Cat bringing in Nestlings

[DorsetDude]

Very depressing, one of the cats has now brought in 4 nestlings over a 2 week period.
Yesterdays 2 together were quite advanced and very much alive when she deposited them on the lounge floor.

Ive no idea where the nest is so cant return them so I put them in a cotton wool nest on a shed roof in a roofed birdtable thing near where the female blackbird lands. Think they'll be dead today though.

Only thing I can do is keep the cat in for weeks I suppose isnt it? Which is a pain.

Cheers for any ideas

 

[TriggerHappy]

We've always kept our cats inside at night year round as this is when they do most of their hunting. You can't really keep them in 24/7 though.

 

[neil_g]

sounds like the nest is in an easily accessible place, if not yours then someone elses cat will get at it..

 

[Nod]

Very sad but 'tis nature red in tooth and claw. Ours is a murderous little bitchfiend if she gets the chance so we try not to give her that chance! She wears a collar whenever she's allowed out with 3 bells on it and that seems to give the adults enough warning when she's on the prowl. As far as we know, there's only one nest in the garden (blackbird) and that's deep in a dense Ivy where she can't get at it (although she does watch it from the conservatory...)

Since she's quite active, we make sure we put the break-away collars on her and they seem to work - she seems to manage to lose them fairly regularly although we do get them pushed through the door from time to time and have found a couple under her favourite climbing tree. It can be a pain putting the things on her (she hides under the table until bribery tempts her out) but it's either necklace or stay in for her and she does like some freedom!

 

[POAH]

collar with bell is really the only him you can do. main reason I don't like cats is the pointless killing

 

[ronnus]

You can't really keep them in 24/7 though.

Course you can, it's a complete myth that keeping cats indoors is cruel. It just depends on which breed you go for, and how they've been raised. I'd never in a month of Sundays own a cat I knew was going to kill things needlessly.

I agree that it's probably not nice to try and convert an outdoor cat to an indoor one tho.

 

[DorsetDude]

Collar is no help in this case because the nestlings she has been bringing are taken from the nest and more or less helpless. Nidicolous even.

Ive been feeding before letting her out in the hope this will suppress any "urge" but I doubt it'll have any effect.

 

[Trev4]

Its estimated that there are around 8'000'000 cats in the UK, a conservative estimate of the number of birds killed by cats is 55'000'00.
That's in addition to the estimated 220'000'000 other creatures killed by cats. That equates to nearly 35 kills per cat per year.

If my dog killed a cat there would be an uproar, but for cats to kill that number of birds alone is apparently ok even though many species are now in decline and on the endangered list. Some owners even boast about the hunting prowess of their murderous felines.

Animals in the wild kill to live, that's nature in the raw and something we must accept as natural. Domestic cats don't need to kill to feed, they kill just because they can, its in their genes.

This is my sole reason for disliking cats intensely, and I will never understand why the cat population has been allowed to increase in the way it has.

 

[Neil B]

Bloody horrible things, take it too a rescue centre and trade it in for a dog

 

[joesmith]

Its estimated that there are around 8'000'000 cats in the UK, a conservative estimate of the number of birds killed by cats is 55'000'00.

That means that if cats killed the same number of humans as they did birds, the UK human population would be extinct after just over a year. That's crazy!

Must admit, although I knew cats were a problem to wildlife, I didn't realise the problem was so big.

 

[ronnus]

The problem is massive I agree, but we have a pet cat. Not only is she not allowed out, the breeder made us agree not to let her out, for the reasons above, and also because our breed is a bit thick, and would die quickly in traffic.

I'm ambivalent when it comes to cats and dogs, but with a disabled wife and a need to work away on occasion, it would be cruel for us to own a dog and not be able to maintain it.

As for the cat haters, shame on you! An awful lot of them are highly affectionate pets, our cat indeed behaves more like a dog than the commonly (and usually mistakenly) held belief of the aloof, aggressive mog. Just saying

 

[jon ryan]

Its estimated that there are around 8'000'000 cats in the UK, a conservative estimate of the number of birds killed by cats is 55'000'00.
That's in addition to the estimated 220'000'000 other creatures killed by cats. That equates to nearly 35 kills per cat per year.

Source?

How do these figures compare with the number of birds killed by shooting, hit by cars, by agricultural practice, land clearance for building and roads, human-caused pollution on land and sea...

How many of the kills are of vermin? How many by feral cats vs domestic cats?

What proportion of the total bird population is killed by cats?

These figures are the stuff of tabloid headlines!

 

[seashaker]

Course you can, it's a complete myth that keeping cats indoors is cruel. It just depends on which breed you go for, and how they've been raised. I'd never in a month of Sundays own a cat I knew was going to kill things needlessly.

I agree that it's probably not nice to try and convert an outdoor cat to an indoor one tho.

I do agree, I have 2 housecats they have never been let out though so they don't know any difference, I would imagine trying to keep an outside cat inside would be a proper pain though!!

 

[ronnus]

I do agree, I have 2 housecats they have never been let out though so they don't know any difference, I would imagine trying to keep an outside cat inside would be a proper pain though!!

Glad to see some support for the cats! I was getting tempted to return ours to the breeder under SOGA and ask if we could get some kind of dog instead

Seriously for any of those saying "cats kill stuff and dogs don't..." Have you ever met a terrier?? Come off it... You cannot seriously make sweeping generalisations like this about either species

 

[Trev4]

Source?

How do these figures compare with the number of birds killed by shooting, hit by cars, by agricultural practice, land clearance for building and roads, human-caused pollution on land and sea...

How many of the kills are of vermin? How many by feral cats vs domestic cats?

What proportion of the total bird population is killed by cats?

These figures are the stuff of tabloid headlines!

The quoted figures are from the RSPB:

Estimates of how many creatures are killed by cats each year vary significantly.
The most recent figures are from the Mammal Society, which estimates that the UK's cats catch up to 275 million prey items a year, of which 55 million are birds. This is the number of prey items that were known to have been caught; we don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably (in order) house sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds and starlings.

These naturally can only be estimates as explained above. I am not anti cat for the sake of it, there are responsible owners who love their cats/pets and gain a huge amount of joy from owning cats. The key word here in my opinion is 'responsible'

I cant give you figures for your other questions, no doubt some research would find the answers but I have no intention of taking the time needed to do so. I have no doubt whatsoever that all the other scenario's you mention have quite a large influence on the bird/wildlife population, and some of them are man made indeed. The thread here is about cat predation which is why I aimed my comment at cats and their owners.

Surely it cant be so difficult to keep a cat in during the hours of darkness which as I understand it, they do the majority of their hunting. And as has been mentioned, bells on their collars to prevent them stalking a prey quietly. However, that's not going to help chicks in their nests, so at this time of the year perhaps more vigilance by cat owners could be called for.

 

[ronnus]

The quoted figures are from the RSPB:

Estimates of how many creatures are killed by cats each year vary significantly.
The most recent figures are from the Mammal Society, which estimates that the UK's cats catch up to 275 million prey items a year, of which 55 million are birds. This is the number of prey items that were known to have been caught; we don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably (in order) house sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds and starlings.

These naturally can only be estimates as explained above. I am not anti cat for the sake of it, there are responsible owners who love their cats/pets and gain a huge amount of joy from owning cats. The key word here in my opinion is 'responsible'

I cant give you figures for your other questions, no doubt some research would find the answers but I have no intention of taking the time needed to do so. I have no doubt whatsoever that all the other scenario's you mention have quite a large influence on the bird/wildlife population, and some of them are man made indeed. The thread here is about cat predation which is why I aimed my comment at cats and their owners.

Surely it cant be so difficult to keep a cat in during the hours of darkness which as I understand it, they do the majority of their hunting. And as has been mentioned, bells on their collars to prevent them stalking a prey quietly. However, that's not going to help chicks in their nests, so at this time of the year perhaps more vigilance by cat owners could be called for.

Dogs kill children. It's in the papers every other month.

It's because the owners are idiots, and as you also say, the animal is not responsible, just like bird killing cats are the responsibility of their owners.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, and would never debate the figures. I think it's grim for people to allow their pets to kill wildlife, either species.

But tarring every cat and owner with the same brush is a little like tarring every Staffy with the same brush and saying they're all vicious child-killers. It's about how they're bred, socialised and raised, just like cats

 

[Trev4]

Glad to see some support for the cats! I was getting tempted to return ours to the breeder under SOGA and ask if we could get some kind of dog instead

Seriously for any of those saying "cats kill stuff and dogs don't..." Have you ever met a terrier?? Come off it... You cannot seriously make sweeping generalisations like this about either species

SOGA :rules:

I have a terrier type dog and have trained her not to chase other creatures (even cats ) Dogs can be aggressive I agree, but the responsible owner (to use that word again) can stop that with training, if not, keep the dog on a long lead when out in the countryside, which I do anyway even though she is trained.
The big difference is that cats are allowed to roam freely over the countryside, other peoples gardens, anywhere they like (digging up flower beds and leaving their mess for other people to clean up, while dog owners get fined if their pet does that and the owner doesn't clean it up, but that's another discussion). While they are roaming they can partake in their habit of hunting quite freely. Dogs on the other hand have to be under the control of their owners and are not allowed to roam freely in the same way.
Bearing this in mind, I feel it is fair to make these generalisations. There are always exceptions, both to the pets and their owners. Most dog owners that I know are sensible, but while I know several cat owners too, I don't know one that considers what their animals do once they are outside their house even though I have politely talked to them about it, they say they agree, but follow up with, its a cat, its their nature to kill!!

 

[Trev4]

Dogs kill children. It's in the papers every other month.

It's because the owners are idiots, and as you also say, the animal is not responsible, just like bird killing cats are the responsibility of their owners.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, and would never debate the figures. I think it's grim for people to allow their pets to kill wildlife, either species.

But tarring every cat and owner with the same brush is a little like tarring every Staffy with the same brush and saying they're all vicious child-killers. It's about how they're bred, socialised and raised, just like cats

I have to agree with everything you say

 

[eeyore]

Have to say I'm not a big cat fan, i find there is just not enough meat on them...

 

[ronnus]

@trev4

I agree with you 100%, and keep making the same points to cat owners. The only reasons dogs don't kill constantly is because they're kept indoors and not allowed to roam, but there's some mental block about people keeping cats indoors. I know because I had it!

I spent many a month trying to figure out if it was cruel to keep a cat permanently indoors because I assumed it was wrong. I came across similar bird-death figures as above, then started looking at breeds that are happy indoors. This process took around a year, and I challenge anyone not to come into our house and love our kitty

Anti-cat nonsense does no one any good, it's as dull minded as aforementioned anti-Staffie nonsense, which there's a lot of at the moment.

Owners, not breeds, are to blame

 

[dinners]

Conflict of interest for me.

I used to rescue cats but no longer.

I've only 2 cats now (Casper aged 3 and Paddy aged 17) fortunately only Casper takes birds but he's nowhere near as prolific as the cats I used to have. Both Casper and Paddy seem to prefer rodents (mainly voles) which doesn't seem to have the same reaction.

I've 3 dogs too and I've trained them to disturb the cats if they're hiding around my bird set ups - which have all been cat modified over the years.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As a cat owner of over 50 years I am sorry to read some of the responses here. But each to theor own.

Our cats work for their keep and keep vermin down and out of our stores and the house.

Personally I don't see the attraction of dogs. Never had one nor want one. Too much effort owning them.

Like most statistics based on projections of small scale observations I take it all with a pinch of salt. 285m prey deaths by cats.... really.

I have projected, using the prey death rate from my cats as 700,000,000 but allowing for a standard deviation of an "estimated" 6,000,000 domestic felines against 7 8 9 million lets say cats...... lets sat 550.000.000 as a corrected figure for the deaths of hunted prey.....

Oh sorry its calleed Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics........

Woof

 

[jon ryan]

The quoted figures are from the RSPB:

Estimates of how many creatures are killed by cats each year vary significantly.
The most recent figures are from the Mammal Society, which estimates that the UK's cats catch up to 275 million prey items a year, of which 55 million are birds. This is the number of prey items that were known to have been caught; we don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably (in order) house sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds and starlings.

And, by some quoting out of context worthy of a tabloid, you miss the most important part of that article. Well done! Do you write for the Mail? Are you a politician?

The part you seem to have deliberately missed out in order to try to support your attack on cats and their owners states:

No evidence

Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific evidence that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird populations UK-wide. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease, or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds.

It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season
We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population.

It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations.

Those bird species that have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.

Those paragraphs follow immediately after the one you quoted, and it seems highly unlikely that you didn't see it. I've emphasised some of the relevant bits just in case you did miss them. I guess you simply forgot to quote it.

The full article is on the RSPB site here. As the RSPB don't see cats as much of a problem, perhaps you should attack the farmers, who RSPB identify as the biggest killers of birds, rather than the cat owners? Will you be posting anything on farming websites?

 

[Marc]

How on earth can they even estimate how many birds are killed by cats?

For the record, neither of our 2 have received anything in the post or been stopped in the streeet asking them to fill in any surveys. I have told them that they are supposed to have killed 35 birds each per year and, as we have no evidence that they have killed even 1 between them, they are now going out tooled up in order to make a concerted effort to meet their quota.

 

[Julie1979]

When i had an outdoor cat it was rabbits he'd bring back. Allegedly he was seen with a mink once. My current 2 are indoors cats and quite happy.

 

[PatrickO]

Its estimated that there are around 8'000'000 cats in the UK, a conservative estimate of the number of birds killed by cats is 55'000'00.
That's in addition to the estimated 220'000'000 other creatures killed by cats. That equates to nearly 35 kills per cat per year.

If my dog killed a cat there would be an uproar, but for cats to kill that number of birds alone is apparently ok even though many species are now in decline and on the endangered list. Some owners even boast about the hunting prowess of their murderous felines.

Animals in the wild kill to live, that's nature in the raw and something we must accept as natural. Domestic cats don't need to kill to feed, they kill just because they can, its in their genes.

This is my sole reason for disliking cats intensely, and I will never understand why the cat population has been allowed to increase in the way it has.

Those figures seem incredibly high to me. We have three cats. Two of them have never caught anything to the best of my knowledge. Although one did once bring in a pigeon which had obviously been dead for a few days. The third cat is a hunter. She brings in about 5-6 creatures a year - usually mice with the occasional baby bird. The mice we can usually rescue as she tends not to harm them. She has a bell, but I think we might try keeping her in at night as well. Her favourite hobby is stalking our other two cats

 

[Nod]

Should have said in my earlier post that she gets shut in at night and if she goes out after dark, we turn on a spot lamp or 2 and watch her! Since we feed the birds (a friend of ours bought HER a bag of birdseed for Christmas!), there's usually a bit of dropped seed below the feeders and the mice do a good job of picking up the bits that the pigeons leave behind - cat can smell the mice but it's been a while since she managed to catch one! (She tends to bring them into the house alive, at which point it's a race to catch them before they escape under the furniture or she kills them. The live ones get released a mile or so away.)

Her last catch was a female Blackbird a few weeks ago but I managed to get her to drop it and release it alive. It stayed on the garage roof for a while before flying away.

She was Mum and Dad's cat before we took her on and they lived in a very rural setting. They never collared and belled her and she was a very prolific hunter - almost as good (or bad!) a hunter as the Sparrowhawk that used their bird feeder as a buffet. Several cats ago, they had one that specialised in rabbits - his record was 8 in one night. (It was suggested that they had the bunnies dealt with by a butcher for the pot but they were both country children during the war and had no taste for rabbit meat!)

 

[SpikeK6]

I had two cats only one now and she is too bloody fat and lazy to even try to catch anything let alone kill it lol.
But her brother on the other hand often brought in a rat or a vole or some other little rodent, only once did it ever bring a bird in.

Cats are hunters its in their genes like has been said whether they are in the wild or tame.
Cats will eat their prey even if they are fed in the house, as its what they do.

To the OP I doubt there is much you will be able to do about your cat bringing things home with it unless you keep it in 24/7.

 

[Nod]

One more point... If your cat's a hunter, it's important to keep up with any worming treatments. Maisie's a real PITA as far as getting tablets down her so we use the back of the neck drops (like Frontline but against worms not insects) on the vet's advice.

 

[DorsetDude]

7 days now without incident.
I suspect that she's cleared the nest of nestlings with her last 2 she brought in.
The blackbirds have possibly laid more eggs (hopefully in a different nest location), when they hatch I may start getting some brought in again. But hope not.

 

[magicaxeman]

collar with bell is really the only him you can do. main reason I don't like cats is the pointless killing

You can get an ultra sonic collar for cats that apparently works well, I think all cats should have to wear one.

Its estimated that there are around 8'000'000 cats in the UK, a conservative estimate of the number of birds killed by cats is 55'000'00.
That's in addition to the estimated 220'000'000 other creatures killed by cats. That equates to nearly 35 kills per cat per year.

If my dog killed a cat there would be an uproar, but for cats to kill that number of birds alone is apparently ok even though many species are now in decline and on the endangered list. Some owners even boast about the hunting prowess of their murderous felines.

Animals in the wild kill to live, that's nature in the raw and something we must accept as natural. Domestic cats don't need to kill to feed, they kill just because they can, its in their genes.

This is my sole reason for disliking cats intensely, and I will never understand why the cat population has been allowed to increase in the way it has.

Since my dog died and the local cat population exploded the wildlife in my garden has been decimated including protected species such as slow worms.
At least with Bill out there the cats avoided the place.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You can get an ultra sonic collar for cats that apparently works well, I think all cats should have to wear one.

I think all dogs should wear a muzzle along with many of their owners when outside their homes.

Best of luck with collars for cats. They are very adept at removing and losing them.

Dog owners eh - don't ya just love the pet ownership high ground they convince themselves they occupy!

 

[Trev4]

I think all dogs should wear a muzzle along with many of their owners when outside their homes.

Best of luck with collars for cats. They are very adept at removing and losing them.

Dog owners eh - don't ya just love the pet ownership high ground they convince themselves they occupy!

Oh dear, perhaps you could jump down off your high horse for a moment and even re read the thread. No one is on any high ground, except maybe Steve. I don't see this as a dog v cat discussion, its a cat v wildlife discussion. I will however add to your comments in a moment.

The OP quite responsibly commented about his cat bringing in nestlings, obviously this concerned him and I for one applaud his concern.

The figures quoted are from a body that has more knowledge than most of us, and yes, they do qualify their views, but the fact is that a lot of nestlings and endangered birds are being predated by cats, some of this is avoidable if only the owners were to take simple actions that could reduce the toll.

I too have seen the quantity of birds using my feeders reduce to virtually zero after my dog passed away last year and the local felines were able to use my garden as a toilet and hunting ground without fear. However, as my new puppy get older that should revert again.

Regarding dogs being useless, I have yet to see a blind guide cat, a cat that helps invalids to do their daily chores, a cat that warns their deaf owner that an alarm is sounding, a bomb detector or drug detector cat, even a cat that can alert patients of impending medical emergencies, and much more... no, maybe dogs do have a responsible place in society as well as being loyal pets rather than just an animal that relies solely on its owner for food and shelter when it feels the need.

I am not a cat hater by any means and wouldn't condone harming one, a lot of owners get great pleasure from their companionship and that's perfectly understandable, and I agree that, the same as with dogs, its the owners who are at fault when things go wrong, the difference is that dog owners are responsible under the law. I do feel its time that cats were treated with the same laws as dogs and not be allowed to roam and hunt.

Cats don't have any natural predators now that dogs have to be kept under control, so rather than muzzling the dogs and owners Steve, perhaps the law should be changed so that dogs can predate cats, which after all, is only instinct, they would only be doing what comes naturally, just the same that has been previously stated about cats.
ok ok, I know I have contradicted myself here, this last paragraph was for Steve and a few others who have said similar things, its a tongue in cheek comment and it will never happen.

Out of respect for the OP perhaps we should get back on track and continue with the original discussion

 

[akr]

I don't see this as a dog v cat discussion, its a car v wildlife discussion.

Don't bring cars into it, it will never end!

I too have seen the quantity of birds using my feeders reduce to virtually zero after my dog passed away last year and the local felines were able to use my garden as a toilet and hunting ground without fear. However, as my new puppy get older that should revert again.

I have no dog, quite a few cats in the garden (not mine), but the birds on the whole are doing well. I do have a toddler though who loves the birds, maybe that is the secret!

 

[Trev4]

Don't bring cars into it, it will never end!

Sorry, its been corrected, darn keys keep moving about on the keyboard

I have no dog, quite a few cats in the garden (not mine), but the birds on the whole are doing well. I do have a toddler though who loves the birds, maybe that is the secret!

Hmmm, there's a thought, in our case I think father time has put paid to that

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Don't bring cars into it, it will never end!

Wild cars too! Horrid thing! Leaving their mess all over.

Right serious time.....

The loss of birdlife from the UK is nothing to do with the cat population on its own but the data is projected and unscientific

Take the huge loss of Sparrows over the past 40 years. Cats???

No - a report by Natural England could not gauge the impact of Sparrowhawk or cats but, in urban town areas pointed to changes in available nesting space from development, food sources, habitat and greater use of chemicals etc.

Why would I be interested? I have worked as an Enviromental consulyant for close on 20 years and as a professional Environmental Impact Assessor I work with developers on new build, remediation of land and habitat, protection of wildlife etc.

If I seem a little flip with the anti cat lobby based on minor occurrences that get extrapolated into huge issues that seem to point to an uncontrolled explosion of cats.

The biggest danger to wildlifeis..... US (not the country)

Sparrows and worm loss has also had research programmes seeking answers. The ban on lead additives in petrol and the replacement of non lead anti knock chemicals to "lead free" petrol with said additives causing soil damage killing bird food sources (worms and grubs) is also ongoing. This goes well beyond Sparrows to include the loss of the Starling population.

Add into the mix land pollution from "persistent" chemicals, water sources drying up a few years back and, lets not missout our continental neighbours "netting" small birds who migrate to our fair shores, only to never arrive to breed....

Easier to blame cats. No need for holistics whenyou have a prime suspect who is guilty eh?

So apologies for teasing - the bigger picture is far more complex and difficult to assign and declare a culprit. Hang on we have a culprit... named above.

Still what do I know?

 

[jakeblu]

Dogs kill children. It's in the papers every other month.

Well technically thats a slight exaggeration dogs killed 6 children between 2007 and 2013 hardly every other month. Also the figure compares well to the fact that in 2008 124 children died on our roads. I appreciate that dogs can be a menace but a little perspective please.

Steve

 

[Nod]

Wild cars too! Horrid thing! Leaving their mess all over.

Right serious time.....

Why would I be interested? I have worked as an Enviromental consulyant for close on 20 years and as a professional Environmental Impact Assessor I work with developers on new build, remediation of land and habitat, protection of wildlife etc.

Still what do I know?

Sorry, can't help myself pointing out the trypo in a post that starts off by pointing out a trypo!!!

On a slightly more serious note, yes, cats can and do lose collars on a regular basis but I would far rather have to spend a fiver or even a tenner every month replacing a couple of collars with bells and a tag on them than find a hanged cat in a tree or have her bring in more wildlife. Since reading the post about sonic collars, I've been looking in shops for them but haven't seen one yet - any links to affordable ones (or cheapish sonic tags to go on existing collars)? I've been tempted by the Loc8tor device too so we can a) locate her when she's out and b) find her "hidden" collars but it's not cheap and has mixed reviews. She always comes back before too long so it would probably be a sledgehammer to crack a nut (but I'm good at that!)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Sorry, can't help myself pointing out the trypo in a post that starts off by pointing out a trypo!!!

On a slightly more serious note, yes, cats can and do lose collars on a regular basis but I would far rather have to spend a fiver or even a tenner every month replacing a couple of collars with bells and a tag on them than find a hanged cat in a tree or have her bring in more wildlife. Since reading the post about sonic collars, I've been looking in shops for them but haven't seen one yet - any links to affordable ones (or cheapish sonic tags to go on existing collars)? I've been tempted by the Loc8tor device too so we can a) locate her when she's out and b) find her "hidden" collars but it's not cheap and has mixed reviews. She always comes back before too long so it would probably be a sledgehammer to crack a nut (but I'm good at that!)

People are fully entitled to do pretty much what they want in their lives, within reason, and your doing what you see fit for you. I do the same. In the case of tagging the most I will do is the use of an RFID chip, then at least I (should) know, when a cat is lost or killed, what has happened. That said in the past 15 years I have lost 3 cats to their stupidity in crossing the road in front of the house. Sad but I do not get emotional about pets. Like dogs, there is a network of rescue shelters and centrres that reflect a general care structure for animals that find their way to them,for a wide varirty of reasons.

On the subject of this thread I will continue to wuestion the validity and lucidity of statistics that are based on very thin evidence. Extrapolation of "evidence" is usually the mainstay of evidence and is useful for selling ideas and promoting product. (9 out of 10 cat owners,when asked, said their cats prefered Whiskas.... really?). Statistics again.

Like you I would prefer not to find animals hung nd killed bu collars. The rural location means they range further from home and risk a wide range of threats. Easier not to add to their burden of risk.

Good luck with the ultrasonic collar search.

Steve

 

[jon ryan]

Oh dear, perhaps you could jump down off your high horse for a moment and even re read the thread. No one is on any high ground, except maybe Steve. I don't see this as a dog v cat discussion, its a cat v wildlife discussion. I will however add to your comments in a moment.

The OP quite responsibly commented about his cat bringing in nestlings, obviously this concerned him and I for one applaud his concern.

The figures quoted are from a body that has more knowledge than most of us, and yes, they do qualify their views, but the fact is that a lot of nestlings and endangered birds are being predated by cats, some of this is avoidable if only the owners were to take simple actions that could reduce the toll.

I'm not sure if you're wilfully misrepresenting the article or if you are genuinely incapable of comprehending its conclusion:

"Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific evidence that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird populations UK-wide. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease, or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds...Those bird species that have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. "

Full article without the cherry picking

I too have seen the quantity of birds using my feeders reduce to virtually zero after my dog passed away last year and the local felines were able to use my garden as a toilet and hunting ground without fear. However, as my new puppy get older that should revert again.

And I haven't. We have three cats and a dog, plus six bird feeders spread around a large rural garden. We have about 25 species of regular bird visitors. The cats take a few - perhaps averaging one per week between them - and many more mice and rats (do you think this is bad?). I would think that by putting out food for birds I am doing more to help numbers than the combined efforts of three cats to reduce them. And if you'd be bothered to read the rest of the article that you cited, rather than cherry-pick the bits you like, you may see that a high proportion of birds taken by cats are the weak and ill.

Regarding dogs being useless, I have yet to see a blind guide cat, a cat that helps invalids to do their daily chores, a cat that warns their deaf owner that an alarm is sounding, a bomb detector or drug detector cat, even a cat that can alert patients of impending medical emergencies,

Please tell me that you are joking here? You can't possible equate the behaviour of two such different species as cats and dogs in seriousness, can you? Have you seen a tropical fish that helps the blind? A hamster bomb detector? Do you understand the concept of 'species' as opposed to 'pets'?

I am not a cat hater by any means

'Course you're not, mate! 'Course you're not; you just don't want them in your neighbourhood and wouldn't want your daughter to bring one home. I bet some of your best friend have cats

perhaps the law should be changed so that dogs can predate cats, which after all, is only instinct, they would only be doing what comes naturally, just the same that has been previously stated about cats.

Ooh, great idea, Mr-I-don't-hate-cats-by-any-means. Shall we have this between the cock fight and the the badger bating?

ok ok, I know I have contradicted myself here, this last paragraph was for Steve and a few others who have said similar things, its a tongue in cheek comment and it will never happen.

I'm sure I could hear a little sigh of regret there.

Coming back to my question: are you attacking farmers for the number of birds they are killing, or is this like the rest of your selectivity?