Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

[wyx087]

You are providing the pros and I am providing the cons. You obviously just don't like the fact that I can envisage cons that you or others have been unable to think of.

I attended a video conference meeting a week or so before Christmas where they said that no manufacturer is currently making a profit from EV s. and yet they are already expensive to buy. Increased sales could make them cheaper but there is no guarantee of that. They could just as easily remain the same price or become more expensive for models with more power in range.
The UK's number 1 selling car is the Fiesta, it outsells the UK number 2 selling car by something like 20,000 units a year, it is also the top selling supermini hatchback but Ford make a loss on every Fiesta as they do on every Focus sold in Europe. It's only SUV's and their commercial vehicle sales which make a profit.

I am setting the record straight for real EV ownership experience. Not pros or cons, just simple EV facts that people who have never lived with one may not realise.
I am just voicing what I've noticed on here, where you seems to shoot down most EV ideas, seems very narrow minded. A little bit of hope for the future is never a bad thing

Please explain to me the difference between Ford making a loss on every Fiesta/Focus sold in Europe, and other manufacturers not making a profit from selling EV? Sounds the same? If Ford is happy to do that, then what's the problem with selling EV's?

 

[Nod]

All I can say is that it was very nice to be able to get into a nice warm, defrosted car this morning.
Squirted mine with defroster when I got home and it still took me 5 minutes to scrape all the windows clear at 09:30. Took a few minutes of driving to warm up too.

 

[gman]

My commute is around 8 miles in each direction.
Yes we do have charging points available at work, but there is no guarantee a charger will be free when I need one. Once at work I am working, I can't just interrupt my work to move my car to a charge point, hoping there may just be one available when I get to the car park, nor can I just walk off to unplug my car and move it to another space because I have managed to charge my car, because someone else now requires a recharge. We have 80 engine dyno test cells in my department all running at a cost of over £1k each per day, we can't just disappear at our own convenience because our cars need to be plugged in or unplugged.

Ah, but the whole car park could be resurfaced with a giant inductive charger!

 

[srichards]

All I can say is that it was very nice to be able to get into a nice warm, defrosted car this morning.
Squirted mine with defroster when I got home and it still took me 5 minutes to scrape all the windows clear at 09:30. Took a few minutes of driving to warm up too.

The Zoe comes with an app as well as a button on the key fob to pre warm it. It is nice just warming up and melting my car while the neighbours are hacking ice off theirs

 

[Cobra]

TBH It must have been late 60's or maybe early '70's that this problem was solved.
I'm sure there are a few posting on here that remember seeing these running around?

 

[PaulF]

I am setting the record straight for real EV ownership experience. Not pros or cons, just simple EV facts that people who have never lived with one may not realise.
I am just voicing what I've noticed on here, where you seems to shoot down most EV ideas, seems very narrow minded. A little bit of hope for the future is never a bad thing

Those are two different things, it's one thing to relate your personal experience (good and bad) but 'most EV ideas' being posted on this thread are just that, ideas, some more fantasy than others and they do not form part of your personal experience nor should they be used to 'set the record straight'. By all means relate your personal factual experience on your EV experience to make a point but it's a little harsh to label someone narrow minded because they point out some of the issues with the fantasy ideas.
Was it you who stated something along the lines of doing a 140 mile journey in a 100 mile range EV was easily doable if started on a full charge? not sure if it was you are not to be honest but I do remember reading it and just stopped reading the rest of that particular post.

Yes, hope for the future is a good thing.

Someone above, can't remember who, mentioned an idea of pulling the handbrake and something dropping from the bottom of the car, went on to say it would sort out the people who sit with their bright LED lights on at traffic lights. Just for factual information, on some cars (mine for instance) if you sit at a standstill with the foot brake on the engine turns off, take pressure off the foot brake and the engine turns on, Auto Start/Stop on an automatic car. LED's are also more efficient than the normal car lights meaning less energy to power them, less power required from the engine and therefore less emissions. LED's are a good thing, they shine nice and bright, are more efficient to run and last longer, what's not to like, oh, and they make nice shapes with them too

 

[Nod]

The Zoe comes with an app as well as a button on the key fob to pre warm it. It is nice just warming up and melting my car while the neighbours are hacking ice off theirs

No button on the fob and the Nissan app is apparently crap so we just set the timer and plug in when we know it's likely to be frosty for an early start.

Just for factual information, on some cars (mine for instance) if you sit at a standstill with the foot brake on the engine turns off, take pressure off the foot brake and the engine turns on, Auto Start/Stop on an automatic car.

That's the main reason I haven't changed my saloon for a sportbrake. I would be far happier with the stop/start working while the handbrake's on instead. When I get a courtesy car with stop/start, I turn it off each time I use it. I'd rather use a couple of thimblefuls of extra fuel than dazzle the driver behind.

 

[nilagin]

Please explain to me the difference between Ford making a loss on every Fiesta/Focus sold in Europe, and other manufacturers not making a profit from selling EV? Sounds the same? If Ford is happy to do that, then what's the problem with selling EV's?

It's quite simple, currently car manufacturers have their ICE vehicles to make their profits for them. In 20yrs time new ICE cars will be banned meaning manufacturers won't have them to fall back on for profits. Ev's which are already expensive and making a loss will have to make a profit, if selling them in greater numbers doesn't make them cheaper to make, then the only alternative will be to make them even more expensive.

 

[nilagin]

Someone above, can't remember who, mentioned an idea of pulling the handbrake and something dropping from the bottom of the car, went on to say it would sort out the people who sit with their bright LED lights on at traffic lights. Just for factual information, on some cars (mine for instance) if you sit at a standstill with the foot brake on the engine turns off, take pressure off the foot brake and the engine turns on, Auto Start/Stop on an automatic car. LED's are also more efficient than the normal car lights meaning less energy to power them, less power required from the engine and therefore less emissions. LED's are a good thing, they shine nice and bright, are more efficient to run and last longer, what's not to like, oh, and they make nice shapes with them too

LEDs also react quicker than standard bulbs and motorists have better chance of seeing them through privacy glass windows and give better warning to any motorists not paying much attention.

 

[Mr Bump]

Wrong!

They are building new sites to build both batteries and electric motors, both sites are in England too.

Eerrm building and planning to build are the real facts you are looking for they are decades behind most companies regarding hybrid and electric. JLR are directly responsible for there own issues through there lack of interest in the environment

 

[nilagin]

Ah, but the whole car park could be resurfaced with a giant inductive charger!

That would be a lot of resurfacing, we have 11 car parks with spaces for over 3000 cars.

 

[nilagin]

TBH It must have been late 60's or maybe early '70's that this problem was solved.
I'm sure there are a few posting on here that remember seeing these running around?


View attachment 234759

We had an old Fiat 500 running around our way like that in the 70's. In the 90's someone in the area did the same with a Fiat Cinquicento (sp).

 

[nilagin]

Eerrm building and planning to build are the real facts you are looking for they are decades behind most companies regarding hybrid and electric. JLR are directly responsible for there own issues through there lack of interest in the environment

Seeing as very few car manufacturers had electric or hybrid cars 10 years ago, it would be quite an achievement to be decades behind others.
The vast majority of JLR job losses will be managerial, administration and marketing jobs, the number of production job losses will be fewer but some production will take place in other countries such as Slovakia where approximately 3000 jobs are being created.

 

[nilagin]

The Zoe comes with an app as well as a button on the key fob to pre warm it. It is nice just warming up and melting my car while the neighbours are hacking ice off theirs

With a decent frost on the windows this morning, I unlocked the car, got in and started it, front and rear heated screens switched on automatically and in the time it took to remove my Disklok and store it in the front passenger footwell, the ice on the front screen was melted, the melted ice moved over the sensor on the windscreen by the rear view mirror and the front wipers activated wiping the water away. I had selected reverse as the front wiper finished it's sweep, this activated the rear wiper, clearing the water from the frost. All done and away in less than a minute.

 

[nilagin]

It should also be noted that many current gasoline cars are direct injection. These make far more tailpipe PM than Euro 5+ diesels that have particulate filters. New direct injection gasoline cars will need to have particulate filters too.

Not all current direct injection petrol engines will be worse than a euro 5+ diesel, they wouldn't be able to pass the real world emissions they have had to conform to so that they could be sold since September 1st last year. There are some manufacturers that have yet to achieve that and dealers lots are full of pre-registered cars as a result.

 

[Nod]

And how long before the interior of the car was toasty warm?

 

[nilagin]

And how long before the interior of the car was toasty warm?

Car never feels cold inside, I only put the heater on low if the windows should start to mist up and that is mostly if the wife is in the car as well. On the rare occasions I have had to put the heater on to warm up the interior, it only takes a couple of minutes.

 

[Nod]

The inside of the car will be at ambient temperature so will be cold on a frosty morning. The heater in an ICE car will take a couple of minutes to get heat into the heater matrix, even if the system allows water to reach the heater system before the thermostat opens. With the Leaf set to preheat, the interior of the car is at the set temperature at the set departure time - no waiting to defrost or for the cabin to warm up.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

TBH It must have been late 60's or maybe early '70's that this problem was solved.
I'm sure there are a few posting on here that remember seeing these running around?


View attachment 234759

You on the wind up? Lol

 

[wyx087]

It's quite simple, currently car manufacturers have their ICE vehicles to make their profits for them. In 20yrs time new ICE cars will be banned meaning manufacturers won't have them to fall back on for profits. Ev's which are already expensive and making a loss will have to make a profit, if selling them in greater numbers doesn't make them cheaper to make, then the only alternative will be to make them even more expensive.

Yet you said Ford are selling Focus and Fiesta at a loss. Their best selling cars. So logic suggests selling products at a loss isn't as much problem as you are making out.

20 years is a looooong time. Are you saying traditional car manufacturers are happy to sell the same slightly improved ICE car as 20 years ago? (with more emission control equipment than ever)

Those are two different things, it's one thing to relate your personal experience (good and bad) but 'most EV ideas' being posted on this thread are just that, ideas, some more fantasy than others and they do not form part of your personal experience nor should they be used to 'set the record straight'. By all means relate your personal factual experience on your EV experience to make a point but it's a little harsh to label someone narrow minded because they point out some of the issues with the fantasy ideas.
Was it you who stated something along the lines of doing a 140 mile journey in a 100 mile range EV was easily doable if started on a full charge? not sure if it was you are not to be honest but I do remember reading it and just stopped reading the rest of that particular post.

People say "EV is expensive" I used my expenditures to prove the opposite, running cost is actually less.
People say "EV charging at traffic lights is a good idea." I used my experience to say how EV's behave in city environment, and point out motorway actually needs it more.

People say "EV is expensive" Neil says Ford has better finance products and EV has worse APR
People say "EV charging at traffic lights is a good idea." Neil says his commute stop at traffic lights and he doesn't use motorway

There are facts that people get wrong from reading poorly researched mass media stories, a lot of times from tabloids or "research" funded by industry with ulterior motives. It is those I am trying to set right.

But I do admit a lot of the times I hadn't made enough distinction between current facts and future fantasy/ideas.

It was probably me saying: "Doing 140 miles in a 100 miles EV is easily doable." Because I feel this is something I agree with. You'll get a charge at mid-way point ~70 miles point and have 30 miles left for plan B under current infrastructure. There's enough rapid chargers around the country to enable this to be done easily. (fact, not fantasy)
(my experience It is 150 miles to my parents (3 hours on a good day), we usually stop once near the middle at Membury services, taking 10-20min break. It's not a lot of trouble to stretch that break to 30min. I notice Membury now have 8 Tesla supercharger stalls, perfect for us. It allows me to go to work (60 miles) in a 200 miles base-spec Tesla, come home to pick up family and do the 150 miles journey comfortably with <140 miles starting range, no different to me driving an ICE car. I have done the journey once in my 80 miles range Leaf, before my home charger was installed. Needed 2 stops at the two Moto services either side of Membury along M4. The journey was done without much drama, but 1.5 hours longer than ICE car.

 

[allanm]

The vast majority of JLR job losses will be managerial, administration and marketing jobs, the number of production job losses will be fewer.....

I’ve read someone else posting similar as if that’s a good thing. They are still job losses or don’t non production jobs count?

 

[Cobra]

You on the wind up? Lol

I saw one at a car show years ago, it had a small motor in the key, and it actually unwound

 

[nilagin]

Yet you said Ford are selling Focus and Fiesta at a loss. Their best selling cars. So logic suggests selling products at a loss isn't as much problem as you are making out.

20 years is a looooong time. Are you saying traditional car manufacturers are happy to sell the same slightly improved ICE car as 20 years ago? (with more emission control equipment than ever)


People say "EV is expensive" I used my expenditures to prove the opposite, running cost is actually less.

You still don't get it. Even though all those car sales make a loss, they have to service those cars. Ford will make a profit on those service parts reducing losses. Subsequent repairs outside the warranty period will generate profit from parts.
As you and others have said Ev's require less servicing and maintenance so less parts to make a profit on. Having thousands of vehicles on the road also raises brand awareness and helps maintain or increase sales for the profit making vehicles.
Once the sale of ice vehicles is banned manufacturers will no longer have the buffer from the sales of their profit making vehicles. They will still have a small profit from servicing and repair of pre-sold ice vehicles, but now they only have Ev's to make and sell. If they can't make a profit from the increased number of sales of Ev's they will have to look at other means to make a profit and stay in business. The most obvious way is increase prices, making Ev's more expensive than they already are.

EV is expensive to buy brand new.
Your example is only cost effective because you bought 2nd hand. The high depreciation that Ev's suffer means you got the vehicle cheap in comparison to the depreciation that most ice cars suffer.
You are fortunate that you can charge at home and generate your own electricity, something that a lot of people won't be able to do. But your situation isn't as ideal and as cheap as you like as you still require a diesel vehicle to make your longer journeys, but you fail to include that expenditure in your calculations when comparing your situation against those of us with ice vehicles.

 

[nilagin]

Yet you said Ford are selling Focus and Fiesta at a loss. Their best selling cars. So logic suggests selling products at a loss isn't as much problem as you are making out.

20 years is a looooong time. Are you saying traditional car manufacturers are happy to sell the same slightly improved ICE car as 20 years ago? (with more emission control equipment than ever)


People say "EV is expensive" I used my expenditures to prove the opposite, running cost is actually less.
People say "EV charging at traffic lights is a good idea." I used my experience to say how EV's behave in city environment, and point out motorway actually needs it more.

People say "EV is expensive" Neil says Ford has better finance products and EV has worse APR
People say "EV charging at traffic lights is a good idea." Neil says his commute stop at traffic lights and he doesn't use motorway

There are facts that people get wrong from reading poorly researched mass media stories, a lot of times from tabloids or "research" funded by industry with ulterior motives. It is those I am trying to set right.

But I do admit a lot of the times I hadn't made enough distinction between current facts and future fantasy/ideas.

It was probably me saying: "Doing 140 miles in a 100 miles EV is easily doable." Because I feel this is something I agree with. You'll get a charge at mid-way point ~70 miles point and have 30 miles left for plan B under current infrastructure. There's enough rapid chargers around the country to enable this to be done easily. (fact, not fantasy)
(my experience It is 150 miles to my parents (3 hours on a good day), we usually stop once near the middle at Membury services, taking 10-20min break. It's not a lot of trouble to stretch that break to 30min. I notice Membury now have 8 Tesla supercharger stalls, perfect for us. It allows me to go to work (60 miles) in a 200 miles base-spec Tesla, come home to pick up family and do the 150 miles journey comfortably with <140 miles starting range, no different to me driving an ICE car. I have done the journey once in my 80 miles range Leaf, before my home charger was installed. Needed 2 stops at the two Moto services either side of Membury along M4. The journey was done without much drama, but 1.5 hours longer than ICE car.

But you don't have a Tesla so how does having Tesla supercharger points benefit you?

I’ve read someone else posting similar as if that’s a good thing. They are still job losses or don’t non production jobs count?

I never said It's a good thing. But Mr. Bump likes to revel in any bad press that JLR gets and likes to make out they aren't going to be in business much longer. My point is that if the majority of workers being made redundant are not involved in producing the cars, then JLR obviously don't figure on having to reduce the production schedules by much.

 

[whyone]

People say "EV is expensive" I used my expenditures to prove the opposite, running cost is actually less.

EV fuel and road tax running costs are indisputably low, but the biggest cost of owning a car in most instances is depreciation.

I know some EV's perform v. well in this regard (Tesla's) but others (Nissan Leaf) are pretty awful.

My running costs for a 2001 V6 mid-engined sports car will knock those of EV's and most ICE's into a cocked hat (i.e. much, much less)

 

[wyx087]

You still don't get it. Even though all those car sales make a loss, they have to service those cars. Ford will make a profit on those service parts reducing losses. Subsequent repairs outside the warranty period will generate profit from parts.
As you and others have said Ev's require less servicing and maintenance so less parts to make a profit on. Having thousands of vehicles on the road also raises brand awareness and helps maintain or increase sales for the profit making vehicles.
Once the sale of ice vehicles is banned manufacturers will no longer have the buffer from the sales of their profit making vehicles. They will still have a small profit from servicing and repair of pre-sold ice vehicles, but now they only have Ev's to make and sell. If they can't make a profit from the increased number of sales of Ev's they will have to look at other means to make a profit and stay in business. The most obvious way is increase prices, making Ev's more expensive than they already are.

EV is expensive to buy brand new.
Your example is only cost effective because you bought 2nd hand. The high depreciation that Ev's suffer means you got the vehicle cheap in comparison to the depreciation that most ice cars suffer.
You are fortunate that you can charge at home and generate your own electricity, something that a lot of people won't be able to do. But your situation isn't as ideal and as cheap as you like as you still require a diesel vehicle to make your longer journeys, but you fail to include that expenditure in your calculations when comparing your situation against those of us with ice vehicles.

So ...... overall, there's less money from the consumer to the manufacturers even though EV are more expensive to buy? Thanks to less servicing costs and less breakdown. Sounds good to me, as a consumer.

This is 20 years we are talking about. I'm sure economy of scale will bring the price of EV waaaaay down. Problem is that car industry is a group of followers, no one is willing to commit in one direction, making any step change really slow.
How are sub £10k Chinese EV manufacturers able to bring out cars with good battery size and with good amount of in-car gadgets? I've sat in a Chinese EV that is styled like a Smart, ~£7000 brand new, digital dials, more range than my Leaf.

EV fuel and road tax running costs are indisputably low, but the biggest cost of owning a car in most instances is depreciation.

I know some EV's perform v. well in this regard (Tesla's) but others (Nissan Leaf) are pretty awful.

My running costs for a 2001 V6 mid-engined sports car will knock those of EV's and most ICE's into a cocked hat (i.e. much, much less)

My total monthly expenditure of owning and running 2 newer cars ('63 Skoda diesel, 64 Nissan Leaf) are <20% more expensive than when I was running one older car (56 Mercedes C coupe, lower depreciation than Skoda due to age). Both are bigger cars and allows my wife to drive if she choose to. The low increase from changing to 2 cars family is impossible to achieve with two ICE cars.

It honestly is that simple, regular commutes with EV saves HUGE if your situation allows. That is a fact and I have showed my expenditure calculations before.

 

[Byker28i]

With a decent frost on the windows this morning, I unlocked the car, got in and started it, front and rear heated screens switched on automatically and in the time it took to remove my Disklok and store it in the front passenger footwell, the ice on the front screen was melted, the melted ice moved over the sensor on the windscreen by the rear view mirror and the front wipers activated wiping the water away. I had selected reverse as the front wiper finished it's sweep, this activated the rear wiper, clearing the water from the frost. All done and away in less than a minute.

I'd said it before but I run an extension lead out and put a cheap £10 fan heater in the car for 10 minutes. It warms the car, melts off all ice etc and because the car/windows are warm, doesn't refreeze as you drive along. It stays warm until the car heats up and doesn't leave a car idling on a cold morning - waste of fuel, pollution and I'm sure the low oil pressure at idle does it no good when cold.

 

[Byker28i]

My friend with the Leaf. We're back in Pembrokeshire again this week - working from home
"Come down for the weekend - have you worked out a route yet"
They couldn't find a way to make it work or them. OK rent a car then - she doesn't have photo id - old style paper driving licence and no passport so she says they wont rent her one. DOH

They are now looking at trade ins for March for an EV with longer range. I told them to get a diesel

 

[Brian G]

I was told that a diesel was only worthwhile if you did more than about 10,000 miles per year, due to the increased servicing costs.

I've avoided buying one becase I was always aware of the cr&p that came out of the exhaust.

 

[whyone]

So ...... overall, there's less money from the consumer to the manufacturers even though EV are more expensive to buy? Thanks to less servicing costs and less breakdown. Sounds good to me, as a consumer.

This is 20 years we are talking about. I'm sure economy of scale will bring the price of EV waaaaay down. Problem is that car industry is a group of followers, no one is willing to commit in one direction, making any step change really slow.
How are sub £10k Chinese EV manufacturers able to bring out cars with good battery size and with good amount of in-car gadgets? I've sat in a Chinese EV that is styled like a Smart, ~£7000 brand new, digital dials, more range than my Leaf.



My total monthly expenditure of owning and running 2 newer cars ('63 Skoda diesel, 64 Nissan Leaf) are <20% more expensive than when I was running one older car (56 Mercedes C coupe, lower depreciation than Skoda due to age). B.............

Does that total monthly expenditure include a depreciation allowance for each car?

 

[wyx087]

I'd said it before but I run an extension lead out and put a cheap £10 fan heater in the car for 10 minutes. It warms the car, melts off all ice etc and because the car/windows are warm, doesn't refreeze as you drive along. It stays warm until the car heats up and doesn't leave a car idling on a cold morning - waste of fuel, pollution and I'm sure the low oil pressure at idle does it no good when cold.

I'm doing similar when my wife wants to drive Leaf the next day. EV have ruined my expectation of creature comfort.

I've got a £10 fan heater, £10 extension lead, £5 timer, £20 window wind deflector to allow cable routing, £140 external socket install (can also used for lawn mower and charging second EV) and some DIY to firmly fix the fan heater on the centre rear armrest. Heater will heat the cabin to toasty when I get into the car. Downside is that it takes longer to unplug because I have to feed the extension cable throw the car window.

Does that total monthly expenditure include a depreciation allowance for each car?

Yes. Depreciation for all cars.

 

[Cobra]

#1stworldproblems

I've got a £10 fan heater, £10 extension lead, £5 timer, £20 window wind deflector to allow cable routing, £140 external socket install

I have one of these £1.99

Less than a mile down the road and the heater is blowing hot air all at 5am

 

[nilagin]

So ...... overall, there's less money from the consumer to the manufacturers even though EV are more expensive to buy? Thanks to less servicing costs and less breakdown. Sounds good to me, as a consumer.

This is 20 years we are talking about. I'm sure economy of scale will bring the price of EV waaaaay down. Problem is that car industry is a group of followers, no one is willing to commit in one direction, making any step change really slow.
How are sub £10k Chinese EV manufacturers able to bring out cars with good battery size and with good amount of in-car gadgets? I've sat in a Chinese EV that is styled like a Smart, ~£7000 brand new, digital dials, more range than my Leaf]

You still don't get it, buying new an EV is already overly expensive, you are paying some the money you will be saving on fuel and servicing up front. Due to the high depreciation levels a lot of Ev's suffer, whoever had your Leaf first probably never even recouped that money. It's only been good for you as a second owner. So if prices go up further, that doesn't mean it will be any better for the original purchaser as they will likely have to increase prices further to make a profit.
A Smart car style vehicle is smaller than a Leaf so weight difference will go some way to explain range difference.
The reason that Chinese Ev's are so cheap is because they are made in China where production costs are considerably lower. Add to that, there is always the suspect quality issues. There are cars built by Reowe that are banned from sale in Europe because of their poor and dangerous crash protection. Yet their British built MG's are fine. We have had loads of Chinese built Continental turbochargers failing to give full boost after a hundred hours running equivalent to 5000 miles, yet no performance drop off from the exact same specification Continental turbos built in Europe.
I am not saying all Chinese built products will be of a poorer or substandard quality, but I would certainly be wary of them.

 

[srichards]

My friend with the Leaf. We're back in Pembrokeshire again this week - working from home
"Come down for the weekend - have you worked out a route yet"
They couldn't find a way to make it work or them. OK rent a car then - she doesn't have photo id - old style paper driving licence and no passport so she says they wont rent her one. DOH

They are now looking at trade ins for March for an EV with longer range. I told them to get a diesel

Which leaf did you say they had? The leaf 24 is about 60 miles in winter. The Leaf 30 is about 90. New Leaf 40 is about 120 My zoe 40 is currently doing about 140-150 to a charge. The leaf is very inefficient. Particularly if you drive it above 60 mph.

Wales is a dead zone for charging. Literally anywhere else in the entire country including middle of the Scottish highlands has better EV charging at the moment.

 

[nilagin]

I was told that a diesel was only worthwhile if you did more than about 10,000 miles per year, due to the increased servicing costs.

I've avoided buying one becase I was always aware of the cr&p that came out of the exhaust.

If It's a euro6 diesel the amount of difference between that and petrol is minimal. Servicing costs aren't any different other than if the adblue tank may need topping up from time to time if the dpf uses that method of cleaning. If the car is used on regular long journeys where the dpf can regenerate then there shouldn't be any major extra servicing or replacement costs and the amount you save in fuel consumption will easily offset that extra expenditure.

 

[nilagin]

I'm doing similar when my wife wants to drive Leaf the next day. EV have ruined my expectation of creature comfort.

I've got a £10 fan heater, £10 extension lead, £5 timer, £20 window wind deflector to allow cable routing, £140 external socket install (can also used for lawn mower and charging second EV) and some DIY to firmly fix the fan heater on the centre rear armrest. Heater will heat the cabin to toasty when I get into the car. Downside is that it takes longer to unplug because I have to feed the extension cable throw the car window.

I don't need any of that. I get into a car that very rarely needs any heating. I invariably put the blower on just to keep the windows clear on a cold day. Even on the days when I am driving to the gym wearing shorts.
I'd have needed to walk half a mile in bitterly cold windy conditions to get to my car to need to put the heater on, certainly not after walking out my front door from a warm home, across the road and into my car. You have an even shorter walk, your car is on the drive.

 

[Byker28i]

#1stworldproblems




I have one of these £1.99
View attachment 234839
Less than a mile down the road and the heater is blowing hot air all at 5am

What car have you got again? Even the TVR's massive heat generator up front takes 3-4 miles to warm up the engine

 

[Cobra]

What car have you got again? Even the TVR's massive heat generator up front takes 3-4 miles to warm up the engine

I'm talking about the good old Citroen diesel van
My Cross fire does take a bit longer a couple of miles or so.

 

[Byker28i]

Which leaf did you say they had? The leaf 24 is about 60 miles in winter. The Leaf 30 is about 90. New Leaf 40 is about 120 My zoe 40 is currently doing about 140-150 to a charge. The leaf is very inefficient. Particularly if you drive it above 60 mph.

Wales is a dead zone for charging. Literally anywhere else in the entire country including middle of the Scottish highlands has better EV charging at the moment.

Leaf 30 I think. I found the same when testing it that it was great for local but commuting on the motorway at 70-75 just ate the battery.
I know it's an odd case, because yes, Wales is bad for charging and we've a terraced house on the main street here. Also the husband is banned from driving now due to poor health and the wife just drives local journeys to pick up the grandchildren, so the leaf is perfect for that. It's our fault apparently for having the house 160 miles away, but then it was 2.5 hours last night at 45mpg for us in the Mazda 6 2.2 diesel turbo

I do need to save up some money and evaluate what to swap the MX-5 for for the commute though... It only does 30mpg but is fun on the roundabouts at either end, and owes me nothing now as it's 8 years old and very reliable.

 

[Byker28i]

I'm doing similar when my wife wants to drive Leaf the next day. EV have ruined my expectation of creature comfort.

I've got a £10 fan heater, £10 extension lead, £5 timer, £20 window wind deflector to allow cable routing, £140 external socket install (can also used for lawn mower and charging second EV) and some DIY to firmly fix the fan heater on the centre rear armrest. Heater will heat the cabin to toasty when I get into the car. Downside is that it takes longer to unplug because I have to feed the extension cable throw the car window.


Yes. Depreciation for all cars.

Open the garage door to the car on the driveway, put the fan heater inside with the cable in the door, so the door is slightly open and the garage door is slightly open for the cable also.
An external power point with a car plugged in that I could turn on to warm up with an app from the comfort of the house would be attractive