Camera clubs and competitions

Blimey John! That's a heck of a way to start. Every man and his dog will have an opinion on that. Welcome, by the way.
 
I'm with you 100%. I've joined many clubs over the years and have left every single one for the same reason - bloody competitions. :headbang:

I think we might be in the minority though - they appear to be popular on here. The difference is they're not shoved down your throat. :cool:

BTW - welcome to the forum John, I see this is your first post. :welcome:
 
I recently joined a club and I have found they have simultaneously given me more faith in my own core image taking in some ways, and are encouraging me to raise the bar in terms of editing. I am also thinking more about some aspects of composition having had critical exposure to a wider variety of images.

What is slightly frustrating is that the club membership has a bias to a certain couple of genre’s, and anything outside of them is unlikely to score well as members score each others images and the external “judge” just comments critically on them after**.


**probably for the best as you do sometimes wonder which planet one of the judges they use is on….
 
I think many activities done for pleasure seem to involve competition these days - any sports for example, but also I think people seem to have a competitive nature that is often exploited or just taken to extremes. I'm not a camera club member nor have I been, but I do feel that a healthy degree of competition can make people rise to a challenge. So I have mixed views on it.
On this fiorum we have a number of people who enjoy their camera clubs and participate actively, and sometimes very successfully in their competitions.

Also on this forum, whilst we occasionally run a competition for some kind of prize that has been donated by a company in place of actual; advertising, we also run a number of challenges - not the careful choice of term used - to encourage people to have a go at a genre or theme, but there is no real competition involved. We do hold votes among the membership on people's 3 favourite entries, but there are no prizes involved, the idea being for people to draw their own conclusions as to why certain images garner more votes than others - this is a learning point.

Anyway, welcome @John V and well done for stirring the pot!
 
Plenty of running groups take part in competitive running and will also I’m sure offer support to those who wish to just get fit.

I’ve never been a camera club member the very thought is cringeworthy for me, even a name change to a photographic society would do them some credit.

I’m not adverse to competitions and have entered plenty online but I do it as and when I choose and the majority of my photography is for pleasure, I suppose what I’m saying is there is room for both competitive and non competitive enjoyment from all hobbies!
 
I never used to enter competitions but did so recently to allow me to get some critique thus giving me some degree of perception of whether I am ready to go for some sort of distinction and how I compare with other club members... I take encouragement from those that do well and take note when images I consider great get torn apart, bit of a reality check - then I move on...

Just hope this is not yet another new user single post grenade to inflame the natives...
 
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It varies from club to club. Some are ultra competitive, others much less so.

It depends what you want to get out of camera club competitions really.

Personally I use them for constructive critique on my images. I've found that since getting an impartial view on my work that they've picked up on things I've missed (and sometimes not even thought about) and helped me to improve as a photographer.

It's nigh on impossible to get decent feedback just by posting your images on the internet, most people will either say they love it or just say nothing. Even on here the feedback is sporadic.

The other thing is that I have a self imposed rule, that anything I enter has to be taken within 6 months, so it kind of forces me to be a bit more active.
 
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Mozthecat said:
What is slightly frustrating is that the club membership has a bias to a certain couple of genre’s, and anything outside of them is unlikely to score well as members score each others images and the external “judge” just comments critically on them after**.
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Birds on a stick, Dragonfly's, street portraits Old Indian Gentlemen looking sad... that sort of thing yeah?
 
Purchased an SLR a three years ago after 15 years with an excellent bridge camera and a few variants before that.
Joined a local camera club a couple of years ago to see what it was all about.
My images have done reasonably well in the competitions and I have learned a few things...particularly composition and editing...I use Capture One.
I remain a member as I don't take things too seriously and some things have to be done before it's too late
Generally my images are just as good as those I took well over 65 years ago but just a few are actually better !?:cool:
I have realised though that if you want lots of letters after your name the easiest and most prolific way is the Camera Club way.
You have to smile at them....Don't you??;)
 
A good camera club will/should be about more than competitions and also, you don't have to compete if you don't want to.
 
I've been a member of a few clubs over the years. Some are good, most are not. While I dont mind the competition side, what I disliked was the tacitical voting, and in one case downright fiddiling the vote (money was invilved :() Generally you dont have to take part.
While they can be fun and have good "expert visitors" and you can make good mates, there often seems to be a degree of camera snobbery in most. If you havent got the latest Canonik 20R your the lowest form of life.
I'm afraid I'm at the point now of "borrowing" the late great Groucho Marxs comment "I refuse to join any club that would have ME as a member".
 
I've never been a club member. All I know about the topic is from having briefly examined a few club websites over the years. My uniform perception was that clubs tend to be limited and prescriptive in-crowds. At the apex, possibly, of all this is the RPS. Not that there's nothing positive in it, but it's not for me. Neither do I need to sign off from the discussion "yours disgruntledly" - I'm content enough ploughing my single furrow & remaining true to myself.

There are many paths.
 
I kept nodding off.... dont go anymore :)
 
Weird, second post like this I've seen in a couple of weeks; it's like a Blitzkrieg: dive in, post and bugger off, never to be seen again. Guy posted on Wednesday, visited twice in an hour and a half and that was all she wrote. Again, weird; I wonder why people do that?
 
I was in a camera club in the Air Force many years ago but it was only to use their extensive darkroom facilities, I don't think there were ever any meetings.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
What a strange first post.

No surprise he's not been back.
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Not strange at all, seemed quite lucid to me.

As for whether John has 'disappeared', it's early days yet. But if he has, that's part of the nature of the internet. Don't you ever start a quest, then drift away ..?
 
I've never been a member of a camera club although I have been asked to join our local one a few times. From what I can gather competitions are optional, as is joining a camera club.
 
I have been a member of a camera club for around 15 years. Sadly this could be our final year as we cannot attract new members. What I will miss will be the themed competitions. At the AGM we would pick various subjects to photograph. Some were easy some hard. We would then hold a competition to see who could best interpret the subject. The last one was Glass !
 
the only problems i see with competitions in photography is that it is subjective to the judges opinion, granted there are "rules" that you "must" follow, but it is still just their opinion and like arseholes everyone has one and sometimes they stink...what you may like may not be what i like etc etc( i love a dutch angle portrait for example), so who is to say who is right surely the photographer who entered the picture into the competition thought it was a great picture or he wouldn't of entered it. when i started out taking pictures a bit more seriously i thought about joining a club, but more to learn about it granted you do learn from competition in the end i decided it wasnt for me
 
I joined my club over covid for a bit of social interaction.. they were doing zoom meets and I wanted to fill my diary during lockdown while living on my own. I'm still going, the people are lovely.

In general, I'd say the scene is very 'white old man', There's a real lack of diversity in camera clubs - in terms of age, colour, class, ideas, gender. I'm not going all 'DE&I' on you, but it's clear to me the scene is so narrow and it suffers because of it.

Photography is full of gatekeepers, and no more so than camera clubs. Judges, competitions, judges who judge/train judges, federations, associations, salons, etc.. these all lead to the hemogenisation of camera club photography. At our club every so often we watch a slideshow from one of the international salons, the photos all look so similar!

Basically, the scene is a cult. If you join the cult, then you believe club photography is all photography :D

I'm sure not all clubs are like it

disclaimer, I take part in my clubs competitions and enjoy it. it's entertainment and I take pleasure in watching the judge struggle to talk about my photos. I'm confident enough to do my own thing, it's the people who are learning and experimenting I feel sorry for.
 
What an interesting post by benc98

As a member of a club (full of nice people) I’m inclined to agree with most of the points raised

we do, however, have a significant proportion of female members
 
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benc98 said:
I joined my club over covid for a bit of social interaction.. they were doing zoom meets and I wanted to fill my diary during lockdown while living on my own. I'm still going, the people are lovely.

In general, I'd say the scene is very 'white old man', There's a real lack of diversity in camera clubs - in terms of age, colour, class, ideas, gender. I'm not going all 'DE&I' on you, but it's clear to me the scene is so narrow and it suffers because of it.

Photography is full of gatekeepers, and no more so than camera clubs. Judges, competitions, judges who judge/train judges, federations, associations, salons, etc.. these all lead to the hemogenisation of camera club photography. At our club every so often we watch a slideshow from one of the international salons, the photos all look so similar!

Basically, the scene is a cult. If you join the cult, then you believe club photography is all photography :D

I'm sure not all clubs are like it

disclaimer, I take part in my clubs competitions and enjoy it. it's entertainment and I take pleasure in watching the judge struggle to talk about my photos. I'm confident enough to do my own thing, it's the people who are learning and experimenting I feel sorry for.
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I’d be inclined to agree with this.

I was in a club for 5 or 6 years about 10-15 years ago and my photography hugely improved during that time. Demographically, I was in my late 30’s so I was probably the youngest by a good 15-20 years, there were a good few women members though. But as I wasn’t interested in the competitive element or salons or PAGB distinctions (plus the program was increasingly lecture heavy, and not very good ones at that) I felt I’d got as far as I could and joined a monochrome group who meet monthly and don’t have competitions. This suits me better and I’m still a member.

However I do still lecture to camera clubs and I’d say that the demographic is still the same with membership generally (but not exclusively) 55+. The majority of clubs I’ve spoken to in the past few years have shrunk since covid and I’m aware of a few that have folded.

Can this trend be reversed? I don’t know - younger generations have grown up with smart phones, Instagram and the digital image rather than the printed one. Feedback is instant rather than every few weeks although as to how qualified that feedback is, is maybe a moot point. And YouTube has a near infinite number of technique and lectures videos.

But online does lack the face to face community aspect, and although that might be a massive plus point for some, being in the company of like minded people for a few hours is a good thing.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
Can this trend be reversed?
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I think yes - and despite my criticism, I'm not sure how.

I've read a lot over the last few years about mental health and especially loneliness, this impacts the young as much, if not more than the older folk. I feel this can be tapped into somehow - a camera club could really bring people together
 
Some interesting posts lately on this. I was contemplating joining my local club recently (although an impending house move makes that pointless now), and I noticed that it's a small group of people - circa 12 - of whom, the majority are "senior", although there are several women members, and a few members are (by the look of them in photos on FB) in their 30's, so it looks a fairly good mix. I do get the impression though that when a certain two or three can't get along any more, it might fizzle out. Which would be sad and a significant loss for the reason just pointed out by Ben.
 
yzfmike said:
What an interesting post by benc98

As a member of a club (full of nice people) I’m inclined to agree with most of the points raised

we do, however, have a significant proportion of female members
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Most of the clubs I've been a member of or visited had a decent number of female members too. Our training courses run something close to 50/50 at a guess, and the photowalks had a lot too.
I suspect some small clubs may be different. That said it's a long time since I've been to a camera club.....
 
benc98 said:
I think yes - and despite my criticism, I'm not sure how.

I've read a lot over the last few years about mental health and especially loneliness, this impacts the young as much, if not more than the older folk. I feel this can be tapped into somehow - a camera club could really bring people together
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That’s an excellent point and one I’d forgotten about. I once observed to the chairman of the club I was in that some members didn’t participate in anything and had no real discernible interest in photography. He said that’s right but for older people who are on their own, it’s something to do in the evening. It’ll be bridge club on Monday, local history group on Tuesday, camera club on Wednesday etc. A warm room with people to talk to is an attractive proposition if you’re lonely and don’t have much money.
 
I never joined a club and I don't think there is one near me. I always maintain that if the photo you took your happy with then it is good enough. If others like it as well then consider it a bonus. Remember everyone will have their own opinion, some may like it other may not
 
realspeed said:
I never joined a club and I don't think there is one near me. I always maintain that if the photo you took your happy with then it is good enough. If others like it as well then consider it a bonus. Remember everyone will have their own opinion, some may like it other may not
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You might be supprised, theres lot of little ones about, in local community centres, sports clubs and pubs. I live in a fairly sleepy place and theres 4 within about 3 miles.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
Can this trend be reversed?
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My local club was all about competitions but a year or two before covid new "management" took over and moved it more towards talks, meet-ups to go shooting and just sharing work for critique. That being more my thing I joined and they kept it going through Covid on zoom and they could get good speakers on zoom because no one had to travel. Then as things got back to normal they really started to struggle for ideas and speakers, the 3 guys who had kept it going were getting a bit fed up that no one else would organise anything so not it has gone back to competitions. We tried setting up a separate group to meet once-a-month or so to share work and just have a chat but again someone had to arrange a venue, etc. and that petered out.

My take-away from that experience is that things like competitions give people a focus and something to aim for, it is hard to find something to replace that which keeps people engaged. Back in the day another reason for joining a camera club was access to developing a printing facilities but of course we don't need that now.

viewfromthenorth said:
Feedback is instant rather than every few weeks although as to how qualified that feedback is, is maybe a moot point.
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Like it or not a lot of photography is now about getting likes on Instagram, a high engagement IG photo might not fair well at a camera club but does with creator want that kind of feedback? Probably not. It's like trying to convince someone who likes EDM that they really ought to like Chopin.
 
Having to stick to the "rules"which every comp insists on simply sucks the creativity out of some people ." Ohh you can't enter that , the highlights are blown " or "that's just slightly off the rule of thirds it won't score well" or "hey the leading lines don't lead well" YAWN !!!! ....I've saw some amazingly creative photographers get destroyed by camera clubs and comps as they are told they can't shoot a certain way because it doesn't follow the rules etc
I've only went to 2 camera clubs and on both occasions before I got asked what my name was I got asked what camera brand I use which then lead to a debate on why the other brand is better ... absolutely soul destroying...I'll never step foot in one again.
 
sirch said:
My local club was all about competitions but a year or two before covid new "management" took over and moved it more towards talks, meet-ups to go shooting and just sharing work for critique. That being more my thing I joined and they kept it going through Covid on zoom and they could get good speakers on zoom because no one had to travel. Then as things got back to normal they really started to struggle for ideas and speakers, the 3 guys who had kept it going were getting a bit fed up that no one else would organise anything so not it has gone back to competitions. We tried setting up a separate group to meet once-a-month or so to share work and just have a chat but again someone had to arrange a venue, etc. and that petered out.

My take-away from that experience is that things like competitions give people a focus and something to aim for, it is hard to find something to replace that which keeps people engaged. Back in the day another reason for joining a camera club was access to developing a printing facilities but of course we don't need that now.


Like it or not a lot of photography is now about getting likes on Instagram, a high engagement IG photo might not fair well at a camera club but does with creator want that kind of feedback? Probably not. It's like trying to convince someone who likes EDM that they really ought to like Chopin.
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The organisational element is always difficult, and I guess is where the retired generation have more time (and often managerial experience) that comes in handy. I’ve ended up being secretary of our group but that’s not administratively arduous as we meet monthly, don’t have committee meetings and only have one or two speakers a year. But it still does require time and as I have a family, a demanding full time job and generally have a very busy life, it’s not always easy to fit in.

Online photographic communities and Instagram have less of an established aesthetic than camera clubs. Yes, many people just shoot their own thing and the standard of work is often very high, but if you want to do well in competitions, especially external then I found it got somewhat homogeneous - not sure if that is still the case.

I personally prefer the way our monochrome group works which is more critique and project based, but I’d not rule out joining a club in the future for the social engagement. My photography doesn’t really lend itself to the competitive element, not that I’ve any interest in that anymore - I’ve had enough work published, exhibited and sold to know that it’s pretty good and don’t need the validation.
 
sirch said:
My local club was all about competitions but a year or two before covid new "management" took over and moved it more towards talks, meet-ups to go shooting and just sharing work for critique. That being more my thing I joined and they kept it going through Covid on zoom and they could get good speakers on zoom because no one had to travel. Then as things got back to normal they really started to struggle for ideas and speakers, the 3 guys who had kept it going were getting a bit fed up that no one else would organise anything so not it has gone back to competitions. We tried setting up a separate group to meet once-a-month or so to share work and just have a chat but again someone had to arrange a venue, etc. and that petered out.

My take-away from that experience is that things like competitions give people a focus and something to aim for, it is hard to find something to replace that which keeps people engaged. Back in the day another reason for joining a camera club was access to developing a printing facilities but of course we don't need that now.


Like it or not a lot of photography is now about getting likes on Instagram, a high engagement IG photo might not fair well at a camera club but does with creator want that kind of feedback? Probably not. It's like trying to convince someone who likes EDM that they really ought to like Chopin.
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Having been syllabus secretary for a pretty big big club back in the day, I have to say it takes a lot of time and effort to plan a years events and comps and guest speakers etc.
First your working a year in advance, you have to find and contact the guest speakers and offer them at least 2 dates (these have to fit in around the "fixed" things like monthly comps and external battles, bank holidays etc) then theres booking hotels for them if needed,
Contacting other clubs to sort details and venues for battles, sorting out workshop days, or a studio/model day, there really is a ton of work, if you have a proper job as well it's a lot to take on.
 
Our club very rarely has competitions at all, the last one would have been several years before covid, and certainly wasn't taken seriously by any of us.
Exploring techniques & unusual subjects seems a much better use of our meetings....
 
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benc98 said:
I'm not sure how.
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I've visited all the local clubs in my locale and they all suffer from many of the negative points raised here and weren't for me.

However, one group stood right out for me. I used to run night school classes on photography - from beginner to experienced beginner. Once the three courses were up, my final lesson had a "what next" component to it. What can you do if you enjoy photography and want to get better in a social, group environment. The obvious answer to that is "join a camera club". However another option I gave was to "start your own". Three groups tried this, and one has been going for 5 years now (the other two died with COVID). It's not geographically tied (but they are all relatively local), is very loosely organised, but importantly, is filled with like-minded people who all enjoy photography.

They decide on a theme every month. Come the end of the month, images are submitted, pasted into a powerpoint, and when they meet at the pub, the images are displayed. Feedback from everyone on each (anonymous) image is encouraged and everyone gets one vote. Winner is the person with the most votes and their prize is deciding next month's theme. Then they go round the group with the photographer owning up to their photo, talking about it briefly, and responding to the feedback. The rest of the time is spent chatting/socialising. It's very laid back, and those that don't want their photos critiquing, don't enter. They've had a couple of speakers as well as days/nights out taking photographs. The important thing, is that it works for them. What I noticed was that whilst people like to "win", no-one seems to care whether they do or not. For them, it's about improving their photography and getting/giving feedback in order to improve.

First, they have all quickly learned to develop a thick skin and respond to critical feedback without losing their s**t. A skill many people today would benefit from!
Second - in my opinion, they have all significantly improved as photographers. Some aren't interested in improving. They just enjoy it for the simple sake of what photography is. But it hasn't changed the fact that they have improved. About half of them are still on auto (and they don't care). There is a definite "split" between technical and creative skills and it's really good to see these skills rub off on others.
Third - it's fun, lively, entertaining and gets me (and them) out of the house.

I guess what I'm saying isn't that "clubs need to be like this", but if your local club is rubbish because of reasons, consider starting something that you think is worthwhile. All you need is half a dozen like minded folks and you're on your way. In today's social media climate, it shouldn't be that hard. These guys did it with no experience, and just "love" for the art. Which is, as I understand it, the literal translation of [French] amateur. Online groups are certainly helpful, but there's nothing quite like meeting in-person and having a pint with someone who has the same hobby as you.

Challenges on TP such as the 365s, 52s, & 12s, the zine exchange, the various POTYs, the nifty 50 etc are all versions of what you could do with a group if you so desired. Don't wait for the right thing to fall in your lap - make it happen.

[/tuppence]

Edit - Ben - I wasn't meaning "you" personally when I said "you". It was a general "you" as in "the dissatisfied with camera clubs reader" :facepalm:
 
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Harlequin565 said:
I've visited all the local clubs in my locale and they all suffer from many of the negative points raised here and weren't for me.

However, one group stood right out for me. I used to run night school classes on photography - from beginner to experienced beginner. Once the three courses were up, my final lesson had a "what next" component to it. What can you do if you enjoy photography and want to get better in a social, group environment. The obvious answer to that is "join a camera club". However another option I gave was to "start your own". Three groups tried this, and one has been going for 5 years now (the other two died with COVID). It's not geographically tied (but they are all relatively local), is very loosely organised, but importantly, is filled with like-minded people who all enjoy photography.

They decide on a theme every month. Come the end of the month, images are submitted, pasted into a powerpoint, and when they meet at the pub, the images are displayed. Feedback from everyone on each (anonymous) image is encouraged and everyone gets one vote. Winner is the person with the most votes and their prize is deciding next month's theme. Then they go round the group with the photographer owning up to their photo, talking about it briefly, and responding to the feedback. The rest of the time is spent chatting/socialising. It's very laid back, and those that don't want their photos critiquing, don't enter. They've had a couple of speakers as well as days/nights out taking photographs. The important thing, is that it works for them. What I noticed was that whilst people like to "win", no-one seems to care whether they do or not. For them, it's about improving their photography and getting/giving feedback in order to improve.

First, they have all quickly learned to develop a thick skin and respond to critical feedback without losing their s**t. A skill many people today would benefit from!
Second - in my opinion, they have all significantly improved as photographers. Some aren't interested in improving. They just enjoy it for the simple sake of what photography is. But it hasn't changed the fact that they have improved. About half of them are still on auto (and they don't care). There is a definite "split" between technical and creative skills and it's really good to see these skills rub off on others.
Third - it's fun, lively, entertaining and gets me (and them) out of the house.

I guess what I'm saying isn't that "clubs need to be like this", but if your local club is rubbish because of reasons, consider starting something that you think is worthwhile. All you need is half a dozen like minded folks and you're on your way. In today's social media climate, it shouldn't be that hard. These guys did it with no experience, and just "love" for the art. Which is, as I understand it, the literal translation of [French] amateur. Online groups are certainly helpful, but there's nothing quite like meeting in-person and having a pint with someone who has the same hobby as you.

Challenges on TP such as the 365s, 52s, & 12s, the zine exchange, the various POTYs, the nifty 50 etc are all versions of what you could do with a group if you so desired. Don't wait for the right thing to fall in your lap - make it happen.

[/tuppence]

Edit - Ben - I wasn't meaning "you" personally when I said "you". It was a general "you" as in "the dissatisfied with camera clubs reader" :facepalm:
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Finding like-minded folk has always been my problem. Not just when it comes to photography! :D
 
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