automatic for the people

jamiebonline

jamiebonline

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Hi again guys,

I was just wondering if you use any of the automatic modes. I mean, Shutter priority or Aperture priority or indeed full auto. I learned manual mode from the beginning and do that mostly but actually Aperture Priority is very useful for street photography. It also saves time.

On a side note, I am going traveling next year and I have an appropriate compact digital camera for that but for fun as much as anything, I was going to buy a little Olympus Mju II and take some shots with it. This, I believe is totally automatic. A full frame camera for 10 bucks :D It reminds me of the little single use film cameras. There is a certain pleasure to be got from shooting this way sometimes. It is so limited it becomes almost all about content and composition and seeing the light and gauging how the camera will meter. Anyone occasionally shoot this little totally automatic cameras? (I guess some phone cameras might fit this category)


J
 
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Personally I always use fully manual but plenty others will advocate some of the semi auto modes. Because I don't use them I cant comment on the pros and cons of these settings.
 
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jamiebonline said:
I was going to buy a little Olympus Mju II and take some shots with it. This, I believe is totally automatic.
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I have a mju II and used it for years, mostly with slide film. It's a great little camera. Just buy it and stop worrying! :D

Just be aware that the flash is automatic too, so it will fire if the camera thinks it is too dark - but it can be disabled.

As for what modes to use otherwise - that all depends on the situation.
 
I tend to use aperture priority or manual the majority of the time, but I use all the modes (although my camera doesn't have any 'scene' modes). I'll happily use program mode for snapshots, and the others for more creative stuff. Heck I've had work published, sold and exhibited that was shot in program mode - as of yet, no-one has asked me what mode it was shot in. It's clearly not the be all and end all, but it's a good starting point.

When I was first learning photography at nightschool (must be at least 10-12 years ago), the guy teaching us was happy for us to shoot in program mode as it allowed us to focus on the composition and the story-telling aspects of the photograph, rather than get bogged down in settings. He was a press photographer and had won the British Press Photographer of the Year previously so I work on the basis that if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me!
 
Aperture mostly for me with auto ISO until the light drops and the camera selects too low a shutter speed and then I change to shutter or manual as required. Mostly. If there are special and or unusual situations I may use manual from the off but mostly I don't see the point in setting everything unless there's a specific reason for doing so as setting anything and everything is just another thing to do.

I don't agree with the view that real men and real women shoot manual and anyone using semi auto or auto modes are lesser beings, to me there has to be a reason for selecting a mode other than machismo.
 
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Manual, A or S depending on what I'm doing. Been using manual with auto iso a lot for the last couple of years too. Totally depends on what I'm doing.
 
Depending on subject, I used to almost always use either Av or Tv, with the Safety Shift feature switched on. I was happy that my camera was metering correctly and I didn't have second guess it. My use of manual was very, very limited until recently when I acquired a camera with auto ISO. Now for certain sports will use use manual with Auto ISO.
 
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Providing you understand how you camera works priority modes can be very useful indeed. I don't use shutter priority as I always want control of aperture, so if I need to control shutter speed too I'll often use manual mode but with auto ISO. As aperture and shutter are fixed, the only variable is ISO so why not let the camera do this instead. It's especially useful when panning for sports. Also, on my camera I can set exp comp in manual so I get even more control.
 
Mainly use AP.

Look at this way, if you're using Manual, plus the cameras light meter, and setting aperture for your composition / DOF, then selecting a shutter speed that the camera says is the right exposure. You're doing exactly the same as AP anyway, only the camera can do that last bit instantly.
 
Mainly P mode for me but very often shifted away from the original settings selected to get a particular shutter speed or aperture. Happy using any mode, although I generally go for one of the priority ones and exposure compensation rather than fully manual.
 
woof woof said:
to me there has to be a reason for selecting a mode other than machismo.
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I agree. Semi auto modes are very useful, I use Manual when I want things to remain consistent between shots or in tricky light where I often find it serves my needs better than using exposure comp.
 
Funnily enough I thought I would give the handheld night shot auto mode on the G16 a go last night at a xmas lights turning on event, pretty disastrous I would say and soon switched back to M..

It made me think about how disappointing it would be for a new user .
 
strumstrum said:
Funnily enough I thought I would give the handheld night shot auto mode on the G16 a go last night at a xmas lights turning on event, pretty disastrous I would say and soon switched back to M..

It made me think about how disappointing it would be for a new user .
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TBH I steer well clear of scene modes, I've no idea what the camera is doing for each mode and so have no control. With Aperture and shutter modes, as well as manual mode with auto ISO it is predictable what the camera is going to do/choose. As KitsuneAndy said, in these modes the camera only does what you would have done anyway (assuming set up right) as we are dictated by the same meter.

For example, if I wanted to take a portrait then aperture is my main priority, and then I want to keep ISO to a minimum as long as shutter speed does not fall below the threshold I can handhold. So I use aperture priority with auto ISO and I have my camera set with an upper limit of ISO as well as the minimum shutter speed. In aperture priority my camera will alter shutter speed to get the correct exposure which is exactly what I would do, only the camera will do it instantly. If shutter speed reaches the threshold I've set it will then increase ISO to get the exposure, and guess what? This is again exactly what I would have done.

EDIT: Obviously this is just an example, there are of course times when you need to take full manual control.
 
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snerkler said:
the camera only does what you would have done anyway (assuming set up right) as we are dictated by the same meter.

For example, if I wanted to take a portrait then aperture is my main priority, and then I want to keep ISO to a minimum as long as shutter speed does not fall below the threshold I can handhold. So I use aperture priority with auto ISO and I have my camera set with an upper limit of ISO as well as the minimum shutter speed. In aperture priority my camera will alter shutter speed to get the correct exposure which is exactly what I would do, only the camera will do it instantly. If shutter speed reaches the threshold I've set it will then increase ISO to get the exposure, and guess what? This is again exactly what I would have done.
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That's fine under certain conditions, but I would hate to set up for a portrait shoot and have the camera changing the exposure if I choose to brighten a part of the scene with flash or a reflector, or opening a curtain behind the subject. Multiple "planes of exposure" require manual control imho.
 
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I use aperture priority just about all the time. I take more landscapes than anything else so controlling DoF is important to me. I set the ISO as low as possible and let the camera take care of the shutter speed. I keep an eye on the shutter speed and adjust the ISO if I think the shutter speed is getting too low. Taking landscapes I'm less likely to miss a shot than in other types of photography. As already noted if you choose an aperture with the camera in Manual mode and adjust the shutter speed so the meter indicator is in the middle of the scale, then the result is the same as aperture priority would have done.

Dave
 
Brian_of_Bozeat said:
That's fine under certain conditions, but I would hate to set up for a portrait shoot and have the camera changing the exposure if I choose to brighten a part of the scene with flash or a reflector, or opening a curtain even. Multiple "planes of exposure" require manual control imho.
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Yeah, it wasn't meant for every occasion, was just an example :p Obviously there are times when I would set everything manually, and using studio lighting is one of the those examples. In fact, I tend to use full manual when using flash too.
 
Tringa said:
I use aperture priority just about all the time. I take more landscapes than anything else so controlling DoF is important to me. I set the ISO as low as possible and let the camera take care of the shutter speed. I keep an eye on the shutter speed and adjust the ISO if I think the shutter speed is getting too low. Taking landscapes I'm less likely to miss a shot than in other types of photography. As already noted if you choose an aperture with the camera in Manual mode and adjust the shutter speed so the meter indicator is in the middle of the scale, then the result is the same as aperture priority would have done.

Dave
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TBH I try to keep ISO to my native ISO for landscapes as you will get maximum dynamic range at native ISO. Of course there are times when I don't/can't use native ISO such as the odd occasion I don't have my tripod, or I'm wanting to freeze the trees if it's windy.
 
I stopped using manual and switched to shutter-priority in 1977 when I bought a Canon AE1 to replace my FTb. I switched to aperture-priority in 1991 when I swapped from Canon MF to Nikon AF. I don't know why, it just seemed natural at the time. I set shutter speed and aperture manually when using flash but use TTL flash exposure. Other than that, it's rare for me to stray away from aperture priority.
 
Program Shift, if you have it, is a good starting place. Roll the wheel one way for more shutter priority and the other way for more aperture priority. And everything in between. I then go over to AP, SP or Manual if I'm going to dwell on a subject type.
 
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Good point Ianp5a. I sometimes use P mode - back wheel changes the aperture and the camera adjusts the shutter speed; front wheel vice versa.

Dave
 
Mostly AP but full manual for some situations.
 
Oh I remember automatic for the people :banana:

AP everytime for me except for the rare occasion I choose SP. I've never used full manual, but I've got a lot to learn.
 
My DSLR is the most expensive camera I have ever bought... actually.. it might be the ONLY camera I have ever actually 'bought'! (I've acquired most of them as 'junk' or gifts, or as swaps!)

Why on earth would I spend that sort of money, on a sophisticated computer controlled do-it-all for me wonder-box, to ignore it all, and try and use it like my old clock-work Zenit?!?!

If I want to make life hard for myself, I could just put a film in the Zenit, use that, and save a trip to the Gym into the bargain!

This 'Real Photographers Shoot in Manual' snobbery, boggles me, it really does.

Do you turn the AF off as well?

I rarely I use 'Manual' other than when I'm using old manual lenses the camera cant control the aperture on, or meter with, OR I am working in conditions where I know better than the camera what I want to do, and can make better settings to do that, than the computer-program in its 'brain' offers as its best guesses. And that's not very often. Because even then, most of the time, I can give the 'controller' a better clue for its 'best guess' using Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority semi-auto modes, and let the silicon bits worry about balancing the exposure for me.

Why turn 'off' all that 'expert' programming in the camera, and stop it suggesting exposure settings for you, to take three times as long to set the exact same settings 'manually', JUST so you feel like a 'Proper Photographer' pressing more buttons, and being able to say "I Use Manual!" Barmy, just Barmy, and little more than shear snobbery.

As to the Mjuii.. great little 35mm film camera. It was not a 'cheap' camera when it was new, either; it retailed for more than many entry level SLR's. It was the successor to the very successful Olympus XA series 35mm film cameras, introduced at a time when you didn't have to subscribe to fancy interchangeable lens camera systems, let alone more sophisticated still, Single-Lens-Reflex, system cameras, to consider yourself a 'proper' photographer.. you just had to care a bit about taking photos!

The original 'Clam-Shell' XA was actually a 'range-finder' camera; Non SLR cameras have a view-finder that looks through a separate lens to the one that takes the picture, and you would set the focus on them by looking at your subject, guessing how far away it was, then setting that distance on the focus control.. maybe getting a tape-measure out if you were getting a bit critical on the depth of focus at wider apertures.... OR you used a 'range finder' a little periscope device that was often an accessory that clipped on the hot-shoe, and you looked through that, twiddled a knob until the two images, from two separate ranging lenses in its view-finder were co-indent, and then read off the 'range', calculated by triangulation, on its scale, to set on the lens.

Olly XA had that 'in-built' and coupled to the lens, so you moved the lever to get focus, and then selected the aperture you wanted, it's 'coupled' meter then set the shutter speed for you, and you could dial in any 'compensation' you wanted via the ASA setting. It was a 'Pro-Grade' camera, much loved by candid ad street photographers, because it was also one of the smallest 35mm film cameras made; easy to use and very unobtrusive.

The 'consumer' level XA2, was slightly simplified for cost cutting, and lost the coupled range-finder, instead it was 'zone focus'; you selected an icon for 'near, middle or far subjects, and the Automatic Exposure selected an appropriate aperture and shutter speed; again compensation, if needed, could be dialled in via the ASA selector. That's the camera I ( actually have on my lap as I type! and) I have had since 1980, when, brand new, it was as expensive as Olympus's own rival 'entry level' OM10 SLR, which with a very good Zuiko lens, put 35mm 'quality' in your pocket, and made it as 'point and shoot' convenient as a 110 cartridge camera.

The Mjuii, came some years later, and added DX coding to save having to set the film speed, (and deny the potential to use film-speed setting to dial in exposure compensation); packed in a built in flash, where the XA's had a dedicated screw on item, and offered motored wind and rewind. It was very much more a 'consumer' camera; it wasn't as robust as the XA in my experience; but it was easy to use for the non enthusiast, and did deliver SLR rivalling quality in most situations. But yeah, it IS auto-everything, 'point and shoot'; that was the point of it;
and like the XA's it was small and discreet and a great 'candid' camera.

And it is a classic, putting that amount of 'automation', and giving the non-enthusiast masses that 'in-built' expert to make their settings for them; at a time when you either had to know a bit about what you were about to use a MUCH more 'manual' 35mm camera, whether range-finder or SLR, or had to put up with tiny frame, wobbly backing plate, 'instamatic' cartridge cameras, that often relied on small apertures and big DoF for focus and films exposure latitude and developing 'correction' in place of 'metering'!

I actually find it rather demeaning that because these high-end 'old' non SLR film cameras simply aren't SLR's that they are now often described as 'Lomo', lumped in with cheap chinese 'toy' cameras with plastic lenses, parabolic film traps and light-leaks, JUST because there aren't so many knobs to twiddle, and they are turning up for pennies in the charity & second hand shops!

BUT....Go for it!!!!

Stick a film in and join us 'proper' (Daft old sod) photographers over in F&C who still appreciate a bit of silver halide, and where 'manual' is often the only option; a viewfinder exposure meter often a luxury, and some-times even just a view-finder is a bit of a bonus! My 120 roll-film 'folder' makes do with a wire frame 'machine gun sight' framing square!!!! And I have to focus by guestimate or tape measure and 'meter' by f-16 sunny rule!..

Now if you'll just excuse me I just have to get the changing bag out to try and untangle a strip of Ilford B&W that's snapped in the Camera!!!

Remind me again, why I bought a Digital camera?

Oh, yeah, NOT to make life so chuffin hard for myself, wasn't it? I keep forgetting....Mind you, at least I have stopped stabbing myself in the eye with digi-compacts, trying to look through view-finders they don't have, when I'm handed one! Still not sure what they hand me telephones for though...... at least I think they are telephones... I cant tell.. they don't have a 'dial' to dial any-one on them! Maybe they expect me to telephone a REAL photographer who only shoots in Manual :)
 
It all depends on what subject and in what lighting conditions I am shooting.

#1 Normally manual exposure in tricky lighting conditions where the light meter may be confused and/or I am using ND gards to control the contrast ,

At a dawn shoot earlier this year. A three stop ND grad was used to control the contrast.
The photographer by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

#2 Where the shutter speed is important, either to stop motion or to blur motion (possibly just part of the subject, I will be in shutter priority mode, with some exposure compensation dialed in if need be.

One case is when shooting motor racing trackside where you want to freeze motion of the car but still show blurred wheels.
Practice in the wet. by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

#3 Aperture priority when I want to Isolate a subject from the background or have lots of DOF (this will be subject dependant), or shoooting hand held in very low light levels.
In very low light levels, and shooting hand held, I will usually shoot wide open and take what ever shutter speed I can get.

This was at a rehearsal for a classical music concert and most of the light was from battery operated musc lights (clipped to the performer music)
1/60 @ f2.8 (wide open) @ ISO 12,800 and F=150mm (300mm FOV eqivalent) - Hand held. The camera I was using has very effctiove image stabilisation in the body and a great auto ISO implentation.

A soloist by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

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Havn't shot full auto exposure mode or in P mode for a while.
I do use Auto ISO, if it is well implemented (but not when shooting fully manual).
Normall I use autofocus ulesss the camer/lens has problems focussing.
For just walking around it is usually aperture priority and "f8 and be there".

I like to capture "moments" and fiddleing with a camera is not condusive to that.
 
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Teflon-Mike said:
This 'Real Photographers Shoot in Manual' snobbery, boggles me, it really does.
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•
Manual or Priority…
These are just other tools in the box… no reason to turn this
into anything else than what they are. Tools. Use them.
 
It may be academic... (pun) my daughter started her photography a-Level this Autumn, after finishing her (its NOT an O-Level ANY-MORE, Dad) GCSE in the summer.
Almost astoundingly, in her O-sorry-GCSE, they hardly touched a camera, let alone a DSLR; large chunks of her course were devoted to 'photo-shop', and the few pictures they took were taken mostly with their camera-phones, and they were largely concentrating on what they could, in the confines of the class-room.... composition and style and critiquing other peoples work... due to Political Correctness gone MAD as far as I can tell!

(Listening to her teacher's grumbles about the 'job' at parents evening was a little depressing I have to say; Health and Safety Audits to let a child use a tripod! Or to take them outside into the play-ground to take a picture of a tree! My daughter actually did a lovely 'set' on her water-theme & to double up with 'reflections and form' of a wine-glass foutain....she wasn't allowed to submit it.... 'It might be construed as promoting alcohol' she was told!?!?!?!?! I asked whether her photo of a candle could be construed as promoting 'arson', but that was answered with a shrug and a mute 'probably!' However...)

Now, on the A-Level, the students are over 16, and they are allowed in an out of school.. and trusted with SLR's! But, the O-sorry-GCSE isn't an entry requirement for the A-Level curiously, so many of the students on her course haven't even covered the basic they did in that, and are now struggling, it seems, chucked in the deep-end, and expected to 'demonstrate full understanding of the camera controls'... which it seems is suggested to mean that they HAVE to use 'manual' mode, and from her reports, been making a bit of a hash of it, fretting over getting the exposure meter 'exactly' balanced in the middle, utterly unaware of what the knob they are twiddling to try and get it to stay there is actually doing! And spending lots and lots of time, to get the exact exposure the camera would set for them, to get blury pictures from too low a shutter or too little DoF or whatever from the wrong ISO, Aperture and Shutter settings to get that scientifically spot on exposure 'suggestion', and spending ten times as long to get it! BUT, 'Sir Says' we have to use 'manual' so they can see we can choose our own settings!

Seems a bit perverse to my way of thinking; ignoring the dial or button to set aperture priority or shutter priority or heaven forbid, even full 'auto', would be contrary to the mandate to 'demonstrate full understanding of the camera controls'.. they are 'controls' and 'settings' you can make are they not? So surely NOT using them is showing you DON'T fully understand the cameras controls and settings!

So it may' be something in the way photography is taught academically.. or it may be an utterly academic observation on my part... but still.
 
RichardTaylor said:
It all depends on what subject and in what lighting conditions I am shooting.

#1 Normally manual exposure in tricky lighting conditions where the light meter may be confused and/or I am using ND gards to control the contrast ,

At a dawn shoot earlier this year. A three stop ND grad was used to control the contrast.
The photographer by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

#2 Where the shutter speed is important, either to stop motion or to blur motion (possibly just part of the subject, I will be in shutter priority mode, with some exposure compensation dialed in if need be.

One case is when shooting motor racing trackside where you want to freeze motion of the car but still show blurred wheels.
Practice in the wet. by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

#3 Aperture priority when I want to Isolate a subject from the background or have lots of DOF (this will be subject dependant), or shoooting hand held in very low light levels.
In very low light levels, and shooting hand held, I will usually shoot wide open and take what ever shutter speed I can get.

This was at a rehearsal for a classical music concert and most of the light was from battery operated musc lights (clipped to the performer music)
1/60 @ f2.8 (wide open) @ ISO 12,800 and F=150mm (300mm FOV eqivalent) - Hand held. The camera I was using has very effctiove image stabilisation in the body and a great auto ISO implentation.

A soloist by Richard Taylor, on Flickr

-------------------
Havn't shot full auto exposure mode or in P mode for a while.
I do use Auto ISO, if it is well implemented (but not when shooting fully manual).
Normall I use autofocus ulesss the camer/lens has problems focussing.
For just walking around it is usually aperture priority and "f8 and be there".

I like to capture "moments" and fiddleing with a camera is not condusive to that.
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Lovely sunrise pic.
 
Probably 50/50 between Aperture priority and almost-manual (either manual SS or ISO depending on requirements & circumstances). Very rarely full manual though.
 
if it's in the air or fast moving i use manual but for most other things i use AP unless flash or studio lights are involved then it's back to manual

to be honest it's not something i concern myself with i probably don't use my camera to it's full potential anyway but i'm mostly happy with the results i get
 
Teflon-Mike said:
It may be academic... (pun) my daughter started her photography a-Level this Autumn, after finishing her (its NOT an O-Level ANY-MORE, Dad) GCSE in the summer...
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That is quite a depressing story but I'm sure that we can imagine how it came to this.

I have a family member who did a degree and they're a very good photographer and some of their shots are truly outstanding but sometimes they surprise me by saying "How did you do that?" and they have said that I know more about the technical side of it than the tutors. I don't believe that I do but maybe they weren't for whatever reason passing on all of their knowledge.

Overall I'm very pleased that they're a good photographer but I'm also surprised by the apparent gaps in their basic knowledge.
 
My normal setting is manual with auto iso. I use the others as and when they may better suit what I am photographing but I find manual makes me think about what I am doing. I know a lot of people recommend P mode but I haven't bothered to invest the time to understand it. On my 6D P mode seems glued to 100 ISO which is pretty limiting when the camera is good to very high ISO, hence allowing fast shutter speeds, for example.
 
Landscape shooter. Manual with the histogram live preview on and focussing in live view. Its slow, but it works so well to ensure quality of exposure and focussing.

I never use auto ISO. I had it once on by accident and it made a right mess of things.
 
In general use...95% aperture priority. Shooting motorsport...95% shutter priority. I only tend to delve into full manual if doing long exposures at night.

I love taking photos but I'm not particularly hung up on the technicalities of doing so (Auto ISO is a joy I wouldn't want to be without now). That approach has served me incredibly well in life, so I'm not going to change that now.
 
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