Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS USM, What would you do?

camera operator

camera operator

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Name
James A Ferrari
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Yes
Image Quality is King.
Your Choices are the Canon 7D mk ii or the Full Frame Canon 6D.
One camera Body, dedicated to the lens.
The other camera Body will become a Multi Tool using a Variety of lenses.

Personally, I would like to dedicate the 6D to the Huge 500 F4. and save the 7Dmkii to use my growing variety of lighter, easier to handle lenses.
I do not want to use a Canon, EF 1.4X II Extender.

Would the 6D be my best Match for the 500mm?

Am I right in believing that the 500mm was designed for a full framed sensor?

Thank you in advance for your opinions.
 
Wildlife, Owls at sunset using a tripod,
Catching them in Flight.
Sometimes can fill the frame with the 6D, but still will do a bit of cropping for more than 70 percent of the shots.
Lately I have been photographing squirrels, and many smaller animals. Minimum distance is about 15 feet.

Here are some examples of photos I took with my older Canon 60D three years ago.
(Note: I just added two photos of squirrels shot with the 500mm and the 7dmkii)

flic.kr

James Ferrari

Explore James Ferrari’s 367 photos on Flickr!
flic.kr flic.kr

Have not changed the subject matter, but with my latest investments in gear, I'm hoping to explore the possibilities.
The Canon 60D was my first introduction to the Hobby and rarely gets used anymore.
Took some mighty fine photos with that body,
 
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Just some observations?

6D AF performance may be less than the 7D2 = so less responsive in rapid wildlife movements. NB in low light conditions the 6D should outperform the 7D2 with it's better DR and lower sensor noise.

You mentioned cropping (a lot?) Do not forget the 7D2 with it's crop sensor x1.6 increases the FoV to the equivalent of 800mm when using your 500mm lens. In wildlife the mantra has always been 'the more reach the better...'

Apart from photography being about the light........the choice of gear can perhaps be summed up akin to the expression ~ no such thing as bad weather, just poor choice of clothing ;)
 
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toohuge said:
Is there a specific reason you are considering the 6D and not the 5D mkiv or even a used 1dxii?
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A very good point re: the 5D4.......I found my 5D3 (since sold all my Canon gear) was a good one for all purposes.

However, my post above was that on his profile he already has both the 6D and 7D2 ;)
 
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I've got both the 7dmk2 and the 6d with the 500mmf4 and the 6d is just a bit too slow I find for wildlife but its a lot better in low light with something a bit slower but hopefully I will invest in an R6 or if Canon comes out with an R7 but both have their place I swap between the 500mmf4 and sigma 150-600 on both cameras
 
You already own both camera bodies and the lens, so just use them ans see which you prefer.
 
I would switch bodies depending on what I am shooting. As mentioned above, when shooting small subjects you need as much reach as possible. You already have all the equipment so perhaps just experiment.
 
So is it better to use the likes of a cropped sensor (7D Mk1 or 2) for further reach with wildlife photography...?

I’d like to get into this field of photography at some point.....but unsure which Canon body and lens is possibly best to aim for...(?)

Peter
 
macvisual said:
So is it better to use the likes of a cropped sensor (7D Mk1 or 2) for further reach with wildlife photography...?

I’d like to get into this field of photography at some point.....but unsure which Canon body and lens is possibly best to aim for...(?)

Peter
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For me yes, but I talking about small birds. For larger wildlife it is less of an issue. Others will suggest a teleconvertor or tighter cropping or a micro 4/3 system.

The 7D i was too noisy for me, the mark ii is much better and with a decent noise reduction program produces good results. The mark ii is getting old and by all accounts is unlikely to be replaced. There is no right answer although I expect a 1DX iii and an ef 500L f4 is ii will be hard to beat if money is no object.
 
First, thank you everyone for your responses.
I am dedicating one body to the F4 500mm and have to choose.
Since I want the very best Image Quality, I am opting for the 6D,

The 7Dmkii is my everyday camera and is very comfortable with the Canon EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens.
Although, I usually walk around with the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM (Nano) Lens attached,

The smaller, lighter lenses let me get a lot closer to the wildlife and the Nano is fast enough to capture and track even a fly in flight.

The 500mm is a beast and needs to be at least 15 feet away from the subject.
I try to pick my subjects to fill the frame.
I am convinced that the sensor in the 6D and the 500mm are a perfect match for maximum image quality, so it does not have to be the fastest at tracking.
If I am picking out a common yellow throat, I will use my Nano 70-300 and the 7Dmkii. This combination is the best for getting up close and personal.

Once mounted, I believe the 6D will be attached to the 500mm for a year.
Dedicating the Tripod and the Gimbal to the lens.
Everyone brought up some very good points.
I will probably acquire another full frame camera for the other lenses I have in my arsenal.

I need another account like Flickr. (I've run out of free storage there)
I view the 500mm like one would view a Bazooka.
It is a big gun.
It is not as agile, but does what it has been designed to do.
 
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camera operator said:
Once mounted, I believe the 6D will be attached to the 500mm for a year.
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This part I do not understand. I have two bodies and six lenses, I match lens to body to suit the circumstances in-front of me. The design of the system had the interchangeability of lenses in mind to suit different situations.

Can I ask why are you fixed on dedicating a lens to a body for a year?

T
 
camera operator said:
I need another account like Flickr. (I've run out of free storage there)
I view the 500mm like one would view a Bazooka.
It is a big gun.
It is not as agile, but does what it has been designed to do.
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Sorry but the above statement made me howl , your on here talking about 2 camera bodies and a host of expensive lens and associated gear ,but your balking at paying for a Flickr PRO account that if I go on last years prices cost me around 78pence a week , for unlimited hi.res storage … I do feel you need to get your priorities in order .. it’s just another expense .. but one worth every penny it costs
 
camera operator said:
First, thank you everyone for your responses.
I am dedicating one body to the F4 500mm and have to choose.
Since I want the very best Image Quality, I am opting for the 6D,

The 7Dmkii is my everyday camera and is very comfortable with the Canon EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens.
Although, I usually walk around with the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM (Nano) Lens attached,

The smaller, lighter lenses let me get a lot closer to the wildlife and the Nano is fast enough to capture and track even a fly in flight.

The 500mm is a beast and needs to be at least 15 feet away from the subject.
I try to pick my subjects to fill the frame.
I am convinced that the sensor in the 6D and the 500mm are a perfect match for maximum image quality, so it does not have to be the fastest at tracking.
If I am picking out a common yellow throat, I will use my Nano 70-300 and the 7Dmkii. This combination is the best for getting up close and personal.

Once mounted, I believe the 6D will be attached to the 500mm for a year.
Dedicating the Tripod and the Gimbal to the lens.
Everyone brought up some very good points.
I will probably acquire another full frame camera for the other lenses I have in my arsenal.

I need another account like Flickr. (I've run out of free storage there)
I view the 500mm like one would view a Bazooka.
It is a big gun.
It is not as agile, but does what it has been designed to do.
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The 7D mkii with a 400mm outreaches the 6D with the 500mm, for the loss of one stop. Having used a 7d mkii with a 500mm F4, I'd stay with that combination and use Topaz DeNoise. The 6D with a 400mm at one stop higher iso will equate to the 7D if you're cropping. It sounds to me like you've got a plan and are looking for people to agree with it. Personally I'd go the other way around.....
 
the black fox said:
Sorry but the above statement made me howl , your on here talking about 2 camera bodies and a host of expensive lens and associated gear ,but your balking at paying for a Flickr PRO account that if I go on last years prices cost me around 78pence a week , for unlimited hi.res storage … I do feel you need to get your priorities in order .. it’s just another expense .. but one worth every penny it costs
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I am 65 and am now on a fixed income. Living on 900.00 a month. Being retired means I will now have time to enjoy my hobbies without restrictions. The 500mm has a minor issue with the mount. The mount is very tight and my fear is that it will damage the cameras if I switch out bodies so I am trying to make the best decision possible. I do realize how my situation is unique and outside of the norm. Finding another camera body will be a major expense, but I have set up a special account at my bank to build funds for my hobby interests.
 
camera operator said:
I am 65 and am now on a fixed income. Living on 900.00 a month. Being retired means I will now have time to enjoy my hobbies without restrictions. The 500mm has a minor issue with the mount. The mount is very tight and my fear is that it will damage the cameras if I switch out bodies so I am trying to make the best decision possible. I do realize how my situation is unique and outside of the norm. Finding another camera body will be a major expense, but I have set up a special account at my bank to build funds for my hobby interests.
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Oh dear ,now here’s me with a dodgy ticker ,and 75+ with far less to play with .if you really need something sell something to pay for it simples init
 
GordonM said:
The 7D mkii with a 400mm outreaches the 6D with the 500mm, for the loss of one stop. Having used a 7d mkii with a 500mm F4, I'd stay with that combination and use Topaz DeNoise. The 6D with a 400mm at one stop higher iso will equate to the 7D if you're cropping. It sounds to me like you've got a plan and are looking for people to agree with it. Personally I'd go the other way around.....
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Thank you for your input. As it sits right now, I have the 7Dmkii mounted on the 500mm, so I may very well keep this set-up. This frees up my full frame for the Canon EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS USM Lens. The 500mm is no longer supported by Canon and the expense of having the mount diagnosed would mean selling some equipment to fund the repair. IF the mount messes up either of the camera bodies, I will be forced to make some very hard decisions. I figured it would be too difficult to explain the complexities involved, but this information is necessary if I am to get the best advice moving forward. In the past I have used the 7Dmkii 90 percent of the time. Now I am expanding my hobby to include more than just Wildlife. Trying to make the most reasonable decision to effectively use the various lenses. This is why I am considering the 6D as the permanent mount for the 500mm. I will get the best image quality from my most professional lens. and let the 7Dmkii handle the rest.
 
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macvisual said:
So is it better to use the likes of a cropped sensor (7D Mk1 or 2) for further reach with wildlife photography...?

I’d like to get into this field of photography at some point.....but unsure which Canon body and lens is possibly best to aim for...(?)

Peter
Click to expand...
In my opinion and experience the 7Dmkii and the Canon EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens will give you the best features for the sharpest image quality in an easy to use package. OTOH, I actually prefer to use the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM Lens (NANO) because of the zoom and the very fast nano focus system that locks on to a bird in flight and gives the most hits that are in focus. Both lenses are very well matched with the capabilities of the 7Dmkii. The Nano is sooo easy to walk around with. the 400 is just plain sharp to the nth degree. the 500mm F4 is the absolute sharpest, but that sharpness comes at a price, both physically and financially.
 
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camera operator said:
In my opinion and experience the 7Dmkii and the Canon EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens will give you the best features for the sharpest image quality in an easy to use package. OTOH, I actually prefer to use the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM Lens (NANO) because of the zoom and the very fast nano focus system that locks on to a bird in flight and gives the most hits that are in focus. Both lenses are very well matched with the capabilities of the 7Dmkii. The Nano is sooo easy to walk around with. the 400 is just plain sharp to the nth degree. the 500mm F4 is the absolute sharpest, but that sharpness comes at a price, both physically and financially.
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Out of interest do you find that the 500 f4 focuses on BIF better than your other lenses?
 
Brentor said:
Out of interest do you find that the 500 f4 focuses on BIF better than your other lenses?
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No, it is comparatively slower, but, I have been trying to catch the family of owls silently dropping into flight and it is fast enough to capture that.
The 500mm is sharp as a tack and gathers a lot of light as the sun is setting. but it is not the fastest at focusing.
The Nano system on the other hand is instant when the lighting is good, The 500mm is no slouch, it does focus extremely well, but it is not the fastest (better) on BIF than the other lenses.
I have tried to hand hold and catch birds in flight, but the lighter lenses are far better at locking on and following the Birds in Flight. It is just too large for me to handle well,
 
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The most successful way I have been using the 500mm is to set it up on the tripod, then pull out another camera body (The 60D) and use the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM Nano Lens, I use the 60D for Birds in flight and use the tripod for larger, slower birds (Ducks on the water, Herons on the tree tops)
 
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Not wishing to be rude but if you think that the 500/4 IS is slow to focus then there is either something wrong with it or it's user error.
 
DemiLion said:
Not wishing to be rude but if you think that the 500/4 IS is slow to focus then there is either something wrong with it or it's user error.
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Agree, the 500mm is no slouch, but the nano is faster, quieter, lighter and easy to handhold, track and the fact that it can zoom allows for some easy acquisition of the target. Being able to see and find the bird in flight is a huge plus. I have had instances where the 500mm was pointed at a bird in flight with-in a few degrees of center and was invisible because it could not find and focus. I never have that problem with the 70-300 nano. If you have not shot the Nano, you need to try a copy. It is faster than the 400mm F5.6 and the 500mm F4 and in fact faster than any of my other "L" series lenses. But, you are right, I would never describe a fifth place Olympic Runner as being slow, just that the first place runner is consistently faster. A Bazooka is not as fast nor as easy to aim as a normal firearm, but it does its job extremely well. Lets face it, the 500mm is heavier and harder to swing than the light weight EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens and the even lighter, more compact EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM Lens. I should not have used the word slow to describe the 500mm. For the time being, I am using the 60D for the smaller birds in flight and save the 500mm for when I can fill the frame. I have just started shooting the 500, so I expect in time I will be faster and more consistent with it, but I will never be as quick as I am with the lighter set-ups. Image Quality is why I purchased the 500mm, not for its ability to catch little birds hidden in the branches only to dart off when they see the big glass coming around. I use binoculars to spot birds and not a telescope. Most would find that the binoculars are faster in the field.
:Try this link: Canon EF 70-300 mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM review - Introduction - LensTip.com
 
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GordonM said:
I have to say on a 7D mkii I’d never describe focus as slow, even with a 1.4 mkiii extender.
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Totally agree, that is why I bought the 7Dmkii, it is far better than the 60D I was using.
I love the 7Dmkii and miss having it readily available, now that it is mounted on the 500mm.
and yes, one could quickly remove it from the 500mm, but until someone figures out why the mount is so stiff on the 500mm, I will be fearful of exchanging bodies too frequently.
There are three possibilities for the 500mm. The 60D, the 6D or the 7Dmkii.. Perhaps the 60D makes the most sense in my situation. Trying to make one decision and hoping it will be the most logical, long term decision.
 
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@camera operator

Re: the 500mm mount.
1)new lens or secondhand?
2) when you say stiff, do you mean at a particular point on the rotation of mounting or from the start?
3) you seem to infer(if I read it right) that there is no obvious sign of damage or distortion to the mount, is that so?
4) are there any witness marks on the body mount to suggest that metal is "rubbing" on metal?

I can only surmise that if the answers are 'no' to #3 & 4 above that there is nothing to little wrong with the lens. And that it is within tolerance but just somewhat more stiff than others.

The only way someone(?) will figure out what is wrong with it, is to get Canon @ Elstree or perhaps a place like Fixation to examine it with specific reference to getting a condition report about it!
 
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1) Second Hand
2) From the start, once past a certain point it feels normal.
3) Yes, no obvious damage or distortion of the Mount.
4) Nothing readily obvious, but i have not done a really critical exam.
I have only installed and removed the lens about three times.

First time I mounted it to the 7Dmkii, Took about 70 shots,
The next day I mounted it on the 6D and it was a bit tighter, but again, once I got past a certain spot it went on like any other lens.
Surprisingly, the 6D did not want to focus (Intermittent) I would remove the lens a half a turn and tighten it back, but still had some issues..
Eventually it seemed to work fine,
I took about 120 shots that day.
I mounted the 400 F5.6 to the 6D and continued to have problems (Intermittently).
I shot about 65-75 shots.
I mounted the EF 24–105mm f/3.5–5.6 IS STM Lens and it worked fine..
So I cleaned the contacts on the 6D and also the contacts on the EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens.
After re-mounting the 400mm to the 6D all was well and have taken about 200 shots with that combo.
I mounted the Canon EF 70-200mm 2.8L is USM Lens yesterday to the 6D and it shoots fine (About 80 shots)
I inspected the mount on the 500mm before installing it to the 7Dmkii last week and it again was tight at the start (But not as tight as the 6D) and then turned the rest of the way like any other lens, It shoots fine with the 7Dmkii.
Fearful of playing with it till I make a decision.
Like I said, it shoots fine the way it is.
I am keeping the 500mm (Looks like new)

Thank you for trying to understand and for any suggestions you may have,
Also, Thank you for the ref: Canon @ Elstree and Fixation
 
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Hmmm!

Purely a supposition on my part and based on my old Exa, Pentax, Canon EOS, Canon dSLR's and now my Olympus' (from the late 60's through to today)

There were and are minor variations in the way lenses will mount.... therefore unless you can hear or feel grinding and in the absence of witness marks indicating that it is mechanically binding and likely to degrade the mount, what you are noticing is within tolerance variations.

PS by way of illustration about variance ~ in regard to mFT (Panasonic & Olympus). I recall reading of the Panasonic 100-400mm lens would fit on a Panny body aok but on an Olympus body would be a poor fit and cause score marks on the body mount.

This was not a common problem but clearly (?) the manufacturing tolerance on the mFT mount of that lens had an outlier variance. On the other hand I don't recall reading of any Oly lens doing the same on a Panny body!
 
macvisual said:
For serious birding or general wildlife photography which may be better suited body wise to purchase I wonder; 1DX/1 or a 7D/2 ?

Any knowledge/experience appreciated.


mac
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The best camera is the one you are holding at the time.
Many things need to be considered.
Location,
Accessibility,
Budget,
Weather.
The 7Dmkii is affordable, the lenses are affordable. the weight and size is portable.
Is it the absolute best?
There are a lot of high quality options.
I would have no problem using a Canon 1DX, but have become accustom to the 7Dmkii.

This would be a great topic for Tony Northrup to address.
 
So, after some testing and comparisons, the decision has been made.
The lens has been mounted to the Canon 60D which gives great performance on the tripod, while at the same time, frees up my other two camera bodies for all of my other lenses.

For most of my wildlife photography, the 7Dmkii will be right at home with the Canon EF 400mm F/5.6L USM Lens and the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM Lens.
For Weddings, portraits and events I will be using the the 6D coupled with the Canon EF 70-200mm 2.8L is USM Lens, the Canon EF 24–105mm f/3.5–5.6 IS STM Lens and the Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM Pancake Lens.

The 60D has helped by filling the void caused by the odd problem with the mount of the 500,
Very happy with the performance of the 60D coupled with the large and heavy 500mm.

Thank you to all who helped me decide the best, most logical path with the tools I have at hand.
 
DemiLion said:
Not wishing to be rude but if you think that the 500/4 IS is slow to focus then there is either something wrong with it or it's user error.
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The 500mm is not slow, it may be slower, but not what most would consider slow.

That being said, this is what Ken Rockwell stated about the : Canon 70-300 Nano USM lens:

There really is no comparison: this lens focuses not just faster than every other lens, it focuses instantly as well as silently, not just quietly.
Not only is its autofocus the fastest, its optics, handling, size, weight and price are also superb.
There is no comparison; no other lens comes close.
The world's reference pro tele zoom is the Canon 100-400mm IS L II, which costs several times as much and weighs twice as much. It focuses just about as fast and focuses even closer in spite of its longer focal lengths, and it's also made of all-metal instead of mostly plastic.
I own both. I grab my 100-400 when I have serious work to do, and I grab the 70-300 when I don't feel like carrying my 100-400 all day. The pictures are pretty much the same, the 100-400 has a little more ability and flexibility, but it's so much more to carry.

Seems like Ken Rockwell agrees with my experience.
 
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macvisual said:
For serious birding or general wildlife photography which may be better suited body wise to purchase I wonder; 1DX/1 or a 7D/2 ?

Any knowledge/experience appreciated.


mac
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Owned both, Still owe and use the 1Dx 100% recommend over the 7D2 anyday of the week. Better in all aspects, any 1Dx series I/II/III is a king at anything that requires fast AF/Movement and FPS
 
macvisual said:
For serious birding or general wildlife photography which may be better suited body wise to purchase I wonder; 1DX/1 or a 7D/2 ?

Any knowledge/experience appreciated.


mac
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Follow up from that point, heres some shots taken with 6D & 500mm Canon 7D II and 500mm and 1Dx and 500mm having experience with them all.

Canon 6D + 500mm f/4L IS USM
51230904010_b0659af7fd_c.jpg


Canon 7D II + 500mm f/4L IS USM
51229835516_d711dd7c49_c.jpg


Canon 1Dx + 500mm f/4L IS USM
51230047758_4c6d2af7ca_c.jpg


Overall they are all good camera, at the end of the day it mostly comes down to how you can use them and how everything is setup, the 6D for wildlife I had the most dramas with as its really not designed for it, with FPS + AF, making life really hard, useless at times, unless the subject is somewhat still...if you can get a 1Dx its far better of a camera and features the benefits from all of them really, it takes a lot of the hard work and frustration you could say away and makes it easy when/if you changed over from a 7D or similar, its highly noticeable and the hit rate is night and day difference over the others from my experience. Don't get me wrong they are all great bodies that can achieve the results, but to save the stress just grab a 1Dx makes life easier, that being said the 7D II setup right can be a beast but if your in the market go 1Dx.


camera operator said:
I have had instances where the 500mm was pointed at a bird in flight with-in a few degrees of center and was invisible because it could not find and focus.
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Does this happen alot? Might be worth something getting looked at, also check your case modes and how they are tuned and how its setup AF etc, never really had a issue like that with the 500mm, its lighting quick for me this shot below was taken with the 7D2 and still managed to get a kingfisher inflight.

51230904400_e2cb8f8c23_c.jpg



Hope some of this helps (y)
 
Ken is Hit and Miss, but he does give us his opinion.
I have been out shooting this afternoon with the 60D and the 500mm
The 60D does slow down the focus compared to the 7Dmkii, but I am still happy with my choice.
 
Joeturner11 said:
Does this happen alot? Might be worth something getting looked at, also check your case modes and how they are tuned and how its setup AF etc, never really had a issue like that with the 500mm, its lighting quick for me this shot below was taken with the 7D2 and still managed to get a kingfisher inflight.

Hope some of this helps (y)
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Kingfishers are tough and that photo is tight (Great Shot).
I have a few Kingfishers, but not with the colors and detail you were able to achieve.
 
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