Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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What that article fails to point out is that whilst we wait for more renewable sources of energy to provide that electricity, the number of EV's is growing and requiring electricity produced by the coal fired power stations. So at present CO2 emissions are rising in combination with the demonizing of diesel which produce less CO2 than petrol.
 
This is the key:
As a result of the data, BNEF predicts EVs will become cleaner in the future as utilities companies ditch coal plants in favour of renewable energy sources, such as wind and solar farms.

Best part to remember is that the EV you drive today will become cleaner in the future. You don't have to buy a newer car to avoid pollution-based taxation. (perhaps to Neil's disappointment)

Because of that, no EV will be taxed for being too old. Whereas diesels from just 5 years ago (far from obsolete) will soon have to pay ULEZ to drive into the city.
 
How do EV's and battery life fair when it comes to sitting stationary but needing to keep it warm inside?

I've noticed in the mornings whilst I'm sitting outside the school with my son and the engine off freezing like idiots watching most others have their engines on whilst children walk through their clouds of predominantly diesel smoke. The whole area stinks of diesel fumes. Vauxhall and VW seem to stink the most out of the modern ones despite being EURO 6, but some of these older diesels are absolutely horrific. It's heartbreaking knowing the children are breathing all that in.
 
How do EV's and battery life fair when it comes to sitting stationary but needing to keep it warm inside?

I've noticed in the mornings whilst I'm sitting outside the school with my son and the engine off freezing like idiots watching most others have their engines on whilst children walk through their clouds of predominantly diesel smoke. The whole area stinks of diesel fumes. Vauxhall and VW seem to stink the most out of the modern ones despite being EURO 6, but some of these older diesels are absolutely horrific. It's heartbreaking knowing the children are breathing all that in.

Diesel Drivers don't give a monkeys chuff matey, if they did they would realise and change, oddly enough a lot of them have young children themselves so I guess its a bit like having children and smoking, they don't give that up either, on to a loser mate.
 
How do EV's and battery life fair when it comes to sitting stationary but needing to keep it warm inside?

I've noticed in the mornings whilst I'm sitting outside the school with my son and the engine off freezing like idiots watching most others have their engines on whilst children walk through their clouds of predominantly diesel smoke. The whole area stinks of diesel fumes. Vauxhall and VW seem to stink the most out of the modern ones despite being EURO 6, but some of these older diesels are absolutely horrific. It's heartbreaking knowing the children are breathing all that in.
Good question. I can't give a simple answer because it depends on so many variables: all cars are different, whether if has heat pump, the temperature outside, battery size, battery temperature, etc.

But I can tell you my Leaf (which has heat pump) uses ~0.3kW of power to keep the cabin warm, 1.5kW to 2kW to warm up the cabin initially (I suspect using some sort of resistive heater on top of heat pump). Maximum climate control can draw is 3kW according to the consumption readout.

Considering it takes 15-20kW to keep constant 60mph. Being stationary or moving slowly is very easy on the battery, it'll last a while.

Remember the thing with EV is that you only spend energy on things you need.
 
This is the key:


Best part to remember is that the EV you drive today will become cleaner in the future. You don't have to buy a newer car to avoid pollution-based taxation. (perhaps to Neil's disappointment)

Because of that, no EV will be taxed for being too old. Whereas diesels from just 5 years ago (far from obsolete) will soon have to pay ULEZ to drive into the city.
And when the city is congested with Ev's, what do you think will happen then?
 
People will be able to breathe more easily that now when they have to breathe a rather toxic mixture.
 
Good question. I can't give a simple answer because it depends on so many variables: all cars are different, whether if has heat pump, the temperature outside, battery size, battery temperature, etc.

But I can tell you my Leaf (which has heat pump) uses ~0.3kW of power to keep the cabin warm, 1.5kW to 2kW to warm up the cabin initially (I suspect using some sort of resistive heater on top of heat pump). Maximum climate control can draw is 3kW according to the consumption readout.

Considering it takes 15-20kW to keep constant 60mph. Being stationary or moving slowly is very easy on the battery, it'll last a while.

Remember the thing with EV is that you only spend energy on things you need.

Thanks. That last sentence is actually a good point. I suppose in the future if things like lamp posts are all turned into charging stations etc then everyone can simply plug-in whilst they wait and keep the heaters burning! lol


The other thing which I currently don't get is that my previous car was a BMW EURO 6 (no ad-blue - fancy exhaust/DPF I believe) and it didn't really smell all that bad at the tailpipe. Then there was the odd brand new diesel car (5 series in particular I think) I'd walk past in the morning and it didn't smell at bad at all whilst it was parked up and running. Then I can walk past a brand new VW or Vauxhall and it stinks! ???

My current car which is a EURO 4 petrol only has a slight smell, similar to my previous diesel BMW. I keep it very well maintained, far beyond official requirements. So which is polluting more, my EURO 4 petrol or a EURO 6 diesel?
 
Thanks. That last sentence is actually a good point. I suppose in the future if things like lamp posts are all turned into charging stations etc then everyone can simply plug-in whilst they wait and keep the heaters burning! lol


The other thing which I currently don't get is that my previous car was a BMW EURO 6 (no ad-blue - fancy exhaust/DPF I believe) and it didn't really smell all that bad at the tailpipe. Then there was the odd brand new diesel car (5 series in particular I think) I'd walk past in the morning and it didn't smell at bad at all whilst it was parked up and running. Then I can walk past a brand new VW or Vauxhall and it stinks! ???

My current car which is a EURO 4 petrol only has a slight smell, similar to my previous diesel BMW. I keep it very well maintained, far beyond official requirements. So which is polluting more, my EURO 4 petrol or a EURO 6 diesel?
Euro 4 petrol shouldn't smell at all and most certainly nothing like a diesel. If you are getting a bit of a petrol smell I would say the engine is overfuelling and your lambda sensor has or is failing.
Your euro6 diesel should be cleaner than the euro4 petrol as it has to conform to stricter emissions standards.
 
People will be able to breathe more easily that now when they have to breathe a rather toxic mixture.
But Ev's will likely then have to pay a congestion charge.
 
Possibly but at least they won't be polluting at the point of use while sat in any queues.
 
But Ev's will likely then have to pay a congestion charge.
That is congestion charge isn't it? To reduce congestion.

Not pollution related, because pollution related charge is called T-charge or ULEZ. Here is list of cities that are considering pollution based charges:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=51.765529054254856,0.24810334919004617&z=9

My car doesn't pollute whilst sat in a queue either.
Does it pollute when you only drive 0.5 mile and stop at first traffic light while it is 0c outside?

A lot of the school run cars were only driven a short distance before idling at the school gates. The engine emission control may not have kicked in yet. This is the problem. Emission control need to be applied to cold engines, only whenever it suits the car.


My Skoda diesel stop/start didn't kick in at all on this cold morning. Though my car had been sat on my drive for over a week, the 12v battery is over 5 years old. When I was wiring up my fan heater contraption last night with car turned on but engine not running, it flashed up low battery warning. I may need to buy one of those solar panel 12v trickle chargers..........
 
Pretty quick for a folding hard top but almost 3 times as long as it took me to drop or raise the soft top on the Mk 2.5 - I could do it either way in just under 5 seconds, including the clips. The current version seems to need you to be out of the car to raise or lower the roof...

yeah on the Mk1 you had to be out the car to get the easiest roof raise, but the think with the proper roof is the security it offers.
 
Diesel Drivers don't give a monkeys chuff matey, if they did they would realise and change, oddly enough a lot of them have young children themselves so I guess its a bit like having children and smoking, they don't give that up either, on to a loser mate.

And, the award for the biggest generalisation goes to......Mr Bump, congratulations, how does it feel to have beaten off all the stiff competition.
 
yeah on the Mk1 you had to be out the car to get the easiest roof raise, but the think with the proper roof is the security it offers.

For us, it's more the waterproofness of the hard top but the extra security is a welcome bonus.
 
Diesel Drivers don't give a monkeys chuff matey, if they did they would realise and change, oddly enough a lot of them have young children themselves so I guess its a bit like having children and smoking, they don't give that up either, on to a loser mate.

And some petrol drivers who could easily afford to go EV if they were prepared to make a few sacrifices are still happy to drive polluters instead...
 
I've noticed in the mornings whilst I'm sitting outside the school with my son and the engine off freezing like idiots watching most others have their engines on whilst children walk through their clouds of predominantly diesel smoke. The whole area stinks of diesel fumes. Vauxhall and VW seem to stink the most out of the modern ones despite being EURO 6, but some of these older diesels are absolutely horrific. It's heartbreaking knowing the children are breathing all that in.
It is now illegal to run the engine when parked (not in a traffic jam) :-
A fixed penalty notice under Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) Regulations 2002 of £20 can be issued by Parking Enforcement Officer (Traffic Warden). This can rise to £40 if it is not paid within the time specified on the penalty notice. Fixed penalty notices are dealt with via local council
 
It is now illegal to run the engine when parked (not in a traffic jam) :-
A fixed penalty notice under Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) Regulations 2002 of £20 can be issued by Parking Enforcement Officer (Traffic Warden). This can rise to £40 if it is not paid within the time specified on the penalty notice. Fixed penalty notices are dealt with via local council

I thought it was only after you'd been asked to turn the engine off but don't that it becomes an issue?
 
Euro 4 petrol shouldn't smell at all and most certainly nothing like a diesel.

Not the same actual smell as the diesel, but the same level of smell. The BMW had a slight smell but it wasn't offensive like other diesels. Perhaps the petrol smell is because I've just started it and it's rich on a cold morning. I'll need to check when it's warmed up.
 
That is congestion charge isn't it? To reduce congestion.

Not pollution related, because pollution related charge is called T-charge or ULEZ. Here is list of cities that are considering pollution based charges:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=51.765529054254856,0.24810334919004617&z=9


Does it pollute when you only drive 0.5 mile and stop at first traffic light while it is 0c outside?

A lot of the school run cars were only driven a short distance before idling at the school gates. The engine emission control may not have kicked in yet. This is the problem. Emission control need to be applied to cold engines, only whenever it suits the car.


My Skoda diesel stop/start didn't kick in at all on this cold morning. Though my car had been sat on my drive for over a week, the 12v battery is over 5 years old. When I was wiring up my fan heater contraption last night with car turned on but engine not running, it flashed up low battery warning. I may need to buy one of those solar panel 12v trickle chargers..........

My stop/start has kicked in at the end of my road, just a matter of a few hundred yards. But then I rarely need to take it out of gear for it to do so. Nearest set of traffic lights from me is about 2 miles away but not in the direction I need to go, but if I did detour that way to go to work the amount of traffic is practically non existent, I'd likely be the only car at the lights, have a green light and not have to stop anyway.
 
And some petrol drivers who could easily afford to go EV if they were prepared to make a few sacrifices are still happy to drive polluters instead...
Or he could have at least bought a petrol engined car that was cleaner than the latest diesels.
 
Depends. If he does over about 12000 miles each year, he should probably have bought a new, clean Diesel... He could save enough to afford another flight to his holiday home then!
 
Sale of combustion engine cars (including hybrids) will be prohibited in Spain from 2040. They will be banned from their roads from 2050.
 
Pensioner gets parking fine for parking in an EV charging space and has appeal turned down initially by council.
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/17411660.driver-condemns-his-ludicrous-parking-charge/

To be honest that seems reasonable at first glance, because you know as soon as he mentioned his 99 year old mum, he's parked as close as possible using his blue badge, the rest was probably a punt, he took a gamble. For the council, the error was in refusing the appeal in the first place, should have rescinded it, warned him.

he was lucky it wasn't a private parking firm
 
The wording is very clear. The parking bays are for EVs while they are charging. If there are no charge posts there then that means no car at all can park there. Not that some twonk with a diesel can.
 
The wording is very clear. The parking bays are for EVs while they are charging. If there are no charge posts there then that means no car at all can park there. Not that some twonk with a diesel can.
Or it just means that the signs are redundant until the chargers are installed and anyone can use them which would be the sensible thing.
 
Back on topic:

The nation as a whole has became much less pollution over the years, but not transportation it seems:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-climate-change-global-warming-a8763961.html
Overall the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions have fallen by 42 per cent since 1990, with a 3 per cent drop between 2016 and 2017, the most recent period for which figures are available.
However, while most sectors have seen considerable declines of up to two-thirds in the past three decades, transport pollution has fallen by just 2 per cent.
I wonder what type of vehicle will help cutting pollution right down? Not just incremental improvements forced by regulators, but a step change to almost zero emissions.


Then, there's the "grid won't cope" naysayers. Electric Nation have completed world's largest smart charging trial:
http://www.electricnation.org.uk/20...s-the-worlds-largest-ev-smart-charging-trial/
  • Smart charging can be a key solution to easing the impact of increasing numbers of EVs on the electricity network
  • Initial findings suggest that there is sufficient flexibility in EV home charging behaviours to manage charging away from peak electricity demand periods
  • Electricity Distribution Network Operators have options to influence and, if necessary, manage EV home charging behaviours

That is smart charging, which is essentially charging during off peak times, which most EV owners already do. Smart element can be considered connected charger that changes charging time/rate according to the grid. Most people who don't drive EV don't realise that the 12 hours EV is plugged in overnight will not need to charge all those time, only need 4 hours for 100 miles commute.

Recently, there's also a youtube Fully Charged episode talking to Engie about their Vehicle to Grid solutions. I personally think V2G should be the end goal for everything from EV's, energy consumption to renewable generation. Smart charging is just a stepping stone. EV's and home battery are the answer to putting more EV's on the road and using more renewables.
 
Because of that, no EV will be taxed for being too old. Whereas diesels from just 5 years ago (far from obsolete) will soon have to pay ULEZ to drive into the city.

Another "fact" you have stated based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever other than some wild guesswork. Who knows what any Govt will do regards clawing back the tax they have lost from ICE vehicles in the future. Who knows if some new evidence might come to light that is currently being "hidden" that will result in todays no pollution at the point of use EVs may be guilty of in the future. Perhaps the Govt will decide that these older Evs were responsible for massive pollution in their construction and decide to levy a tax on them.
You really do come across as some sort of EV zealout unable to listen to any reasoned argument as you are so biased in your choice of vehicle that you seem to think it's the only solution.
 
What is the point of this post? I don't quite understand how this relates to topic of discussion: cutting pollution (primarily local) from one's future car purchases.

Reads as though you are trying to stir emotional response against EV's in general.
Quite simple really. Car park space is reserved for Ev's recharging. Car park space doesn't have a charger, yet the council would rather support their traffic warden for issuing a ticket and have a vehicle driving around causing pollution instead of making use of the space.
 
If you don't ticket the those that can't read before the chargers go in then they'll carry on blocking the parking spaces once the chargers are there on the grounds that there wasn't an EV actually charging at that precise moment so they were entitled to use that space anyway. Get them used to keeping out of spaces that aren't for them as they're not an EV that is actively charging.
 
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Back on topic:

The nation as a whole has became much less pollution over the years, but not transportation it seems:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-climate-change-global-warming-a8763961.html
Greenhouse gas emissions from cars has risen over the last 4yrs because of Deiselgate. Latest diesels since 2015 are clean, Diesels since September 1st last year cleaner still. But all diesels produce far less greenhouse gases. So it is only scaremongering and lack of knowledge that has caused the increase.
 
If you don't ticket the those that can't read before the chargers go in then they'll carry on blocking the parking spaces once the chargers are there on the grounds that there wasn't an EV actually charging at that precise moment so they were entitled to use that space anyway. Get them used to keeping out of spaces that aren't for them as they're not an EV that is actively charging.
Are you a traffic warden? That has got to be one of the most illogical excuses I have come across. The warden would just as likely have issued the ticket if the vehicle was an EV as it wouldn't have been able to charge. The sensible thing to do is cover the signs until the chargers are in place and working. Until such time suspend any restrictions on who can use the space.
 
That is smart charging, which is essentially charging during off peak times, which most EV owners already do. Smart element can be considered connected charger that changes charging time/rate according to the grid. Most people who don't drive EV don't realise that the 12 hours EV is plugged in overnight will not need to charge all those time, only need 4 hours for 100 miles commute.
We seem to be going in circles.

A 30Kw leaf gives around 115 miles of range. Currently you either get a 3.7kW or 7kW charger at home, so thats a 7kw charger at 4 hours for 28Kw max charge, probably nearer 25kw, so it's safer to assume 5 hours to be sure of a full charge, which you'd want to be fully topped up because of the limited range. Obviously charge required will depend on usage.

For us our economy 7 timescale is 23:30-6:30 each night - so 7 hours (hence the 7 in economy 7), which means that realistically everyone will set their smart charger to start at 23:30, so thats the start of peak time. But your 7 hours of cheap electricity, only approx 45Kw of charge, which is around 180 miles max, so again EV is range limited for an ICE alternative, unless you pay for the more expensive time.

Then as EV takes off as they become more mainstream, those smart meters will limit charging based on local demand, because the local grid won't be able to deliver.

So again, Ev's are good for short range, second car use type journeys, which would keep pollution down in towns etc, but aren't there yet for mainstream replacement of ICE without investment in infrastructure, increased range/performance and decreased cost.
 
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