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It is now but Panamoz prices have stabilised a little since I made that comment almost 3 months ago in January, I've noticed their pricing has started to come down on a lot of items.
Buying from Grey market ?
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It is now but Panamoz prices have stabilised a little since I made that comment almost 3 months ago in January, I've noticed their pricing has started to come down on a lot of items.
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If the genuine UK retailers actually competed for our custom, they might get more business. You only have to look at camera price buster to see how little actual competition there actually is. see below
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Canon/Canon-Digital-SLRs/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-Camera-Body
I believe it may be illegal If they are prevented from offering genuinely competitive prices by Canon UK ( in this case). Resale Price Maintenance ( fixing retail prices) was abolished many years ago.
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Canon/Canon-Digital-SLRs/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-Camera-Body
I believe it may be illegal If they are prevented from offering genuinely competitive prices by Canon UK ( in this case). Resale Price Maintenance ( fixing retail prices) was abolished many years ago.
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lol didn't realise it was jan
Sorry, I forgot to mentioned that. The item description and the Harm. Code were correct on the customs declaration, however, they value not.
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If you look at CPB you find that the latest model from most manufacturers shows very low deviation in price across all retailers. Slightly older models show much more diversity in pricing.
It's the new model premium - retailers know that the one point in a products lifecycle when they can extract the most margin is whilst the product is still the latest and greatest thing on the market and purchasers are the least price sensitive.
(we've covered this just a week or two ago in another thread)
It's the new model premium - retailers know that the one point in a products lifecycle when they can extract the most margin is whilst the product is still the latest and greatest thing on the market and purchasers are the least price sensitive.
RRP is permitted for electrical goods, and has been since 2012.
(we've covered this just a week or two ago in another thread)
Mr Badger
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Speaking generally, not about any specific retailer, perhaps sales have slowed down due to the price increase? Prices tend to drop a bit if the tills stop ringing.
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I am not a UK national but I have lived in the UK for 9 years. I usually buy cameras and lens from my homeland, Taiwan, and as long as you do not shatter them, these equipments are all the same. Thus I find no reason why you cannot buy cameras and lens from grey market - if you just shatter them, you anyway have to pay GBP.
Just my opinion...
Just my opinion...
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D
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Gifts attract the same duty anyway, the only difference is the minimum value at which they attract duty, and it's still a relatively low value so wouldn't benefit you if buying a camera.
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Depends what you mean by competing for your business, if you mean trying to absorb the costs of having a high street shop, business rates, staff costs etc there is a point below its not worth selling a camera, the internet companies do not have these overheads so go and do the maths! The sad thing is it will at some stage be impossible to go and look at the goods before you buy them which is the big plus of a high street retailer!
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Er........this seems to cover it.......
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...resale-price-maintenance-advice-for-retailers
There's no mention of an exception for electrical goods but you may be right.
I can quite understand why bricks and mortar shops can't compete with internet only retailers but I can't understand why they can't compete with each other.
Anyway, life's too short really........
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RRM and RRP are slightly different, but how about the point that both times this has been raised on the forum in recent weeks the single example given has always been a new high spec model. When you look across a range of models it doesn't hold true. No retailer is going to deviate from the RRP by more than a couple of pounds whilst a model is still fresh on the market and demand is high. They're not daft.
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It looks like a bit of a "grey" area to me.
Mr Badger
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Sadly, that's the stage I'm at in the area where I live; no high-street camera shops in either of the two towns nearest to me.
I always used to buy my cameras and accessories (and I've bought a few of them over the years, both new and used) from local camera shops, firstly because I wanted to support local business if I could, and secondly because I found, as one of their regular customers, if I discussed things with them in a friendly and polite way, they would usually do a price-match with any other advertised UK-based retail price.However, many of the independents seemed to get taken over by larger 'multi-store type' retailers, who eventually went out of business for one reason or another. So with no local 'independents' to support, I've had to buy 'blind' via mail-order in recent years. Consequently, when I wanted a new full-frame digital SLR a couple of years ago, I opted for the lowest advertised price I could find from an established UK camera retailer. Ironically, this was an independent retailer with a town centre camera shop in north-west England, rather than an internet-based concern, and I got good, fast, service at a fantastic price!
So my conscience is clear in that respect. However, I'd love to have a good, local camera shop, so if you've got one then treasure it, and at least give them a chance to give you a price/quote if you want to buy a new camera, lens, tripod, flash gun, camera bag, etc. and if there's only a few pounds difference then, before you go for the lowest price, ask yourself how much you'd miss the shop if it closed down? Sadly, once they're gone, they're usually gone for good.
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I must admit i buy most of my lenses from Park Cameras or WEX (not so much though). I have a Park cameras near me and i find its very dangerous for me to walk in there lol.
I know buying Gary will save me a bit of money but i prefer to buy UK stock if i can.
When it comes to bodies though, a £1000 saving is too much to ignore. My last 3 Canon bodies have come from HK. The more expensive the item, the more money i save (which seems to equate to about 20% off UK prices;-).
I used to use a small camera shop years ago, but their prices kept going up, due to rent and rates etc, but my wages didnt so i just couldnt afford to support them at my expense.
I know buying Gary will save me a bit of money but i prefer to buy UK stock if i can.
When it comes to bodies though, a £1000 saving is too much to ignore. My last 3 Canon bodies have come from HK. The more expensive the item, the more money i save (which seems to equate to about 20% off UK prices;-).
I used to use a small camera shop years ago, but their prices kept going up, due to rent and rates etc, but my wages didnt so i just couldnt afford to support them at my expense.
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That's interesting. One theory which may explain how some "grey market" retailers are so cheap is that they deliberately evade import duty and VAT when the equipment comes into the UK. Both the import duty an the VAT are, of course, based on the value of the item; so putting a lower value on the declaration means that the import duty and VAT will be charged at too low a rate. This would seem to be evidence to support that theory.
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I doubt very much that's just a theory, more like a hitting the nail on the head statement. How else can we buy goods from them at a cost saving that seems to equal the cost of VAT.
Which equates with VAT ... lovely jubbly.
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Yep, thats the bottom line with the Grey market stuff.
Other than the saving i also like how some of the places give a much better warranty than a lot of the UK ones. 3 years warranty seems to be the norm if buying from places like Panamoz and HDEW. Cant say the same about any of the UK based companies, not even Canon direct.
So 3 years peace of mind AND a huge saving.....lovely jubbly indeed!
Other than the saving i also like how some of the places give a much better warranty than a lot of the UK ones. 3 years warranty seems to be the norm if buying from places like Panamoz and HDEW. Cant say the same about any of the UK based companies, not even Canon direct.
So 3 years peace of mind AND a huge saving.....lovely jubbly indeed!
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Whilst there might be reasons for not buying 'grey' this isn't one of them ... most repairs will be carried out by e.g. Nikon or a Nikon Approved Repairer.
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I was convinced I would buy grey when I bought my X-T2 kit around a month ago.
But I ended up getting a far better deal in Jessops.
They offered me a trade in value for my Nikon gear over £150 more than Wex or MPB.
Plus if I'd have bought grey I wouldn't have been able to take Fuji up on their £200 extra trade in bonus, or get the grip for half price.
So Jessops it was.
But I ended up getting a far better deal in Jessops.
They offered me a trade in value for my Nikon gear over £150 more than Wex or MPB.
Plus if I'd have bought grey I wouldn't have been able to take Fuji up on their £200 extra trade in bonus, or get the grip for half price.
So Jessops it was.
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Well if Canon dont have the right parts id be switching to Nikon immediately ;-)
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Yes, Grey isnt always the best option. Ive had a few lenses recently (WEX and Park) that have worked out cheaper than buying from HK, but purely because of the cash back deals Canon have been running.
As for trading gear in, well there is a loss right there as IME you get more by selling than trading in. Then again it is more convenient trading gear, a lot less hassle.
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I didn't see a loss. I bought d750 with 24-120 for £801.97 in pc world. I made a good amount of money [emoji2]
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Well of course that's it. Most if not all of these retailers are operating not on the grey market (legal but not through manufacturer-approved channels) but on the black market (illegal). I couched it as a "theory" because there are lots of people here who don't want to hear this, and have other theories (e.g. price collusion between UK retailers) which they prefer.
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I'm sure most people who buy grey know the score, some choose to ignore the truth and as you say justify by other arguments. A bit like bringing goods through airport customs without declaring and hoping not to get caught.
Interested in your comment on the black market. Is there likely to sufficient stock available?
If somebody in your position bought from the grey market, would your usual suppliers start causing problems or even blacklist you? (Probably not a question you can or want to answer) Given the VAT position I don't suppose they is any benefit in business buying grey anyway.
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My point was that most of the time, when someone talks about grey market goods (imported legally, but not through channels approved by the manufacturer), it's actually black market (imported illegally).
I can answer very easily. Anyone who runs a business would be stupid to touch goods that have been illegally imported. As an individual you might think you might get away with it, but as a company director I have to be prepared for an inspection if HMRC draw my name out of their proverbial hat. Plus I have obligations to my staff and to my shareholders. I try to be absolutely squeaky clean in every respect.
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Im well aware of whats involved with buying grey market stuff, ive done it for all my Canon bodies as ive saved a fortune, and im under no illusion how i saved that sort of money.
What im not clear on is what if you go to HK for, say 3 months holiday. You buy a camera out there, and pay all the local taxes etc. Do you also have to pay more duty when you come back to the UK. Also does this camera now became a grey market item? Would Canon Uk touch this (at the owners cost) or consider it as illegally imported? Im aware that Canon can tell where a camera was supposed to be sold by its serial number, but in the above scenario it should be clear that it wasnt grey market as such.
just musing.
What im not clear on is what if you go to HK for, say 3 months holiday. You buy a camera out there, and pay all the local taxes etc. Do you also have to pay more duty when you come back to the UK. Also does this camera now became a grey market item? Would Canon Uk touch this (at the owners cost) or consider it as illegally imported? Im aware that Canon can tell where a camera was supposed to be sold by its serial number, but in the above scenario it should be clear that it wasnt grey market as such.
just musing.
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Where have you heard this about taken gear off people?
I have bought from Hdew and SLRhut and all good, Hdew gives a 3yr warranty as well more the any other shop. Warranties are always with the seller and NOT the makers.
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That is a legitimate sale from canon HK and their guarantee will be valid in Hong Kong. However canon UK is a separate company and only services under guarantee Cameras they have supplied. here. There is no reason why they would not do a cash service if it were needed, though they might want to see the invoice.
It should be noted that canon do honour guarantees on lenses wherever they were purchased.
At the moment if you purchase a camera in the EU there are no further taxes to pay when bringing the camera into the UK, though that will change after Brexit.
Purchases from anywhere else whether or not you paid taxes, are subject to import duties and vat.
Many retailers in foreign countries will sell tax free to visitors and deliver to a departing flight. this comes under international tax agreements. Only the larger retailers are set up to do this.
Of course you must pay local taxes when you return.
Grey only means sold by a different canon company than your own. It is always honoured where it was sold.
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I am afraid that is absolute rubbish Grey imports are as legal as any other kind. Anyone at all can import anything from anywhere.
Certainly in Canons case they try do discourage it, and do not honour other local Guarantees, but no law has been broken. However they themselves issue international Guarantees on all lenses and honour them from anywhere.
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Agreed, there's nothing wrong with the grey market in principle. But the reality is that, as far as photographic equipment is concerned, most "grey market" imports are actually imported illegally. We all know that, surely.
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So all the main grey importers are illegal, Panamoz, HDEW, DigitalRev etc?
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It is the customers who import the goods from these companies and do not pay the vat due on imports and any duties that are acting illegally rather than the companies that sell them, much the same as bringing back goods from outside the EEA and not declaring them at airport customs.
This subject will always be devisive.
This subject will always be devisive.
Not quite. If a company imports from another country where it can source stuff cheaper than from the UK distributor, and pays all the dueUK taxes etc. which in all likelihood it does, there is nothing illegal about it. It is more likely to be an illegal activity by the buyer when the fine print has blurb about import duties, VAT etc that may have to be paid by the importer, i.e. the buyer, and the supplier may/will pay such costs if customs happen to catch up with the goods. The illegality starts the moment such taxes are not paid.
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You need to look very carefully at who's the exporter and who's the importer when you buy from companies like this.
- It is perfectly legal to export a camera from the Far East to the UK.
- It is illegal to import a camera from the Far East and not pay the relevant tax and duty to HMRC.
It is the buyer that breaks the law.
The thing is everyone would like to save 20% VAT (it is what happens when taxes rise to silly numbers). But the stupidity starts when people start boasting about not paying due taxes. I guess too small fry for the HMRC to chase VAT for a camera here and a lens there ... watch out though in case they get a few youngsters on work training or internships.
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Ok, so whilst I appreciate that technically these company's aren't breaking the law you'd have thought there'd be some trading standards that force these companies to make it more clear and not just tucked away somewhere in the small print. I know technically we should all read the small print but who reads all the small print on every purchase they make?
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Err.. no.
If you buy from a company in Hong Kong you're making a deliberate step outside the protection offered by your local Trading Standards officer. Maybe that's a deliberate and informed choice, maybe it's through ignorance.