Beginner Camera choice

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Richard
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Can somebody help it seems to be a minefield when trying to choose a camera. This being a sudden urge for me to take up photography what do I need to look for in a camera? I do feel I pick things up quite quickly and am quite technically minded so not scared of having to mess with settings but where do you start. I would like shoot landscapes and maybe some nature shots.

Does anybody have any advice I don't really have a budget as not sure what price range will get me what I want.

Thanks Crabbie
 
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I suppose you could start by asking yourself some basic questions...

- Do you want something you can fit in a pocket?
- Maybe you'd be happy to carry a larger camera in a bag?
- Do you want a fixed lens camera or an interchangeable lens camera?
- Budget. I know you said you're not sure yet but cameras cost anything from a few £ to thousands so maybe it'd be an idea to have a budget range in mind.

You should also keep in kind what you want to take pictures of, how you are going to take the pictures (handheld or tripod mounted, will you be out in the rain or knee deep in a stream or only taking pictures on nice sunny days...) and how you are going to look at your pictures, are they going to be printed to A3 and examined with a magnifying glass or mostly viewed on a tablet. All these things could matter.

Personally I'm happiest with smaller gear and I've therefore sold off all my DSLR stuff and now only have mirrorless cameras. Maybe you could read up on DSLR's and mirrorless cameras and see if either or neither float your boat.

Hope that helps :D Probably not... but at least you have something to think about :D
 
First of all you really do need to set a budget because sods law states you will find one better a little more expensive, then allow for at least a memory card in the cost
You really need to get a hands on feel of a camera whatever make you chose. ,Although they do the same job the menues are differently or at least set out differently and you may prefer one to another..
Decide on what type of camera DSLR (Digital Single Lens Reflex) which can accept different lenses or even a compact that fits into a pocket. or even a mirrorless camera.
Also if looking at a DSLR camera also look at the cost of lenses for future reference.

Don't do what I did and go for what I thought was the right camera only to find you outgrow it and go for one further up in the camera range, I upgraded 4 times , Nikon D70s- D200-D300 now D800 and lost a lot of money doing so.
Ok a higher priced camera may have features you don't need at the moment but as you get more into photography you will be pleased no upgrade is necessary..
What may put you off is not knowing what setting does what so start off with the camera (auto) deciding then do shutter-priority- apeture-iso etc in turn as you get used to each

There are good companies out there that sell "grey "Imports, that is not being sold through an authorised dealer and a lot cheaper. If you want advice on them seek them out then ask on here, most have bought something from them

this link may help to see what you can afford .

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/

Oh bye the way you might see one member preferring a particular make to another, that is personal choice and say get this make or get that make, I say get what suits you.

It is the person behind the camera that makes a picture, the camera only captures that image
 
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Whatever the camera I always choose one with a viewfinder, holding it against your face seems to bring an extra point of steadiness.
 
For me the starting point is what subjects are you interested in then budget.
 
Budget is around £1k as for subjects would be mainly buildings, landscape and some nature.
 
Budget is around £1k as for subjects would be mainly buildings, landscape and some nature.
"... and some nature" is the key part of this.

Buildings and landscapes are pretty forgiving subjects. They don't move around, you can usually get as close to them as you need. Choosing a camera (or a camera plus lens) for buildings and landscapes is pretty straightforward. You can get decent results with even the most basic kit

But "some nature" changes the game significantly. Animals have this annoying tendency to move quickly and unpredictably, so the speed and accuracy of your autofocus system can be important. Animals often inhabit environments that aren't brightly lit, and/or they like to be active around dawn and dusk, so the ability of your camera to work in low light can be important. And animals tend to be quite small and/or quite far away, and often both, so having a long lens is important. If you're using an SLR or mirrorless camera that accepts interchangeable lenses, it's quite likely that your "nature" lens would be used only for nature and you'd have one or more other lenses for everything other than "nature". That can have a big impact on your budget.
 
On £1000 budget with your interests I would get a Canon 70d with the 18-55 kit and the 10-18 ef-s lens. I have 70d and it does all a beginner could want whilst offering lots more advanced functions to grow into. Should be good price with the 80d out now. Not small but feels very solid. Definitely need to handle a few brands/types to get right match for your hands!
 
On £1000 budget with your interests I would get a Canon 70d with the 18-55 kit and the 10-18 ef-s lens. I have 70d and it does all a beginner could want whilst offering lots more advanced functions to grow into. Should be good price with the 80d out now. Not small but feels very solid. Definitely need to handle a few brands/types to get right match for your hands!
Would that cover 'some nature'.

As Stewart rightly says, as far as kit is concerned, shooting wildlife is a game changer.

Someone with no experience at all will stumble in without realising this.
 
Would that cover 'some nature'.

As Stewart rightly says, as far as kit is concerned, shooting wildlife is a game changer.

Someone with no experience at all will stumble in without realising this.
Sorry - only saw words landscape and architecture for some reason. Only cover very tame nature with that set up [emoji4]

That is the only real frustration with my kit as can only dream of a.) affording and b.) justifying the price of the glass needed for serious wildlife.

Maybe 2nd hand 7d and 400 mm canon for around £1000?
 
Well, nature covers a lot of beasties, from millimeters to meters is size, and a lot of distances too. A very broad subject.
 
Almost ANY brand new entry level DSLR today, will undoubtedly have far more capability than you can make use of. An awful lot of older, second hand entry level DSLR's will also still have far more functionality & capability than you can make much use of.

So to offer the conclusion before the explanation; go to a shop; and get an entry level DSLR and the 'kit' lens that comes with it; probably an 18-55mm zoom. Almost ANYTHING is likely more than good enough to be getting on with.

Incumbunts in the market are Canon & Nikon; these have most users, and so the best support for know-how on using them, as well as the largest number of available accessories and lenses, at the most competitive prices, new or used., which makes them a very useful place to start and see where it takes you.

Pick the one that's cheapest, and you fnd easiest to hold, turn on and take a picture with!

DONT buy more than you need! Save your money to expand your kit, as and when you discover something may be more helpful; be that a different lens or a tripod, or a flash gun.. you dont have to have it ALL straight away!

AND you'll likely get far more, NOT from buying gear, but buying bus tickets (or other transport means!) to get out, and about and just find things to take photo's of! Gears good, but practice is better!

Meawhile.. your starting premise, that you are technically minded and pick things up quick; implies that you have the idea that making photo's is all about working the camera, and that that its complicated. IT ISN'T.

Photography ISN'T about faffing with cameras, its about making PICTURES.

The technical side of photography, isn't all that complicated. You have a camera; a light tight box with a bit of glass on the front that projects an image onto a bit of silicone (or film!) inside, which records that mage.

Dont let in enough light, the picture comes out dark or completely black; let in too much, it comes out light or completely white; trick, is to let in 'just enough' light to make a picture.

Camera has three basic controls for this; first is the shutter speed that times how long light's allowed 'in', and the 'aperture' which is like a tap and controls the brightness of light getting 'in', and you have the ISO 'sensitivity' of the sensor (or film speed), which sets how bright or dim the camera makes the picture for the light it gets.

Secondary effect of these controls on the picture; the aperture effects how much 'Depth of Field' or how far in-front or behnd the point you focus on in a scene, objects remain 'in focus'. The shutter speed controls motion blur. Faster the shutter more you freeze any movement. ISO.. effects 'noise' a sort of graininess you can get in pictures in poor light when the contrast is very low and the camera struggles to decide exactly what colour individual pixel's should be when there's not a lot of difference.

If you are taking a photo of something moving; say a racing car; you will probably want a fast shutter speed to freeze the motion, but you probably dont need a lot of Depth of field, so you can use a larger aperture and a faster shutter. If you are taking a photo of a mountain, its probably not going anywhere in a hurry, so you can use a slower shutter speed, but you probably want a lot of front to back focus, so us a much smaller aperture; and in either case, set an ISO to get an exposure with as little noise as possble.

THAT is pretty much it, in a nut-shell. And you DONT even need to know that much to take great pictures.... the camera will do all that stuff for you!

THIS is opening a can of worms; but, most modern cameras are absolutely fantastc in thier electrickery. They have very good sensors to focus the lens; they have fantastic metering systems to assess the light levels, and amazing 'expert programming' in them to decide what 'settings' are most likely 'best' in any given situation. And they even have a few added 'modes' for you to help tell them what might be better, by way of 'portrait' or 'sports' or 'landscape' settings, that help them do the job even better, and you can treat them pretty much as 'point and press' and concern yourself with NONE of the 'technical' stuff, and concetrate only on what you want a picture of.

Which is to point at a very slippery precipice between being a 'photographer' and being a 'Camera Geek'. Very very easy to loose sight of the wood for the trees, getting bogged down in the technicalities, and spending more time looking AT the camera than THROUGH the camera, making settings not pictures!

And wonderful world of consumer electronics has made this even more slipery than it has ever been! In the 'olden days' cameras just DIDN'T have all this level of sophistication or oportunity to twiddle....

I have a rather wonderful old Medium Format 'folder' here to hand, bequithed by an elderly relative who bought it in the 1950's, when it was a very 'seriouse' camera. It has a fixed 105mm lens, six aperture settings, f32 to f6.3, and three shutter speeds; 1/25th, 1/50th & 1/100th. It has no veiw finder, just a wire frame composition guide! And it has to be focused by a scale... you have to actually measure or guess the distance to your subject, then set that measurement on the lever that physically slides the lens forwards or backwards on its rail!

With absoutely no automation or electrickery its its design, you might have had to be a little more 'savvy' about the technical side of things to take a photo with it; but actually? Still not a lot. Outdoors in normal day-light you judged the exposure by the f-16 sunny rule of thumb. If it was a bright clear day you could use a shutter speed the same as the film speed at f16. If it was a bit over cast or dim, you opened up the shutter or aperture a stop, if it was raining or getting dark, maybe two or three. Indoors, you used a flash! Focus? You probaly erred on the side of caution ad set as tight an aperture as possble to maximise Depth of Field, and give yourself more 'margin' around your guestimates of fous distance, but anything much ver 10 feet from the camera would be in focus at any possible aperture anyway, so, unless you were taking close up portraits you probably didn't need to even worry about that, all too much.

So even with a very primative and totally manual camera you might have had to have 'some' idea of the technicalities, but you never needed to know all THAT much, or worry too much about it, and MOST of the job of making great photos was, is and will undubtebly remain, NOT in messing with settings, but looking for things WORTH taking a photo of!

If you look at any of the 'Masters'; this message is repeated over and over and over. They almost ALL say time and time again, that photo's are made in the SEEING not in the settings, and SO many of the masters greatest photo's were taken with cameras like My Uncle's old 'folder' that lacked SO much sophistication, had so few 'settings' you had little to muck about with or bother you BUT looking at the scene and finding the photo you wanted, and then just 'point and press'!

Very easy with modern cameras having so much fiddlability, such a plathora of functions and features ad settngs and knobs and dials and buttons, to forget that all that is SUPPOSED to make the job EASIER!

My DSLR, is the most expensive camera I have ever bought... not that its a particularly expensive one! Its a Nikon D3200, 'entry' level DSLR. But I did NOT spend all that money, to get ALL the 'automation' and 'easement' it's electrickery offers, to turn it all 'off', and follow the Camera-Geek 'snobery' that real photographers always shoot 'manual', and use about as much functionality as my 1970's Zenit film camera, that might fetch a fiver at a car boot sale, and most of that for it's Helios 44 lens, so loved by the 'Adaptor-Fans' who like mounting them on digital cameras and commenting on the Bokah!

I know enough of the technical side that I can, and occassionally do... but honestly, there's not many instances I would make settings much different to those 'auto' would choose; and even less of them, they would make for much better a picture; but PLENTY where its another oportunity for error and cock it up completely! So I'm quite happy to let the camera do the stuff it does 'best' and deal wth the 'technical stuff' and let me deal with the bit it has absolutely NO chance of helping me on, finding stuff to take a photo of!

Meanwhile, the camera has so much inbuilt capability and versatility, even though it's an 'entry level' model, I have had it four years, and I have absolutely no compunction that I 'must' upgrade to anything else! Higher level 'enthusiast' or 'profesional' cameras, have some added features and functionality, knobs and buttons, that 'may' be more or less useful to them in some situations; but at the entry level, they are likely not so useful, and likely just add 'more' to get to grips with and distract from the job of getting n with the job! Merit of 'future proofing' or buying to 'grow in' to the camera is very very marginal in my opinion, and the entry level models, are so thorougly well concieved for the typical 'newby' andoffer so much cope to 'grow in' to the camera ayway, you really dont need to buy that much 'more', until you are sure you can make use of it.. if you ever can!

So, as I said at the start, DONT buy more than you need. and DONT think you have to have as much as you can get right at the start.. you dont.

Entry level camera will probably come with a limited zoom range 18-55mm 'kit' lens... in the greater scheme of things, IF there is any place you might want to put more of your 'spend' it is likely to be, and it's almost certainly better placed on the lenses NOT the camera.

Remember, its in the SEEING not the SETTINGS, so the different framing and perspectve you get from different lenses, will most likely offer you far more oportunities to get the picture you hope for.... BUT, remember, in days of old, most cameras had a fixed and fixed focal length lens, you couldn't swap for a different one, or adjust with a zoom ring; and photographers managed pretty well without that versatility. Particularly 'people & places' general photography, portraits, landscapes, candids and such.

The limited framing of a fixed lens, begged photographers to consider more thier vantage point, rather than a knob on the camera; to get a close up from getting close up, or getting it all in by stepping back, rather than twsting a ring; getting the 'interest' by finding the angle that emphasisises the subject, and getting into the habbit of moving about and LOOKING for the best picture, not expecting a knob to do it for them.

The 18-55 kit zoom of most entry level DSLR's then, is a pretty good starting point. That lack of ultimate zoom range is still pretty useful; it's certainly enough for most general people & places photography; yet limited enough it is likely to encourage you to think a bit more about how to get the picture you want by looking, rather than fiddling, and enough to be getting on with.

So save your money for when you find you really could get the use out of other lenses, and know better what's more important in them.

IF you persue the notion of nature photography, its likely that a longer telephoto will come in handy... although, an awful lot of wildlife isn't so small it's essential, and the old idea of getting closer still works! And works pretty well on smaller game too!

I'm not a nature/wildlife photographer; but the principles still apply, you get more looking through the caera than looking at it; and the skill in that genre is even 'less' in the camera; but in the planning, the patience, and the discipline and diligence of 'stalking'. Some-one I recall once quipped, that the best nature photo's are days of doing nothing and a fraction of a second pressing the button, but its the days of doing nothing that matter the most!

The skill there is so much more beyond the camera, not in it; knowing the subject, where to find them, what they do, and when, and putting yourself in the place to find the photo.. which is equally true of most subjects... people aren't a lot different, even though they are a lot more common; trains planes & automobiles? Similarly, and sports or events or whatever really; same 'skills' of knowing your subject, NOT your camera are so much more 'important'.. and using that to put yourself in the place to find the photo.

THAT is what's important. Doesn't matter what camera you buy, IF you dont know how to put yourself where the photo s going to happen, you wont capture it regardless of how much kit you got or what settings you try!

Which is to bring me back to the conclusion; baffled by the 'minefield' and bewildered by all the choices, cut to the quick; dont get bogged down in the detail; dont get lost in the trees looking for the woods; dont sweat the small stuff.

An entry Level DSLR, new or used, and the 'cheap' 18-55 kit zoom lens that comes with it; is as good a start as any, and designed for the job.
The camera itself matters little.. DONT start by getting sucked into the 'technical' that REALLY is so insignificant, or believing before you begin that it must be, because so many are making so much of it. And don't buy more than you need to.

Also, don't dismiss 2nd Hand. When my daughter started chucking balloons filled with water about near my D3200 for her O-Level school photography, Christmas got brought forwards! And I bought her an older, 2nd hand D3100, for not a lot of money. It's not got the mega-pixel cont of later models; but its more than enough for her to make large scale A3 prints for school display! And to contend with the challenges set by her coursework, now in her A-Level in the subject, exploring different genre's and techniques, she is not held back any by the camera!

So for a fraction of your suggested budget; a similar 2nd hand entry level camera, could be a great way to get going; you could almost treat it as disposable; yet it would likely have a still significant proportion of its cost as residual value in it, if later you decided you wanted or needed to trade up. Don't buy ore than you need; and remember you don't have to expend your entire budget in one go!

And remember; pictures are made by looking THROUGH the camera not AT the camera..... SEEING not SETTINGS
 
Nature would be very few and far between
Then put it on the 'back burner', take the advice for general kit, then when you understand the limitations vs cost and priority you can decide whether it's something that really interests you (enough for the investment).

In order to really improve your photography takes a lot of time and commitment, and you'll only put in that effort if you're really interested in the 'subject', photography is a means to an end - don't fall into the trap of seeing it as an end in itself.
 
... photography is a means to an end - don't fall into the trap of seeing it as an end in itself.
That reminds me of something I saw elsewhere. Wanting to be a writer is not the same as wanting to write. Apparently lots of people want to be writers, but relatively few are prepared to put in the hard work and actually, y'know, write.

Same here. Does the OP want to be a photographer? Or to take photos?
 
That reminds me of something I saw elsewhere. Wanting to be a writer is not the same as wanting to write. Apparently lots of people want to be writers, but relatively few are prepared to put in the hard work and actually, y'know, write.

Same here. Does the OP want to be a photographer? Or to play with cameras?
Nice thoughts, but reading round here sometimes, my edit is possibly more accurate.
 
Nice thoughts, but reading round here sometimes, my edit is possibly more accurate.
No, I think you missed the point. Many people aspire to the self-esteem that comes from being a writer / photographer / artist / footballer / whatever, but are not willing to put in the effort to learn or train. In the context I saw this mentioned, people want to "be writers" but don't want to "write".

You know and I know that being a photographer and taking photos are essentially synonymous, but a lot of people don't realise or understand that.

So I think it's valid to ask whether somebody wants to "be a photographer" or "take photos". They need to - but frequently don't - understand that the *only* route to the former is via the latter.
 
No, I think you missed the point. Many people aspire to the self-esteem that comes from being a writer / photographer / artist / footballer / whatever, but are not willing to put in the effort to learn or train. In the context I saw this mentioned, people want to "be writers" but don't want to "write".

You know and I know that being a photographer and taking photos are essentially synonymous, but a lot of people don't realise or understand that.

So I think it's valid to ask whether somebody wants to "be a photographer" or "take photos". They need to - but frequently don't - understand that the *only* route to the former is via the latter.
Sorry I misunderstood, but I still don't think that many people want to be 'a photographer' (clearly I might be wrong) but blokes do like to buy toys.
 
Well I would like to thank all for their views I do want to gain the knowledge to be able to take good photographs I do often find myself when either walking around or driving thinking that certain things would make a nice photo and how I would like to be able to take that photo. I am willing to learn whatever it takes to do that I am currently looking for some sort of course or even a local meeting for photographers to try and gain some knowledge.
 
Well I would like to thank all for their views I do want to gain the knowledge to be able to take good photographs I do often find myself when either walking around or driving thinking that certain things would make a nice photo and how I would like to be able to take that photo. I am willing to learn whatever it takes to do that I am currently looking for some sort of course or even a local meeting for photographers to try and gain some knowledge.
If you add your location to your profile people will know if they're 'local' to you, someone may offer to let you have a go with some specific empty, and there's a section dedicated to meet-ups etc.

Also look out for other events, workshops etc, they do crop up occasionally.
 
Look out for a local camera club.

You'll then meet like minded people who'll let you play with their toys.

Some might even know enough to give good advice.
 
Well I would like to thank all for their views I do want to gain the knowledge to be able to take good photographs I do often find myself when either walking around or driving thinking that certain things would make a nice photo and how I would like to be able to take that photo. I am willing to learn whatever it takes to do that I am currently looking for some sort of course or even a local meeting for photographers to try and gain some knowledge.
You don't need knowledge.. you just need to stop walking or get out of the car, point a camera and press the buttton... it IS that simple.
There's no great secret to it.. but that's were it starts, diving in and giving it ago!
If you have a camera-phone, there's nothing really been stopping you do it. And many takes more than just 'good' but pretty amazing photo's with camera-phones... you don't need the most sophisticated camera; you don't need a degree in optical engineering, computer programming and fine art! You JUST have to stop walking, stop driving, and take the TIME, when you have these inspirational urges, to point the camera and press the button!!!
THAT is where you start.
 
You don't need knowledge.. you just need to stop walking or get out of the car, point a camera and press the buttton... it IS that simple.

:agree:


So you need to have a camera on you. No good having £1000 of kit and it being at home.
I am trying to always carry my SLR around, and if that's not possible my Ixus. A lot of my recent shots were taken when walking from work to the car park.
I'm taking a lot more photos as until recently I kept leaving my cameras at home, almost forgetting that I had one.
Now I get mad at myself If I don't have one on me.

Unlike the old days when my camera was loaded with 36 exposures, I can take loads, discard the rubbish and no harm done.

This is one of those that I took leaving work today

https://flic.kr/p/PZaYqW

hope that link worked
 
You don't need knowledge.. you just need to stop walking or get out of the car, point a camera and press the buttton... it IS that simple.
There's no great secret to it.. but that's were it starts, diving in and giving it ago!
If you have a camera-phone, there's nothing really been stopping you do it. And many takes more than just 'good' but pretty amazing photo's with camera-phones... you don't need the most sophisticated camera; you don't need a degree in optical engineering, computer programming and fine art! You JUST have to stop walking, stop driving, and take the TIME, when you have these inspirational urges, to point the camera and press the button!!!
THAT is where you start.


Have tried with camera phone but the results are just too poor and in low light there is no point to the camera whatever.
If i am honest i think i would just like the equipment that would at least give me a chance of getting some half decent results and then take it from there.
also the ability of a half decent zoom would be great. (Not sure what kind of issues that would bring to the party though)
 
:agree:


So you need to have a camera on you. No good having £1000 of kit and it being at home.
I am trying to always carry my SLR around, and if that's not possible my Ixus. A lot of my recent shots were taken when walking from work to the car park.
I'm taking a lot more photos as until recently I kept leaving my cameras at home, almost forgetting that I had one.
Now I get mad at myself If I don't have one on me.

Unlike the old days when my camera was loaded with 36 exposures, I can take loads, discard the rubbish and no harm done.

This is one of those that I took leaving work today

https://flic.kr/p/PZaYqW

hope that link worked

Now that's the kind of results i would like to get somewhere near !!
 
Have tried with camera phone but the results are just too poor
So, you have already started... that's good... it's not that you dont know where to begin... you just didn't realise you had!
and in low light there is no point to the camera whatever.
And a first lesson learned. This is very true. It's hard to see in the dark, and cameras struggle more than we do. Scratching the surface of the technical, it's an area where cameras do struggle. ALL of them. Your camera-phone might struggle sooner, but all will at some point.
You don't say what camera-phone you have, not that I could offer advice about it anyway, but sure others might be able to; but it's likely/possible, that you may be able to eek a bit more from your phone hunting through the guides and menus; many have 'some' manual 'settings', and you may find that it has a selectable ISO. Mine, according to my daughter is a complete 'potato', apparently, but I know even that has. It may also be that in low light it is trying to use a very slow shutter, and you are getting motion blur from 'camera shake' hand holding the phone, and you might be able to help that with some sort of support and a self timer.
But it's a 'problem' you will still likely have with a 'better' dedicated camera, sooner or later.
If i am honest i think i would just like the equipment that would at least give me a chance of getting some half decent results and then take it from there
A better camera, may have higher ISO sensitivity settings, that need less light to make a picture; BUT, if the light is poor, the light is poor, and the camera is still likely to struggle; you will likely get poor contrast, and a very 'flat' photo, that is likely to suffer noise in areas there is very little contrast and the camera cant 'see' the detail.
The 'Danger' in that though, is again in your premise, you'd like a camera that will give YOU a better chance... from the off you expect the camera to do the job for you. You dont seem to grasp the concept that its not in the camera, and that its YOU who has to give the CAMERA 'the chance'.
also the ability of a half decent zoom would be great. (Not sure what kind of issues that would bring to the party though)
A lens with a faster aperture, may let in a little more light; but it's still the lack of light that's the problem, and a faster lens wont 'make' more light; and it will rob you of depth of field sharpness.
You may be able to 'hand hold' a better camera to avoid camera shake, one or two shutter speeds slower, either from it's added wight making it a little less wobbly, or from image stabilization in the lens, but you are likely still down in the margins, where the solution is really to use a tripod and self timer or remote release, to stop the camera moving.

On the topic of Depth of Field; camera-phones use tiny little photo-sensors; This introduces what is these days commonly called 'The Crop Factor'. A lens, is a lens is a lens. It has a focal length, and an angle of view. If you put a large sensor behind it, the lens would likely give you a circular picture in the middle, that shows its entire 'Field of View'.. which would likely be rather fuzzy at the edges; but if you put a smaller sensor behind it, the image circle would fall off the edges, and cover the whole sensor. It would 'crop' the image. Magnified to 'view' at the same size, then, the smaller your sensor, the more you crop from the image circle the lens delivers, the bigger your subject 'looks' in the picture you look at. So, smaller sensors have the 'effect' of magnifying the subject, like a longer or 'zoom' lens. Hence so many lenses are quoted or marked as having an 'equivalent' focal length rather than their true one, and its an equivalence to the Angle of View you'd get from a longer focal length lens on a 35mm/FullFrame sensor camera. BUT the equivalence only holds for the angle of View.

As focal length reduces, normally so to does the closest focus distance, and the depth of field, front to back 'sharpness' at any aperture setting. at very short focal lengths, the closest focus distance can be tiny, and the Depth of field enormous, which can to a certain extent make focusing redundant. I have a 12mm fisheye lens for my 35mm film cameras, which is actually fixed focus because the close focus and depth of field is so short, 'everything' is effectively always in focus. I have an incredibly 'short' 4.5mm focal length fish-eye for my 'crop' sensor DSLR. That has SUCH a close focus distance I can literally put the front element against an object and it still be in focus... and again have so much depth of focus everything is sharp, no matter how far away it is. But I also have a little 'Action-Cam', which also has a 4.5mm focal length lens, but the sensor in it is so small, that lens is giving only the 'equivilent' angle of view of a 27mm (Mild Wide Angle) lens on 35mm/Full-Frame, due to the crop factor. BUT, the Depth of Field, front to back sharpness remains that of the 4.5mm lens; which is convenient as it makes that camera 'focus free', which is helpful for an action cam shooting video, and means it doesn't need to have a bulky mechanical focus system or automatic focus trying to track moving subjects to keep them sharp, making the camera bigger and more expensive....

However, point is, same effect is being exploited by phone-cams, to keep them compact and inexpensive, and it's helping enormously when you want to take a 'Landcape' to deliver a huge amount of depth of field sharpness, you wont get with larger sensor cameras, unless you 'stop down' and use a very small aperture, and even then, possibly still not 'as much' front to back sharpness as a smaller sensor and shorter lens. And, it makes focusing that much more critical, and your camera now has to have a more refined focusing system, and probably automatic focusing system.. and great as they may be, they still struggle to 'see in the dark'..

So whilst a 'better camera' may have settings that suggest a solution or work around to your 'low light' conundrum, they can start to work against you, rather than for you, Its ALL swings and roundabouts.. and THIS is where people start falling down that slippery slope, looking AT cameras rather than THROUGH them, looking for 'settings' and convincing themselves that its lack of gear, or lack of settings that is 'The' problem, rather than recognizing that 'The' problem isn't inside the camera, but outside, and you cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear! And Photography is the art of making pictures with LIGHT.. if you don't have it, you don't have it! If I wanted to bake a cake, and don't have milk, eggs and marge in the fridge, no point pointing at the flour and blaming the fridge!

And it's STILL not about the camera giving YOU better chances, but YOU giving the camera better ones! and the further you start to dig into things, the more frustrating it often gets, and the more the camera 'can' do, the less it 'will' do... for you... and the more it demands FROM you to get anything. And unless you make that mental 'switch', and ask not what your camera can do for you but what can you do for your camera, it will make that slippery precipice into camera geekery ever so much more perilous; and leave you likely to tumble after the hoards all chasing a camera that 'gives them' a better chance, spending ever more money to get equipment that will NEVER pull its weight, as the person operating it never does, and who don't even realise that they could, let alone should!

Which brings us back around. Your not 'quite' at the beginning you thought you were. You have some form of picture maker, and you have given it ago. Advice that you need to find the TIME to use it, still applies.

Learning that it doesn't do a great job in low light is just one lesson. It can still probably teach you many many more, most of them other places it will struggle to do a great job, but with a little forethought some time and patience, COULD teach you when, where and how it could, IF you give it a little help, it could do an awful lot better. That lesson, learning or proving, you need to give the camera a chance rather than expect it to have all the aces up its sleeve. You may not be at the end of all that camera can do for you just yet.

Advice as far as choosing a better camera, I think still applies; the entry level DSLR's are pretty much right in the target zone. They can do a lot more for you, BUT, same rules apply, they will always start to run up against the buffers at some point, and 'struggle', and they wont do it all for you; you will still have to learn to recognize when and where you might get a good picture and when and where you might have to give the camera a little help.. and again, low light, you'll run into the same issues, and still neither the problem nor solution will be 'in' the camera, and 'help' may still be in using a tripod and timer, or recognizing that the light just isn't good; and you still need to find the time and patience and put in the effort....

You also need to have the camera with you... which as the camera gets bigger and bulkier, and situations beg 'accessories' to go with it, like a tripod, or a flash gun or whatever, becomes that much less likely, as it starts to become too push to stuff into pockets, and the shoulder bag gets left at home or in the car, and you start 'missing' impromptu photo ops; and have to find even MORE time, to make a dedicated photo-expedition, with the camera.

This, hints at the merits of consumer--compact or CSC cameras instead of a bulkier DSLR.. but I am sanguine on the notion. As said, CSC cameras can be fantastic tools, but they aren't really so appropriate to a beginner. I would be less sanguine about a consumer-compact; for a decade, a couple of these have been my 'pocket' camera and I have got some great results with them despite them being relatively limited, and giving them a little help, often with a hanky or rolled up jumper or something as an improvised 'tripod' and using the self timer, got some great 'low light' shots with them, as well as many other more or less challenging situations. Unfortunately that market has been squashed by the phone-cam, and better consumer compacts now are few and far between, and was actually a significant prompt for me to buy my DSLR four years ago. (and by some dint of irony, start putting my old 35mm 'compact' cameras back in my pocket! But that's another perversion!

In round up; to get going, and go a bit further, you need to change the mind set a little, and take the expectation 'to do the job' off the camera, and put it onto yourself more. That's the 'start' you wanted, and that alone could take you a fair bit further with the Camera-Phone. BUT you still want a 'proper' camera, and for that, the entry level DSLR still looms likely, and is probably your 'best bet';one would undoubtedly launch an expedition into the wonderful world of camera geekery and more pretentious photography, and an adventure of disappointments as you try ever more challenging things you 'might' do with one, and your hopes expectations and standards grow, so your results will seemingly become increasingly more poor in comparison.... before you make another mental adjustment or three and your endevours start to get a little better, as you learn how much YOU have to put in to get them... which is a path we have all been down.... But, all we can do is point you at the gate, and tell you what to expect, and point at a few of the puddles along the way you might want to step around....

So, off you go.... have FUN!





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Budget is around £1k as for subjects would be mainly buildings, landscape and some nature.

Ok, simples. Only my view,
Canon 750D comes with a good kit lens Canon EFS 18 55, add a Canon EFS 55 250 zoom, now you have the kit to see smallish and far. Next a flashgun, there's some very good ones for under £50. Next a bag, look at amazon basics bags, very good value. Well that's my basic kit, comes in well under £1000. But I also have a lot of kit from other stuff like tripods and monopods, focus rails etc.
Tbh that's all you need for a wide range of photographic possibilities and pretty good quality too. It comes in at well under your £1000 budget.
The main thing is, whatever kit you have, is, have it ready to take the picture.
 
I would like to say thanks to all for the kind words also thanks for the bedtime reading Teflon-Mike :)
i will take all the advice and have a good look around over Christmas and hopefully bag myself a January sale Deal.
Just in-case no insult meant for Teflon-mike i really do appreciate you taking your time to respond in such a thorough way

Thanks
 
Here is what I would buy on your budget and with your needs (all second hand, almost never worth buying this stuff new): a Canon 650d (or similar), 15-85 lens, 50mm 1.8 lens and Sigma 100-300 f4. You should still have enough left over for a decent tripod, camera bag and memory card. 15mm should be wide enough to cover landscapes and architecture, and the Sigma for nature, 50 for low light and you should be covered as a starter set up. I would see how you get on and then as you find you niche more and more, you can upgrade the bits you find to be limitations.
 
When I decided to take up digital photography I found it much too difficult to decide between the various trade offs. I'd get the best image quality from a big heavy camera, but the bigger and heavier the less likely I'd be willing to carty it around. I'd get best image quality and versatility from a camera and a good handful of lenses, but then I'd often miss wonderful but brief photo opportunities because I had the wrong lens on the camera at the time. Then there was the system investment question. Did I want to buy into the system with the best range of lenses? Or with the best image sensors? Or with the best accessories such as flash control and remote operation?

So instead of trying to decide in advance what kind of camera I'd be happiest with after a year's experience, I decided I needed to get the experience first. In other words my first camera ought to be an educational tool, the cost of a DIY training course, something I'd wear out or break while learning what I really wanted.

So although I knew I'd probably eventually end up with an exchangeable lens camera, I bought a second hand "bridge" camera with a big sensor and medium range zoom with which to discover what kinds of photography and what kinds of images I'd end up wanting to do.

In fact I broke it, and my next one too, learning how to protect my cameras from damage :) But I've continued the same philosophy of regarding my first purchases in any area, such tripods, long lenses, macro, lighting, etc., as educational tools to be worn out, broken, or if I was lucky, sold on when I upgraded or gave up that avenue.
 
Here is what I would buy on your budget and with your needs (all second hand, almost never worth buying this stuff new): a Canon 650d (or similar), 15-85 lens, 50mm 1.8 lens and Sigma 100-300 f4. You should still have enough left over for a decent tripod, camera bag and memory card. 15mm should be wide enough to cover landscapes and architecture, and the Sigma for nature, 50 for low light and you should be covered as a starter set up. I would see how you get on and then as you find you niche more and more, you can upgrade the bits you find to be limitations.

Yes, he should definitely budget for a bag and memory card. A camera bag and memory card are day 1 requirements. You can't take photo's without the latter, and without the former you'll likely be very wary of taking the camera anywhere for fear of it getting damaged in transit. Buying the right camera bag can be an art form all by itself! Think carefully about the equipment you have, plus what you might want to own in the near future, that will likely need to be carried around with you when choosing one. Otherwise you might find you quickly outgrow your bag - I speak from personal experience on this matter. :)
 
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Whilst a bag is a necessity, the 'right camera bag' is even more difficult to get to than the right camera (whilst also being even simpler to start with).

Just get a bag that'll get you out of the house, if you get serious about the hobby, your 5th and 8th bags will probably be keepers (I'm really attached to 3 different bags currently depending what I'm doing - a rucksack for serious photo trips, a messenger bag that doubles as just a lens bag at weddings and a lightweight travel sling for travelling light).
 
The 'problem' with Camera bags, is they have 'pockets'.

Pockets to put 'things' into.

'Things' you probably don't have....

So they say "Look! You have a pocket! You aught to have something in here! You really NEED.........."and send you ff to e-bay to look for things that might fit in that pocket.

CAMERA BAGS BE DANGEROUS - CAMERA BAGS CAN SERIOUSLY DAMAGE YOUR WEALTH!

And the bigger they are, the more pockets they have, so the greater the tendency!

Earlier advice still holds; recommend to buy a cheaper 2nd hand DSLR & Kit lens you can treat almost as disposable, for £100-£200, doesn't need a camera bag to keep it safe. Or out of sight, out of mind.

Live dangerously! Let the camera 'breath'. Leave it where you can see it. Risk the odd skuff or dent! It's not am irreplaceable family heirloom, its a TOOL! Let it see the light of day! and USE IT! That's what they are for; they don't take pictures very well in a bag!

'Must Have' accessories, LONG before you need start thinking about tripods, flash guns, gadget bags, accessory lenses or anything like that: FAST Memory card. Not necessarily big ones, but ones with a faster write time , and maybe a couple of them, you cant take photo's if the card's full. Most DSLR's don't come with one, as standard anyway, or have 'internal' memory, so you will need one at the very beginning anyway, and you'll likely find the ones n the shop aren't 'the best' or 'best value'.

After your first outing/when cards full, though... you will then have the niggle of what to do with your pictures; and transferring them to a computer, to store or view, where the 'space' they take up on the hard drive 'may' start to become an 'issue' long before anything else, and temptation to 'edit' them another..... But tackling the storage issue; a little external 'pocket drive', something like a Western Digital 'Passport' external hard drive; to keep 'just' to put your photo's on as 'back-up', is a good investment. Doesn't have to be particularly big or expensive; though cheapest will probably be around the £80 mark 'new', and probably around 1Tb... but that aught sort you for a very long time; my entire archive is only about 320Gb, and that's got thirty odd years worth of photo's in it! BUT, get into the habbit from the go get of getting your pictures off the card in the camera and onto a dedicated 'archive drive'. You REALLY dot want them all getting 'lost' when your lap-top gets broken or desk-top upgraded or 'something'. Transfer to PC to view by all means, but keep a 2nd back up copy on a dedicated (and only connected when you make the back-up) drive!

THEN, in the same 'you bought it to use it' mind-set; BATTERIES. Electric-Picture-Makers need electric to make pictures! And likely that the first 'hic-up' you will encounter that stops you getting a photo, wont be lack of lens, or lack of off camera flash, or lack of a tripod, or a filter, or or or... but.... a flat battery! Probably after you have switched it on at the start of the day before going out, looked at the battery indicator, seen it say 3/4 full and thought, "That's OK" then walked around with it turned 'on' for most of the day, and looked at things through it, and with the preview screen 'on' and the focus motor driving the lens to focus on whatever it thinks its pointed at, used an awful lot more battery than the number of pics you have actually taken should warrant! 'Non brand' batteries are pretty cheap too. I got a spare with the 'kit' when I bought the camera, which was pretty handy, but only if it's 'charged'.. and not sat at home in the charger!

Most of my photo's are taken when I'm out and about; on holiday, or on a motorbike-camping trip; and I can flat two batteries in a day, without trying too hard; (Eg a bike rally, there will be loads of ops around the site; then more looking at the 'show', then there'll be the ent's tent and bands come the evening, almost three 'shoots' in one day!) So I have augmented that one 'spare' with two more off e-bay, that came with a 'travel charger', that can be plugged into the car or bike electrics, or a wall socket; so I can keep them charged when out and about for longer excursions; but two batteries is usually enough for most 'day trips' or eve a week-end, if I'm a bit coy to keep an eye on battery use.

This, maxing the 'availability' of the camera; though, is likely to beg more memory cards, because no good having power in the camera, if the card's full, and you are three days from home, and chance to clear them down! And again, out for more extended periods you cant 'clear down' at base, having more cards may be even more the more useful; again, they don't have to be huge, faster is better with most DSLR's, but they can fill up fast, especially if you shoot video. Discipline & Diligence keeping track of them, which are full, which empty, and keeping them 'safe' after shot, can beg some are though; Worth keeping the card cases, and marking the cases so you know which is which, on that.

But, it's all part and parcel; as you 'get into it', so the camera becomes less and less significant; 'know-how' operating the camera likewise; and as far as the 'gear' goes; just like taking photo's, there's more in the preparation and management before and after, the discipline and diligence to making sure you have capacity to take a photo, and manage them after; than in the taking or the twiddling.

And Camera Bags, or in the parlance GADGET BAGS are still dangerous.. they lead to Gadget Question Syndrome! Avoid that slippery slope; don't acquire gadgets, worry about acquiring PICTURES!

And a cheap 2nd hand camera that's no great loss if it gets broke in act of taking pictures is doing far more for you in that objective, than an expensive one, cosseted in a case, or left on a shelf, you daren't get dirty!

Like I said at the start; DON'T think you have to expend the whole budget straight away; You can pick up a good 2nd hand entry level DSLR & Kit lens for around £150. Add a decent memory card or two, and a spare battery, AND a pocket drive for back-up, you could be well away for about £200, and have plenty of change to expand the kit from there; adding memory cards and batteries as required, and afford to by a whole new camera, a couple of times over, if worst comes to! But money in the pot to get a tripod, or extra lenses, and 'stuff' when you 'may' want to start thiking about bags... which WILL we can almost grantee, prove quickly to be the 'wrong' one... because its not the easiest to get the camera in or out of, or its the wong shape to be comfy to carry or, ts pockets start filling, then bulging....
 
Well once again thanks for the great advice could someone give me a brief explanation as to what the numbers mean when choosing lenses or even point me to a website that gives a good explanation.

Thanks in advance
 
Numbers? What numbers?

:D

I'll waffle on about some basic stuff just in case it's all new to you...

The numbers like 28, 35, 50, 85mm and ranges such as 24-70mm and the like are the focal length of the lens and describe the field of view. Single numbers like 35mm describe prime lenses which are fixed length lenses which don't zoom and ranges such as 24-70mm denote zoom lenses. The smaller the number the wider the view and the bigger the number the further off into the distance the reach. For example a 12mm lens will make your front room look massive and a 400mm lens will enable you to almost fill the frame with that little spider on the wall over there. Don't worry, I can't really see into your room :D

Numbers like f1.4, f1.8 and f2.8 are the aperture which is the opening in the lens that lets the light in. The lower the number the bigger the hole which lets the light in, f1.4 being a bigger hole than f4. A big hole is useful for shooting in low light, for achieving a faster shutter speed and for controlling the depth of field. When expressed as something like f3.5-5.6 this states the maximum aperture range of a zoom lens as you go from the widest zoom setting to the longest. You don't have to shoot at these aperture values all the time though, you can "stop" the lens down to a maximum that varies with the lens but could be something like f18, f22 or even f32 or you can stop down to something in-between, like f4 or f8. Note that although you can stop an f2.8 lens down to (for example) f22 you can't open it up to f1.8. If f2.8 is what it says on the lens then that's the maximum.

Other numbers and letters and things such as USM, HSM, ED, Mega OIS and other such mysteries may well be brand specific and best deciphered by visiting the makers web site and hunting around for an explanation or asking someone who knows these things. Some things are however almost standard such as IS which usually means image stabilisation.

Your mileage may vary but my thought processes lead me to look at focal length and aperture first and I'll decipher anything else later if I can be bothered.

If what you want to know isn't explained by the above please ask again and maybe give an example of the numbers you don't quite understand yet.
 
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Mega Pixels MP.. number of 'dots' that make the picture. More pixies, more dots, the higher the 'resolution'.. better the picture may look...the more memory the pictures take up on the card or computer though, and for almost all practical purposes ANYTHING that doesn't come free in a cornflake packet will likely have far more mega pixies than you will need, unless you are wanting to make billboard posters! And virtually everything will have to be down sized for web display.... so bigger may be better, but it's not worth worrying too much over. Anything with more than 10Mpix is plenty.

Lenses, usually quoted by thier 'focal length' in mm. 'zoom' lenses will have two, one for the wide end one for the tele end, something like 18-55 for the usual kit lens on a DSLR, or 28-70 for the 'normal' zoom for full-frame / 35mm film cameras.

Compacts will often tell you the zoom range, say 3x or 5x or 10x or on a super-zoom bridge camera maybe as much as 30x.... this is none to helpful if you don't know what that's a 'times' of though, and few do! so they should give an 'equivilent' rating, like 27-270mm '35mm 'Equivalent', which means the lens isn't a 27-270 'zoom; but the angle of view you get is the same as youd get on larger format/sensor camera.

Reason its not a 27-270 zoom, is that the camera will use a very small sensor... {which probably doesn't effect the number of MegaPixies it may have!} and this introduces a thing called 'The Crop factor'.. where using a small sensor, the sensor only sees a small 'crop' section of the field the lens might offer on a larger sensor.. so enlarged to the same viewing size, you get a smaller angle of view with whatever was in it made bigger, 'like; zooming in.

Which is one of the reasons that Super-Zoom bridge cameras can claim such enormous 'zoom' ranges..... they have an incredibly short starting focal length... maybe only 5mm, so they only have to have perhaps 45mm of travel, and are actually maybe a 5-50mm lens, but that can claim 10x zoom, where a full frame camera's lens, starting at 28mm would have to travel 252mm and be a 28-280 lens to claim the same 10x zoom and offer the same angles of view for it. Same 10x zoom, but less than 1/50th the focal length 'range'.

IF you are looking at compacts & bridge cameras.. be warned... more is not 'better' on the zoom numbers. Anything much over 15x zoom is likely pushing telescope levels of magnification at the tele end, and it is almost impossible to use. Many Maga-zoom Bridge cameras with 30x or more zoom range are pushing 'equivilent' focal lengths as high as 500mm or more. BUT at around 300mm on a full frame camera, which tend to be bigger and easier to hold, and usually beg holding with both hands, the field of view is becoming so 'tight' its difficult to scan and find your subject and then keep it in the frame; meanwhile, the lens magnification is also magnifying camera movement, so you have to have a VERY steady hand to stop the camera shaking and pictures coming out blurry, and by the time you are up to around 500mm, it's getting incredibly difficult to manage. To 'help' avoid camera shake 'blur', we use a high shutter speed; and the old rule of thumb was to keep the shutter speed higher than the lens length.... when cameras often only had 1/1000th of a second as their fastest shutter, that didn't give you many options... now with 1/2000th, or even on some 1/4000th, it gives a couple more..... but to use those very very fast shutter speeds you need to let a LOT of light into the camera, which begs 'fast' apertures, and or high ISO 'sensitivities'.... high ISO sensitivities are now pretty common, and amazing compared to the ASA range we had to work with on film, where ISO400 was about as much as you often got. Now, ISO1600 is available in most cameras, ISO 3200 common and many DSLR's and a few bridge's will have a couple of 'boost' settings that equate to maybe ISO6400, or even ISO12,800.. so you might be able to better use higher shutter speeds to avoid 'blur', but instead get terrible 'noise'.... and it is likely very bad on a compact or bridge, as those lenses DO tend to have pretty restrictive apertures, and especially so at the 'tele' end of thier zoom. so even if you can hand hold that much zoom, it's still not likely to give the most pleasant results. More often, though, the camera, will , on 'auto' settings bridge cameras are more likely to encourage you to use (if they have any manual options or over rides!} the camera will, contrary to what you need at long zoom lengths, drop the shutter speed as the lens is 'zoomed' and the f-no goes up in consequence...

Brings us to the matter of aperture settings or f-numbers, though.Most lenses these days have a variable aperture; a hole that can change size, and lets more or less light through the lens. Smaller the hole, the less light it lets in, but the more 'depth of field' or how far things in front of your subject or behind come out in acceptable sharp focus. Larger aperture lets in more light, but gives less Depth of Field and a things pretty close either side of the subject can start going pretty fuzzy pretty quick.

The f--no though ISN'T the actual hole size; its a ratio of the hole diameter to the focal length of the lens, so f16 isn't the same size aperture on a 29mm lens as it is on a 250mm lens.. BUT, conveniently it lets in the same amount of light... which is what we tend to be bothered about!

Problem arises when looking at the specifications, though that whilst a lens might have a 'range' of aperture settings, say f-4 to f22, they tend to only quote the 'fastest' setting, or 'largest aperture', which as its a ratio is the lowest number. So a 135mm lens might be quoted as just f4.

NOW we get to the niggly bit.... zoom lenses have a variable focal length.... so if they had a fixed aparture size, the f-no would change as you zoomed through the range, as the f-no is a ratio, not a dimension, and whilst you held one dimension constant, you changed the other, so the ratio would change... and on most zooms it usually does! Modern zooms often chuck up some pretty bizare f-numbers these days, as the lenses aren't nice simple things where the sums work easily, and with lots of different bits of glass being shuffled about as you move the zoom ring, none of them have a true focal length, its all 'equivilenced'.... BUT result is that they will quote a zoom lens as having two f-no's, both the fastest setting, one at the wide end, one at the tele end; so for example, the kit 18-55 for my electric picture maker is quoted as an f3.5-F5.6 aperture lens; its fastest aperture is f3.5, at the wide end, but that drops to f5.6 as I zoom in... but I still have a range of f-no settings, up to f-22 at either end.

A lot of made of faster f-no lenses, and lenses that do go faster than about f4, are useful.... if for no other reason they let more light through the lens when you aren't taking a photo. so view finders tend to be brighter and easier to see stuff in! An f2.8 lens is still regarded as pretty 'fast', f1.8 as 'very' fast; but these apertures are only one or two stops 'faster' than an f4 or f3.5 lens; they only let as much more light as you'd get by upping the ISO one or two stops, or holding the camera a bit steadier to use a lower shutter. Effect on depth of focus is a lot more noticeable... BUT it's an area well in the margins that for where you are at, probably isn't worth being too concerned about.

Though see comments on compact & bridge cameras.... they often have quite flattering f-numbers if they are quoted; mostly due to them having those very short lenses and getting the 'zoom' from the high crop factor. With a shorter lens, the hole diamter doesn't have to be very big to get a low f-no ratio.... but.... those short focal lengths tend to stretch the depth of focus, so you wont get the shallow focus effects you should from them, AND, with those monster zoom ranges, they often DONT have such a flattering f-no at the telephoto end...

This tends also to afflict larger range telephoto's for DSLR's; and whilst 'maga-zooms' have been fashionable for a while; especially as general purpose 'walk about' lenses; they are still very compromised, and the optics not as great as they could be, to keep costs even notionally reasonable, to give you the same 'problems' as you would have with a mega zoom bridge... but in a less compact package!

In days gone by before electric picture makers, and before zoom lenses became common; we used to make do with a single 'fixed' lens, somewhere around the 'normal' angle of view; often a 35mm or 50mm lens. If we had interchangeable lens cameras, we were doing pretty well to have three prime lenses, maybe a 28mm 'wide angle' beneath the 50mm standard, and perhaps a 135mm short telephoto. These simpler 'prime' lenses tended to offer much better quality optics for the money, and not having every length beween primes was no 'real' handicap. When zoom lenses started to come down in price for an 'acceptable' quality, the zoom ranges were often still pretty limited, maybe 2x or 3x; so we still needed at least two lenses to cover that sort of range; usually a 28-70 and then maybe a 70-21.. so we got a little extra at the long end, but, practically it was still as 'heavy' as a four 'prime' lens system, often more compromised for cost quality, and didn't save 'that' many lens swaps!

Same still sort of holds, and you will likely get a better cost/quality compromise from having more, shorter range zoom lenses than one maga range one; and you wouldn't be too handicapped with just one lens; that 18-55 range of the entry level 'kit' DSLR is pretty darn useful, but most folk could probably do pretty well, and quite a few do, with nothing but a fixed 35mm 'prime' on one!

So DO NOT be over sold on ZOOM......Its a bain of the bridge; oft sold on the idea they have 'all the lenses you'll ever need' in one camera.... they DON'T. If you ever find you are regularly in the situations you need and can exploit that much zoom... then a Bridge or a DSLR's 'kit' long-zoom, are almost certainly NOT the one you would need!

It's easy to get, and simplifying the scene by chopping large amounts of it out of the frame, they can deliver pictures with a lot of apparent 'impact' for very little effort; BUT hand holding long lenses does take a steady hand and practice; scanning and tracking likewise; and IF you have a real use for a longer tele, say birding or motorsport, you probably don't need anywhere NEAR as much as you think, and starting out with that much is likely to steer you into standing back and trying to get close with 'zoom' and mors often using too much, rather than getting close by getting close, and acquiring 'stalking skills'.. whilst shortcomings of cheaper, longer lenses, mostly the more restrictive apertures and lesser optics, are likely to make the job harder rather than easier. BETTER to hang onto your cash and at least get a picture, of something a bit small in the frame, than get something big and fuzzy in the frame, if at all. when you are regularly frustrated by small and sharp... then you will be better placed to know how much 'more' zoom would be useful.

Other numbers? Mentioned shutter speeds.... I think my EPM is quoted as having shutter's from 30s to 1/4000th of a second. Most cameras will have a shutter speed these days in that sort of order; bridge and compacts might not offer quite sich high shutter speeds, but likely still 1/1000th and down probably to something like 1/15th which you will unlikely be getting anything but blurr at hand holding, so unless they have a self timer and you can rest them on a tripod or table or something, and some then might 'time' down to perhaps a few seconds, the range will almost certainly be more than enough. Some Bridge cameras may have a 'Bulb' setting to hold the shutter open for very long exposures, you time yourself, some, like most DSLR's may even have a socket to plug in an 'intervalometer' that will time super long exposures for you, and some will even shoot time lapse on a programmed 'delay'.... but well into areas of specialisation there.

ISO's, again mentioned; how much light the camera needs to make a picture. Higher ISO's mean more sensitivity, need less light to make a picture but usually with more distortion and less contrast; they may not be any 'nicer' than peering into the dark. Again, having more or higher ISO settings doesn't necessarily mean 'better', at higher ISO's the colour and contrast they render may be apauling, and a camera with a lower 'highest' ISO may make better pictures at its lower setting, and even 'pushed' pictures under exposed and then brightened up in post process, might look 'better' than ones taken with a 'bad' higher sensitivity sensor.

So that's:-
Sensor Resolution - Mega Pixels.. more isn't always better, anything around 10Mp is almost certainly good enough for most purposes.
Sensor Sensitivity - ISO how dark it can be before you need flash. Higher ISO's can be useful, but generally don;t make for 'best' photo', where we tend to try for the lowest ISO setting we can get away with.
Shutter Speeds - 1/xxx.. range on most cameras now probably wide enough its an irrelevence, unless you really want to do long exposure photos.
Lens Apertures -nu f-numbers - complex...... usually the fastest aperture setting, and often quoted for both ends of a zoom lens range. Faster is presumed 'better' but not always much more 'useful'
Lens Length - mm for proper lenses, X-times for compacts and bridges. More zoom not always better or more useful, and maga zoom on bridges often more hassle than its worth. normal 'range' is around 28-70mm for 35mm film camera, or 18-55 for a crop sensor DSLR... its a very useful general purpose range, and what most photographers most often use. And 'enough' to be getting on with if you are starting out DSLR... if not, then much more than 28-280 or 10x zoom on a compact or bridge, you are starting in the wrong place and should be starting with a DSLR where you stand a better chance of being able to exploit that added zoom!
And i cant think of any others.... apart from the Number 1, top of the list important one..... PRICE!

Bottom line, that's what counts; the price ticket. Off the shelf today, there's probably very very few cameras that are particularly 'bad' for taking pictures. Some are more useful than others in some situations, but the numbers probably don't give you MUCH clue where and when one would be much more useful over another.... and we are back to the beginning.... an entry level DSLR.. almost ANY entry level DSLR and a kit 18-55 is bang on the mark as good a place to start as anywhere; DONT be over sold on the body, or the features they suggest a 'better' body might have, here and now, starting out its very dubiouse whether they are any use at all. ANY entry level DSLR will undoubtedly have far more than you need to get to grips with the business, and more than enough scope to grow into one, and they DO tend to make that entry reasonably less daunting. Even an older 2nd hand one is likely more than good enough, and 'the numbers' then matter little.... once you have one.... then the numbers will likely start making sense, and you MAY want different numbers... whether you need them is another matter.... but, once you have got to grips with it all a bit, you should have learned enough to make better sense of them, and know better which numbers are more or less important to you and what you are doing with them..... but here and now? DON'T get bogged down in the detail, and certainly don't let the salesman convince you to part with BIG numbers on that all important PRICE.... making the little numbers 'seem' more significant than they actually are!

DSLR start point then begs suggestion of bridge as a stepping stone, and sticking so much in the bag in one go; but it's a jack of all trades and master of none, on a lot of cases, and something of a dead end if you do move on. Compacts? Choice now seems pretty limited. There are some great ones out there; and with a bit of know how you can do a lot with them; but they wont encourage you to learn that know how very much, and they are squashed into a gap in the market where they are as expensive as a lot of far more sales featured bridge cameras and not a lot cheaper than an entry level DSLR. CPS cameras, are not a good start. They are supercompacts with added versatility and SLR 'features', you really need to know what's what to exploit; and they are far from cheap.

Which is Why I have kept saying 'cheap' entry level DSLR and kit 18-55 lens. It's that bit bulkier than a compact; BUT on bag, for where you are at, the start point you suggested, wanting to learn a bit and progress, they are the tool for the job. When you have learned what you can and cant do with one; what lenses you would really want or need, and have that know how about the numbers, THEN you would be best placed to upgrade the kit with specilised lenses, or wot-not, or to side step to CSC or a high end compact, depending on what suits... but for the 'learning' the entry Level DSLR, warts and all, is best bang for your buck, the most capability, the most scope to advance, the most opportunity to learn, to experiment and find out what's what. and zoning in on that region... they are all SO close together in spec and capability... just a case of facing teh sales man down and saying "No, I JUST want an entry level DSLR" and picking the one that you are comfiest with or has best price or 'deal' on it this month....

DON'T sweat the small stuff! Only number that matters is the one with a '£' sign infront of it!
 
Slightly OT.. if you're completely new to photography and keen to get going quickly then you might want to budget for the following too:

Bag
Memory card
Spare batteries
Training
(maybe) upgraded PC for processing
USB hard disks for backups
Software for image management and processing
(maybe) tripod
(maybe) rain cover

Personally I'm happiest with smaller gear and I've therefore sold off all my DSLR stuff and now only have mirrorless cameras. Maybe you could read up on DSLR's and mirrorless cameras and see if either or neither float your boat.

:agree:

This is worth repeating very loudly. Mirrorless cameras are awesome and for most people shouldn't be regarded as second best. They are, however, rather different from DSLRs.
The other major decision is sensor size: m4/3, APS-C or Full frame?

DON'T think you have to expend the whole budget straight away; You can pick up a good 2nd hand entry level DSLR & Kit lens for around £150.

This too.. a modern entry level camera and lens will do you quite well for some time to come for everything except the wildlife bit. Only upgrade the lenses when you understand the limits of what you've bought. Lenses tend to keep their resale value so you can always sell the kit on.
 
Numbers? What numbers?

:D

I'll waffle on about some basic stuff just in case it's all new to you...

The numbers like 28, 35, 50, 85mm and ranges such as 24-70mm and the like are the focal length of the lens and describe the field of view. Single numbers like 35mm describe prime lenses which are fixed length lenses which don't zoom and ranges such as 24-70mm denote zoom lenses. The smaller the number the wider the view and the bigger the number the further off into the distance the reach. For example a 12mm lens will make your front room look massive and a 400mm lens will enable you to almost fill the frame with that little spider on the wall over there. Don't worry, I can't really see into your room :D

Numbers like f1.4, f1.8 and f2.8 are the aperture which is the opening in the lens that lets the light in. The lower the number the bigger the hole which lets the light in, f1.4 being a bigger hole than f4. A big hole is useful for shooting in low light, for achieving a faster shutter speed and for controlling the depth of field. When expressed as something like f3.5-5.6 this states the maximum aperture range of a zoom lens as you go from the widest zoom setting to the longest. You don't have to shoot at these aperture values all the time though, you can "stop" the lens down to a maximum that varies with the lens but could be something like f18, f22 or even f32 or you can stop down to something in-between, like f4 or f8. Note that although you can stop an f2.8 lens down to (for example) f22 you can't open it up to f1.8. If f2.8 is what it says on the lens then that's the maximum.

Other numbers and letters and things such as USM, HSM, ED, Mega OIS and other such mysteries may well be brand specific and best deciphered by visiting the makers web site and hunting around for an explanation or asking someone who knows these things. Some things are however almost standard such as IS which usually means image stabilisation.

Your mileage may vary but my thought processes lead me to look at focal length and aperture first and I'll decipher anything else later if I can be bothered.

If what you want to know isn't explained by the above please ask again and maybe give an example of the numbers you don't quite understand yet.
Thanks that is most helpful. [emoji106]
 
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