Branch: First draft

Steve Smith said:
When I used to tell people I worked at the steam railway, I think most of them thought it was all riding around on steam trains, collecting tickets and pulling levers in the signal box. The reality is that 90% of it is fairly mundane work such as lifting and packing (replacing the ballast under sleepers). Big railways have machines for it, we used a jack and half a dozen people with shovels!
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Tell me about it. Barrowing 3 tons of rubble last week. Painting fence pickets this week :)


Steve Smith said:
Your images show the work which goes into it which people don't realise when they go as visitors to these places.
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Thanks. Kind of what I hoped for.
 
big soft moose said:
by the way did you think about shooting the whole thing in B&W ? - I just wondered because monochrome often lends itself to a sense of desolation
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That's an interesting idea and you are correct... but perhaps desolation was not the intended feeling of the work. It's more of a phoenix type re-birth.

Having said that, I'm sure that if I was doing it, I would have used black and white film so there wouldn't be an option of colour!


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
That's an interesting idea and you are correct... but perhaps desolation was not the intended feeling of the work. It's more of a phoenix type re-birth.

Having said that, I'm sure that if I was doing it, I would have used black and white film so there wouldn't be an option of colour!


Steve.
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Well.. I wouldn't expect anything else from you! Id be disappointed if you used a digital camera :)
 
Ah, just downloaded your links - I was referring to the burgundy spread of the Ezine.
 
grotty said:
Ah, just downloaded your links - I was referring to the burgundy spread of the Ezine.
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I see.. that's why I asked if you meant the book or the 'zine, as there's not much text in the one in LMS colours.


I love number 2.. that's actually really quite nice. Not what I was expecting at all actually. :) Resolution will hold the print size too!

Mind if I use it?
 
Pookeyhead said:
I see.. that's why I asked if you meant the book or the 'zine, as there's not much text in the one in LMS colours.


I love number 2.. that's actually really quite nice. Not what I was expecting at all actually. :) Resolution will hold the print size too!

Mind if I use it?
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Of course not, glad to have helped. Do you want the Ind file?
 
grotty said:
Of course not, glad to have helped. Do you want the Ind file?
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Actually, yes... that would be better.

Thanks a lot. Nice work!
 
Nope... never saw it. Not that it would have bothered me any way. I can imagine what it would have been however.
 
Nice set
My only comment is that too many of the "working" shots show people posing and holding their tools, rather than working with them and concentrating on what they are doing. But that is just the way I look at things. As I like to see what they are actually doing.

The Tool holding, posed shots, seem to refer back to the 19th century way of showing a trade by including a tool..

Not sure why one of the painters is standing in the others paint bucket.? but a nice touch.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
Nice set
My only comment is that too many of the "working" shots show people posing and holding their tools, rather than working with them and concentrating on what they are doing. But that is just the way I look at things. As I like to see what they are actually doing.

The Tool holding, posed shots, seem to refer back to the 19th century way of showing a trade by including a tool..

Not sure why one of the painters is standing in the others paint bucket.? but a nice touch.
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I'm still shooting for this. The project will essentially end when there's a train on the line... which is some way off yet. The ones that are posed is because I also wanted more portraits - which have an element of awareness of being photographed. Yes, they are very much a typology as you say (19th century) and very much in the spirit of August Sander. I had every intention of having the portraits as typologies.

I've got quite a lot of stuff of people actually working... but it's actually difficult to edit.. as in curating it, not actual photo editing. I am shooting plenty of that though.

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Essentially, it can become a little journalistic. I'm just recording this stuff, and waiting for those little moments to happen. Maybe it will only be one shot in 10, but there's no rush.
 
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big soft moose said:
fair enough - I retract that

by the way did you think about shooting the whole thing in B&W ? - I just wondered because monochrome often lends itself to a sense of desolation
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Been thinking about this.... in fact, it's the very reason I finally got around to replacing my stolen RB67

I have.... and I'm going to reshoot a great deal of this project with a gallery show in mind.

Time to break out the fibre based 24x20 and spend some time in the darkroom. Watch this space.
 
Took some black and white portraits on Saturday.... Not sure if I'll carry on or not for Branch.

These are scans of real silver based prints.... not negative scans.

RZ67
180mm
Kodak Tri-X
Kodak HC110 (Dilution B) for 6 mins @ 20C

Printed on Kentmere VC Select Lustre at Grade 2.

Very punchy negs. The scans of the prints have exaggerated the punchiness a little (but not much) , but I think less agitation needed at this dilution, or maybe even drop back to dilution E. Will try one inversion per minute next time. They printed very well, but I'm used to grade 2 being a little softer than this. Beautiful negs though.

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BTW.. no Alec Soth comments re: #1... I didn't ask him to pose like that... he just did!
 
Pookeyhead said:
BTW.. no Alec Soth comments re: #1... I didn't ask him to pose like that... he just did!
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I as just about to!! :D

I'm not sure black and white fits with what's gone before. But colour might. JMO.
 
PaulButler said:
carry on with mono or carry on with the project? be a shame to stop the project imo.
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No.. I meant carry on with film. It would mean basically redoing everything... LOL. I'm really not sure I can mix this with the digital shots.

Ed Sutton said:
I as just about to!! :D

I'm not sure black and white fits with what's gone before. But colour might. JMO.
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Yeah... I know... Hmmmm..... C41, or reshoot.
 
Ed Sutton said:
Or maybe a side project about the individuals rather than the restoration?
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Maybe... I'll sit and have a stroky beard moment when I've got a minute. Been in the darkrooms at UCLan all day, and I've got that slightly unreal feeling you have when you've spent 5 hours in a darkroom.

Single malt... sleep. ZZzzz.....
 
Some dark room work from today.

Ilford FP4+ @ 125 in Kodak HC110 1+47 for 10 mins, 20C

Scans from prints.

Kentmere VC Select Fine Lustre in Ilford Multigrade Developer

All at Grade 2. I've got my mojo back with neg exposure and development now, especially with my old friend HC110. Everything prints at grade 2 now.


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My crappy flatbed is NOT doing these prints justice at all!!

So there you go... just thought you may find that interesting, as no one seems to talk about printing any more.
 
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Grade 2 is "normal". Paper comes in contrast grades... 1, 2, 3 etc. 1 being soft, 3 being hard etc. Some is "multigrade" and you select the contrast grade through using filters (grades 00, 0, 1,2, 3, 4 and 5 and there are half grade filters too).. Grade 2 is considered normal. Poor negs usually need a lot of adjustment, or printing on higher contrast papers (or indeed lower) due to being incorrectly exposed and/or developed.

The writing is the dodging and burning instructions. After making test strips, you make a straight print... then decide what needs adjusting. By reading off your test strips you can work out how much more, or less parts of the prints need, then you reprint holding back, or burning in different areas. Most people use dodging tools etc, but After years of doing this, like a shadow artist, I can usually make most shapes with my hands. This is darkroom work Lee... not digital printing. I don;t scan B&W negs... I print them.
 
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Thank you for the explanation.
Yes, I knew it was darkroom printed, It was just interesting for me to see the image with the writing on and what it meant. I never have been in a darkroom nor seen prints with writing on.
 
Solo man said:
Thank you for the explanation.
Yes, I knew it was darkroom printed, It was just interesting for me to see the image with the writing on and what it meant. I never have been in a darkroom nor seen prints with writing on.
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Standard darkroom practice Lee... Which is why hand printing from a lab used to be so much more expensive than machine prints. On average, each print can take up to an hour to complete, and use 3 sheets of paper (excluding test strips)... and that's if you're good.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Standard darkroom practice Lee... Which is why hand printing from a lab used to be so much more expensive than machine prints. On average, each print can take up to an hour to complete, and use 3 sheets of paper (excluding test strips)... and that's if you're good.
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Ok...thank you.
 
Now I know why a) my black and white prints were crap, b) I'm glad digital exists. :D

On a serious note I'm not sure the use of film/black and white is adding anything to this project. At least not for this viewer.
 
I like the film portraits but I don't know how well the whole would hang together. Would chapters give enough separation or does it end up being two different but related projects. A small (8x10) book of bound wet prints would be a nice artefact basically unique.

On a side note, I wish I had access to a dark room.
 
David, I'm REALLY glad you showed those before and after print shots with your notes attached, it's made a lot of the arcane art of wet printing a lot clearer to me. The results of your dodging and burning are spectacular, chalk and cheese. It's a LOT harder to do that (at least with my limited skills) in PP from a scanned negative... (sorry, not to imply it was easy for you, rather that any attempts by me to do something similar in the digital domain have failed).
 
Still called dodging and burning in photoshop and I still do it in preference to any other way of adjusting tones.(and local contrast)

Exhibition prints can certainly take some time in a wet darkroom, and while I did make test strips I never marked up prints. I would make a majority of B&w10x8 prints with out even a test print, and dodge and burn as seemed necessary. I would shuffle develop them in fives or tens. I have no Idea how many bromide prints I made. But on days that I printed it would often be several hundred.
Colour printing slowed down the whole procedure, but was no more difficult, but needed a decent colour analyser to cut out the need for multiple colour tests. However all my bulk colour jobs were sent out, as I never employed a staff printer, and life was too short to do it myself.
 
What I find extraordinary is the amount of yellow boxes of Bromide paper that I used to get through.
All of the day to day sizes up to 12x10 I bought in the largest sizes available, usually boxes of 250 sheets .
I would have only two boxes of grades 1,3and 4 and at least ten boxes of grade 2. In sizes 6 1/2X 8 1/2 And 10X8 and rather less of 12X10, 15X12 and 20 X16. Larger sizes were usually bought for the Job but there was always some in stock from previous jobs.
These quantities were duplicated both as glossy and white fine luster. With the added complication of having to keep double and single weight papers.
It was also necessary to keep some 10 X8 in "press promide" for reproduction.(it did not flouresce under arc lights, nor show retouching)
And Bromesco for warm tone prints.

Such a stock of paper would cost a mind blowing amount today. But was then considered a normal stock fo a fairly busy professional photographer. At one time I tried the much cheaper kentmere papers as proofs, but even client noticed the drop in quality. Today it is one of the few papers around.
 
Ed Sutton said:
Now I know why a) my black and white prints were crap, b) I'm glad digital exists. :D

On a serious note I'm not sure the use of film/black and white is adding anything to this project. At least not for this viewer.
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I'm not sure myself yet.... just playing with it at the moment.


steveo_mcg said:
A small (8x10) book of bound wet prints would be a nice artefact basically unique.

.
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Hmmmmm...... (strokes beard)...


Terrywoodenpic said:
Exhibition prints can certainly take some time in a wet darkroom, and while I did make test strips I never marked up prints. I would make a majority of B&w10x8 prints with out even a test print, and dodge and burn as seemed necessary. I would shuffle develop them in fives or tens. I have no Idea how many bromide prints I made. But on days that I printed it would often be several hundred.
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Mark up your prints then :) I spend quite a long time creating test strips and various grades for various parts of the image, so I know exactly how much to dodge and burn by, and at what contrast filter. Usually, I get the finished print on the second try.. sometimes third if it needs you to be particularly dexterous.
 
Ed Sutton said:
Now I know why a) my black and white prints were crap
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I bet mine were worse, I never stood a chance!

Thank you very much David for posting this, I find it a fascinating insight into what serious photographers do to get the most from a photograph and so much more useful and interesting than the usual run-of-the-mill.[/QUOTE]
 
sirch said:
I bet mine were worse, I never stood a chance!
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Without wishing to 'derail' David's thread... I didn't stand a chance either using a Zenith enlarger in a not-quite-blacked-out bathroom, with no temperature control for the water. I used a college darkroom once and it was like entering printing heaven!
 
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