Career Advice

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SportsPhotoMan

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To anyone that can help,

My name is SportsPhotoMan and I am asking anyone if I they could give me some career advice. If you don't mind, let me tell you a bit about myself. Presently I work in City London as a Junior Project Manager in mobile marketing, and for the last couple of months I have decided to finish my career in Operations and to go into the career of serious sports photography. My love of photography runs deep and goes back ever since I can remember. I am a huge sports fan and follow all sports especially Soccer, cue sports, motor sports and US Sports and love to travel which is reflected on my photography work. Right now I'm looking into taking advance photography courses and looking to get any type of photography full time work weather it being apprenticeships, trainee, junior, assistant or anything.

I cannot stress enough that this is the most important decision I have ever had to make in my life so far and all I ask is some advice, tips or direction on where to go to kick start my career in sports photography.

Thank you for taking the time to read my email and I look forward to hearing from you,

SportsPhotoMan
Personal Website: http://www.jpfcollection.com
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/theredeye10/
 
Have you thought about going freelance and selling to national newspapers? Although from what I have seen on TV those that do have a wireless connection via laptop to transmit as it happens so to speak.

At the moment jobs are so scarce I would seriously consider staying put at the moment. We are turning away anything up to 15 job applications a week for kennel assistants and some of the applications are from post grad uni students.
Realspeed
 
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Hi and welcome to TP !
Sports photography... it is one of the most over-crowded fields of photography in the country (only my opinion) and thus quite a tough market to break-into.

You watch any big soccer game and you'll see so many photographers there that you wonder who they all sell their images to (and my guess is that quite a few won't sell any). But maybe that's jumping a bit too far / and too quick..

The best bet to start I think is to look for things locally - can you find any local teams that would need a photographer, how about local papers - do they have pictures from your local football, rugby, etc teams in their articles??

Personally I would not feel comfortable in ditching a full-time job to go straight into hoping to find work as sports photographer.
In my view it would be maybe better to try to create some contacts - get few jobs (paid/un-paid) under your belt before you decided 100% that this is a right move for you.

There are guys/girls here on TP who have been doing sports togging for living for quite a while.. so look at posts in the 'Talk Sport' section and I am sure you can pick up some sound advice from people over there...
 
SportsPhotoMan said:
and looking to get any type of photography full time work weather it being apprenticeships, trainee, junior, assistant or anything.
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I presume you want the above as sports related.. thats the field you want...

Well as far as I know the only jobs that exist like that are wiht newspapers and it would be rare to find someone who only does sport (although theres one sat in my chair now) Remember most big sports happen at the weekend..The money making ones that is... what will you do monday to friday?

You would need to contact all your local papers with a good portfolio of sports images and basically ask for a job.

As others have indicated.. its not a good idea to pack your job in and go into sports photography just like that.. I suppose it can happen but theres more chance of winning the pools to be honest..
 
I'll offer my 2 pence worth.

I too am trying to make it in the world of sports photography. However I am fully aware of how competitive this market is and therefore have taken this approach.

1. keep the full time job. You'll need this to pay the bills and fund the gear. (sports photography is an expensive field to get into)

2. Use money from this to buy the best gear (fast glass) you can afford (buy second hand there are great bargains to be had.)

3. Practice.
I contacted a local semi pro team and volunteered to shoot their games for free. In return I get the practice and they can use any images on their site, but should any be offered to the press they come to me first(y)

4.Practice more :)

5. Oh did I say PRACTICE lol. I've been shooting Farsley for a year and with the help of the pro's C&C on here i've improved a hell of a lot from my early attempts at capturing peak action.

6. Once you feel you're good enough with the photography side, its good to practice wiring images with a laptop.
This is my next step. :D

Good luck with it, and there's plenty of folk here to offer sound advice (y)
 
Looking at your website, youve got along way to go if you intend on making money in Sports Photography.
Have a look on the Getty/PA site's and they gives you the kind of standard you need to be at, not only that, you need good connections and years and years of experience. Its not something you can buy or jump into, it takes years of practice.

Im nowhere near that standard either, i have realistic goals and know how to get to them, but its not easy, ive worked hard and travelled hard to get the small amount ive earned from football, and believe me you cant earn a good living unless you know what your doing!!
If your serious i would initially, learn how to use your camera properly.
Contact local teams, clubs etc
Get your face out there
And see if you get any return.
If its something you enjoy, and your results are improving, contact the papers.
 
redmonkee said:
1. keep the full time job. You'll need this to pay the bills and fund the gear. (sports photography is an expensive field to get into)

2. Use money from this to buy the best gear (fast glass) you can afford (buy second hand there are great bargains to be had.)
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...and subsequently become tarred with the brush of 'weekend warrior' and immediately make a few new enemies and not many friends :) No point in spending thousands from his wage if he decides he can't make it pay a year or two down the line.

Start at the VERY bottom, if you can't make money there then you won't make any money at the top. Flog prints to mums, dads and second cousins cats grans. Learn your trade by shooting in the difficult conditions, find the limits of your equipment.. upgrade.. and so on.

KIPAX is a shining beacon of how to become a sports photographer, and has told his story many a time if you have a search for it.
 
purpleclouds said:
...and subsequently become tarred with the brush of 'weekend warrior' and immediately make a few new enemies and not many friends :) No point in spending thousands from his wage if he decides he can't make it pay a year or two down the line.

Start at the VERY bottom, if you can't make money there then you won't make any money at the top. Flog prints to mums, dads and second cousins cats grans. Learn your trade by shooting in the difficult conditions, find the limits of your equipment.. upgrade.. and so on.

KIPAX is a shining beacon of how to become a sports photographer, and has told his story many a time if you have a search for it.
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Fair points Phil, but the important things I stressed were to keep the day job and buy the best gear he COULD AFFORD, that is different to just buying the best gear.

If he can afford a 1DMIV then so be it, but if a 500D is the limits then he needs to start with that.

Gear does not make the photographer, but as we all know better gear gives you a better chance of getting a technically better shot, whether that be better ISO performance or a 2.8 lens over f4 for example.

I agree starting at the bottom is the best way and upgrade the gear as you get better (y)
 
jamesb84 said:
But then you advocated using your earnings from 'the day job' to buy kit... That's where the weekend warrior tag comes in. If you're going to do it that way, I'd advocate only using the money earned from photography to buy photography kit. Otherwise it's a slippery slope to ruin and poverty!

Anyway, this is all a moot point as the OP hasn't been back to the thread.
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Ah I get where you guys are coming from. But if this is the correct way to approach it then what money do you buy your first camera with :thinking:

Then if with that first camera you sell prints at £5 a pop thats alot of selling needed to buy a half decent lens is it not?

All I was saying that if the OP could afford a decent body and lens out of his own pocket, regardless of whether it is savings, wages or whatever then he should go for it if he is serious about cracking sports photography.

Most gear holds value pretty well so if in a couple of years he decides its a no go he can sell up at minimal loss, and treat that cost as if he was renting the gear for that period.

Each to their own (y)
 
redmonkee said:
Ah I get where you guys are coming from. But if this is the correct way to approach it then what money do you buy your first camera with :thinking:

Then if with that first camera you sell prints at £5 a pop thats alot of selling needed to buy a half decent lens is it not?

All I was saying that if the OP could afford a decent body and lens out of his own pocket, regardless of whether it is savings, wages or whatever then he should go for it if he is serious about cracking sports photography.

Most gear holds value pretty well so if in a couple of years he decides its a no go he can sell up at minimal loss, and treat that cost as if he was renting the gear for that period.

Each to their own (y)
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My first camera was a 300D that set me back £250 if I remember correctly.. came out of my student loan.. as it was only intended as an aid for my uni work and a bit of a hobby. Every bit of camera gear purchased since has been paid for by money earned through photography. I haven't done any other type work since I left uni.

Doesn't need to be selling prints for a fiver. The entrepreneur in him could try and flog a club a days shoot for £200? £10 for 20 members.. not a lot for a load of images. They're just examples though.. I'm not going to try setting his business up for him.

That's the problem.. so many wannabes just going buying the best gear which gives them absolutely NO grounding on the business side of things and no sense of reality. Why mix with the 'big boys' just because you've got the best gear? You need to be there on merit, not wallet size.
 
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purpleclouds said:
That's the problem.. so many wannabes just going buying the best gear which gives them absolutely NO grounding on the business side of things and no sense of reality. Why mix with the 'big boys' just because you've got the best gear? You need to be there on merit, not wallet size.
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True (y)
 
If the OP has the spare cash then I see nothing wrong with buying whatever he can afford.

For example a 2nd hand 1D Mk3 and a 300/2.8 can be had for £2K.

Let's assume he has a PC at home and a copy of Photoshop Elements.

Then become a weekend warrior by starting with kids sports, rugby/football/hockey. He can easily punt himself around his local clubs where he wont in competition with anyone else.

By posting in the C&C section he will, with the help of you guys on here get better and better. He will also soon learn how hard it is to make enough to pay for his petrol.

Whilst he keeps his day job, within a year (if he challenges himself) he will know whether he has the ability to make it technically.

In the evenings during the week he can work on the business side. How much would his cost of business be. How much would he need to earn. Maybe the OP is 21 and living at home paying mum £5 for his digs, washing and packed lunch as well.

If "he has it" he can make it BUT as has been stated it's flippin hard work to make a career out of it.
 
Why is that suspect?

I have seen Mk3s go on eBay for under £1K with 60K clicks on.

Also see here for a 300/2.8 on ebay. Currently £770 with 3 days to go http://tinyurl.com/4wabv7d

This is the non IS model and would be perfect for the OP if he wanted to get good fast glass and if it's within his budget.

I have also seen non is models in shops for £1k.
 
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Where can you buy a 1D MkIII and a 300mm f2.8 for £2000?
 
Sorry Jim I just edited my post to put the link in to the 300/2.8

I'm not saying it will go for 1K though.

A few months ago Fixation had a 300/2.8 for £1k and I've seen others as well.
 
bigrob said:
If the OP has the spare cash then I see nothing wrong with buying whatever he can afford.

For example a 2nd hand 1D Mk3 and a 300/2.8 can be had for £2K.

Let's assume he has a PC at home and a copy of Photoshop Elements.

Then become a weekend warrior by starting with kids sports, rugby/football/hockey. He can easily punt himself around his local clubs where he wont in competition with anyone else.

By posting in the C&C section he will, with the help of you guys on here get better and better. He will also soon learn how hard it is to make enough to pay for his petrol.

Whilst he keeps his day job, within a year (if he challenges himself) he will know whether he has the ability to make it technically.

In the evenings during the week he can work on the business side. How much would his cost of business be. How much would he need to earn. Maybe the OP is 21 and living at home paying mum £5 for his digs, washing and packed lunch as well.

If "he has it" he can make it BUT as has been stated it's flippin hard work to make a career out of it.
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I've nothing against people using their cash how they wish.. but if they go buying £15k worth of 'prestige' gear then automatically assume they should be shooting 'prestige' Prem League etc, then you have an issue. It's happening... a lot. Too many folk there for the fun of it, without any sound ideas of where they are going with it.

I've no respect for people who buy 'success'. There are numerous folk on here though whom I have nothing but admiration for in their approach to business and making ends meet whilst doing something they love.
 
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I agree with everything you say Phil.

I wasn't advocating that he spends that kind of money even if he had it.

It is a lot easier to find £2k to buy quality second had gear which he can use for a year. Within that time he should know whether he wants to pursue a career in photography.

If not and he wants get money back on the gear he would still be able to sell it for £1700 I reckon. That would be less than £1/day he would have lost on the gear which I don't think is too bad.

He would still have his day job as well.

The MKIII and 300/2.8 (non IS) will give him ample quality for those winter games in bad light. He wouldn't need to lust after better gear.
 
admirable said:
That lens hood looks like it was painted with a dead hen!
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Eh?

What does it matter what the thing looks like as long as the optics and AF are working OK? Have you seen the state that some lenses get sold in, for fairly serious money, after being through working hands?
 
My name is SportsPhotoMan
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I may be wrong here, but I would have used my real name if I was serious. :shrug:
 
NigelPaul said:
I may be wrong here, but I would have used my real name if I was serious. :shrug:
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have a look around.. lots of serious people... my real name aint kipax :)
 
DemiLion said:
Eh?

What does it matter what the thing looks like as long as the optics and AF are working OK? Have you seen the state that some lenses get sold in, for fairly serious money, after being through working hands?
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Battered and painted by hens

p67212341-4.jpg


but still works (a bit like me really)

p624134358-4.jpg
 
I ahve a small pot of canon lens grey paint i got off ebay for if/when needed.. :)
 
Is this a new sideline Tony?
 
SportsPhotoMan said:
I cannot stress enough that this is the most important decision I have ever had to make in my life so far and all I ask is some advice, tips or direction on where to go to kick start my career in sports photography.
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Yet you havent found the time to come back or reply to us?
 
I think the OP has disappeared in to his own megapixel?
 
KIPAX said:
have a look around.. lots of serious people... my real name aint kipax :)
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My point is that, unlike you, he is looking for career advice from his peers :shrug: Just looks like a wind-up? :)
 
I struggle to take anyone going by the name of 'sportsphotoman' seriously, just sounds like a bizarre superhero
 
Well he's already established what a specialist he is:

Based in London, I specialize in all aspects of photography, from travel, landscape, portraits, family, wildlife, sports, advertising, PR, products, properties, establishments, transportation, small or big its never a problem.
Today I have gained a reputation of being a well established young freelance professional photographer selling and distributing my photographs all over the World.
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So a massed mail out is pretty much in keeping with that!
 
purpleclouds said:
I've nothing against people using their cash how they wish.. but if they go buying £15k worth of 'prestige' gear then automatically assume they should be shooting 'prestige' Prem League etc, then you have an issue. It's happening... a lot. Too many folk there for the fun of it, without any sound ideas of where they are going with it.

I've no respect for people who buy 'success'. There are numerous folk on here though whom I have nothing but admiration for in their approach to business and making ends meet whilst doing something they love.
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But its not having £15k worth of 'prestige' gear that allows you pitchside at a premier league game its having the right quota of published pictures to obtain your licence to be there.
 
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