Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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Time to set a much much earlier ban on diesel enough is enough
 

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Mr Bump said:
Another serious study on how much damage diesel car drivers do to young peoples lungs.
So much evidence yet so little interest in diesel owners making a better choice.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47777103

diesel particles are even being found in pregnant woman placentas

"We know what pollution particles look like when they're in the cells elsewhere in the body particularly in the lungs, and the black bits that we're seeing in the placenta are a very similar shape and colour to those what making us think they could be pollution particles."
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Not all diesel drivers though. Still waiting for you to tell us why you made a poor choice and bought a petrol car when you could have bought an EV.


Meanwhile Tesla have had to work on their Autopilot after the system was "hacked".
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2019/04/02/tencent_tesla_hacking/
 
I like how they bunch taxis in with cars.

They need to break that graph down into subcategories, but then if you look beyond the propaganda you don't even need to because it's already known that EURO6 isn't a problem, hence why it's compliant with the ULEZ. :cool:
 
nilagin said:
Meanwhile Tesla have had to work on their Autopilot after the system was "hacked".
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2019/04/02/tencent_tesla_hacking/
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Tesla said it fixed the ECU vulnerabilities, particularly the gamepad-related one, with a system update in 2017 and 2018. It's not clear if the automaker fully fixed the lane and wiper computer-vision flaws, as it considers them an unrealistic attack method.
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1. old news, the vehicle controlling hack vector has already been fixed
2. unrealistic road marking manipulation in an empty car park (questionable lane marking to begin with), the "hack" is totally disconnect from real world
3. which other manufacturer can automatically close vehicle core software vulnerabilities overnight across its entire fleet?

Everything has software vulnerabilities, this is internet connected software after all. The key is ability to quickly fix the bugs and the fix must be timely applied to all cars. I'd be more worried about my Leaf and other internet connected cars than a Tesla.

So thanks for showing us how innovative Tesla had been.

Tesla is ranked 4th world's most innovative company, while I can't see any other automotive company on the top 100.
https://www.forbes.com/innovative-companies/#19f62a231d65
 
wuyanxu said:
2. unrealistic road marking manipulation in an empty car park (questionable lane marking to begin with), the "hack" is totally disconnect from real world


So thanks for showing us how innovative Tesla had been.

Tesla is ranked 4th world's most innovative company, while I can't see any other automotive company on the top 100.
https://www.forbes.com/innovative-companies/#19f62a231d65
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You have obviously missed last month's reports of an owner having to keep correcting the steering on his Tesla because the lane keeping system kept trying to steer him into the crash barriers.

Hardly innovative if the systems don't work properly.
Meanwhile Tesla rated 2nd to last for automated vehicles.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.teslarati.com/tesla-self-driving-race-navigant-results-2019/amp/
 
nilagin said:
You have obviously missed last month's reports of an owner having to keep correcting the steering on his Tesla because the lane keeping system kept trying to steer him into the crash barriers.

Hardly innovative if the systems don't work properly.
Meanwhile Tesla rated 2nd to last for automated vehicles.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.teslarati.com/tesla-self-driving-race-navigant-results-2019/amp/
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Clue is in the name: "automated driving system". When have Tesla said Autopilot suite is self-driving?

Meanwhile, according to manufacturer themselves, the e-208 is cheaper to run than petrol or diesel counterparts.
SpeakEV post in e-208 Pre-Orders Open With Pricing....
 
Mr Bump said:
Time to set a much much earlier ban on diesel enough is enough
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Can't take "evidence" like that graph seriously - the originator can't even spell poison.
 
wuyanxu said:
Clue is in the name: "automated driving system". When have Tesla said Autopilot suite is self-driving?
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The clue is in the article.
"currently developing self driving systems".
 
That's Teslarati rather than Tesla.

Good to see that Ford are doing a little towards electrification. I wonder if anything will get built in RHD.
 
Nod said:
That's Teslarati rather than Tesla.

Good to see that Ford are doing a little towards electrification. I wonder if anything will get built in RHD.
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Doesn't look like the Explorer will be as it only mentions LHD for Europe. No mention of whether the Mustang inspired SUV will or not, but the rest of the vehicles will be available as RHD.
 
I have a BM, what's an indicator?
 
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Honda Jazzes are a bigger problem here - they have indicators that very rarely tell the truth. I suspect it's a problem with the SWI rather than the vehicle.
 
  • Motorbikes that do not meet Euro 3 standards (pre-2007 vehicles)
  • Petrol cars and vans that do not meet Euro 4 standards (vehicles pre-2006)
  • Diesel cars and vans that do not meet Euro 6 standards (vehicles pre-2015)
  • Buses, coaches and lorries will need to meet or exceed the Euro 6 standards or pay £100 a day
 
Motorbike - check
Petrol Car - check
Diesel Car - check
Bus/Lorry - N/A

Phew that's lucky, I can drive into London should I wish. Shame I don't wish to though.

Funny thing, when I were a wee lad I lived in London, don't recall anyone complaining then that we were all being polluted to a early grave, we even had lead pipes feeding us our drinking water, no central heating, no seat belts, coal (albeit generally "smokeless" of course) fires, smoking cigarettes indoors (polluting the lungs of the young, my living room ceiling was the same colour as the old pub ceilings, mum smoked during pregnancy, so I was very premature/low birth weight, people smoked in the workplace/pubs and drink/drive wasn't even thought about of let alone banned, no helmets for motorcyclists and we played on old bomb sites.

Funny old world, we are massively over populated and yet we continue to try and keep death at bay.
 
I like a petrol engine but they just don't produce the torque I want & need so drive a diesel, now my last diesel was meant to be as dirty as they come but that engine would run on basically anything & you could pour brand new vegetable straight into the tank (got some funny looks in supermarket carparks lol) & off you went & the emissions were better than most petrol cars. The carbon foot print from making the lithium batteries for these electric cars is worse than what most diesels will produce in their lifetime & then there is the production of the electricity which is still mainly done from burning fossil fuels so electric cars aren't that clean in the long run when you think about it
 
Sw33ty said:
I like a petrol engine but they just don't produce the torque I want & need so drive a diesel, now my last diesel was meant to be as dirty as they come but that engine would run on basically anything & you could pour brand new vegetable straight into the tank (got some funny looks in supermarket carparks lol) & off you went & the emissions were better than most petrol cars. The carbon foot print from making the lithium batteries for these electric cars is worse than what most diesels will produce in their lifetime & then there is the production of the electricity which is still mainly done from burning fossil fuels so electric cars aren't that clean in the long run when you think about it
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There are many many many(!) articles disputing that age old myth, over its lifetime, electric cars have less carbon footprint than petrol or diesel.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=...ta=&aq=f&aqi=g3g-s1g6&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&cad=h

A petrol or diesel car will emit more and more carbon as it gets driven, and its per-mile emission never changes. An electric car per-mile emission will reduce as you drive. This is two factors: as you said, majority of the carbon footprint is from production, so the more you drive the less per-mile emission. The other factor is that nation grid (EV's power source) is getting more and more cheap renewables every year.

The torque of electric cars are........ electrifying ;) A weak family Nissan Leaf feels more torque-y than most family car diesel engines, it is certainly more pleasurable to drive than VW 2.0l EA288 diesel, or Mercedes 646 engine I've had. Electric gives instant torque, no turbo lag, no gearbox logic, what you demand on the pedal is exactly what you get, the instant you demand it.
 
wuyanxu said:
Electric gives instant torque, no turbo lag, no gearbox logic, what you demand on the pedal is exactly what you get, the instant you demand it.
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Turbo lag is just a result of an oversized turbo being fitted. This can be pretty much negated by fitting a twin turbo setup where a smaller turbo is used to spin up the larger turbo. Or there is a twin scroll turbo (which my car has) whereby the turbo is fed by paired cylinders rather than fed by all four cylinders.
Most "family" EV's like a Leaf, only feel quick up to around 30mph before the acceleration starts to drop off.
 
nilagin said:
Turbo lag is just a result of an oversized turbo being fitted. This can be pretty much negated by fitting a twin turbo setup where a smaller turbo is used to spin up the larger turbo. Or there is a twin scroll turbo (which my car has) whereby the turbo is fed by paired cylinders rather than fed by all four cylinders.
Most "family" EV's like a Leaf, only feel quick up to around 30mph before the acceleration starts to drop off.
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and most family cars doesn't have such turbo.

You can get that kind of twin turbo performance up to over 50mph in today's EV's including the Leaf, and not far off a 2.0 litre diesel at motorway speed.
Then there's the instant switch between driving economically and driving for performance. Unlike ICE cars, there's no gears to change, you can be driving leisurely at 30mph and instantly start accelerate to 50mph. Normally, your car would be in 5th gear (eg. 1100rpm) for economy, and you'd have to change down into the torque band (eg from 1500rpm on most single turbo diesels) to get a good push.
 
Just a guess but my impression is that most cars are turbocharged these days, especially the smaller engine obsession which is going on.

Are there not quite a few ICE cars with CVT transmissions?
 
wuyanxu said:
and most family cars doesn't have such turbo.

You can get that kind of twin turbo performance up to over 50mph in today's EV's including the Leaf, and not far off a 2.0 litre diesel at motorway speed.
Then there's the instant switch between driving economically and driving for performance. Unlike ICE cars, there's no gears to change, you can be driving leisurely at 30mph and instantly start accelerate to 50mph. Normally, your car would be in 5th gear (eg. 1100rpm) for economy, and you'd have to change down into the torque band (eg from 1500rpm on most single turbo diesels) to get a good push.
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Clearly you haven't drive a modern 2.0 diesel with an 8 speed auto box, even in "mild" mode it drops down a gear or 2 and instantly throws you forward
 
wuyanxu said:
and most family cars doesn't have such turbo.

You can get that kind of twin turbo performance up to over 50mph in today's EV's including the Leaf, and not far off a 2.0 litre diesel at motorway speed.
Then there's the instant switch between driving economically and driving for performance. Unlike ICE cars, there's no gears to change, you can be driving leisurely at 30mph and instantly start accelerate to 50mph. Normally, your car would be in 5th gear (eg. 1100rpm) for economy, and you'd have to change down into the torque band (eg from 1500rpm on most single turbo diesels) to get a good push.
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Most family cars will have a small low friction turbo. They spin up easily and produce no noticeable lag.
 
MatBin said:
Clearly you haven't drive a modern 2.0 diesel with an 8 speed auto box, even in "mild" mode it drops down a gear or 2 and instantly throws you forward
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I own a Skoda with DSG gearbox and had owned Mercedes slushbox, similar incarnation of which went into SLR supercar. The DSG is okay, but in the above use-case, it would have needed to drop down 2 gears and that is asking for a major disappointment.

Clearly you need to try and get used to driving an EV. I'm now so used to high amount of instant torque, everything is just horribly slow, feels disconnected.

gman said:
Just a guess but my impression is that most cars are turbocharged these days, especially the smaller engine obsession which is going on.

Are there not quite a few ICE cars with CVT transmissions?
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Exactly, everything seems to be moving towards economy. Which are smaller and smaller engines with bigger and bigger turbo that lags more and more. Plus more and more economical gearing for lower engine RPM when driving, which in turn means always needing to wait for the gearbox.

You can't take a performance turned, expensive engine and talk about it like it is fitted as standard in all cars. Eg. most of the Fiesta sold won't have the special turbo.

CVT is a great idea, in theory, but unfortunately it is even more disconnected than normal gearbox. You press accelerator, nothing, you press down more as the engine spins up and only then you take off, faster than you intended.

The saviour in all these madness? Electric motors. Put a motor to help spin up turbo, put a motor in the gearbox to assist with acceleration, etc........ Wouldn't it be simpler (thus, less moving parts to wear down and go wrong) to just have the electric motors drive the wheels directly?
 
wuyanxu said:
A petrol or diesel car will emit more and more carbon as it gets driven

The torque of electric cars are........ electrifying ;) A weak family Nissan Leaf feels more torque-y than most family car diesel engines, it is certainly more pleasurable to drive than VW 2.0l EA288 diesel, or Mercedes 646 engine I've had. Electric gives instant torque, no turbo lag, no gearbox logic, what you demand on the pedal is exactly what you get, the instant you demand it.
Click to expand...

If a car is driven correctly & is serviced well it won't put out a higher level of carbon as the engine gets older & I basically have no turbo lag on my Mondeo with it's 6 speed auto box. As for torque A Nissan Leaf isn't going to match that of my Mondeo in any way as you can't tow a caravan with one as the batteries would be dead in no time & tbh it would probably struggle like mad on any sort of steep hill. You mention the performance of the Leaf well i've had people try & race me in them & the outcome was they didn't do well:LOL:
 
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