Beer Photography CC

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Name
Thomas
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PSX_20190806_214119.jpgI'm a landscape tog that's been experimenting with some studio lights for beverage photography. This is a composite of 3/4 exposures taken with one Godox SK400 light in a rectangular soft box with some extra diffusion for the bottle edges. Black perspex used for the base and a white background. CC very welcome, as brutally and as frank as needed ☺️ Thank you!
 
It's . . . workmanlike, nothing actually wrong with it but there's plenty of room for improvement.

I'm guessing that you did it the hard and time-consuming way - as a composite - simply because you only have one light, but could be wrong about that. Personally, although I use composites as often as I need to, I always try to get everything needed into one shot.

The extra diffusion wasn't in fact needed, what was needed was to position the softbox much closer and to have it slightly behind the bottle instead of slightly in front of it.

Here's a tutorial that may be helpful. I didn't take the shots myself, I just stood there being critical, but their approach was based on my advice and I think that they did a good job.
https://www.lencarta.com/studio-lig...uct-photography-workshop-part-4/#.VkCKTSsl-hE
 
Thanks for the reply Garry. Yes it is made up of 3/4 shots as I'm currently using the one light. The softbox was behind at about 30 degrees, it but could definitely have been closer. The highlights were quite harsh without the diffusion. I'll try bringing it closer on next attempt.

Not the most creative of set ups in terms of styling however want to get the technical aspects as solid as possible before experimenting. New to PS also so quite a learning curve. Happy to accept any further input from yourself for improvement.

Looking forward to checking out the tutorial also. Thanks.
 
I agree with Garry about it being a good start.
IMO, it needs much better focus/sharpness and more DOF.
Unless the setting is in-situ/environmental, I generally prefer the background and surface to be consistent... IMO this would look much better with a dark BG, and with the side highlights extended to the edges to provide separation. The white BG is making everything else feel a bit dim/dull to me. For the white BG I think it needs more light through the bottle and everything brought up a bit. Some of that could be a monitor difference, especially if yours isn't calibrated.
Your reflector for the lower label is just a bit too small/hard (or maybe just too bright). And you can see its' reflection in the bottom of the bottle... I would remove that.
You also needed a little more light in/through the bottom of the bottle. If the line at the top of the label is due to beer in the bottle, it should have been emptied. If it's due to a label on the back, the label should have been removed. Either would have let more light through the bottom and eliminated the hard line/transition.

I did a quick edit to kind of show you what I described; levels, dodge/burn, coloring, selective sharpening (oops, I missed the reflector in the reflection).

Untitled-2.jpg
 
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The highlights were quite harsh without the diffusion. I'll try bringing it closer on next attempt.
If the highlights are hard edged it's probably because the curved surface is seeing the edge of the modifier/reflector/softbox. Part of the point of moving it closer is so that light falloff causes the highlight to graduate away, before the edge of the modifier shows.
 
If the highlights are hard edged it's probably because the curved surface is seeing the edge of the modifier/reflector/softbox. Part of the point of moving it closer is so that light falloff causes the highlight to graduate away, before the edge of the modifier shows.
Yes, as I said earlier, the softbox is too far away. The tutorial that I linked to earlier gives a good indication of the correct distance and position of the softboxes, but there's a better tutorial - different type of subject but the same principle - that explains the principles involved, here https://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-blog/controlling-specular-reflections/#.VjzW6ysl-hE and the video below, showing the lighting of a wine bottle, may also help.

Glass isn't the easiest subject to photograph as a first attempt at studio lighting, but there are variations that are even less easy, for example the non-round whisky bottle in this video
 
Thanks both for the input. I had come across these videos in my research Garry but gave them another watch. Here's my latest attempt taking on board some of the feedback. Gave it a bit more production but still keen to get cc on the execution.
 
I think that these shots are a vast improvement.
A couple of small points - the "missing" water droplets on the edges of the top of the beer bottle jump out and hit me. The label doesn't reach the edge of the glass at the top. The piece of wood or whatever the bottle and glass are sitting on, with their false shadows, doesn't work for me. It isn't just the shadows, I'm not sure that it works to have a solid base with what is almost white space behind it.

But, I could perhaps have something more useful to say if you showed the various images without any post processing, it's virtually impossible to be helpful when images have been comped, let alone heavily retouched.
 
Cheers again Garry.

Ok, here are 3 of the composited images. Only WB & straightening adjustments made.

The label doesn't reach the edge of the glass at the top

Are you referring to the top right hand corner of the Beer label?

their false shadows, doesn't work for me. It isn't just the shadows, I'm not sure that it works to have a solid base with what is almost white space behind it.

Agreed, shadows weren't deliberate, more of a post production oversight. Same goes with the 'almost' white background.

Lagunitas-4.jpgLagunitas-2.jpgLagunitas.jpg
 
You got a deformed beer bottle! The label issue Garry mentioned (upper rt corner) looks like a cutout issue, but it's actually that the bottle isn't uniform and the label isn't straight. Normally, if you were working for the company you would get a selection of bottles and a selection of labels separate. Then you can pick the best bottles and place the labels as well as possible. Otherwise, there might be one bottle in a dozen that is ideal... if you're lucky.
Your cutouts along the neck have cut into the bottle where drops were selected along w/ the BG... looks very wrong. And smoke obscures what is behind it, it doesn't brighten it. It looks like you've applied it in screen mode which has made the reflection and other spots too bright... and I don't really understand the concept of the smoke.
Overall the lighting looks a bit under/dull to me... I think you need more of a chiaroscuro effect for a dark image, not just "dark." But it's hard for me to really say with the edits/blending that was done. I think if you had used only the two dark BG images, and done less, it could be a much more effective image.

The wine shot looks a lot better to me. I think the super shallow DOF is hurting the image and probably contributing to the lack of sharpness/focus. And I don't understand the concept/purpose of the wine splash in the glass. The top of the wine glass could use a little negative lighting along the right side where it's starting to wash out into the BG.
 
Right, I'm much closer to my own comfort zone now that I've seen images that are (almost) SOOC - this is what always needs to be shown if you want useful comments on the photography side of things, pp work hides the things that people need to see.

Beer bottle
Your light source - which in this case is a softbox - needs to be MUCH closer to the subject and also needs to be slightly behind, pointing forwards towards camera a bit. Doing that will create true diffused specular highlights (reflections of the light source that you can actually see through, to the subject beneath) and will also place those highlights where they should be, at the very edge of the bottle. Not only will this show the shape of the bottle in a much more attractive way, the light will also fall off far more quickly (in 1/4 of the fall off distance for every halving of the distance from the light source) it will also avoid making the edges of the label too bright, for the same reason - the inverse square law, which is what lighting is all about.

How close does the softbox need to be? as close as you can physically get it, something like 1/2" or thereabouts. It needs to be the very back edge of the softbox. The correct tool for this job is in fact a strip softbox and so you will probably need to mask off the surface of most of the softbox, where it is in front of the bottle, with black card or bin bags. This, together with a good lens hood, will prevent both flare and unwanted light going where it isn't wanted.

This is so important that it's impossible to get a well-lit image until you've got this bit right. And, for a shot as simple as this there's no reason for it not to be right. In fact, even if it was a far more complex shot, for example in a lifestyle setting with other things around it, theoretically preventing the softbox(es) from being placed in the right place(s) I would still light in in exactly this way and would then comp the bottle image into the rest of the scene. This is where comping really is necessary for this type of shot. You've used the comping process for the wrong reasons, i.e. you've done it because you only have the one light. You need a light each side, a light behind and a light for the label, ignoring the background and if you lit it correctly with the right amount of equipment then you would have achieved a better result much more easily.

Using brightfield lighting to create a backlight for the beer is a valid way of doing things but it needs to be controlled, to stop that horrible highlight on the top of the bottle cap - easily done by suspending a bit of black something-or-other above the top.

This should really be shot at f/16 (on a full frame camera, less on a cropped frame camera) to maximise the DOF.

Wine bottle and glass
Using just brightfield lighting for this hasn't really worked. Frankly, there's really nothing about this shot that has any real merit and it hasn't helped having those fake shadows, having whatever it is that the bottle is sitting on, especially with the front of it out of focus. You need an actual light on the label, and also on the embossed writing on the bottle (or just retouch it out but don't just leave it partly lit to distract the viewer) and, more difficult, you need the seal on the cork to be square to the label, which means moving it yourself, because even when the manufacturers provide a couple of cases for photography they're nearly always all wrong:)

Incidentally, we don't normally include just one glass with bottles of alcohol - a single glass suggests a lonely alcoholic, two glasses suggest company, romance etc.

And again, not really enough DOF
 
Thanks both for such detailed and frank feedback, all makes sense but I see there's a long way to go with attention to detail & execution. Things like the lack of DOF is obvious now it has been pointed out.

Hadn't even considered the bottles not being right although did clock the label not sitting straight, will have to pay closer eye when picking out bottles from now on. I will have to continue to comp until I purchase more lights (I have been learning via one light product tutorials on Youtube).

The correct tool for this job is in fact a strip softbox and so you will probably need to mask off the surface of most of the softbox, where it is in front of the bottle, with black card or bin bags. This, together with a good lens hood, will prevent both flare and unwanted light going where it isn't wanted.

I did in fact use a strip softbox, although admittedly nowhere near as close as you have described. Can you elaborate on masking off the softbox or link to an example? I can't picture this fully to put it into practice.

Frankly, there's really nothing about this shot that has any real merit

Back to the drawing board with this one!

The top of the wine glass could use a little negative lighting along the right side where it's starting to wash out into the BG.
Steven - do you mean something along the lines of holding a black card to the right of the glass?
 
I will have to continue to comp until I purchase more lights (I have been learning via one light product tutorials on Youtube).
Not sure that you'll gain much from those tutorials, you'll learn far more from people who have professional experience of using as many lights as it needs to get the shots in one capture.

I did in fact use a strip softbox, although admittedly nowhere near as close as you have described. Can you elaborate on masking off the softbox or link to an example? I can't picture this fully to put it into practice.
Well, try it that close and you'll see that it makes a massive difference:)
You can take any softbox and change its size or shape simply by covering up part of the front diffuser with any light-blocking material. In this case, just use black paper, Cinefoil / blackwrap or black plastic, leave just a narrow strip uncovered - say about 6" - and cover the rest up, holding it in place with plastic clamps or clothes pegs. This stops light going where you don't want it to go.

This is a technique that I've used a lot, but when I was working with Lencarta I didn't have to do it a lot because all of the equipment that I could possibly need was available. Because of that I don't think that I have any example photos of equipment that I've doctored.
 
and it hasn't helped having those fake shadows,
I suppose I could be wrong, but IDT the shadows were faked... I think they were caused by harder (narrower) side lighting from the left side illuminated composite image, and just missed during editing. I'm still seeing a 3 shot composite here...
I did in fact use a strip softbox, although admittedly nowhere near as close as you have described.
I think Garry and I are talking at cross purposes to an extent and it might be confusing things for you. Garry is describing how to create very linear/hard edged highlights, but which are also translucent (some color shows thorough). I was describing larger gradients like dark field backlighting creates. TBH, I'm not entirely certain which I would prefer w/o seeing both. I think the overall lighting/mood would make a difference there.

Regarding the DOF and sharpness... if this were an in-situ "environmental" type shot then shallow DOF can work; as long as it's not hurting the sharpness/detail of the subject where it's needed. Otherwise, for shots like this sharpness and detail are king.

I will have to continue to comp until I purchase more lights (I have been learning via one light product tutorials on Youtube).
You can certainly accomplish advanced lighting with one light and compositing. The problem with that IMO is that you have to be able to see the finished image in your mind. You have to see which parts of each composite image are usable, and which parts are missing requiring additional images be taken. And then you have to be able to blend them realistically... which can be a lot harder than it might seem. When you do it all in one take (or more of it anyway) you can see how things are working with a simple image review.
 
You can certainly accomplish advanced lighting with one light and compositing. The problem with that IMO is that you have to be able to see the finished image in your mind. You have to see which parts of each composite image are usable, and which parts are missing requiring additional images be taken. And then you have to be able to blend them realistically... which can be a lot harder than it might seem. When you do it all in one take (or more of it anyway) you can see how things are working with a simple image review.
Yes, but I think it goes beyond that. Comping has always been an essential part of creating top end images, and long before we had digital cameras and Photoshop we had to create the effects we wanted by highly skilled darkroom work and then cutting out the bits of print, gluing them on to the base print and re-photographing the comped image. This work required extremely high levels of skill, took an enormous amount of time and so cost a great deal of money and because of this it was only done when absolutely necessary. Fast forward to today, it's now far quicker and far easier but it still needs a fairly high level of skill and still takes a lot of time, so the right approach is to do everything possible in camera and to leave the comping work to what cannot be achieved at all (or to the required standard) in camera.

But you're using comping simply because you don't have enough lights, which is making it hard for you. There's also a lot of truth in the old saying that if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail:)

What you need to do is to get some more lights, with the right modifiers, and learn how light works. Some shots will still need a degree of comping, but relatively few of them will need much of it.

It reminds me of a small problem that we had on the farm last week - we needed to extricate a trailer that was almost impossible to get at. The only vehicle small enough to get in place, and that had enough steering lock, was the quad, which didn't have enough power to pull out the trailer in soft mud. The workaround was to tow the trailer with the quad and to tow the quad with my offroad car, and to use a snatch block attached to a tractor on the tow line to change the tow direction as needed. We did it, eventually and I thought we'd done well - but my son rightly pointed out that we'd needed to use 3 vehicles and 3 pretty skilled drivers to do a simple job that could have been done in 5 minutes if only we'd had the right tool - a crane!
 
How did you get the wine to "move" like that?
Trial and error and some compositing work. I think this tutorial covered it
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1UsYRmsoQ&t=137s


Early days for me with this and I'm not sure the result is up to much but was worth doing to learn what was going on.
The easiest way is to simply drop something with an irregular shape, like a metal nut, then take the shot.
Adding to this, the method shown in the video is perfectly valid, but only for a composited shot, because it's impossible to move the glass like that when the shot isn't a comp.
And of course the lighting shown in that video isn't helpful, compositional shots at the high end (advertising standard) are every bit as carefully and precisely lit as non-comps and in fact the principal raison d'être for comps is to enable each component part to be lit precisely and separately, where it's impossible to get the lighting perfect in a single shot. A lighting expert can tell of course, but that doesn't matter because experts on lighting aren't the target audience. . .
 
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