of ISO 1600. I can hit ISO 1600 in what passes for outdoor daylight in northern England :D (well, maybe if in a shaded spot) never mind for indoor shooting.
 
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woof woof said:
I don't really understand people who set an upper limit of ISO 1600
Click to expand...
•


High ISO, depending on the used camera, can be
a fantastic option.

On my D800E, for example, I will never wish to go
higher than ISO 800 as, on the D3S, the same 800
are far under the higher range 6400. My all time fa-
vorite, the D3X, goes no further than 3200.

Of course they can do much more but these are the
limits before image quality degradation.
 
You'll get a different answer off everyone, just work out how you like to shoot in different situations, and go with that.

Personally I never use it, just as I never use other auto exposure modes like aperture or shutter priority. Reason being I find them far too much hard work, I don't want to be constantly watching the meter, working out what the camera is seeing, and compensating for it. I just want to watch my subject and shoot it, knowing exactly what the exposure is going to be. Others find shooting manually to be more work than using auto modes, probably depends on how your brain is wired, and of course the style you like to shoot in.
 
I've never used auto ISO, but mainly because I've never really needed to because I don't shoot fast moving things, and also because I've never really looked into how it works etc. Probably because when I first got a DSLR I used fully manual mode to learn the exposure triangle and the relationship between aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and then after I'd learned that I moved on to using aperture priority and juggling the shutter speed and ISO as needed. Pretty much the same as @kendo1 has said.

Mind you, my main subject is landscapes and such. Because the shutter speed isn't typically overly important, the ISO tends to stay around 100-400. If I was photographing racing bikes then I'd probably have more reason to learn to use auto ISO. I didn't know you could set a maximum for it, so it sounds pretty useful.
 
There's 2 issues here, and the first is a misunderstanding:

The camera will not just raise the ISO for no reason, and the other settings aren't going to be similar at both 100 and 640 ISO.

The OP doesn't say what mode they were shooting, or indeed any other details, but to use Auto ISO successfully requires some planning to make it work (and the right camera), not all cameras are created equal, and some do Auto ISO brilliantly, and some do it abysmally.
 
littleted said:
but on playing tonight I noticed that I could take 2 pictures same subject auto iSo picked 640 and if I set it manually at 100 it was kind of the same, shutter fired same speed or so I could tell and totally fine hand held.
Click to expand...
Nope... something had to of changed besides just the ISO.
I've never had auto ISO mess up an exposure...
 
Phil V said:
not all cameras are created equal, and some do Auto ISO brilliantly, and some do it abysmally.
Click to expand...

If the sig is right he's using an a7RII, so a nice implementation of Auto ISO (explicit minimum shutter speeds and variable minimums dependent on focal length) and plenty of scope to use ridiculous ISO settings if needs be.
 
Carl Hall said:
I've never used auto ISO, but mainly because I've never really needed to because I don't shoot fast moving things,.
Click to expand...

It has absoloutly nothing do to with shooting a moving subject no matter how fast or slow..
 
Jayst84 said:
Personally I never use it, just as I never use other auto exposure modes like aperture or shutter priority. Reason being I find them far too much hard work, I don't want to be constantly watching the meter,.
Click to expand...

So.. given the OP is outside shooting bikes and the lighting can change quickly as a bike aproaches him. or maybe go in and out of shadows at speed... a second maybe to change your settings.. less than a second maybe.. you prefer to change your settings in manual and thats the advice for the OP?

Sometimes Manual is the worse option you can use.
 
KIPAX said:
It has absoloutly nothing do to with shooting a moving subject no matter how fast or slow..
Click to expand...

My meaning wasn't to do with the speed of the subject, but more about the time to react to the subject or time to change settings. I've got a lot more time to faff about with my settings when my camera is mounted to a tripod pointing at a mountain which isn't going anywhere, than someone shooting racing cars that needs to be concentrating on their subject more than their settings. Because of this I think auto ISO could be more useful to people in this situation.

Perhaps I should have said "fast changing situations" rather than "fast moving subjects"
 
KIPAX said:
So.. given the OP is outside shooting bikes and the lighting can change quickly as a bike aproaches him. or maybe go in and out of shadows at speed... a second maybe to change your settings.. less than a second maybe.. you prefer to change your settings in manual and thats the advice for the OP?

Sometimes Manual is the worse option you can use.
Click to expand...

Agree. The time you most need to be aware of changing conditions is in full manual. Maybe the weather in Oz is more reliable ;)

I'd like to use auto-ISO, but I don't because my Canons are not very good at it. I know many of us are conditioned to leaving ISO alone a lot of the time from our experience with film, but with today's cameras there's often a lot more exposure scope in ISO than there is in either shutter speeds or apertures if you want to work within an optimum window. The ability to use exactly the shutter speed and aperture you want is very liberating, so I often adjust exposure with ISO, but manually which is a bit irritating.

Camera manufacturers should take the lead and give ISO equal status, with separate and independent controls.
 
ukaskew said:
If the sig is right he's using an a7RII, so a nice implementation of Auto ISO (explicit minimum shutter speeds and variable minimums dependent on focal length) and plenty of scope to use ridiculous ISO settings if needs be.
Click to expand...
Sorry I should have said I was using a new D500, but after much testing and checking I eventually reset the camera and everything came good again, I'm unsure what I'd changed because I hadn't done much apart from config the back button autofocus to be centre focus on demand

The Isis have dropped drastically to acceptable levels not miles off, it must have been some shutter speed setting or something that I'd unknowingly messed with.

But can I thank you all for the help, it's really had me do some research and attack the way I shoot differently.
 
KIPAX said:
So.. given the OP is outside shooting bikes and the lighting can change quickly as a bike aproaches him. or maybe go in and out of shadows at speed... a second maybe to change your settings.. less than a second maybe.. you prefer to change your settings in manual and thats the advice for the OP?

Sometimes Manual is the worse option you can use.
Click to expand...

Well, the question was, "So my question to you pros Do you use auto Iso?". Also, Rob appeared to be seeking general advice and opinions on it. Then my advice was the first line in my post, "You'll get a different answer off everyone, just work out how you like to shoot in different situations, and go with that." I then offered my personal preferences and experience.

But yes, if I was shooting bike racing I would most likely shoot it in full manual mode. You know how bright the light is, you know how dark the shadows are. You don't know exactly what tone your camera will be metering from as you frame up each shot, therefore I find manual to be the easiest mode to use, requiring the least input from myself. But, to repeat, because you missed it the first time, you'll get a different answer off everyone, just work out how you like to shoot in different situations, and go with that. ;)

HoppyUK said:
Agree. The time you most need to be aware of changing conditions is in full manual. Maybe the weather in Oz is more reliable ;)
Click to expand...

The even grey skies back home are usually more reliable I find. Anyway, for work I'm shooting indoors 90% of the time, with light that changes a heck of a lot quicker than a cloud floating past, auto modes would be a huge pain in the arse, and require constant adjustment as different shots are framed differently. Manual makes it all very easy.
 
Jayst84 said:
But yes, if I was shooting bike racing I would most likely shoot it in full manual mode..
Click to expand...

great if the light is steady.. stupid and miss the shots if the light is changing.. try it.. thats not a bad idea actually before offering advice..
 
One point not mentioned is that Auto ISO (and aperture/shutter priority) are dependent on the information provided by the metering mode.
If you are photographing fast bikes, the bike goes into a patch of shade, if the metering mode is spot metering, it'll bump up the ISO to expose the bike in shade correctly (assuming you've focussed on the bike), but may end up with the rest of the shot (that's not in shade) over exposed because it was metering for the shaded bike. If you were using "centre weighted" or matrix metering, it may end up metering to get an average like of exposure across both the bright and shaded parts of the shot.

I don't take many sports photographs, but if I do, I choose my own aperture and shutter speed according to what I want to achieve, (do I want motion blur or to freeze the action?), then if the lighting conditions are fairly consistent, I'd pick my ISO, altering it myself if needed. However if the lighting was constantly changing (like the subject biker/player/runner/etc moving in and out of shade), then I'd likely go for auto-ISO.

I did shoot with film (still do) before I got a DSLR, so I already knew about the exposure triangle, meaning when I got started with a DSLR I wasn't really tempted to use auto-ISO. I would always pick my ISO first, then firstly I started using aperture priority, then went full manual.
I mostly shoot in manual now. I've learnt through experience how to judge a scene for light, pick some basic settings (for what I want to achieve) and work from there. But, vast majority of the time I'm not working on a) critical event shots like at a wedding or b) fast changing situations like sports.
In either of those situations, auto-ISO may well make the difference between getting a well exposed shot and not getting a usable shot at all.

One reason I don't use auto-ISO is that it's not a very clever implementation on my Canon 60D and I'd rather have full control over it making sure it stays as low as possible. Other cameras have much better systems and much better noise handling at high-ISO.

But as said, a lot of this is personal preference and you have to work out how you want to work.
Auto-anything can be handy, but it's also useful to know what exactly is happening when it's in auto and why. Get to know your camera and how to expose shots yourself, how one part of the exposure triangle affects the others.
No one gets it right at the beginning, learn as you go, keep shooting and work it out.
 
my next race is Cadwell Park a week Sunday, so i,ll have a crack with it all then, see what kinda weather i get and what the Camera does. After the total reset she seems to be behaving, unsure what caused it but beginners mistakes i,ll put it down to.

Thanks guys appreciated
 
ABTog said:
One point not mentioned is that Auto ISO (and aperture/shutter priority) are dependent on the information provided by the metering mode.
Click to expand...
*All modes* are dependent on the metering, it's always the starting point. And the metering can be overridden/changed just as easily in all modes.

Personally, I prefer the "error" of auto ISO in rapidly changing/variable situations... I'd much rather have the camera "underexpose" a white subject catching the sun ("blown out" in reality), and "overexpose" a dark subject in shade ("clipped black" in reality). Even in a mixed situation where both can't be exposed correctly, I'd prefer to save the highlights. My ability to correct those errors in post will leave me with a much more usable image and it will look more like it did to me at the time.

With something like sports/motorsports where you may have a wide disparity of color/brightness (paint/jerseys) and light/angles I'll choose auto ISO over manual even if the light level is relatively constant. Actually, I am so used to using auto ISO that I tend to use it for almost everything... and then it usually bites me the first shot or two in the studio where I don't really want to use it.
 
sk66 said:
There is a point where increasing ISO doesn't gain you anything, and it is actually costing you DR/color information... where that point is varies by camera model/situation.
Click to expand...

A few test frames should be enough to decide if shooting at higher ISO in camera or boosting post capture gives the best results.

My main point was that regardless of the DR/IQ degradation a modern camera may give useable results at much higher ISO or post capture boost than the limits some seem to impose.
 
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Kodiak Qc said:
Of course they can do much more but these are the limits before image quality degradation.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we'd all like all of our shots to be perfect but if the choice is shooting or not shooting because the quality threshold may be too low for a 4 foot wide gallery print I'll still take the shot, every time :D I've taken many shots at ISO's above 6400 and indeed up to and including 25,600 and whilst they wont have people swooning over the image quality they're fine for screen display and even reasonably sized prints viewed by normal people.
 
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woof woof said:
if the choice is shooting or not shooting…
Click to expand...
•

Correct.

I did take shots at the end of the dial but these
were not for publication but documentation.

ISO is an other tool with options to know and
apply in the right conditions.
 
[QUOTE="HoppyUK, post: 7451121, member: 12800"

Camera manufacturers should take the lead and give ISO equal status, with separate and independent controls.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean like Nikon do? You can also use exp comp when using auto iso on Nikon. (based on D300, D3 and D4)
 
BBR said:
Do you mean like Nikon do? You can also use exp comp when using auto iso on Nikon. (based on D300, D3 and D4)
Click to expand...


Right, +1
 
BBR said:
[QUOTE="HoppyUK, post: 7451121, member: 12800"

Camera manufacturers should take the lead and give ISO equal status, with separate and independent controls.
Click to expand...
Do you mean like Nikon do? You can also use exp comp when using auto iso on Nikon. (based on D300, D3 and D4)
Click to expand...

Not really, though Nikon generally does it better than Canon - any auto mode is useless without exposure compensation. I would like three direct access dials with no button pressing involved. Nikon had a go with the Df, though I think Fuji has done a good job with the X-T1. Shutter speed dial (in the proper place ;)), aperture settings around the lens (also in the proper place), and ISO on the left. All three have an A setting, plus a big compensation dial on the right. Looks sweet to me :)

X-T1 Image from google search http://www.techradar.com/reviews/ca...ds/fuji-x-t1-and-x-t1-graphite-1217506/review
 
HoppyUK said:
Not really, though Nikon generally does it better than Canon - any auto mode is useless without exposure compensation. I would like three direct access dials with no button pressing involved.
Click to expand...
Nikon has a couple of options that can help... In A(Av) or S(Tv) modes you can use "easy ISO" or "easy EC" which assigns that function to the unused dial on the body.
But it can be VERY easy to set something unintended if you're not used to it...

Personally, I wouldn't like the controls on the Fuji... I don't like having to use/move my left hand in for switching.
 
sk66 said:
Nikon has a couple of options that can help... In A(Av) or S(Tv) modes you can use "easy ISO" or "easy EC" which assigns that function to the unused dial on the body.
But it can be VERY easy to set something unintended if you're not used to it...

Personally, I wouldn't like the controls on the Fuji... I don't like having to use/move my left hand in for switching.
Click to expand...

I may be in the minority, though I rarely adjust controls with the camera at eye level, maybe a bit of exposure comp, that's about it. So I like having everything laid out clear and simple on top and using the left hand/thumb is fine. Depends on what you shoot, too - long lens action stuff is different, through the viewfinder with right hand is definitely better for that, compared to say landscape or tripod.
 
There's a triangle of settings for correct exposure - aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Varying the first two have more dramatic an effect than varying ISO though high ISO's will increase noise. As for what your maximum should be, it absolutely depends on your camera and sensor. My LX100 will take extremely good shots up to 1600, and there's little deterioration by 6400, so for me, that's my maximum. It will be different for different photographers even with the same camera - some pixel peep (I don't) and will therefore not take ISO higher than 400 or 800.

A good rule of thumb is that the bigger the sensor the higher you can go with maximum ISO - for small sensors, 800 is advisable, all the way up to full frame where 12800 will often be perfectly acceptable. However, do be aware that lenses and different makes of sensors can affect the equation, but doesn't alter the main principle.

As for Auto ISO, I'm more likely to keep it on that than Auto-anything else. I rarely take it off Auto.
 
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Chrisphoter said:
A good rule of thumb is that the bigger the sensor the higher you can go with maximum ISO - for small sensors, 800 is advisable, all the way up to full frame where 12800 will often be perfectly acceptable. However, do be aware that lenses and different makes of sensors can affect the equation, but doesn't alter the main principle.
Click to expand...
The age of the camera could have a large effect on your 'rule of thumb' values. ;)
 
People keeping ISO low, couldn't possibly shoot above X why???

ISO on modern cameras is far better than most people's ability.

Don't judge grain on screen at 100% print it
 
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