Continuous ink systems - Advice request

JeanieW

JeanieW

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I'm thinking of trying out a continuous ink system with my Canon printer as a means of saving some cash. I'm familiar with Lyson etc but these run into a couple of hundred pounds.
Now I know that generally you get what you pay for and so I'm guessing the cheaper systems (£30 - £80) are using much cheaper inks. Does anyone uses CIS systems with cheaper inks and if they do, what should I be looking out for and who do they recommend as a supplier?
I should add, I've been using compatible inks in cartridge form for years without problem but have kept within a few tried and trusted brands. So I guess I'm looking for pointers to tried and trusted brands for CIS inks as well as systems.
Any advice welcome.
 
Its a tricky one, because all the profiles for papers are mainly based on using OEM inks. I know Lyson offer profiles for their papers, but not sure about others, or are you looking at doing custom profiles?
 
:shrug: I don't really know much about profiles, let alone custom profiles. I think I'm going to have to read up on this stuff. Thanks for your imput, much appreciated.
 
Hi

I use one of the cheap eBay supplied CIS for my Epson 1400.

The full system cost about £45 and a full set of 100ml bottles of ink are about £15.

Never had any problems, I do write my own printer profiles though.

I was able to by the Spyder3 sytem for monitor & printer with the money saved.

One point to remember though, does your printer use Dye or Pigment ink.

CIS works better on Dye printers as the pigment can settle in ink tanks with pigment ink, its not an issue with dye.

Paul
 
Thanks for your reply Paul. My printer has 6 x Dye inks and a secondary black (pigment) for better quality text.
Can I push my luck and ask it you (or anyone else) could point me in the right direction of some 'easy to digest' info on printer profiles? There's obviously a lot more to this than I thought.:)
 
'easy to digest' info on printer profiles

Thats an oxymoron. LOL

I don't think I have ever seen anything written about colour mangement that is easy to read/digest.

Basicaly to get the best out of any printer it should be calibrated, even the manufacturers profiles can not be totaly accurate as every paper and ink batch is slightly different, which is one good point for CIS as you have a lot of ink to use so the batch is more consistent.

Profiling also allows you to play with different brands of paper and then find just how good say Jessops or Tesco Finest paper realy is.

I use the Spyder3 system for my prints and monitor and get very very good profiles, I can print totaly neutral black & white prints without a hint of cast, expensive but it works.

A cheaper option, if you have a good flatbed scanner is the Profile Prizm sytem.

You should get quite a few replies to this with other options.

Paul
 
I've been looking into this. I'm down to a choice of 2.

Fotospeed or Permajet.

Although the price sounds a lot (upwards of £200) when you consider that this includes a full set of inks, the real cost is much lower.

With each company you get FREE profiles for their papers which are some of the best on the market.

I'm leaning towards the Permajet one cause you get more ink in the starter setup (costs more but equates to about the same) and their quality papers are far more numerous.

I have a few of their fine art papers which offer amazing quality! Almost painting like.

Certainly make sure you have a calibrated monitor and you should find yourself printing works of art in no time....
 
The one I got for £45 included a full set of inks as well, its was all pre filled with 100ml of each colour so it was a real doddle to install. Some are supplied empty and can be a real PITA to get working. Don't know if they still are but Permajet used to supply there's empty.

One other thing to watch out for is make sure they are supplying the correct ink, Some of the better known makes supply Pigment ink on systems that should use dye. Also pigment is not the best choice for CIS as the pigment settles out in the ink holder as it is obviously not constantly shaken about like it is when in cartridges.

Admitedly no profiles supplied but for me that wasn't a problem as I was already using profile prizm before moving over to the spyder3 system.

Paul
 
I use a Fotospeed CIS dye ink system with my Epson 1400. I also use Fotospeed papers and have obtained (free) profiles from them as part of the deal. I usually buy my stuff from RK Photographic and have found them to be really helpful. You can visit and chat to them and/or buy online.

Had the system fro about two years and no problems.

Anthony.
 
Paul-H said:
The one I got for £45 included a full set of inks as well, its was all pre filled with 100ml of each colour so it was a real doddle to install. Some are supplied empty and can be a real PITA to get working. Don't know if they still are but Permajet used to supply there's empty.

One other thing to watch out for is make sure they are supplying the correct ink, Some of the better known makes supply Pigment ink on systems that should use dye. Also pigment is not the best choice for CIS as the pigment settles out in the ink holder as it is obviously not constantly shaken about like it is when in cartridges.

Admitedly no profiles supplied but for me that wasn't a problem as I was already using profile prizm before moving over to the spyder3 system.

Paul
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I would not choose anything other than pigment ink. It's the only choice for a pro.
 
A bit late coming in on this but I have an Epson 1270 with Lyson CIS supplied by Marrutt Digital. I use Lyson fine art papers and have had excellent results for several years of usage. Marrutt provide excellent customer service, they have never let me down in any respect I've never had any problems with the CIS.

Caroline
 
I can never understand why people pay £x000 on a camera body, £x0,000 on lenses and software to make the image look as good as it possibly can - and then print using some poor quality inks?

Guys seriously - I have tried many times with CISS (and spent a LOT of money in researching it). I've discussed in great lengths with suppliers, paper mills and colour profiling companies about them and the general feeling in our community is: stick with OEM. For the extra couple of pence per print - you'll likely have far fewer problems down the line :)

Just my 2p......
 
Lee - many professionals use a CIS. I've not done so yet but am thinking about it. If I was saving a few pence i wouldn't worry but doing a lot of printing on an A3 printer is VERY expensive compared to the savings of a CIS. I use the Permajet papers with my Epson inks and get amazing results. I may ask for a couple of prints with theirs to compare.

With printer profiles to match the ink/paper I have a feeling I'd be impressed with the results given all the feedback.
 
I'm with Lee on this one, genuine ink FTW. If you can get a profile to match the 3rd party ink with the paper you are using that would be a close second. for instance I'm sure Permajet will make sure that their ink works well with their papers. What you also need to consider is that if you wanted to change paper supplier you may be restricted by the lack of profiles.
 
Craikeybaby said:
I'm with Lee on this one, genuine ink FTW. If you can get a profile to match the 3rd party ink with the paper you are using that would be a close second.
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Only a close second to perhaps EM inks with a proper custom profile for the paper/ink you want to use.

I think a proper custom profile on a CIS system (from a reputable company) with their papers would likely beat OEM inks with a standard profile.

Craikeybaby said:
for instance I'm sure Permajet will make sure that their ink works well with their papers. What you also need to consider is that if you wanted to change paper supplier you may be restricted by the lack of profiles.
Click to expand...

You can get custom profiles for any paper from Permajet but to be honest if I buy their system I don't see me using another paper. The Permajet range is fantastic.
 
EOS_JD said:
I would not choose anything other than pigment ink. It's the only choice for a pro.
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I know disgusting isn't it

Fancy producing prints that only last 100 years when I ahould be using Pigment that last 300 years, I must go and hang my head in shame.

Mind you to be honest in all my years in Photography I personaly have seen more faded RA4 prints than I have seen faded digital prints, dye or pigment.
 
Dye inks do not weather the same in the same. You may get 100 years under certain conditions (like keeping your prints in a dark room or drawer).

One of my main gripes withDye inks is that they are not water proof. Lick your finger and drag it over your print or or put a droplet of water on your lovely big A3 print (dye ink) and watch as the water ruins your print. Do the same with a pigment ink and you will not get that. - that is why I changed to a pigment ink machine.

look at this.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/dye-pigment-metamerism.html


Whereas dyes are generally derived from organic compounds and deteriorate rapidly when exposed to UV light and other environmental factors, the colored particles used in pigment inks are inert and will require much longer to decompose or fade to any significant degree.
Click to expand...

Printer manufacturers have made strides in producing more stable dye inks, but for truly professional results, pigment inks are the way to go.
Click to expand...

http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00FV2F
Also not sure how accurate these results are but they are what I found them. having printed many images on Dye inks and now use Pigment I have found similar results from my own prints. A couple of years and dye inks faded badly yet the pigment ink prints are as good as the day I printed them!
 
I know my Dye-Subthermal printers give waterproof prints on Fuji Crystal paper.
I guess it depends if there's a "wet" or "dry" method in the printing.

Personally - I much prefer the quality from pigment based inks. Price is considerably higher, but there is something about them that makes them "sing" :)
 
I have a couple of dye-sub printers but these are very different to dye inks. THe dye sub also places a protective layer over your print making it water proof - givesd the look and fee of an image from your local quick lab.
 
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