Contrasty B&W. Black blacks, bright whites

Mahoneyd187

Mahoneyd187

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Danny
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Hey all,

At work so currently can't post an example of what I mean, but I think you'll get the idea.

I would like to try and get some more contrast out of my b&ws, in camera rather than just levels/curves.

I've read somewhere about underexposing the image, and developing longer?

My understanding of the development process is very basic, is this statement correct?

Thanks all for your time

Danny
 
Yes process is very basic, it's called push processing, underexpose and compensate by increasing development time.
A 400 film pushed to 1600 or 3200 will do the job nicely.

Just as easy to do in photoshop, but loads more fun doing it properly :)
 
I pushed some Fuji Neopan 1600 to 3200 for a gig and it was very contrasty, I may have overdone the developing by just bunging 3 mins on the std development but the negs were very black and white:

Scan-110113-0022.jpg


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They printed without the grain, that is a scanning artefact I'm afraid. I think I printed at a grade 2 to get a similar amount of contrast out of the negs.
 
Push processing will give increased contrast but with severly increased grain.

You can also get more contrast by using a slower more contrasty film Pan F (50 iso) and even more so if you use a wratten 25A red filter. Just using the red filter with any film will increase its contrast.

If you are planning on using mono film a lot, you could do a lot worse that getting a set of three wratten filters yellow 8 (+1 stop), orange 21 (+2 stops) & red 25A (+3 stops).

If you use Pan F with a deep red filter (ISO 6) then I guarantee you will have very contrasty negatives. Underexpose it to ISO 3 and up the processing to suit and they will almost be like Lith Film.
 
Thanks all for the input so far :)

Can someone provide me with a simple example if I was to try push processing with the acros 100 I'm currently shooting? Like if I expose it at ISO 50,or 80 for example, how much would the dev time need to be increased?

I'm going to be developing my film myself from now on, black and white anyway, so it's all very new to me :)
 
For the processing times, just check the massive dev chart. Can't really give specific times etc, as it varies with the developer you'll be using. Basically, chuck the film type and developer into the search box and it'll come up with times for processing at various strengths of the dev. AND also in some cases, times for Push/Pull processing. Some dev's won't be quoted, as they're not really suitable for that kind of processing work. If you haven't already bought the chemicals, perhaps do a check against your prospective buys to see if they're suitable for push/pull processing on the film you like?

I'd also go along with Ed's recommendation to try filters... I seldom shoot anything on B&W without a yellow filter on the lens - only time it comes off is to swap for a orange or red really :LOL: Oh - and orange filters can be great for loosing freckles on portraits ;)
 
EdBray said:
If you are planning on using mono film a lot, you could do a lot worse that getting a set of three wratten filters yellow 8 (+1 stop), orange 21 (+2 stops) & red 25A (+3 stops).
Click to expand...

And a green filter as their good for skin tones because they make freckles and other red/orange details less prominant.
 
I was going to rant about getting rid of freckles and then my train of thought ended up with lovely ginger girls with freckles and now I have calmed down far too much to get angry! ;)
 
s162216 said:
And a green filter as their good for skin tones because they make freckles and other red/orange details less prominant.
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Sorry, that is incorrect, a green filter will lighten greens and darken oranges and reds, so gives skin tones a darker feel but also freckles would be more prominent with a green filter.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Thanks all for the input so far :)

Can someone provide me with a simple example if I was to try push processing with the acros 100 I'm currently shooting? Like if I expose it at ISO 50,or 80 for example, how much would the dev time need to be increased?

I'm going to be developing my film myself from now on, black and white anyway, so it's all very new to me :)
Click to expand...

You are going the wrong way, that's pull processing.
Expose at 200, 400 or 800 so you underexpose the 100 film and compensate by increasing development time.
Like all things film, forums won't really answer your question, try and test film yourself, you may be surprised by the results.
For example I used to find Neopan 400 pushed 2 stops in tmax developer was better than Neopan 1600. just did by trial and error comparing the results with HP5+ (horrible at all speeds) and TRI-X.
 
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EdBray said:
Sorry, that is incorrect, a green filter will lighten greens and darken oranges and reds, so gives skin tones a darker feel but also freckles would be more prominent with a green filter.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I got my filters mixed up. Thinking about it now I can't see why I wrote that!
 
Edtog said:
For example I used to find Neopan 400 pushed 2 stops in tmax developer was better than Neopan 1600. just did by trial and error comparing the results with HP5+ (horrible at all speeds) and TRI-X.
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i used to like you mr ed ,,but now i don't :razz:
 
Contrast is the difference between black and white - yes?

Yes! push and pull are processess for times when there is no alternative. Yes you can experiment for fun and learn but, if you value your photography and pictures as a once only chance to capture that moment, why risk your work?

I would advise you to learn which developer and film suit you and your style and work flow consistently and stick with it i.e. perfecting through working at it.

Box speed Fuji Neopan 400 @ 400 on a baking hot June day in the harshest of light (why pull why push why 100 why 50 etc)

5904189274_75f395f41b_b.jpg
 
I'd definitely advise with going for filters to achieve your desired contrast rather than push/pull developing. I'd only do that where the light dictates that rather than to achieve an effect that can be done with filters.
 
Ok brilliant thanks for the advice guys.

So...recommendations for filters please?

My mamiya lens has a 77mm thread, or should I go for a lee filter system thing?
 
I use the lee system with my RZ as I can easily change filters for what I want. Dont have the numbers on me at the moment but for people I tend to use a yellow or orange, occasionaly a red.

This was done with a orange filter.

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Mart
 
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You could of course just buy some screw in filters for now, you can get a decent quality yellow or orange filter for not very much these days. There is always the Cokin system which is quite a bit cheaper than the Lee.
 
Look at Hi-Tech filters as an alternative to the Lee system.
 
Just come across the Kood P system. Looks like a copy of Cokin filter system?

Any good?
 
EdBray said:
Sorry, that is incorrect, a green filter will lighten greens and darken oranges and reds, so gives skin tones a darker feel but also freckles would be more prominent with a green filter.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ed, I was nearly worried there for a moment...
 
I personally wouldn't use the Kood P system, some parts are quite poorly made. I have one of their filter holders and within 5 minutes of me using it the little bit thats designed to stop the filter rotating freely unless you disengage it, broke. This makes it a little hard to keep the filter straight. The filters for all I know might be fine, Cokin ND filters are notorious for having slight magenta colour cast for example whilst most say Kood ones are fine. I would get a Cokin P holder and adapter rings and get the filters from someone else.

You might want to look at SRB griturns own range, despite that you may think they would be rubbish as their own brand, their ND grads set that I ordered from them turned out to actually be made by Hi - Tech filters and are very good.

http://www.srb-griturn.com/srb-individual-square-filters-103-c.asp
 
Yeah sod it I'm just going to go for the Cokin set and see how I get on, if it's a pile of **** I'll just send it back :)

Or D&B in post as I mentioned, I'm not adverse to it so why the hell not :p
 
If you are buying contrast filters the Cokins will be more than adequate, the only problem with them is the colour cast on their grads.
 
Edtog said:
Sorry really tried to like HP5 but could never get it anywhere near looking as good as Herbie Knott did.
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Strangely enough, I could never get on with HP5 either, I like the other two standard Ilford films Pan F and FP4+ but for ISO 400 it's Tri X all the way.
 
So far I've only tried Tmax 400 and Acros 100, love both, but I've just bought 2x rolls of Trix 400 and 10 rolls of delta 100 to try :)
 
Something you'll soon come to realise Danny is that filters do something D&B doesn't. D&B does local changes, filters will change the whole dynamic of a photo. Sure, you might be able to do the same with D&B but it'll take you so long to achieve the same effect you'll never get to shoot another roll of film!

Trust me, filters are the future;)
 
Kev M said:
Something you'll soon come to realise Danny is that filters do something D&B doesn't. D&B does local changes, filters will change the whole dynamic of a photo. Sure, you might be able to do the same with D&B but it'll take you so long to achieve the same effect you'll never get to shoot another roll of film!

Trust me, filters are the future;)
Click to expand...

I'll grab a cokin set and do some comparisons :)

I'm going to be home devving for the first time too, so a very experimental week I feel lol
 
EdBray said:
Strangely enough, I could never get on with HP5 either, I like the other two standard Ilford films Pan F and FP4+ but for ISO 400 it's Tri X all the way.
Click to expand...

Disappointing thing is FP4+ is possibly the best film ever made, shame they didn't get the 400 version anywhere near as good.
Suppose it was the same with Kodak, Plus X was never as good as TRI-X.
 
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