Buying used film gear from Europe?

Well Nige I realise that but it can be annoying watching the TV series "how it is made" and a small country like the Netherlands produces things like an enormous green house for growing tomatoes, even escape slides for aircraft, salvage ships etc and I think to myself where are our entrepreneurs\engineers etc..it seems all the talented people are in the city as bankers etc

There are many innovative companies in the UK too, selling their goods around the world, but the point here was about EU based manufacturers no longer selling into the UK because it's now too costly for them to do so, They still have the advantage of being able to sell easily to the rest of the EU without restrictions though. Even if they were to establish, a UK company formed to manufacture the same items would either be limited to a much smaller marketplace, or have to compete with an established EU supplier who doesnt't have the same customs overheads and costs when selling within the EU.

We were the first in the world to build a nuclear power station and now asking the Chinese or French to build them :rolleyes:

Because they will build them for a much lower cost is the main reason. They have established designs for such facilities and the existing experience to fabricate them. I don't know what, if any, reactor designs any UK companies have, but I suspect we would be starting largely from scratch with all the (vast) expense that would entail.*


* I'm not an expert on the nuclear industry at all, so please feel free to correct any of this if I'm off the mark.
 
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Teething troubles, I mean what could possibly go wrong with blowing loads of air through a stack of hot carbon?

The story of Nuclear in the UK is that we went for AGRs when the rest of the world went PWR. Fair to say that AGRs to date have been safer (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima) but very bespoke to the UK and more expensive, not helped by the fact that the CEGB seems intent on doing their own thing at every possible opportunity (they even wrote their own computer programming language). Some political party or another then sold off what was left of the industry to foreign buyers.
 
:eek: but we import extra electricity from France. It seems to me the politicians would rather buy from France than create jobs to produce more of our own electricity over the years.

It's more expensive to generate electricity from non-renewable sources in the UK. We attach a carbon tax to energy generation from coal, gas, oil etc.as part of out commitment to combat climate change. This means it's cheaper to import non-renewable-derived energy from other countries such as France. The aim is for us to become more self sufficient through renewable energy sources such as wind farms over time. The renewable energy industry is a valuable one and something we should aim to become leaders in - it will produce skilled jobs and valuable exports.
 
Isn't there a special area for Politics on the TP Forum?

rather than the political opinions posted here it would be nice to keep members own political views elsewhere IMO
 
Now...buying stuff from Europe - how's it going?

H'mm it looks like some UK distributors are jumping on the band wagon??? as just bought an Ipad\iphone usb lead from Corby for 99p with free del and is now £1.49...maybe they get their stock from China....beats me how they can make a profit., with free del, handling\stocking and manufactures cost and shipping.
 
we import extra electricity from France. I


If I'm going to be stuffed with import fees of whatever description should I acquire photography products from the UK, I bl**dy well hope the same gesture is demanded of you lot for receiving our electricity :exit::LOL::LOL:
 
The VAT part is actually an EU Tax change, its just that the EU has delayed its implementation from 1/1/2021 to 1/7/2021 - so all of this is going to happen further down the line for EU states. the UK decided to implement it on the original date

so after 1/7/21 if you are a Hong Kong company shipping items less than £135 into either EU or UK you will have to account for the VAT due, and will therefore need both UK and EU VAT Reg Nos, I assume that the EU VAT Reg will be at standard rates as each member state often has different VAT rates!

Its a policy to make sure that VAT is collected on low value goods, which often passed under the radar
 
Is this true? I mean more so than other parties? We had 16 years of Labour rule and they didn't change a thing. That's more time in power than the Tories have had so far and indeed are likely to have.
Point of order, we had 16 years of "New Labour". I'm not saying old Labour would have relaxed the law on cannabis just that I wouldn't want to see anything that suggested the Labour of Blair and Brown was in anyway remotely different to the current shower in power or opposition.
 
The other side of the coin:
'Chris Hickson, a retired logistics and freight forwarding expert living in France, said many people may have been surprised because they believed the tariff-free trade deal negotiated between the UK and EU meant there would be no such extra charges. “Unfortunately, tariffs are not the same as customs duties,” Hickson said. Customs duty is a charge that has to be paid on many goods imported into the EU from countries outside the European customs union – including Britain.'

This is obviously going to hit British exporters to the EU. Unless they are selling something unique (perhaps one of our innovative jams and marmalades), an EU customer will be better off using a supplier within the Single Market & Customs Union.
 
The other side of the coin:

This is obviously going to hit British exporters to the EU. Unless they are selling something unique (perhaps one of our innovative jams and marmalades), an EU customer will be better off using a supplier within the Single Market & Customs Union.

I can tell you my own recent anecdotal experience about this, as a EU citizen who used to trade quite a bit with the UK. Couple of recent examples from ebay

1. I was meaning to buy a film scanner from a UK seller. This was in December. I initially convinced him to ship tracked/insured to Europe at my expense. However he then decided to do a UK-only sale, when things got clearer wrt Brexit and he decided he didn't want to deal with researching any VAT surcharges and other newly arisen complications. I agreed, and purchased my scanner from a French dealer (another type, not exactly the one I wanted, sadly - but it does the job). The UK seller's scanner did sell, at a really low price, much lower than what I was prepared to bid - presumably going to a local buyer. We both lost on a good deal I think.

2. I was in the market for a couple of Minolta SLRs and lenses a couple of days ago. There are a few ebay power sellers based in the UK who had some near mint samples. I decided to skip them. Their samples were not particularly special-looking, or particularly cheap anymore, or particularly easy to obtain anymore. By this I mean that, whereas I would previously use a UK seller to source photo gear in good condition at a decent price, there is no no reason anymore to prefer a UK seller, as I will be able to find samples in similar condition elsewhere (Japan, Germany), for a similar financial outlet, if I play wisely. Long story short I bought my SLR from Japan (with me in 3 days via FedEx, no VAT/customs surcharge) and my lenses via a Dutch seller. The advantage of the UK was one of being a well stocked 'local' market - now no more.

The new situation means I will likely stop purchasing kit from the UK. As Reture says, I will likely only consider the UK market for unique UK goods. A Naim amplifier. REGA turntables. A new Intrepid camera. But for stuff I can find elsewhere I will use European suppliers now, and try to reshape any purchase decisions around their offer.
 
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The VAT part is actually an EU Tax change, its just that the EU has delayed its implementation from 1/1/2021 to 1/7/2021 - so all of this is going to happen further down the line for EU states. the UK decided to implement it on the original date

so after 1/7/21 if you are a Hong Kong company shipping items less than £135 into either EU or UK you will have to account for the VAT due, and will therefore need both UK and EU VAT Reg Nos, I assume that the EU VAT Reg will be at standard rates as each member state often has different VAT rates!

Its a policy to make sure that VAT is collected on low value goods, which often passed under the radar

The hated VAT was a European idea and on UK entry into the EU the UK had to change our tax system which now hits the poorest people than the rich for their disposable incomes.
 
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Just this morning I asked for prices from a UK supplier to be told some of the items I wanted came from Europe and where no longer available as the manufacturer doesn't want to be bothered with the UKs new paperwork. Unfortunately many of the specialised laboratory devices sold by that company are not available from other sources.

Hopefully there will be some specialist distributors setting up business to deal with the brexit import mess, so such items will become available again. They may offer a service to private individuals too, similar to some of the shipping services available from the US.

I think the latest on importing is shown here:
Mike, I think this answers my original question, at least to my satisfaction, particularly the second link about online marketplaces, which I think must refer to fleabay and the like. Looks like EU individual sellers don't get loaded up with much extra red tape, the marketplace does. But AFAICS I get landed with VAT and duty if applicable!

This thread has been fascinating, and I'm genuinely sorry for some of you on here who's way of working has been seriously disrupted. In general the thread has been interesting and informative without too much politics or vitriol (again IMHO), but it obviously has the potential to spiral somewhat. Not sorry I opened the thread, and maybe it was in the wrong place, but the filmie folk probably wouldn't have seen it in the "other place".

So going forward can everyone (including you, Brian ;) ) please keep it reasonably factual and leave the politics out of it. So not why this happened, good or bad, but what's happening and its implications?

And if @TheBigYin (to whom many plaudits for support of this forum, and for restraint) thinks it should be moved elsewhere, no worries!
 
I wonder what happens with warranties? Previously you'd get the standard EU 2 years but as UK is a third country would you get that same warranty if you bought from the EU now?

Also what happens with sending items to be serviced in the EU? My mamiya was serviced and repaired in Germany. You could just put things in a box and send them.
 
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For us, just looking to buy from the UK suppliers we know and trust, it's made it more expensive. Wondering if there's others here who know good suppliers in the EU? Given the Finland mention above for example, I know Kameratori in Tempere are a well respected supplier of large format and other equipment. But curious to find a good supplier of paper stocks and other supplies, much as Silverprint could be relied upon for, but within the EU.
I've had good results from Macodirect and FotoImpex, both based in Germany.
 
I wonder what happens with warranties? Previously you'd get the standard EU 2 years but as UK is a third country would you get that same warranty if you bought from the EU now?

Also what happens with sending items to be serviced in the EU? My mamiya was serviced and repaired in Germany. You could just put things in a box and send them.
I guess you'd have as much of a warranty buying from EU as from any other 3rd country, that is... it depends! Best read any warranty small print very carefully.

For servicing items, I believe you'd have to complete the same sort of paperwork as if you're exporting them. Much safer to buy from a UK supplier and get your service likewise. While that's possible, of course.
 
Members usually go "slightly\related" off topic when all questions re buying from Europe etc (or any other different subject posted)........... have been answered.
For me, a few posts explained it all from buying\selling to Europe or other countries.
 
I so desperately want to rant, but I shall refrain as I don't want to give @The Big Yin a headache :D

Coincidentally... can we have an "I Love TBY" emoji? :D

Frankly, I want to rant a bit about this myself, but if I do, I'll have to move it to the hot topics, and get one of my fellow moderrators to ban me for inappropriate language.

and sorry, we've run out of spaces for additional emoji's.... (unless they can recycle this one 1610272099778.png I guess....)

The EU will have their own import VAT arrangements later in the year (these were due to come in the same time as ours, but were postponed because of Covid). As we'll probably end up doing with many other things, we've basically followed an EU line without having any influence over their decision, but haven't implemented our version very well. Traders in China (etc.) will have to make tax arrangements with the EU (they only need to do this once to trade with all 27 countries) and independently with us (if they can be bothered to access the much smaller UK market).

But we'll probably notice the effect on UK - EU trade more, because companies that operate mostly within the Single Market won't have to do anything new to trade with other EU countries, but will have to deal with HMRC if they want to trade with us (which for some won't be worth the hassle).

I guess ending the VAT exemption for low cost imports is intended to counter abuse of the system by people like those grey market traders who put some spurious low values on their customs declarations, as well as to level the playing field on cheap goods, where local traders are currently at an unfair disadvantage.

it's my understanding that we've basically just done what the EU were going to do, but chosen to do it as soon as we've officially left the EU, and that the EU will eventually get around to their (probably better implemented) version in due course. Its definitely in place even for small bits - I bought 2 sets of watch hands (don't get much smaller than that) for about £4 each, from different suppliers, and both transactions had a 20" vat charge applied at point of sale. The real issue though for companies that don't trade a great deal with the UK is the charge that is levied, and costs involved in setting up for dealing with HMRC as a seperate entity, in addition to what they'll need to do as a single setup for the EU - there'll be a on-cost passed on to UK customers, or the company will simply look at the cost of registering, see that it's about the same as the profit margin on their last years sales and say "screw it" and stop trading with the UK.

Even a UK company has chosen to stop selling in the UK. :facepalm:


They're a small (but quite profitable) subsidiary of Selle Royale in Italy. It's more a "oh crap we now need to "fork" our distribution network arrangements setup issue than anything else... With free cross-border traffic it makes/made sense to have a single worldwide warehousing and distribution point, and as Brooks are pretty tiny in terms of production numbers, selling WAY less than the Main brand, and probably a fraction of say SR's other more niche brand Fizik....


Isn't there a special area for Politics on the TP Forum?

rather than the political opinions posted here it would be nice to keep members own political views elsewhere IMO
It would be best if we kept to the usual F&C thought model of "gentlemens club" yes... as in discussion of religion or politics will mean that the decanter is moved away from the member in question and they'll be asked to retire for the night...
 
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This thread has been fascinating, and I'm genuinely sorry for some of you on here who's way of working has been seriously disrupted. In general the thread has been interesting and informative without too much politics or vitriol (again IMHO), but it obviously has the potential to spiral somewhat. Not sorry I opened the thread, and maybe it was in the wrong place, but the filmie folk probably wouldn't have seen it in the "other place".

So going forward can everyone (including you, Brian ;) ) please keep it reasonably factual and leave the politics out of it. So not why this happened, good or bad, but what's happening and its implications?

And if @TheBigYin (to whom many plaudits for support of this forum, and for restraint) thinks it should be moved elsewhere, no worries!

Chris, it's been an informative thread - and surprisingly free of politics considering it is after all part of the aftermath of a massively politically driven upheaval the likes not seen for a couple of generations (as in, when we joined...)

I'd like to thank everyone for keeping their own political leanings / opinions largely out of this thread - i'll admit I actually struggled myself as my own personal bias is probably quite wekk known to most of you - I may be on the staff here, but remember, all the moderators on here were members of the forum first, for quite some time, before getting the keys to the dungeons... - and so, you have to realise that we are entitled to our own opinions too... Fortunately, we have a fairly well balanced bunch, in that we have political leanings from across the spectrum, and we are all professional enough that if it's something that "presses our personal buttons" we'll kick it around in the staff-room and get opinions from all sides before acting. Thats why sometimes political bias hot-potato posts take a little while to get jumped on - we're only human and we want to get things right...

as it stands there's no need for it to move anywhere - but - Scarborough Warning Time - any posts that ARE deemed political, will see the post deleted and the person posting thread banned/forum banned as deemed appropriate (that's the " decanter is moved away from the member in question and they'll be asked to retire for the night.. " reference from my last post...)
 
The hated VAT was a European idea and on UK entry into the EU the UK had to change our tax system which now hits the poorest people than the rich for their disposable incomes.
We were moving towards a more general sales tax in any case. The previous Purchase Tax had started out as a levy on genuine luxury goods in the Second World War, but by the 60s the tax burden was shifting to everyday items:

Douglas Jay MP (Labour) in 1962:

'Now, after these eighteen months of manipulation, the tax on cars has come down from 50 per cent. to 25 per cent., the tax on clothes, boots and shoes has doubled from 5 per cent. to 10 per cent., and the tax on sweets has gone from nothing to 10 per cent. The tax on other more expensive items in the highest range has, of course, come down, though only slightly, from 50 per cent. to 45 per cent. Altogether, this represents a massive switch within the Purchase Tax structure lightening the burden on those who buy motor cars and aggravating it on those who buy clothes, boots and shoes and some other things. This inevitably means a shift of tax on to those with the lower rather than the higher incomes. I do not think that the Chancellor will deny that it is all part of a plan to make the Purchase Tax not a selective tax with some sort of social purpose, but a general indirect tax falling indiscriminately on all articles of ordinary consumption, closer to the more reactionary system of taxation which prevails on the Continent of Europe.'


Since 1973, UK governments on both sides of the political spectrum have been enthusiastic adopters of VAT, which brings in huge revenues. Our current rate of 20% is substantially higher than the EU minimum of 15%. I don't see us dropping it any time soon, though we are of course perfectly free to do so.
 
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Don’t worry about it. All the financial benefits of Brexit for ordinary people will already have offset any import costs due to duty, VAT and red tape*


*Only applicable to F&C members who suffer from extremely heavy periods.
 
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