Classifieds - very quiet?

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walls said:
I went away, providing the freedom that you enjoy...back now. Flippant remarks aren't welcome
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I'm not reffering to your total absence since dec 2015 - if you've been off serving your country good on you ... however it doesnt really explain the nearly three years prior to that when you managed to find time and access to post in the classified but not outside of them....
 
Well, I must admit they are quieter than they once used to be, but perhaps most people these days, including me, are a bit tighter with their money. Or people are hanging onto their kit and not changing/swapping around so much.
 
walls said:
It does really
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No it really doesnt - if you've got time to post in classifieds you've got time to post elsewhere .. of course maybe you don't want to and thats fine, but "I didnt have time to post outside the classies is the sorriest excuse since "the dog ate my homework"
 
big soft moose said:
No it really doesnt - if you've got time to post in classifieds you've got time to post elsewhere .. of course maybe you don't want to and thats fine, but "I didnt have time to post outside the classies is the sorriest excuse since "the dog ate my homework"
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ok, thanks for your input.
 
I would agree with recent comments in here apart from staff/mods don't really seem to admit that the classifieds have died due to the change / clarification of rules.

Not that I'm saying I agree or don't agree with the change but purely that its the direct reason for the change. It's nothing to do with Brexit or Facebook (which was already here) or another reason. It's a direct reason for the reduction in the classifieds. It might not have been the moderators rationale but the clarification of rules like it or not has caused the decline in the classifieds.

Just review the classifieds vs activity say 6 months ago vs other 2nd hand mechanisms vs 6 months ago. This forum on the grand scale of things is a very small proportion of the 2nd hand market and it's not that other markets have increased or decreased. It's a direct result of changes to the forum. IMHO any other view is just burying your head in the sand
 
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mike_6480 said:
Just review the classifieds vs activity say 6 months ago vs other 2nd hand mechanisms vs 6 months ago. This forum on the grand scale of things is a very small proportion of the 2nd hand market and it's not that other markets have increased or decreased. It's a direct result of changes to the forum. IMHO any other view is just burying your head in the sand
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Except you miss the point. The admins of the forum want the classifieds to be a small add-on to the forum and they don't want it to be a classifieds site with a small forum on the side.

What you describe is what they wanted to achieve...
 
But I havent once seen the admins state that their goal was to make the classifieds a lesser part of the site? Happy for you to prove me wrong with a quote from an admin but I havent seen this.

I think you actually missed the point of my post. I'm not saying that wasn't the point it's just that admin haven't openly stated that and people have suggested the classifieds have reduced for other reasons.

Dave1 said:
Except you miss the point. The admins of the forum want the classifieds to be a small add-on to the forum and they don't want it to be a classifieds site with a small forum on the side.

What you describe is what they wanted to achieve...
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mike_6480 said:
But I havent once seen the admins state that their goal was to make the classifieds a lesser part of the site? Happy for you to prove me wrong with a quote from an admin but I havent seen this.

I think you actually missed the point of my post. I'm not saying that wasn't the point it's just that admin haven't openly stated that and people have suggested the classifieds have reduced for other reasons.
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The admins have said for as long as I can remember, which is quite a long time, that the classifieds are there as a handy bonus for regular contributors to the site.

So it was not a goal to make the classifieds a lesser part of the site, it was the vision that it should not be a significant part of the site and certainly not the primary reason to join (which is was certainly becoming for some people)
 
mike_6480 said:
I would agree with recent comments in here apart from staff/mods don't really seem to admit that the classifieds have died due to the change / clarification of rules.
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The classifieds have always been a perk for contributing members, there are traders here that pay for the privilege to sell their wares, do you think that its fair that some members,
only interest in TP was buying and then selling equipment ( for a profit) and not paying any fee's, be that eBay's / paypal's or TP's?
And never posting an image or joining in discussions / helping other members etc etc?

Over the last few years, we were spending 90% of our time, "sorting out" the classifieds and its various problems,
chasing down and asking perpetual habitual buyers / sellers to at least post around the forums a little,mostly the warnings / requests were ignored.

The system was automated, I'm sure you have seen the discussion thread where all the different scenario's were discussed.
And it was curious that only ones that complained, in the thread, were the ones that were well over or fast approaching that magic 50%.

Now its automated, I guess less than 10% of our time is taken up with it.
 
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I think you are missing the point of this thread?

It's not a "is the automation of the classifieds threshold a good idea" thread, it's a "what has caused the classifieds activity to decrease" thread.

As you rightly point out there have been other threads on the former. And I'm not saying the automation of the classifieds threshold isn't a good thing.

However the answer to this thread is "Automation of the classifieds threshold". My point was that moderators / admin don't seem to be willing to state that.

Cobra said:
The classifieds have always been a perk for contributing members, there are traders here that pay for the privilege to sell their wares, do you think that its fair that some members,
only interest in TP was buying and then selling equipment ( for a profit) and not paying any fee's, be that eBay's / paypal's or TP's?
And never posting an image or joining in discussions / helping other members etc etc?

Over the last few years, we were spending 90% of our time, "sorting out" the classifieds and its various problems,
chasing down and asking perpetual habitual buyers / sellers to at least post around the forums a little,mostly the warnings / requests were ignored.

The system was automated, I'm sure you have seen the discussion thread where all the different scenario's were discussed.
And it was curious that only ones that complained, in the thread, were the ones that were well over or fast approaching that magic 50%.

Now its automated, I guess less than 10% of our time is taken up with it.
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mike_6480 said:
I think you are missing the point of this thread?

It's not a "is the automation of the classifieds threshold a good idea" thread, it's a "what has caused the classifieds activity to decrease" thread.
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It seems that previously the classified thread was a major drain on resources. Automating has reduced their workload, and that if the knock-on effect was that classifieds activity dropped then that was an acceptable price for the reduction of moderation required. The standpoint over classifieds appears to be that it's only be a very minor part of overall activity, and this quietening is not at all a bad thing. There have been calls from some (not mods) to shut it altogether.
 
mike_6480 said:
It's not a "is the automation of the classifieds threshold a good idea" thread, it's a "what has caused the classifieds activity to decrease" thread.
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Which also misses the point that most people seem unconcerned, the Classifieds just isn't that important to many (most?) members.
 
Again you are missing the point of this thread...

The OP asked

"I just noticed how quiet it is in the classifieds (Canon) sect. A couple years ago there was easily five-fold traffic. Is this some holiday quiet time, recession or people just stopped trading for whatever reason? I'm just hoping it will pick up again..."

Answer is "due to automation of classifieds rules". You could obviously expand and say "to ensure membership is only for members that fully contribute to other areas of the forum".

The OP didn't ask if the automation was a good idea. They might not even know about the automation. So the reason why it was automated is irrelevant to this thread


ancient_mariner said:
It seems that previously the classified thread was a major drain on resources. Automating has reduced their workload, and that if the knock-on effect was that classifieds activity dropped then that was an acceptable price for the reduction of moderation required. The standpoint over classifieds appears to be that it's only be a very minor part of overall activity, and this quietening is not at all a bad thing. There have been calls from some (not mods) to shut it altogether.
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mike_6480 said:
My point was that moderators / admin don't seem to be willing to state that.
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Not sure what you are asking?
The threshold for classies access is to stay below a ratio of 50/50 posts.
Is that what you mean?

Or why has activity dropped off?
Its always peaked and troughed, many posts that were in the classifieds were "old" and items had been sold months before,
the other thing that is now automated, is that posts with no replies, either from buyers or a "bump" from the seller, automatically get archived,
after 5 days, so only current items for sale remain on view.
You wouldn't believe the amount of RTM's we got from people wanting to buy, having read through several pages only to find that the item(s) was (were) sold weeks ago.
Its leaner and meaner :)

Is that what you meant?
 
The latter ie why it's dropped off as after all that was the OP question ie why less than say 2 years ago.

I wasn't fully aware re 5 days rule so that has obviously also contributed by cleaning up any old threads

Cobra said:
Not sure what you are asking?
The threshold for classies access is to stay below a ratio of 50/50 posts.
Is that what you mean?

Or why has activity dropped off?
Its always peaked and troughed, many posts that were in the classifieds were "old" and items had been sold months before,
the other thing that is now automated, is that posts with no replies, either from buyers or a "bump" from the seller, automatically get archived,
after 5 days, so only current items for sale remain on view.
You wouldn't believe the amount of RTM's we got from people wanting to buy, having read through several pages only to find that the item(s) was (were) sold weeks ago.
Its leaner and meaner :)

Is that what you meant?
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Alastair said:
Which also misses the point that most people seem unconcerned, the Classifieds just isn't that important to many (most?) members.
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I'm sorry but I think it's you that has missed the point. The OP question was why activity has reduced. Your point would be correct if they asked "why is the classifieds posts so low compared to other areas of the forum". But then again the threshold for having access would also be a reason as well.
 
mike_6480 said:
The latter ie why it's dropped off as after all that was the OP question ie why less than say 2 years ago.
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And I see the OP disappeared from this thread ages ago :D

As you probably know the "automation" came in a little over a year ago, sure, its taken out the people that only ever posted in the classifieds, once they reached the requisite criteria,
but these were the people that were (usually) selling multiple items, that they had bought elsewhere, and were selling here.

Mostly it went smoothly, but a few cases, they were buying, selling as perfect, of course they hadn't tested it and it wasn't quite what it seemed, thankfully these were minor incidents.
They would also buy to order, ie advertise something they never had, but bought from the likes of gumtree or ebay, once they had a sale.
All the rules and regs are in place to try and protect the buyer. Mostly it works, but no system is infallible of course.

mike_6480 said:
I wasn't fully aware re 5 days rule so that has obviously also contributed by cleaning up any old threads
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I can only guesstimate that its taken about 40-50% of (old defunked) threads out of the equation.



mike_6480 said:
But then again the threshold for having access would also be a reason as well.
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That has been in place for years, I'm not sure how many but certainly well over two, maybe nearer 5, I really can't remember.
That was put in place, in the days when we were a small community, and goods were being sold at a good price, member to member.
Several people cottoned on to this, mates telling mates etc, people were joining up, just to buy cheap gear, never to be seen again.
Or conversely, selling "less than perfect" items, never to be seen again, thankfully this was quite rare.

And of course the habitual sellers also cottoned on to this, and the prices rose steadily, so in reality, now, there are really very few actual bargains to be had.
 
Cobra said:
That has been in place for years, I'm not sure how many but certainly well over two, maybe nearer 5, I really can't remember.
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I said that in response to the off topic post re there isnt much activity because the classifieds aren't important to most people. However the OP asked about changes in activity so that's irrelevant (unless just those who were interested decided to leave). I was just pointing out that obviously the classifieds should be less busy than other areas of the forum because it isn't open to all.
 
mike_6480 said:
I was just pointing out that obviously the classifieds should be less busy than other areas of the forum because it isn't open to all.
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Actually your'll be surprised, with over 60,000 members, ( and new ones joining every day) unless they just join for the hell of it, and not post, everyone of them, that has been here a couple of months and joined in,
( that's less than one post per 2 days) all will have access.
A handful have asked to have the classifieds removed from their notifications, so they aren't tempted, another handful have had their access removed due to indiscretions around that section,
So as you can see, worst case scenario, that's several thousand members with access, but obviously its just not an important part of TP for the large majority of members.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The standpoint over classifieds appears to be that it's only be a very minor part of overall activity, and this quietening is not at all a bad thing. There have been calls from some (not mods) to shut it altogether.
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l've often said close it, it does seem to cause more whinging then anything else.
Would the forum be worse off without ?
For those truly here to enjoy a photography forum l seriously doubt it
 
Gremlin said:
l've often said close it, it does seem to cause more whinging then anything else.
Would the forum be worse off without ?
For those truly here to enjoy a photography forum l seriously doubt it
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I think for some, closing would be a bad step. Personally speaking it's a great place to buy. I really dislike eBay and every lens bar one has come from here (not to mention the many sold too). Appreciate there are the odd trades that end in dispute but the vast majority seem to be fine.
 
I wonder if it's a coincidence that the person who has made 7 posts to this thread in the last 2 days has a classifieds ratio of 48%? That's perilously close to 50%. It's ironic, isn't it, that talking about the classifieds helps one to get/maintain access to the classifieds.
 
Gremlin said:
l've often said close it, it does seem to cause more whinging then anything else.
Would the forum be worse off without ?
For those truly here to enjoy a photography forum l seriously doubt it
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In my case, I only came to the forum because I'd heard elsewhere this was a good place to pick up a used camera, and then only stuck around until my time/post count gave me access. And then bought new anyway. :p

My perception is that the forum is quieter now than any time I can remember since 2013, and I'm sure the mods can either correct or confirm this if they have access to the stats.
 
Cobra said:
That was put in place, in the days when we were a small community, and goods were being sold at a good price, member to member.
Several people cottoned on to this, mates telling mates etc, people were joining up, just to buy cheap gear, never to be seen again.
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ancient_mariner said:
In my case, I only came to the forum because I'd heard elsewhere this was a good place to pick up a used camera, and then only stuck around
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Ah so you are one (y) :D
StewartR said:
It's ironic, isn't it, that talking about the classifieds helps one to get/maintain access to the classifieds.
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It's purely coincidental I'm sure .. :D

ancient_mariner said:
My perception is that the forum is quieter now than any time I can remember since 2013
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As above the forums ( all of them) do peak and trough, but yes at the moment its "quiet" and people do drift away,.
When I joined, nearly 10 years ago, there was well under 2000 members and most of them active.
Quite a few people I knew back then have drifted away, and / or have not posted in a very long time ( years some of them) Of course I don't / didn't know everyone,
but its an example how things change, people move on to other things.

Also, it appears than a lot of people also moved to posting images on FB and the like, they seem to prefer "love it" "its stunning" from their mates, and relatives,
rather than honest critic from "strangers"

Just observations from someone that's been around awhile, rather than hard data.
 
Cobra said:
As above the forums ( all of them) do peak and trough, but yes at the moment its "quiet" and people do drift away,.
When I joined, nearly 10 years ago, there was well under 2000 members and most of them active.
Quite a few people I knew back then have drifted away, and / or have not posted in a very long time ( years some of them) Of course I don't / didn't know everyone,
but its an example how things change, people move on to other things.

Also, it appears than a lot of people also moved to posting images on FB and the like, they seem to prefer "love it" "its stunning" from their mates, and relatives,
rather than honest critic from "strangers"

Just observations from someone that's been around awhile, rather than hard data.
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I nearly included comments about watching forums grow and shrink over the years, having been involved in different forums since the late 90s. They come and go, sometimes like the tide, but more usually peak and then decline gradually. There's usually a key factor that seems to trigger the decline: Bikemagic had a key figure behind the website leave, Harmony Central had forum software management issues and then wanted to become 'family-friendly', Diaspora had a change of direction etc etc. There's usually a bunch of original contributors who make a forum a place people want to go, they move on when it gets popular, then someone gives the pile a nudge for one reason or another and the 'ordinary' mass slide away to the next interesting thing, the final stage being the forum that clings on at reduced size without many of the originals who made it amazing at the start.

Forums are still a relatively new social platform, even though they've been around for 20 years, and I don't think we've quite figured out how to use them yet.
 
Maybe they should revoke automatic entry into the classifieds and make it by invitation only, at the whims of the Mods.
Would be a lot more work for the Mods, but would make it an actual privilege for making a contribution, and also give the Mods lots of scope to collect bribes... ;)
 
ancient_mariner said:
I nearly included comments about watching forums grow and shrink over the years, having been involved in different forums since the late 90s. They come and go, sometimes like the tide, but more usually peak and then decline gradually. There's usually a key factor that seems to trigger the decline: Bikemagic had a key figure behind the website leave, Harmony Central had forum software management issues and then wanted to become 'family-friendly', Diaspora had a change of direction etc etc. There's usually a bunch of original contributors who make a forum a place people want to go, they move on when it gets popular, then someone gives the pile a nudge for one reason or another and the 'ordinary' mass slide away to the next interesting thing, the final stage being the forum that clings on at reduced size without many of the originals who made it amazing at the start.

Forums are still a relatively new social platform, even though they've been around for 20 years, and I don't think we've quite figured out how to use them yet.
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Funny enough Toni, I take all your points, and its curious, I was on a couple of falconry forums when they were actually "Yahoo groups / lists" that must be about 15 - 20 years ago,
both still exist, but have also changed a lot, and is a shadow of their former selves, and we were having the same discussions way back when, "have the groups had their day"? who would have thought they would have morphed into the internet forums that we love to hate these day's?

Llamaman said:
and also give the Mods lots of scope to collect bribes... ;)
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I like your thinking :D
 
Cobra said:
Funny enough Toni, I take all your points, and its curious, I was on a couple of falconry forums when they were actually "Yahoo groups / lists" that must be about 15 - 20 years ago,
both still exist, but have also changed a lot, and is a shadow of their former selves, and we were having the same discussions way back when, "have the groups had their day"? who would have thought they would have morphed into the internet forums that we love to hate these day's?
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There's one particular forum that started off with UK and US segments, both of which were quite active, and after subsequent merging with nearly >9000 members the combined effort dwindled away to almost nothing (as in maybe one post a day on average). Some of the people that had been active on the UK side stopped their band, meaning they stopped having so much to discuss, and for a couple of years there was a small group of about 15 of us that carried on chatting about guitars and techniques, but in the end it was as though the small group turned around and realised everyone else had walked away. The forum owner is now selling it for someone else who's happy to put the effort & cash in to build it up again.

TP appeared to be notable exception in the extinction of common-interest forums, and I'd wondered what it was that had kept it so active. Personally I prefer forums to facebook etc, but crowds seem to draw crowds and as we know, 50 billion flies can't be wrong ;)
 
I like all of TP which includes the classifieds, just think many people are currently hesitant to spend with the rather fluid and uncertain state of the economy.
 
Agree with Rich above. I also like the whole of TP, I have learnt a lot here and I have used the classifieds to buy and sell things as I have changed kit or systems. But its certainly important to contribute to the whole forum and not just take advantage of one part. Thats what makes the community great.
 
StewartR said:
I wonder if it's a coincidence that the person who has made 7 posts to this thread in the last 2 days has a classifieds ratio of 48%? That's perilously close to 50%. It's ironic, isn't it, that talking about the classifieds helps one to get/maintain access to the classifieds.
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Or I way actually answering the OP. Which you were not. Or maybe because Cobra quoted my posted I obviously then get a notification so it brings my attention to this thread, and then responded. If you've read the thread properly you will see that my posts are some of the few that are actually on topic on this thread and post have actually be in response to other threads. If you don't won't be to post on this thread, simple, then don't pot about my posts ...

And if you were a better detective you'd realise that because of the number of posts I've made on the forums in total (which is obviously still much less than many people, you included) 2% is still quite a lot of posts so I'm not currently in danger of losing access. Not that I have anything I want to buy or sell at present anyway.

Like other people have commented, I was a beginner when I first joined here so as well as learning lots of information, contributing etc, I have also used the forum to both buy and sell equipment to further my hobby. Now I don't think that's a crime or doing anyone any harm now is it?


mickledore said:
Posts that seem to have been made for no other reason than making a post????
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You mean like your post above? Except mine was actually answering the OP where as your wasn't? The phrase "pot calling kettle" springs to mind!
 
OldCarlos said:
Hence my feeling re one poster; 560 posts in 1 year, 51% of those in the classifieds, then follows a similar repeating pattern of not posting anything for a while, then........posting a dozen `crits` in a day.
Doesn't always leave `feedback` & also keeps thread posts/replies in classifieds to a bare minimum.
Also I don't think they've posted a single image
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Well well, not surprisingly, the person I was referring to has been busted & banned as a `trader` :rolleyes:

Maybe the classifieds will be even quieter now. :cool:
 
ancient_mariner said:
Personally I prefer forums to facebook etc, but crowds seem to draw crowds and as we know, 50 billion flies can't be wrong
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:D

ancient_mariner said:
TP appeared to be notable exception in the extinction of common-interest forums, and I'd wondered what it was that had kept it so active.
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I guess its the same answer as why do 8/10 cats prefer whiskers?
Some are just better than others :)

OldCarlos said:
Well well, not surprisingly, the person I was referring to has been busted & banned as a `trader` :rolleyes:
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And not for the first time either (under a different guise or two! )
A persistent little bugger eh? :D
 
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