Canon 5D3 To Fuji XT-2 Views Please

Bikes coming at me at over 140mph,pans with a 500mm F4 at 1/160th of something of a bike going one way and a rider going another as he wrestles it around a corner as its trynig to throw him off!

Anyone can shoot motorsport even with a 20D and make a bike look like its on a sidestand.
That's fair enough and now I understand the keeper rate. But a lot of that's limits of technique rather than limits of the camera's AF system and so not a fair reflection of a particular camera's keeper rate imo.
 
I used to pre focus on the area of the track I knew the bike would be.

1shot but usually nailed it.

I still don't like relying on AFC for that reason.

But I'm an old git.
 
I think I'm guilty of zooming in 100% and pixel peeping to be honest.

And I don't care what anyone says, the XT2 can't hold a candle to the Nikon D750's images at 100%.

Intriguing...

The first paragraph tells us that we shouldn't pixel peep and the second tells us that if we do, we'll see faults in images that only bug us because we've pixel peeped (and that 99% of people will never notice even when the apparent faults are pointed out to them and even then, a good few won't see the faults and only say they do to get back to looking at a great photo!!!)

FWIW, I still have and use my D700/750 kit as well as the Fujis because, as Hoppy points out, there are still a few things that an SLR does better than the current crop of CSCs. Generally prefer the look and colours that the Fujis give me.
 
I used to pre focus on the area of the track I knew the bike would be.

1shot but usually nailed it.

I still don't like relying on AFC for that reason.

But I'm an old git.
TBH with a fast enough shutter I'll get 90% plus keeper rate of things coming towards me with modern day AF systems, maybe slightly less with dogs doing flyball. When I'm panning at 1/50 and below in the other hand......... :LOL:
 
Intriguing...

The first paragraph tells us that we shouldn't pixel peep and the second tells us that if we do, we'll see faults in images that only bug us because we've pixel peeped (and that 99% of people will never notice even when the apparent faults are pointed out to them and even then, a good few won't see the faults and only say they do to get back to looking at a great photo!!!)

FWIW, I still have and use my D700/750 kit as well as the Fujis because, as Hoppy points out, there are still a few things that an SLR does better than the current crop of CSCs. Generally prefer the look and colours that the Fujis give me.
You don't always have to pixel peep to see 'issues', but agree that pixel peeping can be a bad thing and make you start seeing flaws in everything.
 
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I agree Nod and I accept what you're saying.

I can't seem to stop pixel peeping and mentally comparing the 2 sets of results.

I wish I could, I'd probably be very happy with the Fuji's output.


Of course you're in the enviable position of having the 2 systems.

I'm trying to talk myself out of getting an XE2 and keeping the Samyang 12 & 8mm lenses for my Fuji Fix and trying the Canon 5D of some ilk.


It may just be an itch I need to scratch, I don't know.

One thing's for sure I won't lose money as I got the new D750 and 24-120 lens for £801.97 in Curry's clearance and traded it in for the XT2 at Jessops for £1482.


Best bit of luck I've ever had.
 
TBH with a fast enough shutter I'll get 90% plus keeper rate of things coming towards me with modern day AF systems, maybe slightly less with dogs doing flyball. When I'm panning at 1/50 and below in the other hand......... :LOL:


I was never brave enough to do that with HP5 at 400 ASA (in those days)

1/250th minimum (I think)
 
The question really is will the X-T2 do all that the 5D MKIII will do and it wouldnt be fair for me to say yes or no as i have never owned a 5D of any kind.

If you put the X-T2 up against the equivalent from Canon in the form of the 7D MKII i would say the X-T2 is a better all round camera and has the edge in higher ISO but wont render skin tones as nice as any Canon camera but then again i prefer the images straight out of camera from the little Fuji anyway.

If i compare it with my 1DX MKII with a 85 f1.2 against the X-T2 and 56 f1.2 although the 1DX will win the gap isnt massive and i am more than happy with the images from the Fuji straight out of camera and infact sometimes the way it renders colours puts the 1DX to shame.

I think if you like post processing your images you would have more room for manipulation with the files out of the 5D MKIII if its anything like the 1DX but then again i can carry the X-T2 all day long complete with a bag of lenses compared to any of the Canon gear i have.
 
I was never brave enough to do that with HP5 at 400 ASA (in those days)

1/250th minimum (I think)
Lol, wouldn't have dreamt of it with film either. TBH with my 70-200 and 150-600 1/60 is about my limit of getting close to 75% keeper rate. I keep trying to get to minnnt's unbelievable 1/8s but when I get to 1/25 keeper rate's probably less than 10%, at 1/8 is was a total blurred mess :LOL:
 
Of course it maybe that I'm having to process the XT2 raws in Adobe Camera RAW as I've not got a late enough version of Lightroom and I'm not au fait with Camera Raw completely yet.

This could be it.
 
That's what love about the XT2 @Gadget-Guy, that and the colours. Not Velvia, that's so Ken Rockwell it's untrue.

Seeing what you're going to get in the EVF is brilliant.

If Nikon ever made a mirrorless FX camera, and sorted their skin tones out it'd be a world beater.
IMO they sorted skin tones with the D750, with WB set to 'keep warmer tones' they're extremely natural imo, YMMV. Fuji skins can often look a bit 'waxy' to me.

Do you edit Nikon RAWs in camera RAW/Lightroom and if so do you use the camera profiles or just leave it as adobe?
 
Of course it maybe that I'm having to process the XT2 raws in Adobe Camera RAW as I've not got a late enough version of Lightroom and I'm not au fait with Camera Raw completely yet.

This could be it.
Camera RAW is the same as Lightroom, just laid out slightly differently.
 
I edited the D750 files in Lightroom.

"Keep warmer tones"?

Never heard of this setting. Maybe wish I had :-(

Oh, and I used to choose the Standard film simulation, the Adobe one was awful.
 
The first time I get a great image with the XT2 in good light I'll forget all about this fanciful wishing.

I'm sure I'll get some great stuff on holiday.
 
The first time I get a great image with the XT2 in good light I'll forget all about this fanciful wishing.

I'm sure I'll get some great stuff on holiday.
You will get some cracking shots with the XT2. Fuji lenses are really nice.
 
I edited the D750 files in Lightroom.

"Keep warmer tones"?

Never heard of this setting. Maybe wish I had :-(

Oh, and I used to choose the Standard film simulation, the Adobe one was awful.
Yeah, you can really tweak the WB settings with Nikon (probably Canon and others too). You can fine tune temperature and tint for each WB setting. From memory I generally use Auto WB keep warmer colours and have tint shifted one square towards magenta and for me colours are very natural. You can also change temp and tint of the LCD so you can try and match the LCD colour to calibrated screen as much as possible therefore you know that what you're seeing is pretty accurate. Of course, on the LCD screen you're only viewing the jpeg so it's never going to be 100% exact to the final RAW, even when using the Nikon camera profiles. In this regards Nikon Capture NX is better, but overall the software is pants.
 
Thanks for the info mate,

(Now I've not got the camera). :p
Someone else may find it useful, or when you decide the grass in greener and move back to Nikon ;) :p
 
TBH you can read so many reviews and get so many opinions but the only one that matters is yours. I have the D750 and last year bought the XT1 as a second lightweight setup based on how wonderful people say Fuji is and how nice their images are. I no longer have the Fuji. I had too many shots with that I now call 'Fuji artefacts' and I tried just about every piece of software going to try and fix this. When I was trying to get to the bottom of it some folk told me how they'd never seen them and even posted example pics, and guess what? The 'artefacts were present on these too. I wasn't going to point them out to the poster as once you've seen them you can't then not see them so you're better off not spotting them. Obviously YMMV and for the most part the Fuji images were very very nice indeed.

I've now gone back to Olympus as my lightweight setup and whilst the top images aren't quite as nice as Fujis (albiet very very little in it) I don't have to worry about having shots ruined.

When parting with the kind of money you're talking about it's an absolute must that you try before you buy, and not just having a play in store. Hire/borrow one for a few days to get a proper feel for it. As mentioned earlier, GKjnr's company has ditched all of their Nikon gear in favour of Fuji XT2's for shooting F1, so it's more than capable. However, from my experience with it (which to be fair is fairly limited) it's still not quite as good as a top end DSLR overall in terms of AF, but it's more than good enough for most applications. Generally speaking motorsport isn't the most demanding on AF systems though.
Perhaps next time you might enlighten a artefact blind fuji shooter on just exactly were these artefacts are in their shots.
 
Perhaps next time you might enlighten a artefact blind fuji shooter on just exactly were these artefacts are in their shots.
I don't think I would tbh. If you don't notice them then you don't need to know as if you did you might struggle to see past them. If you're happy with your gear why try and find a flaw in it (y)
 
I don't think I would tbh. If you don't notice them then you don't need to know as if you did you might struggle to see past them. If you're happy with your gear why try and find a flaw in it (y)
Its a fair point. I personally don't see artefacts and maybe thats because I don't peek the pixels, but then again I'm not a professional photographer either. But if they do exist then maybe the more people understand and can identify them, maybe they can rectify the problem.
 
My biggest problem is i have used nothing but 1 series cameras for the last 8 years so there are not many that come close to the 1DX or 1DX MKII in all honesty but again as much as Canon and many one series owners would like you to believe they still dont nail every shot in a sequence and a lot of us dont rattle off any more than say five or six shots in a row.I would say that i get a 50% return rate at sensible speeds on the 1DX MKII compared to a 25% return from the X-T2 but if you compare this against say the 7D MKII so we are in the same area i think the X-T2 has an advantage on keeper rate at speeds of 1/320th at similar shutter speeds and focal lengths but wipes the floor on higher ISO shots in the noise department.

My biggest gripe is the fact of the flip book effect you get in the EVF when you shoot in burst mode where as i would prefer if it was just more like having a viewfinder that was constantly on for a permanent stream as it takes a while to adapt over to the way it works.

Depending on weather this weekend i will try and grab a sequence of shots at Brands on Sunday and Monday while i am there working as i have archived most the images from last season now but i think the X-T2 does a very good job although it will never be a 1DX MKII but then again it doesnt cost 5 grand,is a lot easier to carry and has some of the best colur and jpeg outputs i have seen.

White balance i would say isnt as accurate as Canon cameras but many other things are very good indeed along with the fact of having a compressed RAW format and its very good actually being able to see the effect of either exposure settings or film effects through the EVF and on the rear screen.

Thanks for this, and your other posts. It's refreshing to read some balanced comments - most are biased one way or the other as people seek to justify their own purchasing decisions. And XT-2 vs 7D2 is a good comparison I think (y)

Your comment about the 'flip-book' is also very relevant to sports shooting. It used to be a show-stopper with mirrorless and sports, but now it seems to be more of an irritation that can be worked around. Would that be a fair way of describing it? Room for improvement, but doable?

That's fair enough and now I understand the keeper rate. But a lot of that's limits of technique rather than limits of the camera's AF system and so not a fair reflection of a particular camera's keeper rate imo.

Yes, there's so much more to it than just the camera's ability. The lens, the AF tracking parameters set, and the sheer skill of the photographer in keeping the AF point/s accurately nailed. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
 
Its a fair point. I personally don't see artefacts and maybe thats because I don't peek the pixels, but then again I'm not a professional photographer either. But if they do exist then maybe the more people understand and can identify them, maybe they can rectify the problem.
It's a well documented 'issue'. Some are in denial, some just don't see it, and some don't care ;) Some people say that it's nothing to do with Fuji files per se but a limit of software not being able to interpret the X-Trans properly. I don't buy that tbh as it can be evident in the jpeg and also in RAW processed in Fuji's own silkypix software.

I just wish they'd go back to the traditional bayer sensor, if they did I could see myself completely moving to Fuji. The cameras are a joy to use and the lenses are superb. I know they say that the X-Trans has benefits in noise handling etc, but you only have to look at the D500 to see that's not the case. Also, AFAIK Fuji RAWs have some NR applied to make them look cleaner, even if you have NR turned off which is another bug bear.
 
Thanks for this, and your other posts. It's refreshing to read some balanced comments - most are biased one way or the other as people seek to justify their own purchasing decisions. And XT-2 vs 7D2 is a good comparison I think (y)

I have to admit, while I have moved on my 7D Mk1 & my 6D, along with some lenses, I still have my 7D2 with Sigma 150-600 Sport, and a 300mm f4 (with a 1.4EX). I just can't commit to selling it at present, even though it hardly ever comes out because of the weight compared to my X-T2 & 100-400.

There's just something nagging at the back of my mind that, when I go up to Mull this summer, the 7D2 will be there for me to "get" the Eagle shots that I want. That said, I use it so rarely it takes ages for me to get back into using again. Maybe I should put more time in with the Fuji's, but for most of my photography, the Fuji's are holding their own. I very rarely pick the Canon gear up now, even going to my local WWT site, I take the Fooj, it's nicer to use, easier to carry, and it's results are fine (As much as I love shooting birds & wildlife, I have never impressed myself no matter what body/lens combo I've been using)...
 
Have you done the firmware updates for the X-T2 and 100-400, Steve? Made a big difference to them (when using the 2x telecon especially!)
 
Thanks for this, and your other posts. It's refreshing to read some balanced comments - most are biased one way or the other as people seek to justify their own purchasing decisions. And XT-2 vs 7D2 is a good comparison I think (y)

Your comment about the 'flip-book' is also very relevant to sports shooting. It used to be a show-stopper with mirrorless and sports, but now it seems to be more of an irritation that can be worked around. Would that be a fair way of describing it? Room for improvement, but doable?



Yes, there's so much more to it than just the camera's ability. The lens, the AF tracking parameters set, and the sheer skill of the photographer in keeping the AF point/s accurately nailed. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

I think that the EVF and refresh rate of the X-T2 has made it easier but there definitely is a lot of scope for improvement.It would be so much better if there was an option to switch off playback at capture in the viewfinder as the quality of image and refresh rate is superb until you push the shutter button.
Switching between systems is my biggest problem as you never really adapt over to the Fuji but if you spend a weekend shooting with it then you certainly get used to using the system and learn to allow for the delay when shooting pans in burst mode.
Really wish the Fuji was bigger aswell as although I love the weight saving I find the command dials and buttons are rather close together and small compared to the Canon cameras.

For what the original poster is after I feel the X-T2 would certainly do the job and save them some weight.
 
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I think that the EVF and refresh rate of the X-T2 has made it easier but there definitely is a lot of scope for improvement.It would be so much better if there was an option to switch off playback at capture in the viewfinder as the quality of image and refresh rate is superb until you push the shutter button.
.

The new firmware addresses this. If you choose the new DSLR review mode, it doesn't show you the shot just taken in the EVF - it shows the shot just taken on the LCD instead. I don't think they realised how significant this was for avoiding the flip book effect in the EVF. I've only had a quick play, but what you see in the EVF is continually live, what you've taken only appears in the LCD. The EVF obviously blinks during the exposure, but it's not trying to show you that still frame now in this mode. I think it dramatically changes how useful the camera is for a moving target.
 
The new firmware addresses this. If you choose the new DSLR review mode, it doesn't show you the shot just taken in the EVF - it shows the shot just taken on the LCD instead. I don't think they realised how significant this was for avoiding the flip book effect in the EVF. I've only had a quick play, but what you see in the EVF is continually live, what you've taken only appears in the LCD. The EVF obviously blinks during the exposure, but it's not trying to show you that still frame now in this mode. I think it dramatically changes how useful the camera is for a moving target.

Many thanks for that,just changed over from EVF with eye sensor to that setting so now excited to try out at work on Sunday and Monday at Brands Hatch :)
 
Hi All,

I've been looking for a possible replacement camera for my ageing Canon 5D iii. I mostly photograph people and events such as charity cycle rides, runs walks The 5D3 is obviously no sports camera, but it does the job well enough for these kinds of activities. I tend to use the 70-200mm lens and 24-70mm

So these combinations are obviously really heavy and I've been looking for either a second camera or possible longer term replacement of the Canon.

I read great things about the Fuji and the autofocus and tracking and I'm wondering if it's on par with the Canon?

I love the idea of a smaller lighter camera for all day use, but I'm nervous about investing in another camera system without getting some views from people who actually own and use the camera?


I moved from 5DIII + 7DII combo to a single X-T2 body. I was very nervous as having built up to FF, I felt I was trading away capability. I'm very happy with the switch overall. IQ was my biggest fear, and I've been extremely content in this regard - there are plenty of landscape speakers at my Photographic Society who've made the switch are are equally happy. The dynamic range, and ability to pull stuff from the shadows are a step up from the Canon. The Fuji lenses and the lack of anti alias filter, mean images are more satisfyingly sharp and detailed from the start. That's not to say the Fuji is ultimately sharper, but I'd say it's pretty much a wash. Noise on the Fuji is very very well controlled and not at all obnoxious.

Handling: Lots rave about the Fuji with it's manual controls. I don't mind manual controls, but I'm not convinced it's progress either. The 5DIII (and 7DII) are excellent handling cameras. The Fuji feels a little unfinished/unrefined/unintuitive sometimes. I knew the Canon inside out and muscle memory did the rest. I've had the Fuji for 6 months now, and I'm still getting used to it, still occasionally cursing design decisions etc. That's not to say it's bad, it isn't. It's just the Canon's are undoubtedly better handling cameras in my view. The control dial on the Canon and the logic behind how buttons worked and the speed with which you can navigate the interface were unsurpassed. The Fuji is getting better with each firmware iteration.

Crop Sensor. I suppose I was concerned about the deeper DOF resulting from an APS-C sensor. However, I've now swung the other way. The money I saved from the sale of my Canon gear, I put into quality Fuji lenses. I have 1.2 and 1.4 lenses and Fuji's 2.8 Zooms now, whereas on the Canon I had 2.8 zooms/lens and the 85 1.2. If I need narrow DOF, I have better capability than I did with the Canon even with the crop factor. So I've more than overcome that disadvantage. If it's even a disadvantage. The Canon 85 1.2 was difficult to use wide open because of the very narrow DOF - so you'd need to stop down a bit. With the Fuji 56 1.2 it acts more like an 85 1.8, but with the light gathering advantages of being 1.2. Thus you don't need to stop it down to get manageable DOF. Swings and roundabouts.

I don't shoot sport - so I haven't used C mode that much, but I didn't on the Canon either.

More than anything, the Fuji and it's more compact lenses, mean I have the flexibility to travel really light, or with the same bag brimming, I can have more capability. As a consequence I've used it far more than I was using the Canon gear, because it's a joy to use, rather than a chore to use. I think they've hit the sweet spot between system size, IQ and chosen compromises well. The only think I really wish is that it had a control dial like the Canon on the rear, and a 3.2" LCD (and that they refined the firmware a bit more - which they will).
 
Have you done the firmware updates for the X-T2 and 100-400, Steve? Made a big difference to them (when using the 2x telecon especially!)

I have Nod, in fact last weekend I went through both bodies and all my lenses to make sure they were up to date. I'm sure it's just a confidence thing, and I need to spend more time shooting with the X-T2 & 100-400 to get me happy with it.

My plan, eventually, is to move on the 7D2 & long lenses, and use the capital to buy a 2nd X-T2 (graphite) plus a 50-140mm f2.8. The black T2 will stay with the 100-400, and the new one will be my "every day" camera, my wife wants the T1.
 
It's a well documented 'issue'. Some are in denial, some just don't see it, and some don't care ;) Some people say that it's nothing to do with Fuji files per se but a limit of software not being able to interpret the X-Trans properly. I don't buy that tbh as it can be evident in the jpeg and also in RAW processed in Fuji's own silkypix software.

I just wish they'd go back to the traditional bayer sensor, if they did I could see myself completely moving to Fuji. The cameras are a joy to use and the lenses are superb. I know they say that the X-Trans has benefits in noise handling etc, but you only have to look at the D500 to see that's not the case. Also, AFAIK Fuji RAWs have some NR applied to make them look cleaner, even if you have NR turned off which is another bug bear.

Be interesting to see these artifacts ;)

Do you get the same problem with in-camera JPEGs? Don't quote me on this but I have an idea that even Silkipix struggles with X-Trans. Or at least it did initially, maybe they've sorted it now.
 
Be interesting to see these artifacts ;)

Do you get the same problem with in-camera JPEGs? Don't quote me on this but I have an idea that even Silkipix struggles with X-Trans. Or at least it did initially, maybe they've sorted it now.
both your questions (jpeg/slikpix) have answers in the bit you quoted!
tbh i keep spotting parts of fuji images with really odd rendering (just look though the fuji thread and you should see them), i think are the same as snerkler talks about, i am looking at adding or possibly changing systems and this rendering is enough at this point to stop me buying back into fuji.
 
The jpegs could still show problems if the in camera settings are set incorrectly,in LR i turn detail high and sharpening low and depending on the particular shot work on certain settings,there isn't a one size fits all and the files can take more work to overcome some issues that the xtrans can give in some situations
 
both your questions (jpeg/slikpix) have answers in the bit you quoted!
tbh i keep spotting parts of fuji images with really odd rendering (just look though the fuji thread and you should see them), i think are the same as snerkler talks about, i am looking at adding or possibly changing systems and this rendering is enough at this point to stop me buying back into fuji.
Again same question that I asked @snerkler why not point us to one of these images and highlight the strange rendering. I'm not being trollish here, I would really like to know what it is you're talking about, because I don't see it, either in my images or others. Although again, I don't pixel peep.
 
Again same question that I asked @snerkler why not point us to one of these images and highlight the strange rendering. I'm not being trollish here, I would really like to know what it is you're talking about, because I don't see it, either in my images or others. Although again, I don't pixel peep.
tbh i cant be bothered to search:p. its a long thread! but if i spot one i will say, if you search on sneklers posts he has posted an example multiple times.
just to edit here- i dont pixel peep to spot it, or look 100% it jumps out at me on other images. id love not to see it as i really like fuji
 
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On artefacts. I've seen artefacts in LR if I oversharpen. So I don't oversharpen. The Fuji files really don't need much sharpening. If I oversharpen Canon files, I get haloes. So I don't oversharpen them either. :thinking:
 
both your questions (jpeg/slikpix) have answers in the bit you quoted! <snip>

The way I read this sentence 'can be evident in the jpeg and also in RAW processed in Fuji's own silkypix software' was that he was referring to Silkipix JPEGs ;)
 
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