Body upgrade Canon 1div or 7Dii?

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Stu
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Hi guys, I shoot mainly wildlife and a fair few birds.I wouldn't call myself much more than a novice ,but that said I'm pretty serious about trying to get the best image quality I can. My upgrade path has started already and I chose a 300F2.8is as my primary lens,I also own a 2Xiii extender.simply put a 500/4 is out of reach financially I'm using a 550D at this time and am getting ever closer to a new or secondhand body purchase. I love my little 550 it's been a cracking start for me into digital slr's but I don't think it has the focusing speed(maybe even accuracy of the cameras above. I've trawled the web for hours pondering this choice blighty oft has poor light so I guess iso performance is of some importance in this choice. I'm in reasonable shape so weight difference between bodies isn't a factor for me. Coming back to the higher iso performace I seem to find myself often pushing iso to pull my shutter speeds up,it's part of the reason I chose such a fast tele lens. I'm also slightly concerned that a couple of folks whom I have never spoken too,but whom i've seen plenty of images from(and respect their ability/'s) have mentioned that the 7Dii is great in good light but they are not so happy in not so clement conditions. It's obvious that either camera will be a fantastic upgrade(the 1dx is unobtainable financially),but spillting them for me is very difficult,I keep swaying back from one to the other as there are pros and cons to both one new with warranty( but with some early niggles that are scary for me personally i'm not hugely confident in my own abilities) one completely proven... denser sensor on one plausibly putting more pixels on the beastie in focal length limited situations possibly better high iso performance on the other. I don't really understand the real world implications of the differences between the 1.3 and 1,6 crop sensors in said FLL situations is has to be said. I'm also curious as to which would lock focus the quickest on said lens especially with a converter in the loop.Yes I do realize this is a fairly big jump and I will have to get me 'ead down and graft at getting to know the new body and have much practice to do,but i'm looking for tools to grow into almost

I think I have nailed it down now to these two specific bodies,if I simply cannot afford then I guess this choice might be 1Diii or 7d,but let's be optimistic and keep it between the two in the thread title for the mo please,i'm pretty sure i'll get there,i'm a stubborn old sod when I really want something.

Thanks for reading and for any replies in advance

take care

Stu
 
I went from a 550d to a 7d mk2 and so far no regrets. I do push the iso and so far no problems up to 2000. The mk2 had a learning curve as it far more customizable than the 550d. So one vote for the mk2
 
Either body is going to be a significant upgrade from your current one. The 1D MkIV has been around for a while and generally has a pretty good reputation for reliability and performance. The build quality is, as with all Canon's 1 Series cameras, very good and there is something about holding a 1 Series camera that just feels right. Bodies fitted with a grip don't seem to quite have the same feel. This is just my opinion however.

The 1DMkIV ISO limit pretty much runs out at around 2000-2500 from my usage with it. I should stress here that my opinions on these cameras are from my use of them for my personal photography and the expectations that I have for it. I’m sure that the camera will perform at higher ISO but I always felt that above 2500 there was too much loss of detail for my needs.

The 7D MkII divides opinion somewhat. Some people think its great, others think its good in parts but not in others. There were quite a few unhappy photographers when the camera first came out when some seemed to have focus issues. To a certain extent that seems to have gone away a bit.

From my use of the MkII the upper limit for wildlife is around ISO 1600, maybe 2000 at a push. Again this is my view on what I find acceptable. The camera has a great deal going for it in terms of its AF system and the ability to configure the camera to your own requirements. Much more than the 1D MkIV had available, and in some aspects more that the 1DX.

I feel the camera balances better with a grip on it and makes vertical shooting much easier, with the added bonus of holding 2 batteries which the camera uses together when fitted.

I find the MkII quite heavy on battery use, but will depend on how much you 'chimp' for example as to how many shots you get from a battery. The battery in the 1D MkIV gave a lot more images for a charge.

I bought a MkII as a back up to my 1DX, trading in a 5D3 for it, and, after a few months of using it I still am not sure that I did the right thing.

I have found the MkII to be more difficult to get the best out of than either my 5D3 or my 1DX. I’ve had images that I have been really happy with but I have also used it in certain circumstances and been underwhelmed by it. That may be down to the way I am setting it up and that’s still an ongoing process for me.

If you read the 7D MkII thread you will see plenty of comments, mainly praising the camera but not always.

I use the MkII in good light only. When the ISO start to head towards 1600+ then I use my 1DX. I’m fortunate that I have that option.

I very much doubt that you would regret buying the MkII, and if I had to choose between the 1D MkIV and the 7D MkII I still think that I would take the MkII. Be prepared however to put some effort into getting the best out of the camera. If you just switch it on and expect brilliant images in all circumstances you might be slightly disappointed.

Hope that helps
 
I've got a 5D3 as my main body and now have a 7D2 as backup and I'm more than happy with it for birds, wildlife and aircraft shots. Also for general shots with shorter lenses, the 24-70 f2.8L II is fantastic with it and the 18-135 STM is great for video with it. The only type of shot I'm not really happy with is macro when using my 100 f2.8L but I usually use my 5D3 for macro anyway. I've been really happy with my 7D2 and have got some fabulous shots from it. I recently added a 100-400 L II to my lens collection and the 7D2 is totally outstanding with it, that's the lens I usually use for birds and wildlife and that is a brilliant combination. Compared to the 550D I used to have the improvement of the 7D2 is massive and that would get my vote. I had a 1D3 for a while and the 7D2 knocks spots off that.
 
I've got a 5D3 as my main body and now have a 7D2 as backup and I'm more than happy with it for birds, wildlife and aircraft shots. Also for general shots with shorter lenses, the 24-70 f2.8L II is fantastic with it and the 18-135 STM is great for video with it. The only type of shot I'm not really happy with is macro when using my 100 f2.8L but I usually use my 5D3 for macro anyway. I've been really happy with my 7D2 and have got some fabulous shots from it. I recently added a 100-400 L II to my lens collection and the 7D2 is totally outstanding with it, that's the lens I usually use for birds and wildlife and that is a brilliant combination. Compared to the 550D I used to have the improvement of the 7D2 is massive and that would get my vote. I had a 1D3 for a while and the 7D2 knocks spots off that.

I'm not convinced a 7d2 knocks spots off a 1d3. Yes the focus system is better and you can crop further, but the 1d3 is still a very capable camera. I wouldn't pit it against a 1d4, but it's no slouch.
 
I'm not convinced a 7d2 knocks spots off a 1d3. Yes the focus system is better and you can crop further, but the 1d3 is still a very capable camera. I wouldn't pit it against a 1d4, but it's no slouch.

No, I'm not convinced about that either. The MkII has several advantages over the 1D MkIII & MkIV but the image quality from those cameras was very good. Even going back as far as the 1D MkIIN image quality was very good.

The 7D fights its corner with other advantages. Overall a better camera but until the 5D3/1DX came along the MkIV was Canons best body and it still performs. The 5D3 and 1DX were a big step up for Canon. Technology marches on but in my view its the 5D3 and 1DX that has moved ultimate image quality over a wide range of ISO on the most.

I'm really hoping that some of the settings that Joe Turner is using will help me get the rest out of the MkII that I feel that it is lacking. Extremely good value/performance for money, but it depends on your viewpoint as to how good it ultimately is.
 
I'm with Gary and Gary on this one. I've had 1DMkII's, 1DMkIII's, 1DMkIV's, 1DsMkIII and have two 1Dx's and a 5DMkIII....they're all very capable and just get on with with the job but my 7DMkII seems to need a lot of coaxing despite all it's advanced features.

Bob
 
Thats a stunner Gary! 1DMkIIN?
I too thought long and hard about which to choose, and eventually went for the 1DIV.
Even though the 7DII would have been cheaper, have newer technology and offer further reach, I just think 1D bodies suit me perfectly (big hands/better balance etc)
If you're willing to buy grey, a 7D2 can now be picked up for under £900, with a grip and 2nd battery the price will be very similar to a good used 1D IV (i paid £1300 for a very good cond one with under 100K shots)
I don't think you'll be disappointed whichever you go for!
 
Thats a stunner Gary! 1DMkIIN?
I too thought long and hard about which to choose, and eventually went for the 1DIV.
Even though the 7DII would have been cheaper, have newer technology and offer further reach, I just think 1D bodies suit me perfectly (big hands/better balance etc)
If you're willing to buy grey, a 7D2 can now be picked up for under £900, with a grip and 2nd battery the price will be very similar to a good used 1D IV (i paid £1300 for a very good cond one with under 100K shots)
I don't think you'll be disappointed whichever you go for!

Yes Carlo MkIIN and 300 f4
 
If you look, a 1D Mark III can be had relatively cheaply on eBay at the moment. I saw one today that failed to secure the opening bid of £400! One of these might be worth a go!
 
If you look bbc at the 7d mk2 owners thread then there's a real world post about birds and it may help with your decision. If you go with a mk2 then also down load the af pdf from canon it will help understanding the af system
 
I went from a 550d to a 7d mk2 and so far no regrets. I do push the iso and so far no problems up to 2000. The mk2 had a learning curve as it far more customizable than the 550d. So one vote for the mk2
Thanks buddy can I have your first name please?. Thanks especially for the iso figure you find cool to work with I'm very grateful for this facet of your post.

take care Waves

Stu
 
Either body is going to be a significant upgrade from your current one. The 1D MkIV has been around for a while and generally has a pretty good reputation for reliability and performance. The build quality is, as with all Canon's 1 Series cameras, very good and there is something about holding a 1 Series camera that just feels right. Bodies fitted with a grip don't seem to quite have the same feel. This is just my opinion however.

The 1DMkIV ISO limit pretty much runs out at around 2000-2500 from my usage with it. I should stress here that my opinions on these cameras are from my use of them for my personal photography and the expectations that I have for it. I’m sure that the camera will perform at higher ISO but I always felt that above 2500 there was too much loss of detail for my needs.

The 7D MkII divides opinion somewhat. Some people think its great, others think its good in parts but not in others. There were quite a few unhappy photographers when the camera first came out when some seemed to have focus issues. To a certain extent that seems to have gone away a bit.

From my use of the MkII the upper limit for wildlife is around ISO 1600, maybe 2000 at a push. Again this is my view on what I find acceptable. The camera has a great deal going for it in terms of its AF system and the ability to configure the camera to your own requirements. Much more than the 1D MkIV had available, and in some aspects more that the 1DX.

I feel the camera balances better with a grip on it and makes vertical shooting much easier, with the added bonus of holding 2 batteries which the camera uses together when fitted.

I find the MkII quite heavy on battery use, but will depend on how much you 'chimp' for example as to how many shots you get from a battery. The battery in the 1D MkIV gave a lot more images for a charge.

I bought a MkII as a back up to my 1DX, trading in a 5D3 for it, and, after a few months of using it I still am not sure that I did the right thing.

I have found the MkII to be more difficult to get the best out of than either my 5D3 or my 1DX. I’ve had images that I have been really happy with but I have also used it in certain circumstances and been underwhelmed by it. That may be down to the way I am setting it up and that’s still an ongoing process for me.

If you read the 7D MkII thread you will see plenty of comments, mainly praising the camera but not always.

I use the MkII in good light only. When the ISO start to head towards 1600+ then I use my 1DX. I’m fortunate that I have that option.

I very much doubt that you would regret buying the MkII, and if I had to choose between the 1D MkIV and the 7D MkII I still think that I would take the MkII. Be prepared however to put some effort into getting the best out of the camera. If you just switch it on and expect brilliant images in all circumstances you might be slightly disappointed.

Hope that helps

Gary/s Bob et al please forgive,it's heartwarming to have so many give me their time to try and help me get through this,I am half way through my reply to Gaz,but have to sleep work starts to early for me tomorrow and I feel guilty as hell that i'm not going to be able to thank you all and reply in the way I feel I should to such kindness.

So thank you all, each and every one, for your thoughts,life is so damn busy my most humble apologies

Gaz for the above a special cheers mate,i'll explain you'll be embarased hey ho, i'm just so grateful mate and also feel a bit guilty I was out trying to shoot swallows,got closer but no keepers,just the best way to teach the muscle memory to get the camera mounted to eye has to be a swallow though,

must sleep thanks again all

Stu
 
Gary/s Bob et al please forgive,it's heartwarming to have so many give me their time to try and help me get through this,I am half way through my reply to Gaz,but have to sleep work starts to early for me tomorrow and I feel guilty as hell that i'm not going to be able to thank you all and reply in the way I feel I should to such kindness.

So thank you all, each and every one, for your thoughts,life is so damn busy my most humble apologies

Gaz for the above a special cheers mate,i'll explain you'll be embarased hey ho, i'm just so grateful mate and also feel a bit guilty I was out trying to shoot swallows,got closer but no keepers,just the best way to teach the muscle memory to get the camera mounted to eye has to be a swallow though,

must sleep thanks again all

Stu

Don't worry about apologies Stu. Reply when you get the time. You will find more positive than negative comments on the camera, but i do know people who have sold theirs on so its only fair that you get the full picture. One thing that the MkII doesn't seem to tolerate, especially as the ISO gets higher, is underexposure. On my 5D3 and 1DX i often underexposed slightly if I was a little short of shutter speed with no adverse effect. The MkII needs good exposure to get the very best out of it.

As I said I have had images that I'm very happy, some of which i have attached.

Chough

Linnet

Dunnock

Nuthatch

Red Kite

Red Kite
 
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Those shot are great Gary. We're the Kites at a feeding station?
 
Either body is going to be a significant upgrade from your current one. The 1D MkIV has been around for a while and generally has a pretty good reputation for reliability and performance. The build quality is, as with all Canon's 1 Series cameras, very good and there is something about holding a 1 Series camera that just feels right. Bodies fitted with a grip don't seem to quite have the same feel. This is just my opinion however.

The 1DMkIV ISO limit pretty much runs out at around 2000-2500 from my usage with it. I should stress here that my opinions on these cameras are from my use of them for my personal photography and the expectations that I have for it. I’m sure that the camera will perform at higher ISO but I always felt that above 2500 there was too much loss of detail for my needs.

The 7D MkII divides opinion somewhat. Some people think its great, others think its good in parts but not in others. There were quite a few unhappy photographers when the camera first came out when some seemed to have focus issues. To a certain extent that seems to have gone away a bit.

From my use of the MkII the upper limit for wildlife is around ISO 1600, maybe 2000 at a push. Again this is my view on what I find acceptable. The camera has a great deal going for it in terms of its AF system and the ability to configure the camera to your own requirements. Much more than the 1D MkIV had available, and in some aspects more that the 1DX.

I feel the camera balances better with a grip on it and makes vertical shooting much easier, with the added bonus of holding 2 batteries which the camera uses together when fitted.

I find the MkII quite heavy on battery use, but will depend on how much you 'chimp' for example as to how many shots you get from a battery. The battery in the 1D MkIV gave a lot more images for a charge.

I bought a MkII as a back up to my 1DX, trading in a 5D3 for it, and, after a few months of using it I still am not sure that I did the right thing.

I have found the MkII to be more difficult to get the best out of than either my 5D3 or my 1DX. I’ve had images that I have been really happy with but I have also used it in certain circumstances and been underwhelmed by it. That may be down to the way I am setting it up and that’s still an ongoing process for me.

If you read the 7D MkII thread you will see plenty of comments, mainly praising the camera but not always.

I use the MkII in good light only. When the ISO start to head towards 1600+ then I use my 1DX. I’m fortunate that I have that option.

I very much doubt that you would regret buying the MkII, and if I had to choose between the 1D MkIV and the 7D MkII I still think that I would take the MkII. Be prepared however to put some effort into getting the best out of the camera. If you just switch it on and expect brilliant images in all circumstances you might be slightly disappointed.

Hope that helps

Thanks for the kindness again Gaz(replying to the second post ,ahh mate you really do take some wonderful images. I simply couldn't not apologise Gaz,I guess i'm old and still believe in being polite to folks web or no stranger or no,it matters not,plus there is genuine appreciation for the help given mate).

Here's what I was writing to you last night ;):

Ruddy 'eck Gaz,you really can't qualify that post and the time taken to a humble sod like me with "hope that helps".Ahh buddy so kind just So So kind.

Gaz let me a bit straight with you and by god I hope this isn't too off putting:D. You are one of those guys referred to in my opening post,I did say i've been lurking a while and yes I know what you sold for the 7Dii I believe humbly I got why you made the choice and also why you are still unsure.,Yes I'm also aware of you still questing and your and Joe Turners conversations re his recent review. While I qualify myself as simply in no mans land regarding the quality of image i produce,(ha the joy i nearly got a swallow inflight today,but hey I didn't and damn well know it but I got closer to what i want...all good),I would hope after all this time of reading and study i'm able to be influenced by a guy whose opinion I value. the simple reason I value that opinion ie yours is because i've seen the images you produce mate,Simply put ,I like what you do dude,your images have inspired me a goodly while now,plus the nature of your posts:,you have taken a very balanced approach to the 7Dii in my eyes and even though you are not completely happy are still questing,again the attitude is inspiring,.so before I go much further :rolleyes: a monster thanks for the above.

Gaz I guess the biggest facet of why this isn't a straight 7Dii choice,(it almost should be if I rule out the 1DX) is because of these niggles you speak of. plus in particular where the cut off point is regarding higher iso and image quality,cheers for including your thoughts on this. I have read 7Dii threads from when the camera was released,on various fora,pages and pages of it.I'm aware that a few folks seem to have genuine problem body's and that also many more would fall into a category where I would class myself.That is basically this is a far more complex camera and one needs to study a bit to get really in touch with what it's capabilities are,hence some of the focus issues might be simple user error. Gaz it's a big step up (either camera ) for someone like me with little experience of higher end bodies.I'm full of self doubt and I've noted that across the fora there are folks like you and Bob,skillfull experienced togs whom are still not completely happy,but are still perservering. I can see why too, as you have so graphically illustrated with the set of pictures starting with the chough. the camera is no slough and is very capable of taking some cracking shots.

Digressing slightly Bob (canon Bob) thank you , in your earlier post could seem to have echoed Gaz's thoughts,would you be so kind as to elucidate on what you mean by coaxing please,could I also ask you where you feel happy shooting iso wise,ie what is the highest iso you would use and feel happy with,actually for both cameras would be wonderful,if you don't mind.thanks so much for your help in this aswell!

Gaz the opinions of you guys with more experience, and that I have some familiarity with your work/pictures, is exactly why i posted,I know you have been at pains to point out this is your personal opinion but that is exactly what I'm after. For sure I don't have the experience you do,so being able to feed off someone with that knowledge is incredibly helpful,especially where I can almost qualify it from your images

I find myself consistently pushing the iso when i'm out, say a dull day or late in the day when many animals here start to appear,again lack of experience means I can't really know whether I'm just being unrealistic in my expectations of what to expect from my 550 or for the new body persay. But as a practical guy I'm starting to become aware that either the light is simply too poor for a given shot,ie shutter speed to low to freeze movement or i'm questing for better performance in the "new "body iso wise.Sure, in an ideal world blighty would be a bright sunny place,but it isn't so i'm trying to evaluate,doing so without experience is no easy thing.

My second biggest problem is speed of focus,but I'm fairly confident either of my choices will rock my world here. Gaz have you used extenders at all with these above bodies,do you have an opinion to share with how they compare speed wise?

Finally,no I don't expect any new camera to suddenly make me take brilliant images,there are many facets I need to address in my own skill set and there will be a learning curve to address with the camera. I suppose I've just got to that stage where I feel for certain tasks i'm starting to ask too much from my little 550D. I'll always hold my hand up that I have failings no worries there,that said I think there is more to be had and a slightly more high end/ powerful camera will give me something I can't obtain at the moment. I suppose,I'm convinced just a more advanced focus system will be huge,but hey I may as well dig into the other facets aswell before spending my pennies. I suspect if I get this purchase right i'll be carrying it for a good while

Thanks so much Gaz,it's a big deal to me this,hence me labouring to show you why your time and wisdom is appeciated
take care
Stu.
 
I've got a 5D3 as my main body and now have a 7D2 as backup and I'm more than happy with it for birds, wildlife and aircraft shots. Also for general shots with shorter lenses, the 24-70 f2.8L II is fantastic with it and the 18-135 STM is great for video with it. The only type of shot I'm not really happy with is macro when using my 100 f2.8L but I usually use my 5D3 for macro anyway. I've been really happy with my 7D2 and have got some fabulous shots from it. I recently added a 100-400 L II to my lens collection and the 7D2 is totally outstanding with it, that's the lens I usually use for birds and wildlife and that is a brilliant combination. Compared to the 550D I used to have the improvement of the 7D2 is massive and that would get my vote. I had a 1D3 for a while and the 7D2 knocks spots off that.

Hey Stoo thanks for the help,could you qualify why you are not completely happy with the 7Dii for macro with the 100f/2.8 please. I don't have the L is version,but have the other one which Is my main lens for shooting my frogs(dartfrogs,some are very small;)),so I'm very interested in your thoughts

many thanks

Stu
 
I'm with Gary and Gary on this one. I've had 1DMkII's, 1DMkIII's, 1DMkIV's, 1DsMkIII and have two 1Dx's and a 5DMkIII....they're all very capable and just get on with with the job but my 7DMkII seems to need a lot of coaxing despite all it's advanced features.

Bob
Bob mainly a post of thanks,I've left a little Q in my reply to Gaz for you,it seemed appropriate there while I was writing,
take care

Stu
 
If you look, a 1D Mark III can be had relatively cheaply on eBay at the moment. I saw one today that failed to secure the opening bid of £400! One of these might be worth a go!
Yes I am looking,although I didn't see this auction end,I'd lay a bet it's on my watch list. even from my limited experience perspective,these look like a real bargain for what one gets for the money. If I can get the money together than I'd really like to go for something a bit more modern,if not then yes I'm very much watching.Nonetheless the tip is appreciated,thanks for taking the time

best

Stu
 
Maybe it's because of my bad experience with a 7Dmkii but I can't fault my 1Dmkiv.

Again another thank you Ian,did you have a problem body?I know some of the names that did,but just haven't the capacity to keep track of all of them. The early problems are concerning to someone like me moving upwards.I would probably think it was me at fault not the camera for some goodly time. I'm hoping that by now though we are past all that maybe the film ware update has helped,i'm sure we'll never know

It's desparately tricky Ian i'm so torn as to which body will suit my needs best.I think both will be great,but it's basically a lot of money and hence worth questing for the right choice

take care

Stu
 
Just a thought Stu, have you considered renting either body for a weekend and see which is more suitable for your needs? It's a lot of money and to make sure you make the right choice renting maybe an option. @StewartR one of the regulars on here and I think a sponsor maybe able to help you out?

Link for website > http://lensesforhire.co.uk/search
 
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.....

Digressing slightly Bob (canon Bob) thank you , in your earlier post could seem to have echoed Gaz's thoughts,would you be so kind as to elucidate on what you mean by coaxing please,could I also ask you where you feel happy shooting iso wise,ie what is the highest iso you would use and feel happy with,actually for both cameras would be wonderful,if you don't mind.thanks so much for your help in this aswell!

.......
Iso first, Stu.
Iso isn't really an issue for me with the 7D's intended use. I live in SW France and the conditions here aren't as challenging (in fact harsh, bright light is a bigger problem) and secondly I'm retired so can choose to use days when the conditions are good rather than having to fit shooting around other schedules. I will say that maybe my Iso approach differs from others that I see in that I have "my limit" for uncropped (or minor compositional cropping) and a lower limit if I expect to crop much tighter. On the 1Dx I'll happily use 51200 for night events/sport if I'm not expecting to crop heavily whilst 25600 allows me a little more latitude if the focal length was lacking.

The 7D2 (or my 7D2 at least)....
Firstly I'll say that it's absolutely fine in one shot centre point....no complaints whatsoever. When it comes to tracking using multiple points then it's noticeably less consistent than the 5D3 and the 1Dx's (as you would perhaps expect). Joe's review shows that he got 7/10 shots in focus from a burst and he's racked up 20,000 shots which implies that it's the 7D2 that falls short and not Joe's experience with it. That's not a big issue for bird photography in general, one framed shot of a bird looks pretty much like the next one and who needs 10 shots of the same pose. Shoot sport (field sports, motorsports etc) and that moment has gone never to be repeated. With the 1Dx, I take bursts of 2 or 3 shots for sport and pick the one with the best timing (ball, tackle, punch or whatever). I get some OOF shots because I shoot with release priority and I'm sometimes arriving late at the scene but I never get focussed-OOF-focussed unless something blocks the shot during the burst. With the 7D2 I see that the focus point remains over the subject but the subject drifts out of focus and back in again during the burst (for subject following a non-deviating path). Tests that I've conducted show that "my 7D2" likes to sample light against dark so it'll wander off a dark subject if the background is lighter whilst it'll perform better tracking a light subject against a dark background when it seems to keep the active focus point over the subject.

The 7D2, 5D3 and 1Dx are all good value for money at their respective prices and it was only the marketing hype that lead me to expect an enthusiast level offering to perform close to that of the professional spec'd bodies. If you not used a 1Dx (or a 5D3) then you'll likely be very happy with a 7D2.

Bob
 
Just a thought Stu, have you considered renting either body for a weekend and see which is more suitable for your needs? It's a lot of money and to make sure you make the right choice renting maybe an option. @StewartR one of the regulars on here and I think a sponsor maybe able to help you out?

Link for website > http://lensesforhire.co.uk/search
Given the experiences of the majority on here then judging a 7D2 after two days usage isn't going to give much insight.....it clearly takes time to get to grips with it.

Bob
 
I have contemplated it jack(bugger sorry) I have contemplated it SIMON:). the biggest issue will be me trying to get my head around the camera in a short space of time and second I only use dpp at this time so might have to run one on dpp version3 and t'other on dpp4 which again I have no experience of, so I'm unsure of the reviewing side other than back of camera naturally. That said I'd get a damn good idea about handling and focus speeds simon it's a good shout no doubt about that before I buy i'm hoping to at the very least get both in my grubby mitts maybe through LCE whom i've dealt with a bit before that will at the very least tell me if I feel ergonomically suited to one body or other and again I'll be able to compare things like AF with my exact lens,

Thanks Si much appreciated :cool:

Stu

ps Guys can I run dpp versions 3 and versions 4 on the same computer???? my lass will have the 550D, when I finally sort myself out....:)..she's great just buy a new body Stu NOW... I want your old one...who could ask for more:clap:
 
Given the experiences of the majority on here then judging a 7D2 after two days usage isn't going to give much insight.....it clearly takes time to get to grips with it.

Bob
Bob sorry typing,yup you beat me this was my immediate concern plus this is two cameras. to learn, fair dues all canon but it's very obivous as we have already pondered there will be a learning curve I simply don't have the expertise. Simon,be very clear I still appreciate your thoughts and time though,tis just I'm going to be the weak link here


Bob please forgive I must nail some chores,but I will get back asap I can only repeat the gratitude for the time taken,you guys have been so kind I simply can't keep up.

thank you so much

Stu
 
Personally I'd go for the 1D IV
 
ps Guys can I run dpp versions 3 and versions 4 on the same computer???? my lass will have the 550D, when I finally sort myself out....:)..she's great just buy a new body Stu NOW... I want your old one...who could ask for more:clap:

Yes
 
I've not the time to reply in full just now (wee one crying) but in short - I'd take the 1D4 over the 7D2.

When the original 7d first came out It grabbed my attention.

From memory I had at the time - a 40d, a 1d2 and a 1d2n.

I picked up a 7d and and to be honest I was impressed. It was like having the AF of the 1d bodies with the 1.6 crop of the 40d.

My hope was to get rid of the 1d2, 1d2n and 40d for the 7d.

In the real world - I got rid of the 7d.

By the time the 7d2 came out I had A 1d3 (and still the 40d)

I was convinced this time that the 7d2 would see me loose the 1.3 crop 1d3 and the 1.6 crop 40d combo.

I had the 7d2 for a month on loan but for what it was going to cost me - I was happy with the 1d3.

Decided on the 1d4 and and I've not looked back.

In all honesty - they're all great cameras and anybody worth their salt should get great results.

Oh - and I still have the 40d !
 
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Whereabouts are you? If you are in the Midlands you would be most welcome to have a good play with my 7D2 and PSE 13. Personally I have no experience of the 1D4 but I do love my 7D2.
 
Thank you Stuart for the kind comments.

I've used an extender on the MkII. The Red Kites above were taken with a 500 f4 + 1.4.

I think that both the MkIV and MkII are fairly close in terms of ISO handling. I feel that the noise on the MKII is a bit coarse but there are some very good noise programmes to use to help with it.

New cameras are a learning experience for most people. Moving from a 1D MkIV to a 1DX at first glance doesn't seem a big deal. In reality the extra features on the 1DX need some time to learn about and to get the best out of them. So it will be for you whatever you decide to buy.

Most of my time now goes into trying to set my cameras up so that I don't miss opportunities that present themselves and having confidence in the camera is an important part of this process. Learning about the different AF cases etc and when to use them. I have that confidence in my 1DX but not quite as much in my MkII. As Bob posted above, this isnt about single point static images, its about movement and BIF etc.

Personally I would go for the MkII, but its a close decision. I do think that the AF system has a definite edge on the MKIV, but I found the MkIV very quick to lock on when I compared my 5D3 with it but the 5D3 tracked better.

As an example of relatively high ISO images this is one at ISO 2000 when I was messing around with my 1DX just after I bought it

Kingfisher

And for something more extreme this is ISO 6400

Osprey
 
Iso first, Stu.
Iso isn't really an issue for me with the 7D's intended use. I live in SW France and the conditions here aren't as challenging (in fact harsh, bright light is a bigger problem) and secondly I'm retired so can choose to use days when the conditions are good rather than having to fit shooting around other schedules. I will say that maybe my Iso approach differs from others that I see in that I have "my limit" for uncropped (or minor compositional cropping) and a lower limit if I expect to crop much tighter. On the 1Dx I'll happily use 51200 for night events/sport if I'm not expecting to crop heavily whilst 25600 allows me a little more latitude if the focal length was lacking.

The 7D2 (or my 7D2 at least)....
Firstly I'll say that it's absolutely fine in one shot centre point....no complaints whatsoever. When it comes to tracking using multiple points then it's noticeably less consistent than the 5D3 and the 1Dx's (as you would perhaps expect). Joe's review shows that he got 7/10 shots in focus from a burst and he's racked up 20,000 shots which implies that it's the 7D2 that falls short and not Joe's experience with it. That's not a big issue for bird photography in general, one framed shot of a bird looks pretty much like the next one and who needs 10 shots of the same pose. Shoot sport (field sports, motorsports etc) and that moment has gone never to be repeated. With the 1Dx, I take bursts of 2 or 3 shots for sport and pick the one with the best timing (ball, tackle, punch or whatever). I get some OOF shots because I shoot with release priority and I'm sometimes arriving late at the scene but I never get focussed-OOF-focussed unless something blocks the shot during the burst. With the 7D2 I see that the focus point remains over the subject but the subject drifts out of focus and back in again during the burst (for subject following a non-deviating path). Tests that I've conducted show that "my 7D2" likes to sample light against dark so it'll wander off a dark subject if the background is lighter whilst it'll perform better tracking a light subject against a dark background when it seems to keep the active focus point over the subject.

The 7D2, 5D3 and 1Dx are all good value for money at their respective prices and it was only the marketing hype that lead me to expect an enthusiast level offering to perform close to that of the professional spec'd bodies. If you not used a 1Dx (or a 5D3) then you'll likely be very happy with a 7D2.

Bob

Bob,thanks again my head is spinning a bit i'm sort of blown away by the time you guys are taking to help me,i'm a simple humble man Bob,I didn't expect this,I can't help but repeat my gratitude to all.
No doubt I want to retire today unfortunately I can't ,hey ho,but yes it is grab what one can and when to a silly level at this time!!


Ok lets get pondering ( god this might turn into a ramble i'm so tired) first up I'd count your approach to iso and cropping as an insight into a more experienced guy's thoughtful take on how to get his best image quality in a given situation,thanks for the thought provoking tip,Bob, god know's whether I'll ever be able to achieve that level of thought in a given situation. I think this will be my real battle,hmm hawling is my patch,it's the first time I came across how can i say it "proper" bird photographers(that is in no way demeaning),at one stage every one was firing,I was stood behind ,a huge smile the lens my gran bought me when she passed hung around my neck,but the purist joy in what I was seeing,I really should have been taking picutres,but I occassionally get caught up in the moment. Ha, one day if I can somehow combine both the joy and an image,wishful thinking huh.

Bob, i'm questing for something,it deeply involves movement,,arrgggh it's so hard trying to articulate this,but I think it lies in those split seconds,the frame rate of my little cracker(sorry 550) is 3.7 I believe as little as I know is not enough. Kiddo I don't know whether it is ten or five or eight but it's more that I need !! I want the camera (that I can possibly afford),that gives me the best chance(my given inadaqucies excepted) of nailing those frames. I really feel that to grab 'erm what i'm after, I need consistantly more of those fractions of a second. Mate, can i say it this way: I'm learning by giving myself a chance at a shot ,like I would suppose many of you do, We love nature we adore her, are bewildered. So ever since we were kids we looked and bumbled into situations where something magical was/is happening. This seems to happen to me quite a bit. So,intrinsically i'm not after the static shot,no I haven't mastered that,but it's these moments that i'm blessed to see,I want to capture with an IQ I'm happy to look at. ..

This has huge relevance to your post about Joe's review: first up I simply don't know where the parameters of expectation should be,for focus,you and Gaz,have a bench mark via Canon's flagship ,ha and a bit of nouce too me a 550D. Is 7 out of 10 good,for a camera such as this,would the mark iv perform better? Is that more than i should ask for,it's definitely nearly twice as many chances as I have now now plus faster lock time and better tracking,it might well just get me to a point where I'm happy.Would one expect the mark four to be more consitent,given same user error? Bob I have to equate user error into everything,I am very(incredibly so) fortunate to live out a bit surrounded by countryside I recently missed a double goldfinch in flight having a bit of a spat I was focused on one bird hoping to catch take off and the other came in and the magic happened,these things happen so fast I reacted fairly well ,but those two above factors lock time and frames per second might,I repeat might have got my something quite special,essentially it's these moments that is driving my quest

Oh cheers on the yes,brill,that's great news,I don't have any other editing software as of yet,I'm taking things slowly and trying to get better with the picture taking side of things,trying to get the best image in camera,before I really go further on the editing

Bob thanks again

Phil ,ha tell me about it please bare with me many thanks though

Sue,bless you ,you're malvern right? vale of evesham here, humble dwelling but just out of the way enough,he he,again so kind speak soon

Hey Gaz coming mate

Stu
 
I've not the time to reply in full just now (wee one crying) but in short - I'd take the 1D4 over the 7D2.

When the original 7d first came out It grabbed my attention.

From memory I had at the time - a 40d, a 1d2 and a 1d2n.

I picked up a 7d and and to be honest I was impressed. It was like having the AF of the 1d bodies with the 1.6 crop of the 40d.

My hope was to get rid of the 1d2, 1d2n and 40d for the 7d.

In the real world - I got rid of the 7d.

By the time the 7d2 came out I had A 1d3 (and still the 40d)

I was convinced this time that the 7d2 would see me loose the 1.3 crop 1d3 and the 1.6 crop 40d combo.

I had the 7d2 for a month on loan but for what it was going to cost me - I was happy with the 1d3.

Decided on the 1d4 and and I've not looked back.

In all honesty - they're all great cameras and anybody worth their salt should get great results.

Oh - and I still have the 40d !

Hey Phil thanks for this,Buddy can you tell me when you finally bought your new camera,,post to that loan of the 7Dii,what factors do your prefer in the mark iv that you bought?

Ahh Phil it really is so tricky,I am utterly sure you're right and they will both be wonderful tools use and grow into for me. I will be the weak link i'm fine with that but good tools are oft a joy to use and withing that one works with them,I just need to sort which is for me,so your prersonal experience is of great value,it make well contain things that I haven't yet considered.

take care hope the little one is cool now :)

Stu
 
Hi Stuart
If you want to try a 1d mk4 I am malvern based and may be selling mine it is in very good condition and I know Sue so you could try both cameras I am waiting for a friend to come back to me over a 1Dx he has he is thinking on selling. That is why I haven't listed it if he decided not to sell I shall keep the 1D. I will know by the end of the week.
Regards
Richard
 
Great idea, Richard, I would be very happy to team up so Stu could have a play with both.
 
Hey Stoo thanks for the help,could you qualify why you are not completely happy with the 7Dii for macro with the 100f/2.8 please. I don't have the L is version,but have the other one which Is my main lens for shooting my frogs(dartfrogs,some are very small;)),so I'm very interested in your thoughts

many thanks

Stu

Hi Stu, it's not just the 7DII that I'm not completely happy with on macro, I've had the same with all crop sensor cameras. They just don't seem to give as clear shots as full frame cameras with macro, maybe it's the sensor in general not resolving as well as the full frame or maybe I was spoilt by using the macro on full frame in the first place. This is macro shot with my 7DII of a Red Faced Cardinal beetle and I'm quite happy with it despite the lighting which spoils it, I had to use flash as it was very dull in the shade. It was taken as I was recovering from a fairly serious illness and was struggling to keep the camera still as well, but it just doesn't seem as clear to me as some of the shots I've got with my 5DIII.
I live just outside of Lincoln so if you're anywhere close you can always come and have a test with the 7DII, or any of the other bodies I've got.

Also, to all the people who think I was dissing the 1DIII earlier in the thread, I was referring more to the newer technology rather than the IQ. I've only had limited experience with a 1DIII and that was the one I had, but comparing the IQ to that one and my 7DII I have now the 7DII does knock spots off it. I did get a lot of great photos with my 1DIII and I've seen hundreds of great photos taken with it by other people as well but I found the 7DII better overall.

Red Faced Cardinal by stuart goodwin, on Flickr
 
I wish my 7D MkII knocked spots of the 1D MkIV. it would be a bloody sight better than it is if it did.
 
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