Change from Crop to FF

Sko77y

Sko77y

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Scott
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Have been reading up on the benefts of FF cameras in comparison to Crop sensors for a while now.

Trying to fathom how I would a.) fund the change and b.) how I would go about it.

So I thought I would create a thread and see what the general thoughts were in terms of changing over from Crop to FF, how have you done it and managed your finances in order to complete the swap? Did you find the swap beneficial? etc.

Just looking for a general idea at the minute as it seems a very costly thing to do.

Just as a side note I have a 450D and a few lenses and could only really afford a 2nd hand Canon 7D at a stretch.

Cheers
Scott

:)
 
FF is definitely worth it. There are tons of threads on this forum about crop vs FF, so search for those as the topic has been debated over and over again.

At the price current second hand 5D2 price, it makes sense to save up a bit more and get a second hand 5D2 instead of 7D.
 
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Thankyou, il have a look into a 5d instead. Have searched through a lot of the threads on which is best. Its more the transition from one to the other. It would take a lot of saving/finance to change. Then there is the new lenses etc.

Quite a daunting task, becones a very serious hobby at that point. Im just a tad aprehensive when 4 digits start getting involved.

Cheers
Scott
 
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For me...

Going FF was sort of like going back to a 35mm SLR experience except that the DSLR camera and lens were bigger and heavier than any 35mm SLR I've ever owned.

As I'd got used to APS-C after using it for something like seven years the change in the field of view and camera to subject distance was a bit of a shock at first and in some situations like pseudo macro and low light I found myself fighting to get an acceptable mix of ISO, shutter speed and aperture/DoF, so it wasn't all positive. The positives did include better high ISO performance but mostly, to be honest, I was underwhelmed as I didn't see a significant difference, if any difference at all, between FF and APS-C at anything other than the higher ISO settings. I now have MFT kit too and again to be honest apart from at the higher ISO settings I struggle to see any significant difference between shots from either system.

If you really want to go FF the cheapest way to do it would be to go for an earlier generation FF body. As long as you don't want to go to the very extremes of higher ISO, don't want to produce prints the size of a house and don't require the very latest focusing systems, wifi etc... then you may be happy enough.

If going FF though I don't think that you should expect to see a night and day difference, certainly not at low to middling ISO's at normal whole image print and screen image sizes.
 
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Just so you know a 7d is still a crop sensor camera just like your current camera, the big question is what lens do you currently have if mainly EF-S I'd suggest you work on upgrading to FF compatible lens first :thumbs:
 
How to fund it? Save until you have enough! Maybe have a few fewer pints for a few weekends?

How to go about it? Erm... Walk into shop, choose camera and lens(es), pay, leave shop with light wallet and new toy!

Personally, I would start buy building a small collection of FF suitable lenses to replace any EF-S ones you have ATM. I was lucky - I had stuck with film (35mm) alongside my Dx Nikon DSLR and so all my lenses (apart from the 18-70 kit lens) were FF rather than Dx, so no extra expense once the kit lens had been replaced with a 24-70 f/2.8 (wider was already sorted with a 12-24 sigma). While FF lenses may seem a little overkill on a crop body, they really do shine over most crop lenses, mainly because the crop body uses the centre of the image circle rather than the outer edges. To avoid a huge investment in an FF body ("affordable" is a relative concept), you might consider a cheapish 35mm body to see how you get on with the FF experience. Of course, film + D&P isn't cheap but at maybe a tenner a pop (for a 36 exposure roll, inc 1 hour D&P and a CD of the images) you can do a fair amount of shooting for a fraction of the cost of an FF DSLR!
 
I was on Nikon D3100, all DX lenses, didn't like D700, so decided to move over to Canon with the 5D mark 2.

What I did was take most my payday money out, bought 5D2 with lens, then sell all the D3100 bits, as I sell a lens, I get a bit of cash to spend for the week. Ended up with an upgrade costing me no more than what I'd usually consider disposable income for that month.

I can't recommend this method of financing however, I had money in savings account I could fall back to if the gear didn't sell in time to pay for the bills. If the old gear didn't sell for a whole month, I'll be really stuffed.

First, don't do a system switch, it is painful and costly. Second, invest in full frame lenses first as those are compatible with your current camera. Finally, after a few months of saving with a few full frame lenses, buy the full frame camera of your dreams.
 
Sko77y said:
Just looking for a general idea at the minute as it seems a very costly thing to do.
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Then why do it?

What are you hoping to achieve? How is your current equipment letting you down? Those are the every first questions you should ask yourself.

Benefits and comparisons means nothing in isolation. You can compare 35mm to medium format, and medium format to large format, none of it makes any one format more valid than the other. The choice ultimately comes down to a compromise between cost, usability, and need, it should not be about specifications.

Maybe it is the right choice for you, but from your post it sounds like you feel you should upgrade for the sake of it, not because your photography is requiring it.
 
mij said:
Then why do it?

What are you hoping to achieve? How is your current equipment letting you down? Those are the every first questions you should ask yourself.

Benefits and comparisons means nothing in isolation. You can compare 35mm to medium format, and medium format to large format, none of it makes any one format more valid than the other. The choice ultimately comes down to a compromise between cost, usability, and need, it should not be about specifications.

Maybe it is the right choice for you, but from your post it sounds like you feel you should upgrade for the sake of it, not because your photography is requiring it.
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Wise words! I have done the 450d - 7d - 5D MK III upgrade route and every time it has been because the current body wasn't performing well enough for a specific type of job I was doing. Looking at the pics knowing they'd be better and why with a better body is what made me upgrade.

If you don't know this then you don't need an upgrade
 
woof woof said:
As I'd got used to APS-C after using it for something like seven years the change in the field of view and camera to subject distance was a bit of a shock at first and in some situations like pseudo macro and low light I found myself fighting to get an acceptable mix of ISO, shutter speed and aperture/DoF, so it wasn't all positive. The positives did include better high ISO performance but mostly, to be honest, I was underwhelmed as I didn't see a significant difference, if any difference at all, between FF and APS-C at anything other than the higher ISO settings. I now have MFT kit too and again to be honest apart from at the higher ISO settings I struggle to see any significant difference between shots from either system.
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Although I last bought a new DSLR in 2009, so I'm sure there are other new and sexy reasons to switch introduced by the manufacturers, this pretty much sums it up for me too; FF for me meant bigger light receptors and I linked this to less noise at high ISO, and a wider angle of view.

I went from a 350D to a 30D and then to the original 5D - which I still have. The only thing that really blew me away going from the 30D to the 5D was the brightness (and size) of the viewfinder. Picture wise, looking back now at the difference, I can't especially spot which pictures were taken with what camera without looking at EXIF.

I did find the 5D limiting in other ways - principally AF speed and accuracy for my son's short lived sports career, so I ended up adding a 1d Mk III to deal with that - pretty much as others have said - when you know what a camera is stopping you doing - you'll know what you need to look for in your next camera. Until then, no reason to change.
 
Thanks for all the adivce guys, some interesting thoughts to have a think over. Should have known a 7D was a crop sensor oops!

I've uprated my glass to lenses I am comfortable with but neither is FF friendly, I suppose that leads the question would an upgrade from a 450d to a 7d be noticable at all or give it a few years before ff.

The thing I would be most looking for in an FF would be image quality and not having the crop factor. Wether either of them is a good enough reason to out weigh budget I'm not quite sure at the minute.

Many thanks
Scott
 
I ended up full frame, as my ageing Nikon D200 was well, ageing.. and showing big signs of use.

When I went to my local camera shop, I had a play with the D600 and the D800 as that was the sort of budget I had in mind.
I had not specifically gone out looking for full frame, but I got the shop to stick a grip on the D800 (didn't like the D600, the body was a little smaller and didnt feel right), as my D200 had a grip. This immediately felt 'just right'
and now over the next few months I plan on updating a few lenses.
My 50mm f1.4 is fine and lovely!
24-70 f2.8 Sigma HSM is ok.. but not what I want and for some reason.. at 24mm vignettes slightly.
80-400vr not heavily used, but could not sell it for fear of castration as my wife bought it for my for my birthday.

I would now like a few nikon lenses (specifically the 85mm 1.4 and 24-70).

Sorry for the ramble, probably no help to you at all really :bonk:
 
Sko77y said:
Thanks for all the adivce guys, some interesting thoughts to have a think over. Should have known a 7D was a crop sensor oops!

I've uprated my glass to lenses I am comfortable with but neither is FF friendly, I suppose that leads the question would an upgrade from a 450d to a 7d be noticable at all or give it a few years before ff.

The thing I would be most looking for in an FF would be image quality and not having the crop factor. Wether either of them is a good enough reason to out weigh budget I'm not quite sure at the minute.

Many thanks
Scott
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The 7d is a better camera than the 450d in loads of respects, but if the 450d isn't holding you back in those areas, why change. It seems the answers have made you ask more questions, but not the ones they were intended to.

What is it about the 450d that you feel is holding you back?
 
I started with a 550D and was very happy with the majority of my shots, I shoot a lot of aviation though and in poor light it was very difficult getting the shutter speed up enough without getting too 'noisy'. After being left some money in a will I upgraded to a 7D and 5D2 combo which gave me a good body for low light shots and a good body for fast moving subjects.

When the 5D3 was released I decided to sell both bodies and go for a body that could do everything, but then I missed having a second body so I got another 7d eventually to go with it although I would like something that handles low light shooting better than the 7D in the future.
 
it seems this thread has thrown up a lot of questions and answers, highlighting what I need to go away and have a look at if i'm honest. I would love to go FF and avoid the crop factor but the expense is huge. I'll need to look into a 7d and see what it can offer in comparison.

I'll go away have a look and see if its a viable thing to try and do or wether I should keep the 450d for a while longer.

Thanks for all the advice and tips, I've got a lot of thinking to go away and do now

Scott
 
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Sko77y said:
So all in all the majority are in favour of an upgrade to FF, just finding the funds. Whats the recomended FF 2nd hand body to go for? 5d mk2 was suggested above?
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I have to ask...
Have you been reading a different thread? Or have you just decided to go FF and you're trying to get the opinions of others to justify your decision?
 
Phil V said:
I have to ask...
Have you been reading a different thread? Or have you just decided to go FF and you're trying to get the opinions of others to justify your decision?
Click to expand...

No not trying to justify it, I hope it wouldnt just be a whim. perhaps what I am looking for is just an uprated crop sensor and not a FF. I'll need to go away and have a look/have a shot of an ff. For now I think I've got some of the information I was after.
 
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