Car Servicing, Main dealers, are they on drugs

[tdodd]

Those on 7 or 5 year warranty would get there for sure.

Why? I only do about 6k miles per annum. My last car had a timing chain. Not sure about this one and won't worry whether it does for a long while yet.

 

[SFTPhotography]

I recently had my two year old VW Scirocco serviced and was told when booking it in that the DSG gearbox needed an oil change, about £300. I was also told that when it next needed doing it would be about £140.

When the vehicles in warranty they screw you because you can't go elsewhere it seems as simple as that.

Block exemption rules mean you should be able to use an indy place so long as they use OE parts and OE servicing intervals.

My 5 year old citroen costs about £200 to have a full service.
My Rolex GMT2 watch costs about £700 for a full service.

pays yer money, takes yer choice..

I sent my Seadweller to Rolex, had change from £400. It's only 7yrs old and got the 1st service done at 3.5yrs ago

 

[Gremlin]

I'd be surprised if any service plan included a cam belt change purely on the fact I doubt it would need doing during that period.

Those on 7 or 5 year warranty would get there for sure.

I was told recently that some manufacturers are now recommending cambelts changes on years rather then mileage,
as little as 4 years.
TBH it does make sense, they must deteriorate over time and a broken cambelt can take out the engine

 

[SFTPhotography]

I was told recently that some manufacturers are now recommending cambelts changes on years rather then mileage,
as little as 4 years.
TBH it does make sense, they must deteriorate over time and a broken cambelt can take out the engine

Its usually x miles and y years, which ever comes 1st. Rubber perishes, and they can perish with miles.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I was told recently that some manufacturers are now recommending cambelts changes on years rather then mileage,
as little as 4 years.
TBH it does make sense, they must deteriorate over time and a broken cambelt can take out the engine

To be fair it sounds very reasonable. Rubber perishes over 5-6 years. I had the original intercooler pipe burst open causing severe loss of power until new one got installed. Let's just imagine it was cambelt. The repair bill would look a whole lot more exciting. This is also the same reason you never accept 5-6 year old tyres as that can result in a fatal crash.

 

[nilagin]

Those on 7 or 5 year warranty would get there for sure.

Most cambelt changes are around 100k miles, the average mileage covered by motorists is between 8k and 10k miles, so for the majority of motorists no it won't.

 

[Yv]

Most cambelt changes are around 100k miles, the average mileage covered by motorists is between 8k and 10k miles, so for the majority of motorists no it won't.

Not in my experience, most are based on mileage or years, whichever is sooner, and many are around 72K on miles or 5 to 6 years, because as explained above, better to replace the rubber belt before is starts to perish.

ETA: A quick google shows Fiat, Nissan and Toyota all do this and above figures are averages for all 3 [some more/some less depending on specific engine] and I can guarantee they are so for Renault.

 

[nilagin]

I was told recently that some manufacturers are now recommending cambelts changes on years rather then mileage,
as little as 4 years.
TBH it does make sense, they must deteriorate over time and a broken cambelt can take out the engine

Mk1 Mondeo's (1993 to 1997) had cambelt changes every 8yrs or 80k miles. Mk2 Mondeo's 1998-2001 had cambelt changes every 8yrs or 100k miles. More and more modern engines have cambelts running in oil so their lives are being extended even further.

 

[Gary Coyle]

My Kia Sportage first service at the main dealer was £40 . And they did it while I waited. It took 30 minutes tops.

All they do is check the oil level

 

[Gary Coyle]

Not in my experience, most are based on mileage or years, whichever is sooner, and many are around 72K on miles or 5 to 6 years, because as explained above, better to replace the rubber belt before is starts to perish.

ETA: A quick google shows Fiat, Nissan and Toyota all do this and above figures are averages for all 3 [some more/some less depending on specific engine] and I can guarantee they are so for Renault.

New Nissan Qashqai is 160,000 miles for cambelt

 

[ecoleman]

All they do is check the oil level

I know, but I lease so have no choice. It could be worse though.

 

[andya700]

I have a customer who had a dent in the door of his merc. Because the door had to be removed from the car for the repair it had to be done by a main dealer because disconnecting the wires from the door invalidates the warranty if not done by an authorised dealer, and of course the car logs it if this ois done.

Really?
I suppose that he was spun that particular yarn by the Mercedes dealer?
There are also a couple of devices around, which have been on the market for years, which allow you to pull out dents without removing panels (doors for instance), and do not leave holes in the bodywork (so, they do not use slide hammers either).

 

[blondie606]

Sorry,sat & read this thread tonight, a few comments are really pressing my buttons....

Block Exemption......
European Block Exemption rules mean manufacturers can’t invalidate your guarantee for not using a franchised dealer – as long as the garage follows the maker’s service schedule and uses original equipment parts.


VW/AUDI group...
Your vehicle should be serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. Any damage to or defect in the vehicle caused by poor or insufficient servicing will not be remedied under the vehicle's warranty. Please ensure that you maintain sufficient records to enable our Authorised Network to confirm that the vehicle has been appropriately serviced. In any event, please ensure that the service schedule booklet in your vehicle is stamped by the business carrying out the service work.

I do happen to work for VW ,as per most manufacturers only approved parts should be used....why would anyone use non gen parts ?

When buying a used car the majority of folk still look for a main dealer history so why slate them ? I'm fully aware that not all main dealers are good , historically we've done ourselves no favours but ,thankfully, that has been changing over the last 5-10 years .

Once your vehicle is outside manufacturers warranty period ( & I can only speak for VW here)there's a thing called goodwill, you remain loyal to the network & brand & we will look after you

& please also remember that your service advisor can be your best friend...treat them with respect, be pleasant & polite & they will bend over backwards ( normally) to help you out.
Be abusive, lose your rag & treat them like crap & you'll have a battle on your hands !

I love the analogy of the wedding photographer....spot on...well said !

Feel better for getting that off my chest !

 

[Gary Coyle]

I do happen to work for VW ,as per most manufacturers only approved parts should be used....why would anyone use non gen parts ?

So you think VW use their own parts and not some generic part mass produced somewhere in the third world, just like Ford OEM air filters which set you back a pretty penny but can be bought on Ali Express for £3.20 if bought in bulk

 

[nilagin]

So you think VW use their own parts and not some generic part mass produced somewhere in the third world, just like Ford OEM air filters which set you back a pretty penny but can be bought on Ali Express for £3.20 if bought in bulk

Each car manufacturer will have a company that makes the parts for them to their specification. In all likelihood those will be the parts the cars were developed on.

 

[wack61]

The delivery note for my non genuine fiat parts said something like all parts supplied either meet or exceed OEM requirements.

when I was at the fiat dealer a local motor factor was delivering a set of discs and pads that weren't in a fiat box,Ive seen said vans in other main dealers delivering parts too, they must have accounts because no cash changed hands.

It's all designed to extract as much cash as possible, my guess is a lot of the expensive computers and tools required at a franchise dealership will be leased rather than bought.

My fiat van came with 3 years AA cover but checking the policy if it's not a simple fix they only place they tow you is the nearest fiat dealer so I won't be using that,

 

[Yves Geza]

when I was at the fiat dealer a local motor factor was delivering a set of discs and pads that weren't in a fiat box,Ive seen said vans in other main dealers delivering parts too, they must have accounts because no cash changed hands.

It's all designed to extract as much cash as possible, my guess is a lot of the expensive computers and tools required at a franchise dealership will be leased rather than bought.

My fiat van came with 3 years AA cover but checking the policy if it's not a simple fix they only place they tow you is the nearest fiat dealer so I won't be using that,

Typically offensive b****x!

There are at least half a dozen members here who earn their crust in the motor trade. Some in the franchised trade. And as @blondie606 suggested, a bit of goodwill can pay off many times over! But don't bother with that; according to @wack61; we're all rogues and vagabonds, "designed to extract as much cash as possible"!

And this from a fellow TP member who has started a courier business, so scarcely the most sophisticated or informed! After all, white van men are unpleasant and anti-social yobs; bullying bad drivers who never deliver when they say they will and often damage peoples' parcels! Etc, etc.

Don't bother to reply to that either. No need! This is the internet! We all know that's true! Get it!? You'll excuse me if I wish your new business no well at all! With your attitude I won't worry if you succeed or fail!

Here however are a few other scenarios why a Fiat dealership might be receiving non-franchised parts.

Maybe Fiat UK can't supply immediately and they've used their initiative to get a customer - who is maybe even a van driver - back on the road quickly!

Maybe they're servicing or repairing a non-franchised car and the local factor can deliver faster or maybe there's no Daewoo or Saab parts dealer left locally!

Maybe the parts are being delivered for a member of staff's "personal jobs"

Maybe someone is doing someone an under the counter favour to save money up front, whether or not it's a false economy.

No! According to wack, the only explanation is that "Obviously it's all designed to extract as much cash as possible!" To gull an unsuspecting customer into paying superior prices for inferior parts!!

By the way @wack61, I shall apologise profusely and retract all of this rant against you, if you can tell me just one thing.

Where [because you seem to know about it] can I lease my businesses expensive computers and tools for free? Otherwise they're a cost and must be paid for somehow. I can't understand why you included that sentence? It wasn't something I learnt about when, long before my Fellowship, the Institute of the Motor Industry awarded me their top Duckhams Medal and if there was free leasing, I hope they would have known and would have told me!

 

[blondie606]

So you think VW use their own parts and not some generic part mass produced somewhere in the third world, just like Ford OEM air filters which set you back a pretty penny but can be bought on Ali Express for £3.20 if bought in bulk

as per @nilagin .....most car manufacturers work in conjunction with other companies to make parts that work specifically for their cars .A certain major tyre company's exhaust system won't fit a VW correctly...unless you use plenty of sealant & some circlips......of course it'll save you about £400 + , which is fantastic news for the customer....right up to the point it fails it's MOT on emissions as it's not sealed properly !

The delivery note for my non genuine fiat parts said something like all parts supplied either meet or exceed OEM requirements.

when I was at the fiat dealer a local motor factor was delivering a set of discs and pads that weren't in a fiat box,Ive seen said vans in other main dealers delivering parts too, they must have accounts because no cash changed hands.

It's all designed to extract as much cash as possible, my guess is a lot of the expensive computers and tools required at a franchise dealership will be leased rather than bought.

My fiat van came with 3 years AA cover but checking the policy if it's not a simple fix they only place they tow you is the nearest fiat dealer so I won't be using that,

A bigger load of twaddle I've yet to hear !
I work for a main dealer...we have a local Motor Factor shop regularly deliver all manner of non VW parts as we service other makes. They also deliver VW pattern parts to us . The reason......we service a lot of older vehicles ( 10yrs+ ) & appreciate that , whilst wanting a main dealer stamp in their book those customers are also cost conscious. BUT we always get their authority before fitting & fully explain the warranty on those parts .

Computers & tools.........WRONG ( I can only speak for VW group here) All our VAS / VAG machines are purchased over a short payment period, ODIS is the same , hand tools are paid for on purchase & they ain't cheap ! BUT they are essential ....which is regularly proved by the amount of vehicles we get in from "local" garages that are unable to carry out routine tasks....they try , cock it up then send the customer to us ! Rear brake replacement on a 2009 Passat onwards is a prime example as is replacing the brake pressure sensor in the ABS unit of a Golf & even simple things like removing coil packs without breaking them !

As for the AA cover...your choice entirely...VW provide a superb road side assist which gives , home strat roadside, recover to dealer of your choice by relay if nec, overnight accom if required, onward travel &/or replacement car if required....maybe you shouldn't have bought a Fiat ?

 

[Gremlin]

Just go to Halfords, they are great value for money
The dipped headlight bulb on my car went the other day, so as I was passing
thought I'd pop in and get it replaced.
They are on buy one get one free offer so the assist said it was best to change both
and they could fit them £6.99 if it was an easy job, asked if it was both and told
no each, it would be about an hour before someone was available.
Said I would pop into my garage, oh no he said they will charge a lot more and need
to keep the car, Hmm strange that last time I went in to my garage he did it straight
away in a matter of minutes and only charged for the bulb.
Popped in today and had the new bulb fitted in no time, he even showed me how to do it
Whilst I was there another person came in and said Halfords had sent her, they had dropped the clip that holds
the bulb it was behind the bumper, he had to dismantle the bumper to get it back :banghead:
Ok so he is a friend but I do know he treats all his regular good customers the same, will drop
everything to help out and is approved to service many makes of car by the manufacturers.
The odd time I've had to go to a main dealer, especially when I drove a Volvo I really can't fault the
service & help given to me

 

[andya700]

as per @nilagin .....most car manufacturers work in conjunction with other companies to make parts that work specifically for their cars .A certain major tyre company's exhaust system won't fit a VW correctly...unless you use plenty of sealant & some circlips......of course it'll save you about £400 + , which is fantastic news for the customer....right up to the point it fails it's MOT on emissions as it's not sealed properly !



A bigger load of twaddle I've yet to hear !
I work for a main dealer...we have a local Motor Factor shop regularly deliver all manner of non VW parts as we service other makes. They also deliver VW pattern parts to us . The reason......we service a lot of older vehicles ( 10yrs+ ) & appreciate that , whilst wanting a main dealer stamp in their book those customers are also cost conscious. BUT we always get their authority before fitting & fully explain the warranty on those parts .

Computers & tools.........WRONG ( I can only speak for VW group here) All our VAS / VAG machines are purchased over a short payment period, ODIS is the same , hand tools are paid for on purchase & they ain't cheap ! BUT they are essential ....which is regularly proved by the amount of vehicles we get in from "local" garages that are unable to carry out routine tasks....they try , cock it up then send the customer to us ! Rear brake replacement on a 2009 Passat onwards is a prime example as is replacing the brake pressure sensor in the ABS unit of a Golf & even simple things like removing coil packs without breaking them !

As for the AA cover...your choice entirely...VW provide a superb road side assist which gives , home strat roadside, recover to dealer of your choice by relay if nec, overnight accom if required, onward travel &/or replacement car if required....maybe you shouldn't have bought a Fiat ?

Bearing all that in mind, notwithstanding that you are doing your best to defend the cost of parts and servicing from amindealers, could you please tell me who manufactures brake pads and discs, oil, air, fuel and pollen filters for VAG. Do VAG manufacture them, or does someone else manufacture them and put a VAG reference on them.
When you do an oil change on a two year old diesel Passat, does it have VAG oil, or maybe Shell Helix Ultra or maybe Valvoline, which the customer can get for a decent price from a motor factor, instead of being taking to the cleaners by the main "stealer"?

 

[nilagin]

Bearing all that in mind, notwithstanding that you are doing your best to defend the cost of parts and servicing from amindealers, could you please tell me who manufactures brake pads and discs, oil, air, fuel and pollen filters for VAG. Do VAG manufacture them, or does someone else manufacture them and put a VAG reference on them.
When you do an oil change on a two year old diesel Passat, does it have VAG oil, or maybe Shell Helix Ultra or maybe Valvoline, which the customer can get for a decent price from a motor factor, instead of being taking to the cleaners by the main "stealer"?

I very much doubt if any car manufacturer makes any of that stuff themselves. As I said before they will have various different companies making different components. VAG won't make their own oil, it will most likely be a well known make. Ford's Formula F Fully synthetic oil for instance is Castrol Magnatec. Go into a Ford Garage and you will see large drums of Castrol Oil. As far as oil is concerned, it's not just a case of having the 5W30 or whatever. There are different specification numbers apart from that. Get the wrong specification and you can do a lot of damage to your engine. The oil doesn't just lubricate and cool the engine it also has to maintain gaps between bearings etc.

 

[blondie606]

Bearing all that in mind, notwithstanding that you are doing your best to defend the cost of parts and servicing from amindealers, could you please tell me who manufactures brake pads and discs, oil, air, fuel and pollen filters for VAG. Do VAG manufacture them, or does someone else manufacture them and put a VAG reference on them.
When you do an oil change on a two year old diesel Passat, does it have VAG oil, or maybe Shell Helix Ultra or maybe Valvoline, which the customer can get for a decent price from a motor factor, instead of being taking to the cleaners by the main "stealer"?

Sorry , thought I'd covered that one..."most car manufacturers work in conjunction with other companies to make parts that work specifically for their cars " I don't know who VAG use for their parts BUT I do know when we fit genuine VW brake pads they don't rattle in the calipers , when we fit exhausts they don't rattle or leak gases or blow 3 days after fitting & as for oil , we use Castrol....& we supply it cheaper to our customers than they can get at local motor factors etc but more importantly we supply the correct oil grade for your car........... We make no charge for fitting headlamp bulbs ( & we fit them correctly ) .

You sir appear to be a lost cause , determined to put down & slate everything about main dealers . I wish you well in that

 

[Yv]

I very much doubt if any car manufacturer makes any of that stuff themselves. As I said before they will have various different companies making different components. VAG won't make their own oil, it will most likely be a well known make. Ford's Formula F Fully synthetic oil for instance is Castrol Magnatec. Go into a Ford Garage and you will see large drums of Castrol Oil. As far as oil is concerned, it's not just a case of having the 5W30 or whatever. There are different specification numbers apart from that. Get the wrong specification and you can do a lot of damage to your engine. The oil doesn't just lubricate and cool the engine it also has to maintain gaps between bearings etc.

Also factored in is the cost of disposal of the old oil, something you aren't getting charged for when buying that gallon at the motor factors. I know some dealers actually include an 'environmental charge' on their service invoices, some include it in the mark up, but either way, it costs eye watering sums to have oil, oil filters, old fuel, oily rags, etc etc disposed of to Environment Agency standards. I am guessing none of the people moaning take their used oil back to the motor factors and ask them to get rid? Probably not, most councils will do it for you at the recycling centres, which btw you have also paid for via your council tax. Sadly they don't do the same for those paying business rates.

Oh and to add to Lynnes comments I can also confirm the specialist Renault tools also have to be bought and you really don't want to know at what kind of costs. Just as an example that many here might have an understanding of, given we all use computers and the internet, a few years ago it cost £1000 to have a wifi router put in for the diagnostics machine to talk directly to France. Must have been pretty special at that price right? Wrong, bog standard Cisco unit added to existing network and a man to fit/set up, took him about an hour. Were dealers allowed to buy same system from somewhere else? Nope. That isn't a one off either, those are he kind of silly prices they are subject too repeatedly. Your independent garage can choose what to invest in and where to invest and make an informed decision on whether such an investment is worthwhile to their business - it's a rare day in paradise when a dealer gets that choice.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Also factored in is the cost of disposal of the old oil, something you aren't getting charged for when buying that gallon at the motor factors. I know some dealers actually include an 'environmental charge' on their service invoices, some include it in the mark up, but either way, it costs eye watering sums to have oil, oil filters, old fuel, oily rags, etc etc disposed of to Environment Agency standards. I am guessing none of the people moaning take their used oil back to the motor factors and ask them to get rid? Probably not, most councils will do it for you at the recycling centres, which btw you have also paid for via your council tax. Sadly they don't do the same for those paying business rates.

Oh and to add to Lynnes comments I can also confirm the specialist Renault tools also have to be bought and you really don't want to know at what kind of costs. Just as an example that many here might have an understanding of, given we all use computers and the internet, a few years ago it cost £1000 to have a wifi router put in for the diagnostics machine to talk directly to France. Must have been pretty special at that price right? Wrong, bog standard Cisco unit added to existing network and a man to fit/set up, took him about an hour. Were dealers allowed to buy same system from somewhere else? Nope. That isn't a one off either, those are he kind of silly prices they are subject too repeatedly. Your independent garage can choose what to invest in and where to invest and make an informed decision on whether such an investment is worthwhile to their business - it's a rare day in paradise when a dealer gets that choice.

Diagnostic tools are f*****g expensive for little other reason other than preventing folk buying them and charging an arm and a leg to the garages. EU tried to do something about it, but we only got the half-useless OBD II. But have a look at scientific instruments and you will see a whole new rip off world in front of your eyes. A simple water heater with thermostat and BUCHI logo will set you back £600 + VAT. And they will put the most unusual screws to stop you repairing it.

 

[Yv]

Diagnostic tools are f*****g expensive for little other reason other than preventing folk buying them and charging an arm and a leg to the garages. EU tried to do something about it, but we only got the half-useless OBD II. But have a look at scientific instruments and you will see a whole new rip off world in front of your eyes. A simple water heater with thermostat and BUCHI logo will set you back £600 + VAT. And they will put the most unusual screws to stop you repairing it.

I would struggle to argue with you on that, as you know, been there and done it. I can imagine the scientific instruments sector being as bad if not worse.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I would struggle to argue with you on that, as you know, been there and done it. I can imagine the scientific instruments sector being as bad if not worse.

It's out of control because you pay for them out of government grant or on pharma credit card. They can effectively ask anything they want. Another great one is when 100g of something costs almost the same as 1g, and sometimes the price is the wrong way round!

 

[andya700]

Sorry , thought I'd covered that one..."most car manufacturers work in conjunction with other companies to make parts that work specifically for their cars " I don't know who VAG use for their parts BUT I do know when we fit genuine VW brake pads they don't rattle in the calipers , when we fit exhausts they don't rattle or leak gases or blow 3 days after fitting & as for oil , we use Castrol....& we supply it cheaper to our customers than they can get at local motor factors etc but more importantly we supply the correct oil grade for your car........... We make no charge for fitting headlamp bulbs ( & we fit them correctly ) .

You sir appear to be a lost cause , determined to put down & slate everything about main dealers . I wish you well in that

Thanks, I have done quite well out of it over the years.
I have more than half a brain, so am able to make my own decisions based on fact, intuition and knowledge.
The brake pads - well if you magnified them , then they float - suggesting that they may rattle a bit - not a problem - I would prefer that they rattle a bit than seize up.
I doubt that independent exhaust parts leak after 3 days - they have not ever done that on my cars.
As for Castrol, I will never use them again, when they started to supply oil in 4L containers, when everyone knows that all cars now require at least 4.5L and sometimes 5.5L to do an oil change.
I also fit headlamp bulbs correctly but I was told by my local VAG garage that they may need my car in for an hour to align them correctly

 

[andya700]

I very much doubt if any car manufacturer makes any of that stuff themselves. As I said before they will have various different companies making different components. VAG won't make their own oil, it will most likely be a well known make. Ford's Formula F Fully synthetic oil for instance is Castrol Magnatec. Go into a Ford Garage and you will see large drums of Castrol Oil. As far as oil is concerned, it's not just a case of having the 5W30 or whatever. There are different specification numbers apart from that. Get the wrong specification and you can do a lot of damage to your engine. The oil doesn't just lubricate and cool the engine it also has to maintain gaps between bearings etc.

I am well aware of these numbers and follow them.
You have just confirmed what I have said about parts by saying that Ford Formula F is really Castrol Magnatec.
I used to get my cars serviced by main dealers, and when I looked at their prices for parts/fluids it was OTT, so I took my cars to independents, or serviced them myself, and the results were better.

 

[blondie606]

Thanks, I have done quite well out of it over the years.
I have more than half a brain, so am able to make my own decisions based on fact, intuition and knowledge.
The brake pads - well if you magnified them , then they float - suggesting that they may rattle a bit - not a problem - I would prefer that they rattle a bit than seize up.
I doubt that independent exhaust parts leak after 3 days - they have not ever done that on my cars.
As for Castrol, I will never use them again, when they started to supply oil in 4L containers, when everyone knows that all cars now require at least 4.5L and sometimes 5.5L to do an oil change.
I also fit headlamp bulbs correctly but I was told by my local VAG garage that they may need my car in for an hour to align them correctly

How very strange...we supply oil in 1 litre bottles ...VW drivers don't like things that rattle......can't comment on the headlight alignment but given the hoops main dealers have to jump through it doesn't surprise me , our hour would include a visual inspection & report on the car as a duty of care ( free of course) plus a wash & vac ( free of course ).

I'll leave this thread now as I'm off to take some photographs & I'll leave you to service your cars .
Regards

 

[nilagin]

I am well aware of these numbers and follow them.
You have just confirmed what I have said about parts by saying that Ford Formula F is really Castrol Magnatec.
I used to get my cars serviced by main dealers, and when I looked at their prices for parts/fluids it was OTT, so I took my cars to independents, or serviced them myself, and the results were better.

How much testing and development do you think pattern parts will recieve to make sure they are suitable for purpose. Very little in comparison to the oem parts. We have companies working alongside us developing their parts as we develop and test the engines. Even without my employee discount, I am fairly sure 5liters of Ford's branded oil is cheaper than 4litres of Castrol.

 

[Gary Coyle]

How very strange...we supply oil in 1 litre bottles ...VW drivers don't like things that rattle......can't comment on the headlight alignment but given the hoops main dealers have to jump through it doesn't surprise me , our hour would include a visual inspection & report on the car as a duty of care ( free of course) plus a wash & vac ( free of course ).

I'll leave this thread now as I'm off to take some photographs & I'll leave you to service your cars .
Regards

Seriously, free, seriously, with labour rates at anything up to £120 per hour its hardly free now is it.

 

[blondie606]

Seriously, free, seriously, with labour rates at anything up to £120 per hour its hardly free now is it.

Yes Gary, FREE, seriously FREE ! I have no reason to lie!

 

[Gary Coyle]

Yes Gary, FREE, seriously FREE ! I have no reason to lie!

I'm seriously not calling you a liar here Lynne BUT it's just not true, no dealers give you aything for free, even the "free brochures and free cups of tea" have a cost to the end buyer. My nephew is a mechanic and MOT tester at Car Craft, he previously worked with Sanderson Ford, Evans Halshaw Vauxhall/Ford, Harrats Nissan and DM Keith who are Skoda main dealers, as a "technician" at the main dealers he was paid under £15 an hour, yet Ford charge £80-120 per hour for general repairs and give a free car wash and Vac with a service and offer free basic breakdown cover, the Car wash is done by anyone standing about doing nothing and the breakdown cover costs less than £30 a year, its 100% common knowledge that labour rates take into account the freebies on offer which in themselves cost the main dealers the princely sum of the cost of wash materials and water (probably 25p) and better use of an employees time, ie nothing. the breakdown for a car under 3 years old (at ford anyway) costs zero, its built into the price of a new car and is negotiated on a large scale with the breakdown companies who do offer them a small discount but not much as they know Ford are putting this onto the cost of a car, nothing is free, not even at the VAG, christ, the "technicians" and "reps" even get to drive your car on the pretence of a road test.

By the way, he left those main delers because he was fed up having to rush jobs through, some days his job sheets totalled 14 hours labour charges yet he only works a 9 hour day, go figure.

 

[nilagin]

I'm seriously not calling you a liar here Lynne BUT it's just not true, no dealers give you aything for free, even the "free brochures and free cups of tea" have a cost to the end buyer. My nephew is a mechanic and MOT tester at Car Craft, he previously worked with Sanderson Ford, Evans Halshaw Vauxhall/Ford, Harrats Nissan and DM Keith who are Skoda main dealers, as a "technician" at the main dealers he was paid under £15 an hour, yet Ford charge £80-120 per hour for general repairs and give a free car wash and Vac with a service and offer free basic breakdown cover, the Car wash is done by anyone standing about doing nothing and the breakdown cover costs less than £30 a year, its 100% common knowledge that labour rates take into account the freebies on offer which in themselves cost the main dealers the princely sum of the cost of wash materials and water (probably 25p) and better use of an employees time, ie nothing. the breakdown for a car under 3 years old (at ford anyway) costs zero, its built into the price of a new car and is negotiated on a large scale with the breakdown companies who do offer them a small discount but not much as they know Ford are putting this onto the cost of a car, nothing is free, not even at the VAG, christ, the "technicians" and "reps" even get to drive your car on the pretence of a road test.

By the way, he left those main delers because he was fed up having to rush jobs through, some days his job sheets totalled 14 hours labour charges yet he only works a 9 hour day, go figure.

I've had work carried out for free on more than one occasion in Ford dealers. Years ago I had an old mk1 Fiesta that had very noisy steering on full lock. MOT garage that didn't do repairs advised me it would be the CV joints.
1. I took it into the dealer who inspected the cv joints and found nothing wrong. They then checked the tracking found it was out, realigned it problem solved yet charged me for the realignment only.
2. Car went in for a new water pump. On picking the car up they had charged me for a new cambelt. When I explained that this had only been replaced 3 months earlier, they told me it is part of the water pump replacement because the belt gets contaminated by the antifreeze. Because they didn't advise me of this prior to the job being done, they took off the cambelt replacement from the bill.
3. Car was making a squeaking noise when cold, suspected clutch bearing. Took car into dealers, they sent a mechanic outside to listen to the noise and investigate, he went back inside, got a can of lubricating spray, sprayed a hose where it went through a plastic clip, noise gone and sent me on my way.
4. Oil change light came on car even though it had just been serviced. Took car into a different Ford dealer closer to home, they rest the oil change message free of charge.
5. Jubilee clips and missing clips and screws for the under trays replaced free of charge.

I've even had several of Ford's £99 services. Oil and filter change, plus (which I witnessed) brake pad condition and disc thickness check. Coolant level check and top up as required. All light bulbs internal and external checked, all door hinges and bonnet catch greased, Tyre tread depth and sidewalls checked for damage. Exhaust condition and hanging rubbers checked. All took over 1.5hrs.

 

[Gary Coyle]

Im assuming this was good old Henry Ford himself who done this for you, you do now that all the visual checks ie tyres, brakes, hinges, shocks, exhaust, liquid levels etc, etc is standard practive in every ford or non ford dealer country wide, again, none of this is free, its built into the cost of the service and its definatly not done as a goodwill gesture, i had a C-Max before my Kuga and as part of its service schedule (first service) i was advised to replace the front pads after the car had only covered 8,000 miles at a potential cost of £116, of course i declined and Nathan (My nephew) checked them sometime later and said they were hardly worn from new and certainally wouldnt need replacing for at least another 3 years at the current rate of wear.

Of course im being a little pedantic and argumentative and of course there is the odd half decent main dealer out there but in my almost 40 year of being on the road ive only ever come across one main dealer that was worth anything approaching the rates he charged and that was a KIA main dealers near me.

I atill find the best ones are the independants with proper mechanics and not technicians and at £40 an hour youre not paying over the odds and they still use Manufacturers reccomended parts and oils etc to keep your warranty intact, even Car Craft will use OEM parts and oils if requested and they have all the main dealer tech except for the key coding stuff.

 

[nilagin]

Yes I do realise all those checks are part of a service and they will still be charged at the normal hourly rate, take off the cost of oil and filter and I reckon you are looking at around £55 for 1.5 hrs labour charge. The £99 service also includes a years breakdown cover too. I can't vouch for other manufacturers dealerships, but part of my training for Powertrain Development was provided by the same people who train Ford Dealership Apprentices, it's not all plug in a diagnostic and it will tell them what to do as you may think, they are trained mechanics.

 

[Yves Geza]

I'm seriously not calling you a liar here Lynne BUT it's just not true, no dealers give you aything for free, even the "free brochures and free cups of tea" have a cost to the end buyer. My nephew is a mechanic and MOT tester at Car Craft, he previously worked with Sanderson Ford, Evans Halshaw Vauxhall/Ford, Harrats Nissan and DM Keith who are Skoda main dealers, as a "technician" at the main dealers he was paid under £15 an hour, yet Ford charge £80-120 per hour for general repairs and give a free car wash and Vac with a service and offer free basic breakdown cover, the Car wash is done by anyone standing about doing nothing and the breakdown cover costs less than £30 a year, its 100% common knowledge that labour rates take into account the freebies on offer which in themselves cost the main dealers the princely sum of the cost of wash materials and water (probably 25p) and better use of an employees time, ie nothing. the breakdown for a car under 3 years old (at ford anyway) costs zero, its built into the price of a new car and is negotiated on a large scale with the breakdown companies who do offer them a small discount but not much as they know Ford are putting this onto the cost of a car, nothing is free, not even at the VAG, christ, the "technicians" and "reps" even get to drive your car on the pretence of a road test.

By the way, he left those main delers because he was fed up having to rush jobs through, some days his job sheets totalled 14 hours labour charges yet he only works a 9 hour day, go figure.

"I'm seriously not calling you a liar here, Gary", BUT you are getting very close!

First, if you look around, you will see how many greedy car dealers are rushing to open dealerships! They're closing down convenience stores and dismantling blocks of flats in cities all round the country to build garages everywhere! So their greedy business model is obviously hugely successful!! Mending and maintaining cars is not something that will ever be done online via Amazon, even with a Mclaren modem to help diagnostics!

Then, as Yv and Lynne have already said, everything connected with garages; power, light, environmental disposal of waste, is hugely regulated and very expensive. cars are big lumps that take up a lot of space. It is simply not possible to have a motor business without greater overheads than almost any other industry!!

Then, you wrote a very selective, limited picture of what happens in a garage ... and then you blew it completely with your amazing suggestion that it's a perk to be allowed to drive your car on the "pretence of a road test"! Get real! Whoop de doo! Aren't the working classes unworthy! Allowed to drive a customer's car!

Was that meant to be a joke?

The reality is that being allowed to move the soiled nappies out of the way and road test someone's Ford, BMW or Skoda is no great treat! You might be surprised to learn that those mechanics who are still excited by cars actually have their own personal ones! It is many years since I met a mechanic who didn't regard it as a chore and an imposition to have to take care of a customer's car and protect it against all road risks [on the company's own paid for trade insurance, of course!] and the flashier the car, the greater the imposed responsibility!

So I agree that main dealers' freebies aren't free and I agree that as well as the 25p of water and soap [maybe more], there are the wages that have to be paid to the guy who rubs it all over the car! I agree with the calculation of that alone as roughly £10 per hour towards the £120/hr labour cost. But you said it was done by whoever was standing around doing nothing - so he's not bringing in that £120 hour is he? It's called opportunity cost!

And since your nephew is such a qualified mechanic, he presumably did his City and Guilds Parts 1 & 2 course? In which case wasn't he taught the basics about workshop loading and standard times charging? Has he forgotten it or is it that he hasn't told his uncle the truth? Let me remind you - then you can pass it on to him!

The idea of selling 14 hours labour from a man's 9 hour day probably reflects the fairest way of charging for that work! What happens is that the nilagins of this world, dismantle a shiny new Ford at the factory and calculate a "standard time" for all the different jobs. That becomes a standard labour charge and is how manufacturers pay their warranty payments and how main dealers invoice their customers. Most competent mechanics can beat standard times - with a bit of practice at least; the first time on a new model usually takes much longer - and so they can do 14 hours charged work in 9 hours. That of course assumes someone else does the moving of the cars onto the ramp and the washing and the collecting the parts and what not ... but most of all, it assumes that no rusty bolts ever stick or break and no job ever turns out to be an absolute swine on a less than newly assembled and immaculate new car. It means the dealership usually do not charge all the 9 hours it sometimes takes for something that's charged as 1.4 standard hours!

Most of all, it doesn't include the diagnostic time which often far exceeds the standard time of repair when the actual cause of the problem has been identified. Very often it's the old story of 5p for the nail and £500 for finding out where the nail is needed and being able to get it there! And unlike independent garages, it's the main dealers who cannot escape and avoid those difficult diagnostic jobs. They get sent the jobs that the £40/hr independent garages often cannot but more often do not want to do!

Now help me out, what line of work are you in? As I've said to other people before, I bet I can get an immigrant in from the far East to do your job just as well for a cup of rice a day and the threat of the lash!!

 

[andya700]

Most of all, it doesn't include the diagnostic time which often far exceeds the standard time of repair when the actual cause of the problem has been identified. Very often it's the old story of 5p for the nail and £500 for finding out where the nail is needed and being able to get it there! And unlike independent garages, it's the main dealers who cannot escape and avoid those difficult diagnostic jobs. They get sent the jobs that the £40/hr independent garages often cannot but more often do not want to do!

Now help me out, what line of work are you in? As I've said to other people before, I bet I can get an immigrant in from the far East to do your job just as well for a cup of rice a day and the threat of the lash!!

I use an ex VAG mechanic, who is an MOT tester and runs his own mobile business. He works hard and charges £50 per hour, and he knows what he is doing. If I cannot do the job, then I ask him to do it, so that means cambelt/water pump changes, some front and rear suspension work. He has diagnostic plug in kit as well, for various makes of vehicle - they are easy to get hold of - the skill is using them correctly.

 

[Gary Coyle]

"I'm seriously not calling you a liar here, Gary", BUT you are getting very close!

First, if you look around, you will see how many greedy car dealers are rushing to open dealerships! They're closing down convenience stores and dismantling blocks of flats in cities all round the country to build garages everywhere! So their greedy business model is obviously hugely successful!! Mending and maintaining cars is not something that will ever be done online via Amazon, even with a Mclaren modem to help diagnostics!

Then, as Yv and Lynne have already said, everything connected with garages; power, light, environmental disposal of waste, is hugely regulated and very expensive. cars are big lumps that take up a lot of space. It is simply not possible to have a motor business without greater overheads than almost any other industry!!

Then, you wrote a very selective, limited picture of what happens in a garage ... and then you blew it completely with your amazing suggestion that it's a perk to be allowed to drive your car on the "pretence of a road test"! Get real! Whoop de doo! Aren't the working classes unworthy! Allowed to drive a customer's car!

Was that meant to be a joke?

The reality is that being allowed to move the soiled nappies out of the way and road test someone's Ford, BMW or Skoda is no great treat! You might be surprised to learn that those mechanics who are still excited by cars actually have their own personal ones! It is many years since I met a mechanic who didn't regard it as a chore and an imposition to have to take care of a customer's car and protect it against all road risks [on the company's own paid for trade insurance, of course!] and the flashier the car, the greater the imposed responsibility!

So I agree that main dealers' freebies aren't free and I agree that as well as the 25p of water and soap [maybe more], there are the wages that have to be paid to the guy who rubs it all over the car! I agree with the calculation of that alone as roughly £10 per hour towards the £120/hr labour cost. But you said it was done by whoever was standing around doing nothing - so he's not bringing in that £120 hour is he? It's called opportunity cost!

And since your nephew is such a qualified mechanic, he presumably did his City and Guilds Parts 1 & 2 course? In which case wasn't he taught the basics about workshop loading and standard times charging? Has he forgotten it or is it that he hasn't told his uncle the truth? Let me remind you - then you can pass it on to him!

The idea of selling 14 hours labour from a man's 9 hour day probably reflects the fairest way of charging for that work! What happens is that the nilagins of this world, dismantle a shiny new Ford at the factory and calculate a "standard time" for all the different jobs. That becomes a standard labour charge and is how manufacturers pay their warranty payments and how main dealers invoice their customers. Most competent mechanics can beat standard times - with a bit of practice at least; the first time on a new model usually takes much longer - and so they can do 14 hours charged work in 9 hours. That of course assumes someone else does the moving of the cars onto the ramp and the washing and the collecting the parts and what not ... but most of all, it assumes that no rusty bolts ever stick or break and no job ever turns out to be an absolute swine on a less than newly assembled and immaculate new car. It means the dealership usually do not charge all the 9 hours it sometimes takes for something that's charged as 1.4 standard hours!

Most of all, it doesn't include the diagnostic time which often far exceeds the standard time of repair when the actual cause of the problem has been identified. Very often it's the old story of 5p for the nail and £500 for finding out where the nail is needed and being able to get it there! And unlike independent garages, it's the main dealers who cannot escape and avoid those difficult diagnostic jobs. They get sent the jobs that the £40/hr independent garages often cannot but more often do not want to do!

Now help me out, what line of work are you in? As I've said to other people before, I bet I can get an immigrant in from the far East to do your job just as well for a cup of rice a day and the threat of the lash!!

Look, the most condescending post of the month, well done, i bet you went to bed with a smile last night.

No offence taken though, we all have our opinions, its just that mine is right.

 

[nilagin]

I use an ex VAG mechanic, who is an MOT tester and runs his own mobile business. He works hard and charges £50 per hour, and he knows what he is doing. If I cannot do the job, then I ask him to do it, so that means cambelt/water pump changes, some front and rear suspension work. He has diagnostic plug in kit as well, for various makes of vehicle - they are easy to get hold of - the skill is using them correctly.

There is a difference between the diagnostic equipment you can buy off the Internet and a main dealers diagnostic equipment. The stuff your mechanic can buy is relatively basic. It's more than the ability to code keys.