Canon EF mount users - what does the future hold?

[LongLensPhotography]

I have been one of the more loyal canon users over the years. However, now I can sense the ecosystem is under threat from Canon's own new offerings, let alone the outsider competition.

I am happy with my kit at the moment, maybe except my 5DIII is getting a bit worn out and dated, and I wanted a new fancy short to mid tele prime (85mm 1.2-1.4 or the crazy sigma 105?)...
I could just get 5DIV and the lens and pretend nothing is happening... or should I? When the system reaches EOL good luck selling any lenses for more than 1/2 of their current used value and good luck upgrading. FD and Sony alpha taught us a thing or two.

I've spoken to canon and of course they were extremely vague on the issue, but I got a couple of replies with pretty much a bombshell hidden between the lines. Their new lenses in their own words are far better than old EF line (fair enough, that's standard marketing language), then he went into a number of reasons and told me the adapters are only supposed to be a short term solution. 5D mkV is likely, though they wouldn't confirm its coming and maybe even mkVI if you are very lucky but then that is certainly the very end of the road. Current RF cameras are crap and all lenses he told me will be some £500+ more than the EF equivalents. So much for being lighter and smaller and simpler! Not very exciting or encouraging so far.... It's basically a whole new system with no proper body yet on the market.

Then there is sony with pretty much the same transition pathway using the adapters.... Proper cameras already, except viewfinders and small size. At least the lenses can be bought for reasonable prices and its a viable ecosystem already.

Nikon is going through the same mess as Canon and is at the mercy of Sony for all the electrics... Not the best move?

Then there is the bombshell announcement of Panasonic S FF kit with L-mount shared with Sigma (good) and Leica (useless to most). Cameras will have nice size and best EVF out there. Maybe there will be EF adapter too? And that high res mode delivering nearly 200mp shots!

Finally we have Medium format from Fuji and the others. Price is obviously in a different bracket but it may be a nice step up for some...

So Canon users, what are you going to do?
I imagine same applies to Nikon just with less adapting solutions possible.

 

[nandbytes]

I used to be an a-mount user and I switched to e-mount basically for the reasons you mention i.e. lenses devaluing. I lost about £400 in the swap and in the grand scheme of things that's not a lot and I would have lost nearly £1K now.
EF on the other hand will survive lot longer than Sony a-mount lenses did. For starters EF is the most adaptable mount in that it can be adapted to RF, E, Z, and may be even SL in future like you say. But it will eventually become less desirable just like a-mount lenses, though I think F-mount will be the first to follow.

IMO the people who think they are saving money by simply buying the same brand and adapting DSLR lenses are kidding themselves. "Penny wise, pound foolish" and all that There is a good reason why manufactures just didn't ask users to adapt forever, all the new optics and improvement will move over to new mirrorless mounts. Unless someone wants to adapt EF/F/A-mounts forever the cost of swapping will increase in the future. While adapting was great fun as an early adapter it gets fiddly and tiresome or expensive as I realised.

As for Nikon being at mercy of Sony, so are Fuji, Olympus, Pentax by that logic. But I don't think Nikon is at the mercy of Sony, they simply buy what they feel are from the best (best could be performance, finance, efficiency, whatever else...). Sony sensor division is separate from their camera division. Sony camera division may well go down the hole but their sensor division certainly won't in the near foreseeable future.

I don't think we'll ever see a 5DVI, think we'll be lucky to see a 5DV. I don't think we'll many more optics to EF either. Same trend applies for nikon.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I think we will see 5DV just as Sony A99II come out well past "sell before" date. Maybe next year? Camera design and testing calendars run well ahead of the release schedule and I really doubt they were this brave to discontinue at least 2 years back. We might see another lens or two for the same reason. This however doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

Is Sony not holding back all their latest sensors for around a year before nikon and others get to use them? I think A7RIII sensor took a long time to filter to D850. That's how they give edge to their own new releases. Then they happily sell it to all the 3rd parties.

I think I will need to do the maths at the end of the year (xmas promotions) or for the next photography show. If I get good enough offer on A7RIII that may be it at least halfway.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I think I would off load most of my Canon gear bar the tilt shift lens before the year is out.

 

[Chipper]

Really? Or is that deadpan? It doesn't make it useless. Hmm. It's difficult. Robin on here has said that his lenses work even better with the adapters. Hmm.

 

[gerry s]

I wont be getting rid of anything but might think twice about upgrading bodies and don't have to think about Lens` for a while anyway. I would be extremely surprised if anything happened re end of current systems for a few years as I'm sure Canon won't want to p*** of huge amounts of current customers. Can you imagine how many billions of pounds of EF lens there are out there and will Canon really say hey guys can you dump all those and replace with these shiny new jobbies

 

[Raymond Lin]

I wont be getting rid of anything but might think twice about upgrading bodies and don't have to think about Lens` for a while anyway. I would be extremely surprised if anything happened re end of current systems for a few years as I'm sure Canon won't want to p*** of huge amounts of current customers. Can you imagine how many billions of pounds of EF lens there are out there and will Canon really say hey guys can you dump all those and replace with these shiny new jobbies

They won’t announce anything, R&D will just move towards the RF mount and you will see less and less bodies and lenses for the EF mount. The frequency of anything EF mount will be very sparse and then you will notice nothing has come out for it for like 4 years, with the odd user going “they update their bodies in that time frame anyway” and then like 6 years have gone and then you realise it is dead.

Just look at the Sony A mount.

 

[nandbytes]

I think we will see 5DV just as Sony A99II come out well past "sell before" date. Maybe next year? Camera design and testing calendars run well ahead of the release schedule and I really doubt they were this brave to discontinue at least 2 years back. We might see another lens or two for the same reason. This however doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

Is Sony not holding back all their latest sensors for around a year before nikon and others get to use them? I think A7RIII sensor took a long time to filter to D850. That's how they give edge to their own new releases. Then they happily sell it to all the 3rd parties.

I think I will need to do the maths at the end of the year (xmas promotions) or for the next photography show. If I get good enough offer on A7RIII that may be it at least halfway.

I don't think Sony holds back sensors (which I think was the main reason for splitting their sensor division to a separate entity to minimise conflict of interests). At the same time the sensor in D850 is a different one to A7RII/III. The sensor in X-T3, D500, D7500 is not seen in any sony bodies (the latest A6400 still uses the old 24mp sensor). The sensor from Sony A7S and A9 never made it to any of the competitors. Nikon also had the 36mp sensor way before sony did in their A7R. What I am getting at is there is no real correlation or trend. Sony, Nikon, Fuji and whomever else that uses Sony sensors seem to be following their own paths as far as sensors are concerned. Don't think Sony controls or has a handle on Nikon in this respect and if they did I don't think Nikon would be doing business with them so long.

And if I am not mistaken even canon used sony 1" sensors in G7X series

 

[nandbytes]

will Canon really say hey guys can you dump all those and replace with these shiny new jobbies

if they did it wouldn't be the first time
I think history repeating itself was of one of OP's concerns.

 

[TimHughes]

What will I do? My plan is to transition slowly as I need to. At the moment I have all I need and the EOS R isn’t for me. When the RF successor of the 1DXM2 comes out then likely I’ll first change the body, use the EF adapter then switch lenses as new RF ones come out and the EF ones reach EOL. Personally I expect this to take several years. Who knows, maybe I’m completely wrong. In any case I’ve got what I need to take great pictures.

 

[michael23]

My 7d2 is getting on and has cost a lot in repairs (weather sealing fail and main pcb) in the last 12-18 months. I would love to know what canon are doing 7d3/90d wise. New system wise, the only one I connected with and really liked at the photography show was the panasonic s1, there was something I liked about the fuji xt3. The eos r is the first canon camera I haven't liked. I did like the nikon z6 body style, but I just couldn't get on with it and enjoy using it.I will hope canon come with an update to the 7d2 before I have to pay more money out on the 7d2, that replacement should see enough time for the R series evolve in to something more.

 

[Chipper]

I agree. It is a bit nerve wracking to think the kit I’ve worked hard to get might become obsolete in such a short time.

 

[ukaskew]

Many EF lenses work insanely well on Sony a7 bodies, better than natively on Canon bodies in some examples (the 50mm 1.2 is better in every respect on an a7RII than any Canon FF body). I can only imagine that applies to the new Canon mirror less bodies too.

Good EF glass will not significantly devalue for at least half a decade, there are simply too many uses for them. Aside from the mirrorless applications, there are thousands of pro Canon shooters who will not change systems until they have to (such as CPS withdrawing support).

Sony A mount is an interesting case study, despite far, far less application available for A mount glass now the decent glass is still holding very respectable value. I love the Sony Zeiss 135mm 1.8, it's not any cheaper now than it was 5 years ago.

 

[Cagey75]

IMO the people who think they are saving money by simply buying the same brand and adapting DSLR lenses are kidding themselves. "Penny wise, pound foolish" and all that

.

I would disagree with this completely, if the EF lenses work just as good - and some even better [as reported in the R thread] on the new ML bodies, then why the need to upgrade them? Is there any real proof that the RF lenses are much better? The lenses haven't suddenly worsened because there's some new kids on the block. It could be said that those who feel the need to change all their lenses for the newer type are the foolish ones, to use another old expression 'more money than sense'

 

[simonbarker]

I agree. It is a bit nerve wracking to think the kit I’ve worked hard to get might become obsolete in such a short time.

That sounds a little pessimistic given you can happily keep using those EF lenses without any performance penalty, so RF might speed up how much it devalues a bit but unless the performance gap is huge it's not going to be as bad as you fear.

It's a different matter for someone who had to switch from say Sony A to E though as A seems a dead end and there are clear performance issues when adapting.

 

[nandbytes]

I would disagree with this completely, if the EF lenses work just as good - and some even better [as reported in the R thread] on the new ML bodies, then why the need to upgrade them? Is there any real proof that the RF lenses are much better? The lenses haven't suddenly worsened because there's some new kids on the block. It could be said that those who feel the need to change all their lenses for the newer type are the foolish ones, to use another old expression 'more money than sense'

I have a canon EF 100-300mm lens. It works perfectly but there is no denying the are optically and mechanically better lenses now.
Lenses get outdated and manufacturers will stop supporting them. This is one of the reasons to upgrade also.
Also with more demanding sensor newer and better optical design will also be needed.
if you want a smaller setup native lenses can offer this. As I already mention adapters are fiddly and annoying at best unless you plan to adapt forever i.e. glue the adapter onto your R body.

You can disagree all you want but EF lenses will devalue and those do not slowly move over will lose lot more in long run.

 

[Unicronatron]

I would disagree with this completely, if the EF lenses work just as good - and some even better [as reported in the R thread] on the new ML bodies, then why the need to upgrade them? Is there any real proof that the RF lenses are much better? The lenses haven't suddenly worsened because there's some new kids on the block. It could be said that those who feel the need to change all their lenses for the newer type are the foolish ones, to use another old expression 'more money than sense'

Agree with this. EF lenses won't become obsolete over night. If Canon release a version of a lens on the new mount that's an obvious upgrade then the old EF version will drop in value but surely that's no different to what happens if they release a version ii on EF.

 

[Sharky]

Your camera and glass didn't suddenly become terrible with the release of RF glass. Worrying about potential resale value of a lens or body is worrying about the wrong thing imo. You're buying something to use and it will depreciate (with the odd exception) but they'll be a 2nd hand market for EF glass / bodies for some time to come.

As for no proper RF cameras, i think us R owners would disagree with you . Yes there is no pro body yet but the entry level and mid tiers are covered just fine.

EF on the RF mount actually makes sense to me. EF glass performs better on RF bodies (all the glass i've tried) and the lenses are cheaper than eqv RF choices which are currently limited. I picked up a new 70 / 200 2.8 MKIII last week for my R even with the RF version coming later this year. Good glass is good glass.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Agree with this. EF lenses won't become obsolete over night. If Canon release a version of a lens on the new mount that's an obvious upgrade then the old EF version will drop in value but surely that's no different to what happens if they release a version ii on EF.

Yes and no to that. 70-200 mk ii is almost same as iii, and as we see the older ones hold value relatively well. Same happens if the new ones are much more expensive (unless its a big upgrade like 100-400). However once the price point starts to converge the old ones suddenly become devalued dramatically. And we just had the announcements for all the major RF zoom lenses one might want and many new primes. So long as they are +£500 and EF are "current" they still retain value, but it only takes one "switch" or bad market reaction any moment now. Maybe Canon just set the scene and are waiting for us to pull the plug from the old one when we feel ready.

I would disagree with this completely, if the EF lenses work just as good - and some even better

Could you confirm that for wideangle lenses such as 16-35 f/4 work well for landscape applications? I have read somewhere adapters usually have problems with wider lenses outside the centre. Maybe Canon ones are made to higher standard than 3rd party sony equivalents??
But then if the equivalent lens is similarly priced it sure makes sense to start upgrading right away, etc.

 

[nandbytes]

where did I say it'll become obsolete overnight or where did say it will start being terrible glass. I used to shoot plenty of minolta glass. Some of them are still good today and couple of them are still best in their class for optics (eg: Minolta 200mm f2.8). You guys are missing my point completely and i feel there is some amount of conformational bias defending your decisions. I have walked this path already, and that's where I am coming from. But your money, we live in a democracy and you can choose to use it how you see fit.
I have said my bit, whether you agree or disagree or take my advice is entirely up to you. I have nothing more add since I am not interested in long arguments

 

[LongLensPhotography]

What will I do? My plan is to transition slowly as I need to. At the moment I have all I need and the EOS R isn’t for me. When the RF successor of the 1DXM2 comes out then likely I’ll first change the body, use the EF adapter then switch lenses as new RF ones come out and the EF ones reach EOL. Personally I expect this to take several years. Who knows, maybe I’m completely wrong. In any case I’ve got what I need to take great pictures.

That's one way to look at it. You will run bits of the old kit till they break and make your investment work that way. But before you get there and prices already reached rock bottom levels while the alternatives are clearly advantageous you may be a little disappointed or worse losing edge against competitors in more extreme isolated cases.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

where did I say it'll become obsolete overnight or where did say it will start being terrible glass. I used to shoot plenty of minolta glass. Some of them are still good today and couple of them are still best in their class for optics (eg: Minolta 200mm f2.8). You guys are missing my point completely and i feel there is some amount of conformational bias defending your decisions. I have walked this path already, and that's where I am coming from. But your money, we live in a democracy and you can choose to use it how you see fit.
I have said my bit, whether you agree or disagree or take my advice is entirely up to you. I have nothing more add since I am not interested in long arguments

Well no, it won't become bad, but there may be just a lot better options for certain things. For example it may be a lot better AF with the new system, better AF for video which is a fact, wider apertures, the extra control ring (gimmick vs game-changer?) and so on.
85mm f/1.2 may be an interesting case. AF is pretty slow and antiquated on these. And it could be a little sharper. If the new version solves that we should get big price drop on the old one. Interestingly enough the antiquated FD version made quite a comeback into the market.

 

[Cagey75]

where did I say it'll become obsolete overnight or where did say it will start being terrible glass. I used to shoot plenty of minolta glass. Some of them are still good today and couple of them are still best in their class for optics (eg: Minolta 200mm f2.8). You guys are missing my point completely and i feel there is some amount of conformational bias defending your decisions. I have walked this path already, and that's where I am coming from. But your money, we live in a democracy and you can choose to use it how you see fit.
I have said my bit, whether you agree or disagree or take my advice is entirely up to you. I have nothing more add since I am not interested in long arguments

This could well be used as defence for any post on here, you're taking it a little too personally perhaps? I have no bias here, I have never shot a Canon dslr in my life, I was Nikon for over a decade! the rest of my modern era shooting has been with Fuji, Panasonic and Olympus with a little Sony in between [my first dslr was a Sony, also owned an Rx100] - I just think you're way off saying it's silly, pretty much, for Canon users to switch to the R system but continue to use older EF lenses. I don't see any merit in that whatsoever, the EF lenses have already proven to work excellent on the newer bodies, why should anyone have to suddenly upgrade all their lenses? I don't think the RF glass is significantly better by any means, and the selection is severely limited so far.

 

[Cagey75]

Could you confirm that for wideangle lenses such as 16-35 f/4 work well for landscape applications? I have read somewhere adapters usually have problems with wider lenses outside the centre. Maybe Canon ones are made to higher standard than 3rd party sony equivalents??
But then if the equivalent lens is similarly priced it sure makes sense to start upgrading right away, etc.

You should ask RedRobin in the R thread, I don't even shoot Canon, my views are completely neutral here. I've just bought my first Canon lens ever - was delivered today, and I'll be adapting it to an M43 camera. I'm all for adapting, I love that we can do so, use lenses from other systems, Canon's just happen to be the friendliest for that purpose.

 

[TimHughes]

That's one way to look at it. You will run bits of the old kit till they break and make your investment work that way. But before you get there and prices already reached rock bottom levels while the alternatives are clearly advantageous you may be a little disappointed or worse losing edge against competitors in more extreme isolated cases.

In case there is a serious advantage to be had then that would accelerate replacement. I haven't counted recently but I think I've around 20L lenses each great at what they do already. So I really do think it's going to take time, right now I'm not worried and looking forward to taking lots more pictures.

 

[TimHughes]

Well no, it won't become bad, but there may be just a lot better options for certain things. For example it may be a lot better AF with the new system, better AF for video which is a fact, wider apertures, the extra control ring (gimmick vs game-changer?) and so on.
85mm f/1.2 may be an interesting case. AF is pretty slow and antiquated on these. And it could be a little sharper. If the new version solves that we should get big price drop on the old one. Interestingly enough the antiquated FD version made quite a comeback into the market.

The new 85 1.4 is already a big improve for focus speed.

 

[Brazo]

I suspect in five plus years the canikon Mirrorless systems will be more of an attract proposition plus prices of mirrorless will have reduced significantly which will offset the losses sold on your current native lenses.

 

[nandbytes]

This could well be used as defence for any post on here, you're taking it a little too personally perhaps? I have no bias here, I have never shot a Canon dslr in my life, I was Nikon for over a decade! the rest of my modern era shooting has been with Fuji, Panasonic and Olympus with a little Sony in between [my first dslr was a Sony, also owned an Rx100] - I just think you're way off saying it's silly, pretty much, for Canon users to switch to the R system but continue to use older EF lenses. I don't see any merit in that whatsoever, the EF lenses have already proven to work excellent on the newer bodies, why should anyone have to suddenly upgrade all their lenses? I don't think the RF glass is significantly better by any means, and the selection is severely limited so far.

I am not defending anything. I have said my bit and I don't think I can be much clearer. You either get my point or you don't.

I am not suggesting people dump their EF glass tonight and walkout of their nearest camera shop tomorrow morning will just RF glass. That's clearly not pragmatic or realistic. At the same time if you think you'll enjoy adapting lenses for the rest of your life, then you are kidding yourself also.

RF lenses (the ones that exist) IMO does already provide signification advantages:
RF 50mm f1.2 is undoubtedly better than EF counter part which always got mixed reviews
RF 35mm f1.8 is smaller and more capable than EF 35mm f2 + adpater
RF 24-105mm is smaller than EF 24-105mm+adapter (I cannot comment on optics)
RF 28-70 f2 has no equivalent on EF mount (and there probably will never be such a glass for EF mount)

 

[nandbytes]

Could you confirm that for wideangle lenses such as 16-35 f/4 work well for landscape applications? I have read somewhere adapters usually have problems with wider lenses outside the centre. Maybe Canon ones are made to higher standard than 3rd party sony equivalents??
But then if the equivalent lens is similarly priced it sure makes sense to start upgrading right away, etc.

Since you like this lens so much... I know which combination from below I'd rather own


but by all mean go ahead and adapt, the EF 16-35/4 is a great lens no doubt. It not like you'll get any advantage from buying native mirrorless glasses

 

[Raymond Lin]

I suspect in five plus years the canikon Mirrorless systems will be more of an attract proposition plus prices of mirrorless will have reduced significantly which will offset the losses sold on your current native lenses.

In 5 years Canon will have a solid foundation since it is evident that they are throwing everything in their lens design and if what has been released so far and planned is anything to go by, it will be amazing. All they need is to get a decent body!

 

[LongLensPhotography]

RF lenses (the ones that exist) IMO does already provide signification advantages:
RF 50mm f1.2 is undoubtedly better than EF counter part which always got mixed reviews
RF 35mm f1.8 is smaller and more capable than EF 35mm f2 + adpater
RF 24-105mm is smaller than EF 24-105mm+adapter (I cannot comment on optics)
RF 28-70 f2 has no equivalent on EF mount (and there probably will never be such a glass for EF mount)

I saw the following in the TPS as a preview

• RF 85mm F1.2 L USM
• RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 70-200mm F2.8 L IS USM

There was maybe another one too. All should be out within a few months.
I'm not saying 85/1.4 is a bad lens but 1.2 is 1.2 and it does what no other lens can get close to. By the way it looked yuge! much bigger and fatter than EF version.
They mentioned prices and I might as well looked at the medium format stand! If the prices don't move other than the currently inferior sensor I was basically pointed towards the Sony path...

 

[Raymond Lin]

I saw the following in the TPS as a preview

• RF 85mm F1.2 L USM
• RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 70-200mm F2.8 L IS USM

There was maybe another one too. All should be out within a few months.
I'm not saying 85/1.4 is a bad lens but 1.2 is 1.2 and it does what no other lens can get close to. By the way it looked yuge! much bigger and fatter than EF version.
They mentioned prices and I might as well looked at the medium format stand! If the prices don't move other than the currently inferior sensor I was basically pointed towards the Sony path...

Professionals will buy them if the quality is there and judging by the 28-70/2.0 and 50/1.2 RF, they seem to nail the quality.

Size wise...they are gianantic, I think they make great studio lenses but not run and gun wedding lenses.

 

[nandbytes]

I saw the following in the TPS as a preview

• RF 85mm F1.2 L USM
• RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM
• RF 70-200mm F2.8 L IS USM

There was maybe another one too. All should be out within a few months.
I'm not saying 85/1.4 is a bad lens but 1.2 is 1.2 and it does what no other lens can get close to. By the way it looked yuge! much bigger and fatter than EF version.
They mentioned prices and I might as well looked at the medium format stand! If the prices don't move other than the currently inferior sensor I was basically pointed towards the Sony path...

The main reason I am not keen on F1.2 lenses is the price followed by the size. For most practical purposes F1.4 is good enough and cheaper by a fair margin.
I think you would be better off with Sony or Nikon than canon unless you really want those F1.2 lenses.

 

[wave01]

The SLR has been around for over 100 years. I don’t think it will be going away any time soon. That’s because it works and works very well. The new kid on the block mirror less has a lot going for it. It will find its place it the market. The end of the SLR is a long way off.

 

[maarten.dhaese]

So Canon users, what are you going to do?

Like you I have a 5DIII with a number of Canon EF lenses, which I share with some EOS film bodies. I share your concern that used values of EF lenses and bodies will go down over time, but the fact of the matter is if you switch to Canon RF or Sony you will pay a considerable premium for that right now as well.

Canon used to be my only system but is now my second system after Olympus m4/3. Given that I don't use it often, I have decided to stick with my Canon 5DIII for full-frame and if the opportunity presents itself I may upgrade to the 5DIV if I don't lose too much money in the process. If I ever switch to Sony my strategy would be to switch to e.g. the A7III when the A7IV has been out for a while to avoid going through a full depreciation cycle of a new camera body.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

The main reason I am not keen on F1.2 lenses is the price followed by the size. For most practical purposes F1.4 is good enough and cheaper by a fair margin.
I think you would be better off with Sony or Nikon than canon unless you really want those F1.2 lenses.

I do want that 1.2 quite badly, and I can take old one and stick it on Sony with the adapter. New one is totally out of reach. I may alternatively settle for Sigma ART or go to 105mm f/1.4 or even Canon 135mm f/2L which is dirt cheap used now and well worth retaining.
Nikon does not offer a clear upgrade path for me.

 

[Cagey75]

I am not defending anything. I have said my bit and I don't think I can be much clearer. You either get my point or you don't.

I am not suggesting people dump their EF glass tonight and walkout of their nearest camera shop tomorrow morning will just RF glass. That's clearly not pragmatic or realistic. At the same time if you think you'll enjoy adapting lenses for the rest of your life, then you are kidding yourself also.

RF lenses (the ones that exist) IMO does already provide signification advantages:
RF 50mm f1.2 is undoubtedly better than EF counter part which always got mixed reviews
RF 35mm f1.8 is smaller and more capable than EF 35mm f2 + adpater
RF 24-105mm is smaller than EF 24-105mm+adapter (I cannot comment on optics)
RF 28-70 f2 has no equivalent on EF mount (and there probably will never be such a glass for EF mount)

Again, your first line there could be used in any debate on here. I think I'll copy and paste it next time anyone disagrees with me [probably within the next 5 minutes then ]

You said it was silly for a Canon user to switch over to ML and expect to continue using their EF collection, right? That's what I disagree with, I'm not sure what else there is to it but that's pretty B&W to me.

 

[Cagey75]

In 5 years Canon will have a solid foundation since it is evident that they are throwing everything in their lens design and if what has been released so far and planned is anything to go by, it will be amazing. All they need is to get a decent body!

What's missing atm from the R in your opinion? genuinely curious, as I'm not sure what pros desire above and beyond what's available right now.

 

[TimHughes]

has anyone tested the rf 1.2 vs the ef 1.4? wonder how noticeable the differences at 1.2 are in practice. I find the ef 1.2 focus too slow for events.

 

[nandbytes]

I do want that 1.2 quite badly, and I can take old one and stick it on Sony with the adapter. New one is totally out of reach. I may alternatively settle for Sigma ART or go to 105mm f/1.4 or even Canon 135mm f/2L which is dirt cheap used now and well worth retaining.
Nikon does not offer a clear upgrade path for me.

I have only ever owned manual F1.2 lenses. So no idea how adapted canon EF ones would perform.
I image the RF 85 will focus better than the old EF 85.
Nikon also have a 50mm F1.2 in their roadmap. Sony have no such lens planned.
Apparently the Sony 135GM is sharpest ever. So if such a lens is important for you that may be nice.