Beginner Compact Cameras for nature?

[Crotal Bell]

Hi all
Total newbie here on a very limited budget and needing advice.

I take lots of walks in the country, and today for example, I had a Buzzard circling overhead and a Skylark popping it's head out of the cereal seedlings about 40yrds away.

So can you get nice shots of thigs like these on a compact zoom camera like a Sony Cybershot, or would it be a waste of money?

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

For those sorts of things you need a lens that's the equivalent of a 30x telescope or better.

Look at cameras which have zooms described as 40x or more. Buying second hand from a dealer is relatively safe, although you're limited to the stock they have at the time. Don't be put off by people telling you that you need to spend a lot of money or have a big camera. There are several pocketable cameras that can do the job at a reasonable price.

Something like a second hand Panasonic TZ70 or Sony HX90 will be around £150 - £200 and will let you capture pictures like this, albeit with a little manipulation in the computer...

 

[Crotal Bell]

For those sorts of things you need a lens that's the equivalent of a 30x telescope or better.

Look at cameras which have zooms described as 40x or more. Buying second hand from a dealer is relatively safe, although you're limited to the stock they have at the time. Don't be put off by people telling you that you need to spend a lot of money or have a big camera. There are several pocketable cameras that can do the job at a reasonable price.

Something like a second hand Panasonic TZ70 or Sony HX90 will be around £150 - £200 and will let you capture pictures like this, albeit with a little manipulation in the computer...

View attachment 350522
View attachment 350523View attachment 350524

Thanks that's very impressive. I just saw that Currys are doing a Canon 2000D package with a second zoom lens for £500 and you can pay monthly to spread the expense. Would I be right in thinking this would be a major step up from a compact?

 

[Marino]

I haven't got an opinion on compacts. The smallest camera I ever used was a sigma DP1-MERILL.

But since you're thinking about canon 2000D instead of o compact, it means you don't really know what you need yet. Which is normal when you're first starting out. My opinion would be to get a used camera, half the money, better equipment.
Plus if you change your mind you're not losing much money when you sell it back.

Marino

 

[Crotal Bell]

I haven't got an opinion on compacts. The smallest camera I ever used was a sigma DP1-MERILL.

But since you're thinking about canon 2000D instead of o compact, it means you don't really know what you need yet. Which is normal when you're first starting out. My opinion would be to get a used camera, half the money, better equipment.
Plus if you change your mind you're not losing much money when you sell it back.

Marino

That's a good point. I love walking and I have wanted a decent camera for a long time, but I haven't a clue what to buy.

 

[Marino]

The type of photos you're going to take determine what type of camera you need. Things like, the Lens focal length(zoom or prime lens). The sensor size(i would buy nothing else except micro third, aps-c and full frame), the viewfinder (electronic or optical), camera size.
Maybe would be best to start by trying to figure out what type of photography you think you would like the most. Unfortunately you can't have everything in one camera, you have to compromise in some areas.

 

[Jeff18]

Thanks that's very impressive. I just saw that Currys are doing a Canon 2000D package with a second zoom lens for £500 and you can pay monthly to spread the expense. Would I be right in thinking this would be a major step up from a compact?

I have a Canon 2000D that I started out with as far as DSLRs go, and its a very nice camera for beginners. By way of example, I got this shot of a North American Robin a couple of years ago. This pic was taken with the 2000D and the stock EF75-300mm lens that is normally sold with it. It is, however, not a compact camera, but a full size DSLR.
RobinInTree by Jeff Ashman, on Flickr

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Would I be right in thinking this would be a major step up from a compact?

Not for your original requirement.

You said you wanted something easy to carry and not too expensive. A Canon 2000D would require a 400mm lens to give you anything like the usability, for your needs, of the type of camera I mentioned. Together, the lens and camera would probably cost more than £700, which I imagine is far outside your original budget. Moreover, it would be large, quite heavy and cumbersome.

I did warn you that people would steer you towards big expensive kit. However @Marino is quite right that you have to compromise. I would still recommend a "travelzoom" compact because that meets your original requirement. Such a camera will give you the maximum flexibility for the minimum size, weight, and money.

Some more examples of what such cameras can achieve...

 

[Cobra]

I had a canon power shot SX520 Hs, until recently.
It was great fun, but I found I wasn't getting the use out of it.
And sold it.
Second hand they are worth about £150, from the like of Amazon or bay of fleas.

Macro setting



Up close and personal.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I had a canon power shot SX520 Hs, until recently.

Another good option.

Not quite as small as the travel zooms but still light enough to go everywhere with you.

 

[Cobra]

Not quite as small as the travel zooms but still light enough to go everywhere with you.

Agreed, it's a tad too big just to slip in your pocket.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Agreed, it's a tad too big just to slip in your pocket.

...but it is a practical recommendation for the original requirement.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I had a canon power shot SX520 Hs, until recently.
It was great fun, but I found I wasn't getting the use out of it.
And sold it.
Second hand they are worth about £150, from the like of Amazon or bay of fleas.

Macro setting

View attachment 350555

Up close and personal.

View attachment 350556

I like the look of that, and there's some really good reviews on You Tube. That style of camera could be exactly what I'm after, as I won't have money for multiple lenses or high end DSLRs, But for simple point and shoot with decent zoom, just shooting the odd insect or bird in the fields in good daylight, that seems to do a really nice job. (and I don't mind if it's not quite pocket size, a bit bigger is fine)

 

[Crotal Bell]

...but it is a practical recommendation for the original requirement.

I have a lot to learn !
The idea of a DSLR style body with a powerful zoom is probably my realistic limit,. I was over the cemetery the other day, Jackdaws were hopping around the gravestones in the sunshine and I wanted a nice picture. They weren't letting me get closer than 15yrds. When you snap that on a smartphone and crop to the bird, it's so noisy and pixelated. The Canon PS SX520 Hs or similar seems ideal for this?
Also just zooming in on the Rooks in the tree tops, nothing over-difficult, just nice sharp pictures were you need that 20-30 yard zoom in on animals without them running/flying off !

 

[Cobra]

The Canon PS SX520 Hs or similar seems ideal for this?

I'm sure it won't be a problem,
If you go for the 84x digital zoom setting it does get noisy but up to 42x ( that's plenty at that distance) it'll be fine,

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Also just zooming in on the Rooks in the tree tops, nothing over-difficult, just nice sharp pictures were you need that 20-30 yard zoom in on animals without them running/flying off !

That class of camera is often called a "Bridge Camera".

Here are some dealers that sell second hand cameras of that type...

Second hand cameras, camera part exchange, digital cameras UK, used cameras, photographic shops, England

The London Camera Exchange supplies second hand cameras, new cameras, digital cameras and other camera equipment and provides a camera part exchange in photographic shops all over England, UK.

www.lcegroup.co.uk

Used Bridge Cameras | Second Hand Bridge Cameras | CameraWorld

www.cameraworld.co.uk

CeX Buy & Sell Games, Phones, DVDs, Blu-ray, Electronics, Computing, Vision & CDs

uk.webuy.com

Used Digital Compact System Cameras | Harrison Cameras

Explore our selection of Used Digital Compact Cameras. With free delivery, 1st class service, 14 days money back guarantee and full 12 months warranty included.

www.harrisoncameras.co.uk

...that should start you off!

 

[woof woof]

Keith, you could add the Panasonic TZ100 to your list of things to look at. It's a compact with a 1" sensor and a 25-250mm zoom. Sony make a similar range of 1" sensor compact cameras but as far as I know they have a shorter zoom range so may not meet your needs. These 1" sensor compacts give better image quality than compacts with smaller sensors.

DSLR's like the Canon 2000D are getting to be a bit old tech now and mirrorless cameras are slowly taking over but one advantage for DSLR's is that there are some very good deals about so I suppose one deciding factor could be how big a camera do you want to carry and use? A DSLR would probably be the largest, then a bridge camera with a compact being the smallest.

 

[Nod]

IME, the longer end of the TZ100's zoom range is more marketing than anything really useful. 150mm (35mm EFL) is about as far as you want to go with it and keep reasonable IQ.

 

[woof woof]

IME, the longer end of the TZ100's zoom range is more marketing than anything really useful. 150mm (35mm EFL) is about as far as you want to go with it and keep reasonable IQ.

I disagree.

Making a lens of this size will involve compromises and very possibly sample variation but the one I have is certainly useable at maximum zoom with the lens quality being good enough for whole picture and even closer viewing, pixel peeping at 100% will be a different story but this is not IMO just marketing.

Taken the last time I used this camera at a reported 270mm equiv. I made a pano from these.

Whole picture and this isn't an excuse more of a fact of life, these may lose some sharpness during the posting process. Also there's some haze there.

After a 200% crop I can read was it says on that yellow crane.

100% from another reported 270mm picture, this time something closer rather than distant.

I can certainly see good detail in the leaves in the centre of the frame where the point of focus is but this has been made softer during posting.

What is acceptable is debatable but this is sort of image quality is acceptable from this sort of camera for me.

 

[woof woof]

More from the same day.

Sorry if this has taken things slightly off topic. I think it's just one that could be on the list of possibles, or not.

 

[Kell]

There are compromises all over the place when you want to look for something with a wide zoom range, but is small and lightweight and doesn't cost the earth. Even buying top-end zoom lenses is seen as a compromise by those that prefer fixed primes. The more flexibility you build in, the worse the image quality.

You have to decide which is most important to you and build from there.

I currently have a Canon PowerShot GX5 and while I don't think it would meet your needs (it only covers 24-100mm), the image quality is surprisingly good from something so small. It's also very tactile and seems to be very well built.

I prefer it to any of the other compacts I had before it in almost all ways except for the more limited zoom. Image quality is better, but it doesn't offer the range you'd need or that I previously had. However, one of the things I found most frustrating with any of the compacts I had previously was that at their maximum zoom, the fiddly nature of them meant that it was hard to hold them steady enough to take a decent picture without blur.

I can honestly say, I never got anything other than 'snaps' with any of the other compacts, Whereas I've got some very nice pictures from the PowerShot - some I'd even consider putting on my wall.

The other problem I had with the compacts I had, is that focus is much more hit and miss. they all tended to have a square rather than a point for focusing and it very often picked up stuff in the foreground rather than the subject. Unlike the picture above with the North American Robin (In this Post), they would pick up the branches in front of the bird instead. (PS, I know that's not a compact)

Here's a link to the PowerShot album on Flickr: and one or two of my favourite shots:

(Please note, that none of these are pictures of birds)

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mNtybG]IMG_0652 by Kell Lunam-Cowan, on Flickr[/URL]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mP8Foi]Snowy Sunrise by Kell Lunam-Cowan, on Flickr[/URL]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mXVuY1]Morning Mist with a sunrise behind by Kell Lunam-Cowan, on Flickr[/URL]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mP6CBe]View from Aslundur Lakefront Villa by Kell Lunam-Cowan, on Flickr[/URL]

 

[Crotal Bell]

That class of camera is often called a "Bridge Camera".

Here are some dealers that sell second hand cameras of that type...

Second hand cameras, camera part exchange, digital cameras UK, used cameras, photographic shops, England

The London Camera Exchange supplies second hand cameras, new cameras, digital cameras and other camera equipment and provides a camera part exchange in photographic shops all over England, UK.

www.lcegroup.co.uk

Used Bridge Cameras | Second Hand Bridge Cameras | CameraWorld

www.cameraworld.co.uk

CeX Buy & Sell Games, Phones, DVDs, Blu-ray, Electronics, Computing, Vision & CDs

uk.webuy.com

Used Digital Compact System Cameras | Harrison Cameras

Explore our selection of Used Digital Compact Cameras. With free delivery, 1st class service, 14 days money back guarantee and full 12 months warranty included.

www.harrisoncameras.co.uk

...that should start you off!

Thanks for the links.

 

[Crotal Bell]

So a 499 quid double lens package on this entry level DSLR. Would I regret this if I pushed my budget?

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/canon-eos-2000d-dslr-camera-with-efs-1855-mm-f3.55.6-iii-and-ef-75300-mm-f45.6-iii-lens-10204844.html?store=2216&&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=2928af81-b29b-476c-a180-ac5de265a98e&istItemId=irxwtaxlm&istBid=t&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~0011%20(Shopping%20Ads)%20Interchangeable%20Lens%20Cameras%20-%20Brand%20Canon%202021~0011%20(PLA)%20INTERCHANGEABLE%20LENS%20CAMERAS%20BRAND%20CANON%20ad%20group~Exact~71700000079765895~&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700060728580905&tgtid=0011%20(Shopping%20Ads)%20Interchangeable%20Lens%20Cameras%20-%20Brand%20Canon%202021&gclid=CjwKCAjwu_mSBhAYEiwA5BBmf6rEgz1Lh0ICeDSOOqovQnQDUOHPwoiLIrXCbD_EcbEO7mdSzoAb-BoCGH8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Nod]

Possibly, especially if you have shaky hands - neither lens has Image Stabilisation. However, we used to struggle along just fine without that before it was invented!

 

[stickytape]

I think usability should come into it too - maybe a slightly larger camera like the Sony RX series or Panasonic FZ series would be worth a look..

 

[engine driver]

I dont feel that I am qualified to offer you advise however perhaps you might consider one of the Olympus TG models . They will fit in your pocket they can be dropped and they can also go under water . I have a couple of Nikons rarely use them my TG 1 goes everywhere with me ...................just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

So a 499 quid double lens package on this entry level DSLR. Would I regret this if I pushed my budget?

Only you can answer that but you did originally ask about a pocketable camera to take pictures of birds and suchlike.

It sounds like you're developing gear acquisition syndrome (GAS) and that isn't always a good thing. I suggest you go out for a walk and think through what you really want to achieve.

 

[Compuwight]

IMHO you are going down an all to familiar road - Wanting a cheap lightweight camera whilst at the same time lusting after those 'punchy' long range shots your see on forums. I suggest you start by deciding on a budget, that should determine which end of the market your looking at, and accept the limitations that will incur. Personally I started with a £150 used Nikon D3200 and a older Sigma 50-500 Zoom for £350 both purchased from a local CEX store. I have since traded them back as my budget and expectations moved forward.
Good luck and have fun !

 

[Crotal Bell]

Only you can answer that but you did originally ask about a pocketable camera to take pictures of birds and suchlike.

It sounds like you're developing gear acquisition syndrome (GAS) and that isn't always a good thing. I suggest you go out for a walk and think through what you really want to achieve.

I see your point, but the problem is based on my lack of experience. I could go for a walk but it won't teach me what camera will successfully achieve what I'm after. I assumed a large zoom compact would do the trick, however, I am learning all the time, and have read comments suggesting these are very limited by other internal factors, big zoom is not just a simple fix for close sharp images of birds and bunnies in the countryside. I am concerned by the GAS possibility, but, also worried that a zoom compact will leave me wishing I had pushed the boat out and got a "proper set up"

What annoys me is the You Tubers, they just want to show you max zoom all the time, without just taking nice various shots and illustrating what different cameras achieve.

 

[Cobra]

I had pushed the boat out and got a "proper set up"

And then your'll want a better set up.

I only know canon, so that's all I can tell you about.
the afore mentioned 18-55 is a very capable lens. The 75-300 is adequate.
So, if you say go for a canon 300D / 350D, ( crop sensor) both around £100 second hand its a good place to start.
(Check out MPB for prices)

But then you'd think I need more reach, I need a 100-400, MkI about £500 second hand.
The MKII is far superior, but that'll cost you around £1500 second hand.
Of course the sigma 150-600 is also a capable lens. Prices around £500 second hand, for the "Contemporary"
The "Sport" is more.

If you want to get into Macro, the canon 100mm 2.8is is the ultimate at around £850 new, and not much less second hand.
Or the manual focus MPE around £800 second hand.
Sigma do do a reasonably priced 105mm Macro lens.

And then you think to yourself, Hmmm I need a better body, there is a myriad of options available, there is crop or full frame sensor to consider.
( again check out MPB for prices and models) . ....

And this is what @AndrewFlannigan meant by "GAS"
You pay your money and you take your choice.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I see your point, but the problem is based on my lack of experience.

That's the nub of your problem.

You know what you don't know and you're faced with conflicting information. This is where you either...

• (a) throw up your hands and forget about the whole thing,
• (b) select a set of advice based on what seems best to you or
• (c) blindly jump in with the first thing that appeals to you.

None of these are actually bad options, because...

• (a) gives you a breathing space,
• (b) at least provides a direction from someone who (one hopes) knows what they're talking about, while
• (c) has the advantage that something about your choice appeals to you, which is never a bad thing.

Whatever decision you make, enjoy yourself.

 

[Kell]

The good news is, I think, there aren't many (if any) truly dreadful cameras any more.

The bad news is that it's still easy to take a great camera and take dreadful images.

But there is a world of difference between a compact and a DSLR plus a zoom lens.

As a comparison here's the moon pic that @AndrewFlannigan posted above next to one I took with a Canon 600d and an EF70-300 lens. Mines's quite a heavy crop. I suspect Andrew's is a severe crop. If you click the picture you can go to Flickr and see the image a little better. But there's no denying there's a tonne of additional detail in the one from the DSLR.

IMG_5828.crop by Kell Lunam-Cowan, on Flickr

The better news is that you don't have to spend a fortune to get set up with a very capable rig. Anything over 300mm is likely to cost you a lot more. But canon produce a cheaper - i.e. mostly plastic EF (so fits crop and FF cameras) 70-300. It's lightweight and easier to take places. In my experience, it's a better performer than the 75-300mm version

I did have one, but sold it when I upgraded to the 100-400. The extra reach is noticeable, but it is heavier, bulkier and far less likely to come with me on a walk.

this is the lens I used to have: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equi...canon-ef-70-300mm-f-4-5-6-is-usm/sku-1409345/ (they're cheaper on ebay)

A SH Canon 5D (classic) and an EF 70-300 lens should set you back about £350. And you don't even need to go for a full frame camera. I had a 20D which I bought for £50 and I loved it. Even though it was an older camera than my 600D, it somehow produced much cleaner images. I sold my 70-300mm lens for around £150. So you could be up and running for £200 with a pretty capable set up.

My 20D gallery: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmA7Zjww
My 5D Classic Gallery: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLUDi35
My 70-300 gallery: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWWVV9h

(PS - I set up these galleries for when i was selling each of those bits of kit - just haven't got around to deleting them.)

The next problem you might run into it is actually being able to utilise the tech. If you're going to get a DSLR and know nothing about photography, the best investment you could make is a camera course. Being able to understand and use shutter speed, aperture and ISO correctly on old tech will do more for your final results than buying a brand new camera and knowing nothing about how to make it go.

 

[Marino]

Get your hands on a second hand camera (seen a canon 1000d for80£) and a second hand lens, mpd, webx is two reputable websites for used equipment.
Don't overthink it, honestly just get your hands on a camera and see for your self what you need.
In the meantime you'll be having fun, also not worrying too much about you new expensive equipment.

 

[LG9K]

These two pics were taken one after the other, showing the same scene and the minimum and maximum (30x) zooms with my old Sony HX60.
The quality is pretty good for a beginner/casual photographer.

I have replaced it with an HX99 which is similar but has the added bonus that it will save photos in a raw format as well as jpg, so can be edited with better tools.

 

[woof woof]

I see your point, but the problem is based on my lack of experience. I could go for a walk but it won't teach me what camera will successfully achieve what I'm after. I assumed a large zoom compact would do the trick, however, I am learning all the time, and have read comments suggesting these are very limited by other internal factors, big zoom is not just a simple fix for close sharp images of birds and bunnies in the countryside. I am concerned by the GAS possibility, but, also worried that a zoom compact will leave me wishing I had pushed the boat out and got a "proper set up"

What annoys me is the You Tubers, they just want to show you max zoom all the time, without just taking nice various shots and illustrating what different cameras achieve.

I suppose a lot depends on how far you want to go and get into photography as a hobby and you'll need to decide how much you're going to spend and what you'll be happy carrying about and using.

I think with birds and bunnies even with a long lens you're going to have to be quite close to get the subject large in the frame and a lot of the time that isn't always easy. So that's one issue. Another issue is that although a DSLR may be a good and cost effective way of getting kit with some reach you may well have something like a 70-300 or 100-400mm lens, something like that, and you may love it but you might sometimes be a little frustrated at not being able to get a wider shot and if tempted to change to a 18-55mm you're into lens changes, possible sensor contamination and sensor cleaning and then of course there's post capture processing and possibly cloning out contamination, cropping etc.

One plus for a compact or a bridge is that you'll possibly have a wide zoom range readily available from shot to shot.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I suppose a lot depends on how far you want to go and get into photography as a hobby and you'll need to decide how much you're going to spend and what you'll be happy carrying about and using.

I think with birds and bunnies even with a long lens you're going to have to be quite close to get the subject large in the frame and a lot of the time that isn't always easy. So that's one issue. Another issue is that although a DSLR may be a good and cost effective way of getting kit with some reach you may well have something like a 70-300 or 100-400mm lens, something like that, and you may love it but you might sometimes be a little frustrated at not being able to get a wider shot and if tempted to change to a 18-55mm you're into lens changes, possible sensor contamination and sensor cleaning and then of course there's post capture processing and possibly cloning out contamination, cropping etc.

One plus for a compact or a bridge is that you'll possibly have a wide zoom range readily available from shot to shot.

Thanks buddy. This thread has been so helpful. It's starting to come together for me now. I think the compact option was probably not ideal, whereas the DSLR will be a potential world of equipment and a step too far. Middle for Diddle. I am swinging back to the one off payment for a nice bridge camera that will allow me to take a far better range of photos than my smartphone can., without breaking the bank.

 

[woof woof]

Thanks buddy. This thread has been so helpful. It's starting to come together for me now. I think the compact option was probably not ideal, whereas the DSLR will be a potential world of equipment and a step too far. Middle for Diddle. I am swinging back to the one off payment for a nice bridge camera that will allow me to take a far better range of photos than my smartphone can., without breaking the bank.

I think that's a fair and honest assessment but stay with my for a moment...

Sensor size and lens zoom range and quality could well come into this. Some bridge cameras have the same sized sensor as a the small sensor compact but they could still offer you better handling and possibly a better lens too but in a larger package. In your place I think I'd start by taking a look at 1" sensor bridge cameras as the image quality is likely to be a step up from the small sensor compacts and bridge cameras. If you find the prices too high then maybe look at a smaller sensor bridge.

For 1" sensor bridge cameras Panasonic and Sony make some of the front runners but there may be others I don't know about. There are a couple of threads about them on this site and maybe you can search for them or even better some of the contributors may provide links.

One thing I would advise you to do, well two things actually, read the manual and read up of the exposure triangle of aperture, shutter speed and ISO and perhaps tag depth of field and perspective onto the list of things to read up on.

Good luck choosing and I hope you'll come back and show us some of those bird and bunny pictures

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I am swinging back to the one off payment for a nice bridge camera that will allow me to take a far better range of photos than my smartphone can., without breaking the bank.

I think the bridge camera is your least bad option.

However I would avoid the expensive models until you've got more of a handle on your needs and wants. London Camera Exchange ( https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondha...Bridge+Cameras&SHModel=&Location=&Results=250 ) currently have a couple of Panasonic FZ18 cameras at £30. They're good, solid little cameras and at that price, they're almost throwaways. They also have a Panasonic FZ45 at £70, if you want something a little more sophisticated.

 

[gjhill]

I am awaiting a fz18 bought on the bay for £20 as grandsons first real camera

 

[TimHughes]

this is a slippery slope....tread carefully and understand that whatever you buy on a budget it's not going to produce those amazing images that you might have seen.