Buying used film gear from Europe?

ChrisR

ChrisR

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Now that we're emerging from our 40+ years of confinement and can see the sunlit uplands ahead, free of red tape, I'm left wondering what happens if we buy used film gear (cameras, lenses, etc etc) from Europe? I understand we won't have to pay duty, but will we have to pay VAT?

I saw that Paul from Analogue Wonderland is doing a software modification so he can supply films to European countries VAT free; he said each country has different rules about when VAT would apply. And apparently the EU will shortly bring in a new rule that VAT wouldn't be charged on imports under €150. But both of those are going the other way.

Anyone know?

PS I queued for ages yesterday to buy as many Large Letter stamps as I could afford before they went up, while someone ahead laboriously wrote out their Customs Declaration for their parcel going to Europe. So much more enjoyable than the old way!
 
Not 100% on this one, but living in Finland now (after 20 odd years in UK) - and very used to UK shopping for my gear.
I was going to order a mic system from a UK store and was told that I would be paying the UK VAT (which a LTD company in Finland during EU times would have been ’zeroed’, as well as customs fees and Finnish VAT on import.
The Finnish VAT I can claim back as a company... but sounded like the VAT is payable.
 
As an Irish company, we bought a good deal from UK based suppliers, but just as with Finland we will not only have to pay the UK VAT now, which was zeroed in effect prior to Brexit, but also will have to register it as an import if coming under company expenses, also possible duties etc.

Has me seeking suppliers in France and Germany, I see MBP have established a Berlin base. But wondering where I’ll get the many items I got prior to this.
 
Stegosaurus said:
I am going to wait until the dust settles. I gather there is a fair amount of confusion and misinterpretation of the rules at the moment. It's going to take a little while I think.
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Indeed..last time (years ago) I visited duty free shops at the airport, if you could prove you are from a country outside the EU you got the product a lot cheaper..mind you I'm not sure what they took off e.g. taxes, duties, Vat or whatever.
So scaling up for imports and exports can't see what could be the problem ATM.
 
Unsurprisingly it’s an utter clusterf***.
 
RaglanSurf said:
Unsurprisingly it’s an utter clusterf***.
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..and add Covid. My son will be banned from seeing his girlfriend in the Netherlands unless he can prove it's something important...h'mm seeing his girlfriend is important to him.
 
I believe VAT now has to be paid at the point of sale which has seen some small European businesses stop selling to the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

EU firms refuse UK deliveries over Brexit tax changes

Some EU specialist firms stop delivering to the UK because of tax changes that took effect on 1 January.
www.bbc.co.uk

How that affects buying used camera gear I don't know, I guess it depends if you are buying from a company that would need to be VAT registered (and if they have done so yet) or if it is a private sale.
 
I ordered a small item from Germany on Dec.24th.

13 Euros with postage.

They haven't dispatched it yet. I'm wondering if they're not sure what to do, or if I'll get charged extra this end.

Who knows? :thinking:
 
Well the UK imports more goods from the EU than we export, so it's in the interest of the EU to sort this mess out.
 
I can see the issue with EU Companies having to register with HMRC and report UK VAT as the BBC report indicates means there's a trade-off between sales and hassle/cost. It'll depend on how that works out for each company.

For us, just looking to buy from the UK suppliers we know and trust, it's made it more expensive. Wondering if there's others here who know good suppliers in the EU? Given the Finland mention above for example, I know Kameratori in Tempere are a well respected supplier of large format and other equipment. But curious to find a good supplier of paper stocks and other supplies, much as Silverprint could be relied upon for, but within the EU.
 
But like a number of businesses have said, why should they (in various EU and even non-EU countries) register for UK VAT and charge it at the point of sale and make VAT returns to the UK? This sounds like the UK has taken something simple and massively over-complicated it, like they so often did with EU regulations being gold-plated by the UK government.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well the UK imports more goods from the EU than we export, so it's in the interest of the EU to sort this mess out.
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It's the UK that decided to pull out of Europe, so although you may be correct about the quantity of imports / exports and potentially interest financially from this side, I personally feel that more responsibilty falls on the UK govt to sort this mess ( inc that for ex pats!) than the European countries.

Knowing French attitudes, if the whole system agreed between the two govts is too complicated, many business will refuse to export to the UK or if they do, it will be at an excessive price which of course will fall on the consumer at your end.....ie: You!

Like Covid, for Brexit, we're going around blind , plucking at ideas out of a hat, when in relity we have no idea for sure if they are going to be efficient.

Tbh I'm totally flirked off with the whole situation!
 
Retune said:
It's not their mess.

View: https://BANNED/uk_domain_names/status/1346150221781282823
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A cunning plan by Boris to get joe public to buy British or deal within the UK.
Anyway when we buy from Japan, China, US etc do we have the same problem.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
If its less than £135 and not a gift then yes!
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Can you explain clearly what is determined as a gift and how does one prove on the administritve papers that it is indeed a gift ( by that i don't mean bu simply ticking a box!)?

I live in France, I have family and friends in the UK to whom i send gifts/ presents, and indeed i receive the same, the values of which often come well within the realms of being taxed ./ dutied.

Similarly I have occasionally shared camera kit, borrowing / lending with other togs .
These products have been purchased and had all vat etc added and paid for at that time .

I have to wonder if these exchanges now will incur fees for the recipient of say a lens I loan out and then again when it is returned to me.

Just flirkin wonderful if that is how the system is going to function!
 
Asha said:
Can you explain clearly what is determined as a gift and how does one prove on the administritve papers that it is indeed a gift ( by that i don't mean bu simply ticking a box!)?

I live in France, I have family and friends in the UK to whom i send gifts/ presents, and indeed i receive the same, the values of which often come well within the realms of being taxed ./ dutied.

Similarly I have occasionally shared camera kit, borrowing / lending with other togs .
These products have been purchased and had all vat etc added and paid for at that time .

I have to wonder if these exchanges now will incur fees for the recipient of say a lens I loan out and then again when it is returned to me.

Just flirkin wonderful if that is how the system is going to function!
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I can’t explain it clearly (sorry), other than ticking a box, I suspect all will become clear(er) over the next few weeks
 
Anyway when we buy from Japan, China, US etc do we have the same problem.
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From the free paragraph of today's Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...nese-sellers-vat-loophole-is-closed-j9wnplf0b
The price of Chinese products sold on Amazon and eBay has jumped after tougher tax rules came into force on January 1.

Online marketplaces now have to account for the VAT paid on products sold on their platforms by third party sellers through deducting the tax at source. The change was made amid growing concern that thousands of mainly Chinese sellers were evading the tax by using fake VAT numbers and shell companies to sell products in effect tax-free.

Analysis of platforms such as eBay and Amazon suggests that the move has had an instant effect, with potentially tens of thousands of products rising in price significantly overnight. Many items are now about 20 per cent more expensive.

Campaigners want HM Revenue and Customs to ...........
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excalibur2 said:
WTF..all confusing as checking on the net it's goods over £135 that has more of a problem for us in the UK

Dunno if this link was before Jan 1st https://transferwise.com/gb/import-duty/from-china
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That's really just talking about Import Duty Brian, rather than VAT, and seems to pre-date Jan 1st
As your parcel will be from outside the EU, you may be charged VAT or excise duty on it. You'll also need to pay customs duty on gifts or other goods from China if they're worth more than a certain value.
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Peter B said:
That's really just talking about Import Duty Brian, rather than VAT, and seems to pre-date Jan 1st
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h'mm the beurocrats here will enjoy all the red tape for something £1-£10 from China (updated my previous post) as it will justify their jobs.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well the UK imports more goods from the EU than we export, so it's in the interest of the EU to sort this mess out.
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That is a complete misunderstanding of the situation. All the major European countries trade far more with each other than they do with us, for example the UK is only 6% of all German export trade. So the real question is is it worth trading with the UK if it means a lot of extra cost? Assuming a typical business makes 20% profit on the 6% then the actual value to the company is 1.2% and at those levels it might be easier to just not bother and take a 1.2% cut in profits especially while a cut in production might help alleviate pressures due to Covid.
 
excalibur2 said:
In the EU nothing was done re buying from China and now out, the bureaucrats are unleashed.
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The EU will have their own import VAT arrangements later in the year (these were due to come in the same time as ours, but were postponed because of Covid). As we'll probably end up doing with many other things, we've basically followed an EU line without having any influence over their decision, but haven't implemented our version very well. Traders in China (etc.) will have to make tax arrangements with the EU (they only need to do this once to trade with all 27 countries) and independently with us (if they can be bothered to access the much smaller UK market).

But we'll probably notice the effect on UK - EU trade more, because companies that operate mostly within the Single Market won't have to do anything new to trade with other EU countries, but will have to deal with HMRC if they want to trade with us (which for some won't be worth the hassle).

I guess ending the VAT exemption for low cost imports is intended to counter abuse of the system by people like those grey market traders who put some spurious low values on their customs declarations, as well as to level the playing field on cheap goods, where local traders are currently at an unfair disadvantage.
 
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sirch said:
That is a complete misunderstanding of the situation. All the major European countries trade far more with each other than they do with us, for example the UK is only 6% of all German export trade. So the real question is is it worth trading with the UK if it means a lot of extra cost? Assuming a typical business makes 20% profit on the 6% then the actual value to the company is 1.2% and at those levels it might be easier to just not bother and take a 1.2% cut in profits especially while a cut in production might help alleviate pressures due to Covid.
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H'mm you make it sound like the EU is not bothered whether we are in or out and only upset at the UK not coughing up £39 billion each year. ;)
 
There was no red tape previously. Now it's a nightmare, I'm afraid those sunlit uplands are no longer available if you thought the last 40 years were 'confinement' that was luxury compared to our Brexit lockdown (in addition to the covid one).

Just this morning I asked for prices from a UK supplier to be told some of the items I wanted came from Europe and where no longer available as the manufacturer doesn't want to be bothered with the UKs new paperwork. Unfortunately many of the specialised laboratory devices sold by that company are not available from other sources.

Hopefully there will be some specialist distributors setting up business to deal with the brexit import mess, so such items will become available again. They may offer a service to private individuals too, similar to some of the shipping services available from the US.

I think the latest on importing is shown here:
www.gov.uk

VAT and overseas goods sold directly to customers in the UK

How sellers deal with VAT for goods from overseas that they sell direct to customers in the UK.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
www.gov.uk

VAT and overseas goods sold to customers in the UK using online marketplaces

How online marketplaces will deal with VAT for goods from overseas that are sold to customers in the UK.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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www.bbc.co.uk

EU firms refuse UK deliveries over Brexit tax changes

Some EU specialist firms stop delivering to the UK because of tax changes that took effect on 1 January.
www.bbc.co.uk

'"For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.
"Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea.
"If every country decided to behave in the same way, then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error."
Dutch Bike Bits said it had many customers within the UK and would like to be able to trade with them.
"Not being able to send parcels to the UK does not work in any way in our favour and it is not what we wanted," the firm added.
"If you're angry about this, and you may well be so, please contact your elected representative in the UK."'

'... Meanwhile, mail and freight company TNT has said it is now imposing a surcharge of £4.31 on all shipments between the UK and the EU.'
 
sirch said:
For some it could be life-or-death
www.theguardian.com

Mother fears son could die as Brexit stops medical cannabis supply

Government gives two weeks notice that access to epilepsy treatment for nine-year-old Alfie Dingley will end
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Can't we make it here, same for other goods from the EU...it's about time the UK went back to the industrial revolution for making things..and labour cost? well plenty of people have been allowed into the UK with no school etc qualifications and they as well as Brits can be trained, so more jobs. I read many years ago that the German car industry had many Turkish immigrants?
 
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excalibur2 said:
Can't we make it here, same for other goods from the EU...it's about time the UK went back to the industrial revolution for making things..and labour cost? well plenty of people have been allowed into the UK with no school etc qualifications and they as well as Brits can be trained, so more jobs. I read many years ago that the German car industry had many Turkish immigrants?
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Not easily or quickly. You can't just spin up manufacturing facilities unless you have resources to hand, and even then there can be obstacles. You need to invest in buildings, plant, infrastructure, as well as staff skilled to do the work, and you either need to be based near a suitable workforce, or offer enough incentive for them to come to you. This all requires money and time to get going. Unless there's a big enough market to make a return on this investment, it likely won't happen, or would be unsustainable over the longer term.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Can't we make it here
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Because the Tory party have a massive hang-up about "drugs" AFAIK it's illegal to grow cannabis in the UK so no we can't and as Nige says even if it was legal not only would we have to build facilities and gain the expertise but many industrial processes are covered by international patents so at best you have to get a license agreement (and pay royalties) or at worse the patent holder won't grant you a license so you have to invent a whole new process from scratch.
 
sirch said:
Because the Tory party have a massive hang-up about "drugs"
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Is this true? I mean more so than other parties? We had 16 years of Labour rule and they didn't change a thing. That's more time in power than the Tories have had so far and indeed are likely to have.
 
FishyFish said:
Not easily or quickly. You can't just spin up manufacturing facilities unless you have resources to hand, and even then there can be ostacles. You need to invest in buildings, plant, infrastructure, as well as staff skilled to do the work, and you either need to be based near a suitable workforce, or offer enough incentive for them to come to you. This all requires money and time to get going. Unless there's a big enough market to make a return on this investment, it likely won't happen, or would be unsustainable over the longer term.
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Well Nige I realise that but it can be annoying watching the TV series "how it is made" and a small country like the Netherlands produces things like an enormous green house for growing tomatoes, even escape slides for aircraft, salvage ships etc and I think to myself where are our entrepreneurs\engineers etc..it seems all the talented people are in the city as bankers etc
We were the first in the world to build a nuclear power station and now asking the Chinese or French to build them :rolleyes:
 
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