Beginner's camera

Wookie123

Wookie123

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Lukasz
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Hi guys,

I wanted to ask you about what camera to choose.

I want a camera, I don't care about shooting videos and all that jazz. I would like to print out the pictures in A3 format. I kinda don't want to spend too much time playing in lightroom or whatever 3rd party program. I want to spend about 200 quid (second hand) since I won't be a photographer, I just want decent pictures I could put on the wall although I don't have a problem to add a bit if it's really worth.
  1. What I found is 400D that's 89 quid and I wanted to add some nice glass for it.
  2. There's also 450D at 180 quid with EF-S 18-55mm IS f/3.5-5.6.
  3. Another choice is D3200 but at 170 quid body only. Don't know if that's worth.
Any advice would be appreciated : )
 
Hi,

Have you used DSLR's or similar cameras before? If not it may be worth doing some research and thinking about what you want to photograph and how before jumping in. Other than that... I have A3 prints made with older cameras so any of the ones you've listed would be ok for shooting in decent light but rather than the 18-55mm f3.5 to 5.6 I'd go for a Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 or Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 if you can get one in budget.

Another way to go would be with a mirrorless camera and to be honest that's the way I'd go as they're smaller and lighter than DSLR's and therefore possibly more likely to be taken out with you and used. You may find an older mirrorless camera and lens in budget so this possibility might be one to think about.
 
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I was very dissapointed with some compacts I used. I know what you mean by taking with me, I know the pain ; ) But I am looking for a camera for trips and weekends out that can take nice pictures. That's the main goal. Thanks for mentioning the mirrorless cameras I actually had no idea they exist ;)
 
You might well find an Olympus EPL or Panasonic mirrorless within budget. Also consider the Canon G10/11/12/13 series of compacts: they have a larger than typical sensor and are true professional cameras. And look at the Nikon 1 series of interchangeable lens mirrorless cameras.
 
Wookie123 said:
I was very dissapointed with some compacts I used. I know what you mean by taking with me, I know the pain ; ) But I am looking for a camera for trips and weekends out that can take nice pictures. That's the main goal. Thanks for mentioning the mirrorless cameras I actually had no idea they exist ;)
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I think it's worth doing some Googling and reading up on the various options. I moved from DSLR's to mirrorless cameras some time ago and although brand new mirrorless cameras and lenses tend to be dearer than entry level DSLR's the used prices are more reasonable and you could probably get an older model mirrorless camera and lens within budget. These mirrorless cameras don't have optical viewfinders and instead have electronic viewfinders or some don't have viewfinders at all and just have the back screen so that's another thing to think about, would you be happy shooting with just the back screen or would you prefer a viewfinder. I'd guess that even early mirrorless cameras will possibly/probably give much better image quality than the compacts you've used and would very possibly rival the DSLR's you've listed.
 
Thanks so much ! They look interesting. I don't understand though why they'd have a worse quality than dslrs. It's the same thing basically. I found EPL5 for 140 quid which is quite alright. And the size is definitely a plus.
 
Wookie123 said:
Thanks so much ! They look interesting. I don't understand though why they'd have a worse quality than dslrs. It's the same thing basically. I found EPL5 for 140 quid which is quite alright. And the size is definitely a plus.
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They're not necessarily worse than DSLR's... these cameras have a slightly smaller image chip than the DSLR's you're looking at and in cameras the bigger the imaging chip the better, usually, but they're also maybe slightly newer and newer is often better so maybe things even out.

Just as an example I took this shot with a camera that can be picked up today for waaaay under £100 and possibly nearer £50. I paid £15 for the lens, it's an old manual focus film era lens and I mounted it on the camera via an adapter that cost £10 making this little package worth about £100 and something I wouldn't and don't hesitate to take out and use and not worry if it gets dirty or wet or dropped or I get mugged for it. I've taken thousands of shots with this (almost) disposable little camera. You can get a nice used modern auto focus lens for something between £50 and £150.

 
Wookie123 said:
Ok, I see the catch. The prices for the lenses are riddiculous :D
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Some of the new lenses are expensive but there's a healthy trade in used kit going on. Most of my lenses were bought used, you can get a bog standard zoom lens (similar to that 18-55mm f3.5-5.6) for less than £100 and possibly close to £60 or you can get a prime lens (fixed focal length and often better quality) for £100 to £150. Specifically a 14mm f2.5 or 25mm f1.8.
 
Wookie123 said:
These colors are awesome !
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The colours are cheap :D but manual focus lenses aren't for everyone. You obviously have to have the time to focus manually before your subject gets bored and walks away. But for landscape and other static stuff it is a realistic option.

I took this with the same camera but the lens was more expensive at £60.



These shots were taken with a Panasonic G1 which is old and cheap now :D The following were taken with a Panasonic GF1 which is a similar camera but it doesn't have a viewfinder, just the back screen. To be honest night time shooting is when these cameras are at their worst but the results are still pretty good.

Night time shots from Bruges...






Good luck researching and choosing :D
 
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Great stuff... but I think you should think about what you want to photograph and in what lighting as the subject and how you're going to capture it with enough quality for a good A3 print could well influence the kit you should be looking at, both camera and lenses.
 
I was thinking about getting Fuji E-X1, but the prices of the lenses are astronomical. I think I will go with the smaller sensor with Olympus E-PL5 and 20 mm panasonic lens. Hopefully it'll be alright : )

Thanks again !
 
Just so you know...

The Panasonic 20mm f1.7 is relatively rather slow to focus but this may not be an issue for you. Other that that this lens can cause noise banding at high ISO's. I don't know if you'll see it on the Olympus but I've definitely seen it when using the 20mm on my newer Panasonic cameras. If this is a concern you might want to do some testing and note what ISO it kicks in at and stay below that setting if possible.

Good luck with it :D
 
I've been using the Mu43 system for a number of years and it can be a great way into photography. It's well supported, great specific forums and you can start cheap and grow your system to fit your needs.

I've "managed" to get by with my Panasonic G3, Panasonic 14-45mm (great kit lens) and Panasonic 20mm 1.7. Just about to list this lot BTW. You could pick up a G3 £80-90 (depending on what extras it has) 14-45mm again £80ish so for £160-170 you could have a decent kit. The 20mm usually goes for £150-170.

G3 is a great camera fully articulating touch screen, plus EVF which is a godsend in bright light, pop up flash, decent controls and menus, plus it has an Ai button that turns it into a point and shoot,. Just hit the Ai button, point and shoot, this can be great if you dont want to fiddle with settings or are in a hurry. There are some real bargains to be had with older Mu43 bodies. The 14-45mm is a pretty good kit lens, compact, lightweight and has OIS too. The 20mm is a stellar performer, as said can hunt a little in low light. It's tiny, fast and produces some great images.

Be careful with Mu43 bodies with regards to image stabilisation. Most of the higher end Olympus bodies have IBIS (in body image stabilisation) the cheaper/older ones might not. Only the latest GX7, GX8 and GX80/85 have IBIS. No Olympus lens have OIS (optical image stabilisation) Most Panasonic lenses do. Image stabilisation can help eliminate camera shake. On shorter focal lengthens this tends not to be an issue, but longer lenses any movement is magnified. Using faster shutter speeds, wider apertures, higher ISO, tripods can help with this.
 
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I think I'd be tempted by a Sony RX100 mk1 with your requirements. Yes it's a compact but it has a decent size sensor and a great lens. A3 prints will be no issue whatsoever. Can't help thinking that DSLR's or mirrorless systems offer a level of complication that you don't really need going by your original post.
 
I'm not sure that complication is an issue. All of these cameras have green square modes and indeed higher end compacts have most of the options and features of the larger mirrorless cameras the only differences being that the compact camera features are a little more fiddly and long winded to access, you can't change the lens and the final image quality isn't as good. Actual complication wise though, I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, IMO. All can be used in green square, prog, ap, tv, manual or any of the other bells and whistles modes.
 
I used dslr before and I know that more control means better pictures (ok you might argue that auto does 99% of the job done, but I still like playing with the exposure and all that jazz).

Ok, I wrote to the sales and it seems that the panasonic 20mm lens does not fit to the e-pl5. That's interesting since people used that lens on that camera. I don't understand.
 
Wookie123 said:
I used dslr before and I know that more control means better pictures (ok you might argue that auto does 99% of the job done, but I still like playing with the exposure and all that jazz).

Ok, I wrote to the sales and it seems that the panasonic 20mm lens does not fit to the e-pl5. That's interesting since people used that lens on that camera. I don't understand.
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Mu43 mount is a standard. If both body and lens are Mu43 there should not be an issue.
 
That lens is the MFT (micro four thirds) 20mm f1.7 and will fit any MFT camera. Before MFT came along there was Four Thirds and that's a different system.

PS.
Save yourself £10 and buy one from Ffordes, they have two in stock at that price.

http://www.ffordes.com/category/Lenses/Micro_4/3rds
 
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You're actually right. People are saying it's not legit on the internet. Thanks !
 
You can get a used canon 500d or 550d for a couple of hundred quid if you look around.......I think they are great cameras.
 
Not too keen on the idea of these myself as it just looks like a repackaged compact with a tiny sensor and questionable image quality and after reading threads on here about Fuji's attitude to faulty cameras I don't know if I'd recommend them to anyone.
 
I have been bowled over with the build standard of Fuji, the quality of their images, and for me, the actual joy in using mine compared to my Canon gear. No camera is perfect, and your particular experience needs to be balanced by those that have had the complete oposite.
 
No camera is perfect but there may just be some potential rotten eggs out there too.

I currently own Panasonic and Sony cameras and I wouldn't give an unreserved recommendation for the newer Panasonic cameras and in fact I'd advise that anyone interested should proceed with caution due to the shutter shock issue and my own loathing of the field sequential evf technology. My first digital camera was a Fuji but after reading the XF1 thread if interested in buying any new model I'd give it a few months until the internet geeks have had a chance to see if there are any issues. The way they've acted over the XF1 seems rather shameful, the internet does seem to be a little too awash with bad experiences for this to be an instance of overblown internet panic.
 
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woof woof said:
No camera is perfect but there may just be some potential rotten eggs out there too.

I currently own Panasonic and Sony cameras and I wouldn't give an unreserved recommendation for the newer Panasonic cameras and in fact I'd advise that anyone interested should proceed with caution due to the shutter shock issue and my own loathing of the field sequential evf technology. My first digital camera was a Fuji but after reading the XF1 thread if interested in buying any new model I'd give it a few months until the internet geeks have had a chance to see if there are any issues. The way they've acted over the XF1 seems rather shameful, the internet does seem to be a little too awash with bad experiences for this to be an instance of overblown internet panic.
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I'm not going to argue with you Alan, but my experience of Fuji, and that of a number owners has only been very good. I did in fact recommend the the X30, which by all accounts has very good reviews and is very popular. I also shoot Canon (have done since the birth of the EOS film range) and currently couldn't give up my 6D and L lenses for portraiture and landscape, but the 7D2 and long lenses are likely to be replaced by an X-T2 very shortly. Take from that what you will.
 
I'm not arguing either just pointing out that lemons do exist and advising caution and research before buying anything. I think that the measure of a company is how they act when there's a problem and maybe Fuji haven't exactly set the customer satisfaction bar high at least with the XF1 but this is probably all academic as the op has I think made a choice.
 
Hi, just to conclude, maybe someone will check this thread. I went for e-pl5 Olympus that I got for 150 plus sigma 19mm 2.8 that I got for 90. Slightly above the budget but I really like how it's small so I actually take the camera everywhere. Especially for mountains trips. I'm actually changing the lens to pana 20mm 1.7 to have it even more compact. In the meantime I looked at some reviews and followed the scene and I think that after a year if I still take pictures I'd buy e-m5 mk ii or e-m10 mk ii. And then if I really feel like the astro stuff in planning to do looks terrible, I'd buy a second camera just for that. But I saw some pictures from em10 and they do look awesome.


I think that what's important is the eye not the camera itself. It'll take years for the camera I have to start limiting me. I attach some pictures from last weekend :)

https://flic.kr/p/PbWTg5
https://flic.kr/p/Pmn26q
https://flic.kr/p/Pev1mk
 
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I'd go for whatever mirrorless you like but invest in glass. Always the glass....
 
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