Canon v's nikon in the Macro world

SEPkent

SEPkent

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Jon
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Yes
Probably start a few heated discussions, or maybe they have been and gone already.
I am really keen to get some quality macro shots. Bees, flys, insects. I currently have a D90 and it's standard 18-105 lens. Bought a D200 of Grech that I am awaiting arrival of too.

My questin is really - Can I can great results with the Nikon gear available and if so what's a good route? Or, do I switch to canon and get the Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro?

Thanks:bonk:
 
you can get great results from any system using the dedicated macro lenses like the sigma 105f2.8. but nikon havent got anything like a mpe65. if it is important to you, then make the switch, if not get a macro prime lens to suit
 
:agree:
I think Canon take this round just by virtue of the mpe65.
 
SEPkent said:
Probably start a few heated discussions, or maybe they have been and gone already.
I am really keen to get some quality macro shots. Bees, flys, insects. I currently have a D90 and it's standard 18-105 lens. Bought a D200 of Grech that I am awaiting arrival of too.

My questin is really - Can I can great results with the Nikon gear available and if so what's a good route? Or, do I switch to canon and get the Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro?

Thanks:bonk:
Click to expand...


It all depends on the type of macro you want - upto 1:1 i think both systems are very capable (Even 2:1 with tubes ) but anything above that and you will need to go Canon and the Mp-e and you will also need the MT-24EX twin flash. If your serious I’d go Canon now before you get embedded into the Nikon system because a change is painfully - I know because I have just done it for this very reason Nikon D300 to Canon 50D and MP-e etc,etc.
 
Do you really need the flash kit too? I don't think I can afford that as well. Perhaps I am best to just get a quality 1:1 for now? Sigma 105 f2.8 the best choice???
 
SEPkent said:
Do you really need the flash kit too? I don't think I can afford that as well. Perhaps I am best to just get a quality 1:1 for now? Sigma 105 f2.8 the best choice???
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If your going the MP-E route you will need the flash - it has a couple of focus assist lights that really help focusing on a dull day and it helps give depth to the pictures- you may be able to get away with off camera flash but if your investing in the lens ......
 
Then again, if your high reproduction ratio macro photographs will be staged (frozen bugs, etc.) there's always bellows and reversed lenses, which will get you 10x magnification (perhaps more with other techniques.)

The MP-E 65 is a pretty cool lens though. Just depends if you need it for what you want to do or not.

There's someone on Flickr who uses a pentax system with bellows to produce amazing images, I'll see if I can remember who it is.
 
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, Nightmare. Was hoping there would be a cheaper, easier way of getting around this. D90/D200 - change for the D40 or D50?
 
I would try and get hold of a cheapish macro lens (Tamron 90mm for example) and try that. Then if you want more magnification, use tubes to get up up to 2:1 magnification. Once you go beyond that sort of magnification, it becomes increasingly hard to take the shots. Lack of light becomes a bigger issue, and the depth of field becomes annoyingly thin. For extreme magnifications you have 2 options; Jump ship and get a Canon MP-E 65 or stick with Nikon and use bellows. Don't underestimate how close you can get with a 1:1 lens and tubes (or teleconverter) though;

20080909122554_dsc_0213.jpg

That was with the Sigma 150mm f2.8 and 2X teleconverter handheld in natural light. :)
 
Well, to be honest, I don't want to change, but would like a really good macro lens. Not going to be staging images. Just taking bees and flowers and insects out and about.
 
The MP-E is in a league of it's own as an off the shelf solution but it really is only half the deal.....an MT-24EX Twin-light is pretty much essential to complete the setup.

If you stay put with Nikon and want to go significantly beyond lifesize then my advice would be to choose a lens with a shorter focal length. Adding tubes will push you forwards in magnification terms but the longer native focal length lenses will need far more extension to achieve the same result.

Bob
 
Blapto - Yes. Sorry. Canon move or no move!

Canon Bob - So you thinking of mid range macro and tubes?
 
SEPkent said:
Well, to be honest, I don't want to change, but would like a really good macro lens. Not going to be staging images. Just taking bees and flowers and insects out and about.
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TBH before commiting @ 1K on a lens & flash you may want to get a Sigma 105mm or Tamron 90mm and try to see if you get on with macro (if you get a 2nd user one you should'nt lose much on resale) - the MP-E is probably not the best macro lens to start with.
 
SEPkent said:
Blapto - Yes. Sorry. Canon move or no move!

Canon Bob - So you thinking of mid range macro and tubes?
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If you want to go beyond 1:1 then it's probably the easiest solution without changing marques.

Longer FL macro lenses (150/180mm) can be excellent tools for skittish bugs but it takes a lot of tubes to boost the magnification. Going for a 50/60mm lens is a lot more practical if you're aiming for higher magnification.....it will vary with the specific lens but you should get around 2.5-3x with a set of Kenko's. Your working distance will come down a lot and you may be back into flash territory too.

Bob
 
Bear in mind also that the MP-E 65 is only good for life size to 5x macro and will be totally useless for "close up" shots of anything.
It really is a very specialist lens. It's superb, but unless you're really into macro photography it's probably not the best lens to start off with.

Do heed the advice of previous posters.

cheers
Bill
 
Sigma 70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro Lens @ £330
Sigma EM 140 DG Macro Flash for Nikon-iTTL @ £280
Kenko Extension Tube Set DG @ £110

Or

Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro @ £740
 
SEPkent said:
Sigma 70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro Lens @ £330
Sigma EM 140 DG Macro Flash for Nikon-iTTL @ £280
Kenko Extension Tube Set DG @ £110

Or

Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro @ £740
Click to expand...

Personally i'd forget the ring flash look at the R1C1 for the Nikon and dont forget you'll need a MT-24EX for the MP-E
 
Indeed. Canon = Out. I love nikon.
Nikon = 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro - then i'll get the other bits when the money comes in.
Good plan?
 
My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that the canon MP-e is extremely specialist for staged macro shots only. I seem to remember reading that it doesn't even have focus control, you just change the magnification and then move the camera (or subject) into the pre-set focus point for that magnification.

ie this isn't a lens you can use out and about or handheld. it needs to be on focusing rails and pointed at a static, floodlit subject.

or am I wrong?

of course, in the nikon lineup, there's always the old medical nikkor's with builtin ringflash and mag rates up to 3:1, but then they're manual focus only, not been made in quite some time and the flash will be of a very old variety with no TTL. not even sure how one would control it actually...

I'd love to get hold of one though, and and if I was feeling particularly adventurous, perhaps hack an more modern flash unit sat on the hotshoe to run wires to a bulb in the ringflash, to give better flash control.

dave
 
fyonn said:
My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that the canon MP-e is extremely specialist for staged macro shots only. I seem to remember reading that it doesn't even have focus control, you just change the magnification and then move the camera (or subject) into the pre-set focus point for that magnification.

ie this isn't a lens you can use out and about or handheld. it needs to be on focusing rails and pointed at a static, floodlit subject.

or am I wrong?

of course, in the nikon lineup, there's always the old medical nikkor's with builtin ringflash and mag rates up to 3:1, but then they're manual focus only, not been made in quite some time and the flash will be of a very old variety with no TTL. not even sure how one would control it actually...

I'd love to get hold of one though, and and if I was feeling particularly adventurous, perhaps hack an more modern flash unit sat on the hotshoe to run wires to a bulb in the ringflash, to give better flash control.

dave
Click to expand...

I think you'll find most members here use the MP-E outside & handheld ... i no i do. ;)
 
SEPkent said:
Well, to be honest, I don't want to change, but would like a really good macro lens. Not going to be staging images. Just taking bees and flowers and insects out and about.
Click to expand...

Well I would stick with Nikon then and get;

Tamron 90mm
Sigma 105mm
Nikon 105mm VR
Sigma 150mm (I've got this one and love it.)
 
Thanks everyone. It's nice to know there are plenty of people willing be be helpful.
:)
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
I think you'll find most members here use the MP-E outside & handheld ... i no i do. ;)
Click to expand...

I've obviously got the wrong end of the stick then, must be talking rubbish.. wouldn't be the first time :)

dave
 
Messiah Khan said:
I would try and get hold of a cheapish macro lens (Tamron 90mm for example) and try that. Then if you want more magnification, use tubes to get up up to 2:1 magnification. Once you go beyond that sort of magnification, it becomes increasingly hard to take the shots. Lack of light becomes a bigger issue, and the depth of field becomes annoyingly thin. For extreme magnifications you have 2 options; Jump ship and get a Canon MP-E 65 or stick with Nikon and use bellows. Don't underestimate how close you can get with a 1:1 lens and tubes (or teleconverter) though;

20080909122554_dsc_0213.jpg

That was with the Sigma 150mm f2.8 and 2X teleconverter handheld in natural light. :)
Click to expand...

thats re-assuring for me . just starting out and have got a 150mm sigma but as yet no flash!:thumbs:
have you got more shots posted with that kit (with or without flash)?
 
btw
i have an old 2xTC, that was originally bought for a film slr. (a jessops model)
is this likely to work with my 150/d90 ?
cheers
 
If I remember correctly TC were never much to write home about. I know Vivitar tried to improve them by bringing out matched multipliers. Not much improvment. I have a Tamron which goes down to 1:2, with a matched multiplier it is 1:1 . The best of a bad lot.
 
I would back away from the old 2x TC and if you have the 150 then get the Sigma 2x EX convertor. It mates very well with this lens and produces some great results.
 
Hi All this is my first post here.

The MP-E 65 is a very hard lens to get on with. The depth of field is incredibly narrow at high magnification and the lens is very hard to hand hold past 3X.

Also, past 3X your viewfinder will become very dark indeed. At 4X and 5X your depth of field is millimetre thin and the front element of the lens will be very close ( an inch or so) to whatever you are photographing, light will be a real concern too, so, you will defo need the flash unit (the MT-24 is brilliant with this lens) .

As for usability....Hand holding the lens at 4X or 5X magnifications is very difficult, even more so with MT-24 attached and you will soon learn that keeping a moving subject in the viewfinder and in focus is a real challenge.

For all those reasons, the MP-E 65 is not a lens I would recommend to anyone who is just starting with macro. Having said all that, and even tough is not a lens I use often, I love mine.

Once you get to know the system and your own limitations, the lens becomes a real gem. Patience and a steady hand will reward you with spectacular images. But, as I said, the journey is not a rosy one and the learning curve is very, very hard.

Get a macro lens for the system you own and see how you get on with it.. switching systems will be costly, the MP-E 65 / MT 24 EX combo will set you back well over a grand and a decent canon body will be around the £800 mark. Take your time and think about it.. don't rush in to it.
 
I use a £35 Sigma macro lens, and I'm happy enough with the results - you can get this lens in Canon fit or Nikon fit I guess.



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​

This is with a Nikkon 105mm VR



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I don't think the system matters much really - unless you need to do more than 1:1 then the Canon MP-65 looks an amazing lens (no alternative in Nikon mount) - otherwise I don't see this as a Canon vs Nikon thing (I find these sort of questions a bit silly in all honesty!).
 
puddleduck said:
I don't think the system matters much really - unless you need to do more than 1:1 then the Canon MP-65 looks an amazing lens (no alternative in Nikon mount).
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Spot on there Andy. :)

Aside from the specialist Canon offering, excellent quality macro lenses and pictures are achievable regardless of the system used.
 
oldson said:
thats re-assuring for me . just starting out and have got a 150mm sigma but as yet no flash!:thumbs:
have you got more shots posted with that kit (with or without flash)?
Click to expand...

I don't really use flash, so don't have any examples with flash. But have plenty in handheld natural light;

20080909120057_dsc_0099-edit.jpg


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And plenty more where they came from. :) I finally dusted off this lens again the weekend just gone, as it is now bug hunting season. Managed to get some damsel flies, but have yet to proces them.
 
not another canon vs nikon thread?

we all know that kodak compacts are the best!
 
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