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What's the difference if you buy canon cameras or lenses etc from Germany or Hong Kong etc to buying in the Uk except for the obvious being the price difference?
Buying from Grey market ?
- Thread starter friesianfan69
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I believe that your warranty is invalid and you may have trouble if you sell the camera, lens etc on especially if you want to trade it in. In extreme circumstances people have had their equipment taken off them by the authorities.
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I believe than Lens warranty is international, but don't think that applies to cameras.
You will no doubt get many replies debating the ethics of buying from the Grey market. Personally I would search for the thread discussing this subject and ask the mods to close this one
You will no doubt get many replies debating the ethics of buying from the Grey market. Personally I would search for the thread discussing this subject and ask the mods to close this one
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Black market is stolen goods.
I think you mean the grey-market. Stuff imported by companies from other countries not using official distributors. People like Digital Rev and HDEW.
I bought a Canon 60D from HDEW a few years ago knowing that it was a grey import, but also being re-assured by them that they had paid the import duty (and provided a VAT receipt). HDEW also provide a 3yr warranty through a 3rd party company that will cover any problems you have, repairs, etc.
I had no problems with this and it saved me a good £200ish over the full retail price for a brand new camera.
I think you mean the grey-market. Stuff imported by companies from other countries not using official distributors. People like Digital Rev and HDEW.
I bought a Canon 60D from HDEW a few years ago knowing that it was a grey import, but also being re-assured by them that they had paid the import duty (and provided a VAT receipt). HDEW also provide a 3yr warranty through a 3rd party company that will cover any problems you have, repairs, etc.
I had no problems with this and it saved me a good £200ish over the full retail price for a brand new camera.
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What ABTog said above ^^
When the £ was stronger and the grey importers were a bit more sketchy about declaring values there was more reason to import kit. These days the weak £ and tightening up on imports there are still good deals to be had but not quite the same as it used to be.
Portus Digital, HDEW, Panamoz and Digital Rev are the people to look at.
Do you have any examples of grey market camera kit being 'taken off them by the authorities'? Genuinely interested.
Erm you wouldn't get equipment taken off you per se for importing grey market goods. Only if you misrepresented the value of the goods to evade tax, customs charges etc. could that potentially happen. However that'd be extreme and would apply to any potential imported purchase, camera kit or not. I know some sellers have undervalued goods to reduce costs to seller / buyer but usually you'll get a courier letter saying you need to pay X amount to cover vat, customs charges and their 'processing fee' before they'll release the parcel. The amount will vary depending upon declared value.
When the £ was stronger and the grey importers were a bit more sketchy about declaring values there was more reason to import kit. These days the weak £ and tightening up on imports there are still good deals to be had but not quite the same as it used to be.
Portus Digital, HDEW, Panamoz and Digital Rev are the people to look at.
Do you have any examples of grey market camera kit being 'taken off them by the authorities'? Genuinely interested.
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Importing direct from Hog Kong you are personally responsible for paying the relevant import taxes and duties, purchasing for yourself this is pretty much the limit of your liabilities but if you're even thinking about importing to sell on be aware that you then get into a completely different kettle of fish. The warranty situation is whatever the warranty situation is in Hong Kong, or perhaps you can fall back on to an International Warranty - which is never very comprehensive.
Buying from Germany or any other EU nation is very little different to buying in the UK. There's no tax, no duty and EU warranties are comparable to those in the UK. You can often save quite a bit shopping round between the various European Amazon stores for example, there are several websites that automate this. Things here are likely to change in the next two years, it seems the concept of the single market isn't very popular in the UK.
OP
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Ahhh yes sorry grey market ( not stolen )
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Most of the cameras I have purchased recently were from Panamoz and the like. As far as I am aware, all relevant taxes are paid by the sellers and I have sold them on here and other places without any problems. In fact, buying from Panamoz generally means you can transfer the balance of warranty to the new owner, which is a good selling point. I'm pretty sure most of the big camera manufacturers will not allow you to transfer warranties
Another good reason to buy grey imports.
Another good reason to buy grey imports.
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Some companies hold their stock in Hong Kong/other places and ship directly to you from there. These are at risk of being seized by customs if they don't have documentation declaring duty being paid. I know one photographer who had this happen with a camera ordered from Digital Rev, apparently customs at Heathrow were holding anything with Digital Rev labels on. (This was about 3yrs ago though)
HDEW have an actual office and Warehouse in South London that you can phone or visit to collect, so you know the gear has already made it through customs.
When I ordered my 60D, I called to check they had stock.
If in doubt, phone them and ask, why so cheap, have they paid the import duty, is the stock in the UK?
HDEW have an actual office and Warehouse in South London that you can phone or visit to collect, so you know the gear has already made it through customs.
When I ordered my 60D, I called to check they had stock.
If in doubt, phone them and ask, why so cheap, have they paid the import duty, is the stock in the UK?
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Great thankyou
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I've had nothing but fantastic results buying grey imports from eBay, I have brought camera body's and a number of lens all of which have been perfect through out the 2 years I have had them. Yes it is a gamble but one worth taking in my eyes. (Bet it all goes wrong tomorrow now).
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Thats where i got my camera
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In which case you probably have a 3 year transferable warranty.
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Never dealt with Panamoz, presumably there is something in the small print saying the purchaser is responsible for any customs or other duties due (although they may offer to repay it)
So if any problems did occur you the importer are liable, some less than reputable companies describe the goods as samples or lesser valued items on the customs declaration
So if any problems did occur you the importer are liable, some less than reputable companies describe the goods as samples or lesser valued items on the customs declaration
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At great risk of disturbing a hornets nest! I would like to know where purchasers of grey imports go to 'look' at the cameras before they buy. I was in my LPS the other day when a person came in looked at a camera and then told the shop owner they would be ordering from Panamax!!! Even some reputable dealers are now putting 'grey' stock on their shelves. So where will the 'lookers' and 'feel it' customers go when the LPS is closed.
I did in fact have a good deal on my latest camera from my LPS, I admit not as cheap as Panamax or HDEW but it is only a quick train ride to go back if it goes wrong.
I did in fact have a good deal on my latest camera from my LPS, I admit not as cheap as Panamax or HDEW but it is only a quick train ride to go back if it goes wrong.
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You do make a good point, and to be honest at the moment the price differences are meaning it isn't worth the difference to buy grey, although it often seems that bodies are cheaper and lenses are much the same cost.
Personally I have in the past used Panamoz for bodies (D750 annd D810) but I haven't bought anything from them in a while, since the Brexit vote and the Pound dropping its not been worth it and frankly I got some great deals over Christmas from UK stockists.
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Technically the importer (ie you) are responsible for the import and VAT charges. What a lot of the overseas sellers say is that if you get slapped with these charges, they will pay them on your behalf. Some of them work on a percentage basis in that they will only have to pay VAT/Duty on a small number of their shipments.
This does not apply to HDEW and other UK based 'grey' importers who import the goods into this country paying the duty/VAT on entry and correctly accounting for VAT when they sell the item to you.
This is why you can get a VAT receipt from the UK based grey importers and not when you buy direct from Hong Kong etc.
This does not apply to HDEW and other UK based 'grey' importers who import the goods into this country paying the duty/VAT on entry and correctly accounting for VAT when they sell the item to you.
This is why you can get a VAT receipt from the UK based grey importers and not when you buy direct from Hong Kong etc.
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Always wondered why their (HDEW) T&C's show this though...
http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/terms.asp
(Highlighting mine)
An anomaly that has never been explained!
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I'd suggest you change the thread title then
Plenty of people buy grey market, there's pro's and cons and there's some very strong 'anti' opinions round these parts.
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Is that not some form of wriggle, allowing non-UK (EU) market goods to be imported, ie potentially not CE marked, or UK plug etc. I'd agree its not clear and possibly not actually enforcable in a court of law as they are a UK limited company Validhirst Ltd T/A HDEW Cameras
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I don't know ... all I do know is that it clearly states that the buyer is the importer, which is the same as buying from Panamoz, DigitalRev etc, etc.
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.. from some UK-based grey importers..
.. the policies of other importers have been the source of much debate on the forum. You know the ones, if they're named the Shill Alarm starts ringing.
odd jim
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I buy both UK and import (DigitalRev - HK). The only problems I've ever encountered were from UK sourced equipment!
Never had a problem with my imported kit, and you won't have any issues in part exchanging or re-selling. The decent companies provide their own warranty and after this ends they are the same as any piece of equipment, you simply pay for the repair. The only thing that would affect a PX is having the HK / US / Japanese charger as these require a plug adaptor (supplied, but only a few quid if they get lost) but if I were to PX at a shop I would likely swap this out for a UK charger.
Never had a problem with my imported kit, and you won't have any issues in part exchanging or re-selling. The decent companies provide their own warranty and after this ends they are the same as any piece of equipment, you simply pay for the repair. The only thing that would affect a PX is having the HK / US / Japanese charger as these require a plug adaptor (supplied, but only a few quid if they get lost) but if I were to PX at a shop I would likely swap this out for a UK charger.
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I think it depends on what you are buying tbh. If I bought a D750 from panamoz (which I intend to do once they have them back in stock), they are currently at £1255 including shipping. If I decided to go via jessops or wex for example then it would cost me £1599. That is £350 cheaper.
I could buy a cheap sigma macro lens with the price difference.
I do notice there isn't much difference with 3rd party lenses mind, but bodies are a lot cheaper. Just compare the d610 and d810 price difference at panamoz - Wex/jessops.
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Times are changing though and consumers are changing behaviour. Not all granted but the high street is well on it's way to be replaced by the click of a button. Not saying that's good or bad, just a reality.
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I do agree, only the fittest will survive. Maybe a survey on here would tell us how many buyers look at a product locally, whether it be Jessops, London Camera Exchange or the local private shop etc before ordering on line.
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Very good shout and it'd be an interesting read.
For me apart from groceries i avoid the high street at all costs!
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If you look at Nikon body prices on camera price buster (current cheapest uk price) against Panamoz the price differences are interesting.
D810 £1766 uk £2139 difference 17.4% ( if you take uk price as £2299 then it's a 23% difference)
D750 £1255 uk £1595 difference 21%
D610 £965 uk £1099 difference 12%
D500 £1347 uk £1679 difference 20%
D7200 £684 uk £799 difference 14%
D5500 with 18-140 lens £703 uk £795 difference 12%
Why is there a price difference of 12% to 21% across these cameras? It's interesting the biggest price differences are the more expensive models with there being less discount on the lower end models.
What we can be sure of that price difference will slowly drop as they get more market share and uk high street stores start to disappear. I can see it staying at around 10-12% making it enticing if you are buying an expensive model as it will still be a large chunk but the cheaper range wouldnt be as enticing.
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Just a thought................Supply and demand for the price difference along with body age, the D610 is an older camera now and people would probably buy the D750 for the better AF, similar for the D7200 & D5500, possibly more so for the D5500 as these type of models seem to upgraded more frequently, unless it's my perception..
There was the Nikon price increase of about 20% last year due to the exchange rate IIRC.
I have bought my last two cameras from the UK, the last being a D500 a couple of weeks ago. I wanted the D500 with the 16-80mm but Panamoz were out of stock and the saving was about £700 for the kit over UK prices at the time IIRC £1773 vs £2479.
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I guess if you are prepared to pay U.K. prices, you should seek out bricks and mortar shops, but most things, not just cameras, are sold online now sight unseen.
I suppose most cameras nowadays are similar in size and operation to their predecessors, so good research should leave you with few surprises.
Its only when you are changing brands or buying new lenses that you might want to consider physically checking them out, but plenty of people on here buy used goods and can only test them out when they are in their possession, a bit like a grey import.
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I was very interested in a D500. Consequently, I hired one for Motogp @ Silverstone last year.
That way, I was able to actually get some experience with the camera, way above just holding one in a shop.
Im about to order one from Panamoz,mainly because I couldnt really justify the Uk price of £1700 odd.
If I couldnt buy grey, I would have to just play the long game and wait for prices to become affordable for me.
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I have to agree that's a good way of doing it, I looked at hiring a D750 for a couple of days, but bit the bullet and bought instead, you have supported another local business by hiring. Where did you hire from, I looked at Jessops but nothing was available for a month
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What an interesting thread.
For years I've bought some of my equipment online, from various suppliers such as 123fstop (EF100-400, E70-200 2.8L, EF 1.4x II Extender, EF24-70 2.8L, 580EXII Speedlite), from One-stop Digital (EF16-35 2.8L II, EF180 3.5L macro, MT-24EX Twinlite, LP-E6N batteries) and from HDEW (5DIII and grip) - always at the very best prices I could find anywhere on the internet at the time. I've only ever bought genuine Canon branded equipment and accessories, so shopping around is something I've always done, and still do of course.
I've only experienced problems twice, both for completely different reasons. First time was when I came to p/x my EF24-70mm f/2.8L USM with WEX. They offered me £500 initially, but reduced that by £50 when they'd actually inspected it. When I questioned this they said that, although it was mint as I'd described, the warranty would be an issue. Since I'd first bought the lens back in 2007, it was way out of warranty anyway, so I didn't see what the problem was, but I didn't argue the toss because I wanted the exchange to offset the new EF24-105mm f/4L IS II USM.
The second time was very recently, when I ordered four new Canon LP-E6N battery packs from One-Stop Digital on 28th December. I cannot fault their service .. they were good enough to inform me, at around the time I was expecting to receive my order, that HM Customs had picked my package at random and there would therefore be a delay over which they had no control. I checked on the Royal Mail parcel tracking website regularly and the batteries finally arrived yesterday!
I can cast my mind back to when I bought stuff from 123fstop, when they would ask me to fill out a form for them so that the VAT issue could be sorted legitimately, but I never had to pay any subsequent extra supplements, so the good prices I paid were just those, good prices.
For years I've bought some of my equipment online, from various suppliers such as 123fstop (EF100-400, E70-200 2.8L, EF 1.4x II Extender, EF24-70 2.8L, 580EXII Speedlite), from One-stop Digital (EF16-35 2.8L II, EF180 3.5L macro, MT-24EX Twinlite, LP-E6N batteries) and from HDEW (5DIII and grip) - always at the very best prices I could find anywhere on the internet at the time. I've only ever bought genuine Canon branded equipment and accessories, so shopping around is something I've always done, and still do of course.
I've only experienced problems twice, both for completely different reasons. First time was when I came to p/x my EF24-70mm f/2.8L USM with WEX. They offered me £500 initially, but reduced that by £50 when they'd actually inspected it. When I questioned this they said that, although it was mint as I'd described, the warranty would be an issue. Since I'd first bought the lens back in 2007, it was way out of warranty anyway, so I didn't see what the problem was, but I didn't argue the toss because I wanted the exchange to offset the new EF24-105mm f/4L IS II USM.
The second time was very recently, when I ordered four new Canon LP-E6N battery packs from One-Stop Digital on 28th December. I cannot fault their service .. they were good enough to inform me, at around the time I was expecting to receive my order, that HM Customs had picked my package at random and there would therefore be a delay over which they had no control. I checked on the Royal Mail parcel tracking website regularly and the batteries finally arrived yesterday!
I can cast my mind back to when I bought stuff from 123fstop, when they would ask me to fill out a form for them so that the VAT issue could be sorted legitimately, but I never had to pay any subsequent extra supplements, so the good prices I paid were just those, good prices.
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Ive brought loads of stuff from HK, never had an issue, and as some have said, these companies offer their own warranty which is normally better than the 12 months you get with the Camera manufactures.
These days i prefer Panamoz as they have a UK based operation. Places like DR and one stop digital seem more hassle if you need soothing repaired.
As far a VAT goes, im not sure what the score is. I know a while ago places like DR would send the packages to the UK using fake item names. My 5Dmkiii was marked down as toy samples. It also stated on their website that you, as the buyer are responsible for all duties paid as you are intructing them to import the good for you, so you are responsible. Saying that, they also offer to reimburse you so you arent out of pocket.
Ive yet to be shown how the UK based companies like HDEW can offer goods at such a low price and still claim VAT has been paid, but i dont care enough to question it.
These days i prefer Panamoz as they have a UK based operation. Places like DR and one stop digital seem more hassle if you need soothing repaired.
As far a VAT goes, im not sure what the score is. I know a while ago places like DR would send the packages to the UK using fake item names. My 5Dmkiii was marked down as toy samples. It also stated on their website that you, as the buyer are responsible for all duties paid as you are intructing them to import the good for you, so you are responsible. Saying that, they also offer to reimburse you so you arent out of pocket.
Ive yet to be shown how the UK based companies like HDEW can offer goods at such a low price and still claim VAT has been paid, but i dont care enough to question it.
Quick review. My 5D Mark IV from Digitalrev arrived today via UPS in perfect condition (ordered 23. March). Ordered the camera + 3-year Mack international warranty (I know some don't like them but I had not issues, repaired the broken the SET button on my 1Ds Mark III without any questions) and they offered a 2nd battery for free. Everything was well packed, all the original stuff in the box, even that 600+ pages monster manual in english. No complains here.
If it's from interest, the label on the box shows that it was packed from Canon 27.12.2016.
If it's from interest, the label on the box shows that it was packed from Canon 27.12.2016.
Would be interested to know what the customs declaration on the label stated? Gift?
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Hi Chris
i am looking at the 50-140 fuji lens and its £200 less at panamoz.thats a fair saving, not sure on other kit