Tutorial Copyrights/Law and other info about photos

can anyone give me some advice!!!!!

We are looking to get the photos of our wedding from our photographer on cd as we would like to use these images as we like but, we are not sure how much would be a fiar price for this! Can anyone gives us figures?

There are 120 images and we have paid for her services and have the pictures on a slideshow!!!

Please help!!
 
Hi All.

Long time lurker here.

Basically I went to a motorcross track the other day and am confused by the whole scenario.

I took several photo's and posted them on my Flickr. A friend of mine saw them and told his mate about them as his mate was the rider in several of the images.

Now where do I stand as his friend is asking if I have any more pics of him (I don't, just wanted to know for future reference!)

The track is private (free to watch-don't know if that makes a difference)
I was just shooting everyone, no-one in particular.

Photography is not my source of income, but what if I sold him the images of himself?

Can anybody help?

Thanks
 
Not sure what you mean? If he wants images and you want to charge there is no issue. If you are only charging a few pounds and you are doing this as a one off the tax man probably isnt interested.
 
EOS_JD said:
Not sure what you mean? If he wants images and you want to charge there is no issue. If you are only charging a few pounds and you are doing this as a one off the tax man probably isnt interested.
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Thanks.

Basically do I need permission off this rider to take his picture? even though I didn't intentionally go there to photograph him (so it's not a modelling shoot for example)

And is there any issue about it being a private track? or does that not matter.

Thanks for your reply.
Joe
 
joetaylor666 said:
Thanks.

Basically do I need permission off this rider to take his picture? even though I didn't intentionally go there to photograph him (so it's not a modelling shoot for example)

And is there any issue about it being a private track? or does that not matter.

Thanks for your reply.
Joe
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you're talking about a model release - an no, in uk law you dont have to have one.

the only issue with regard to it being a private track is whether you were there legally and had permission to take pics ?
 
This here is an interesting read on the cost to produce work & the frustration felt when a photograph is stolen/taken without permission → LINK
 
RobertPattinson said:
I have a question about the copyright of wedding photos.
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in the UK they are usually copyright to the photographer with usage licenced to the B&G , though this will vary depending on the contract between tog and clients.

If that doesnt answer your question its probably best to ask it :LOL:, as our powers of telepathy are weak until after jaffa cake elevenses are served ;)
 
joetaylor666 said:
Thanks.

Basically do I need permission off this rider to take his picture? even though I didn't intentionally go there to photograph him (so it's not a modelling shoot for example)

And is there any issue about it being a private track? or does that not matter.

Thanks for your reply.
Joe
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No the images are yours however the copyright of usage on private land (did they have rules) may prevent you selling/using the image.
 
I have a complex situation at the moment in regards to me using some images I had taken.

First and briefly I was taken on, on a self employed basis within a company to take their Portraits for them in a studio, I had no contract apart from a piece of paper I signed to say I was self employed within this company and had to pay my own tax, national insurance and was not entitled to sick pay.

I had to provide my own camera and memory cards for the position also. And had signed nothing in relation to the copyright of the images.

The owner had noticed I used the images I had taken with my own camera from the studio and put them on my own website and was not happy at all and told me to delete my website. Her anger and actions led me to leave the company.

I do not want to sell the images on I just want to use these images on my website.

A few nasty texts and threats later have lead me to want to take some form of action. But I don't know what to do?

One of her messages included this on my social network page with its visibility to my customers, friends and family:

"(my name) delete all of these photographs that belong (company name) as this is fraud..... you are not a credible photographer if you steal another companies work
and do not have written consent.

(their name and company name)"

I have since noticed one of our old ads on a daily deals website, saying "Photographer retains copyright." under the fine print.

Where should I go from here? Your help would be much appreciated!
 
firstly if you are contemplating or subject to court action get legal advice from a lawyer not a photography forum !

secondly if nothing is signed in relation to copyright and usage the copyright 'usually' remains with the photographer - however if you were employed/commisioned the copyright might rest with the employer - this needs to be clarified urgently (see point v1 above)

thirdly if this might wind up in court don't make any further comment about it in writing to the other party, or in the public domain (such as forums) without making a clear "without predjudice' statement

and fourthly regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case they don't have a right to harras you via social media , so get a screenshot as future evidence, then ask the social networking site concerned to delete the comment, and I would suggest changing your privacy permissions to block them from making a further comment
 
indiepixie said:
I have a complex situation at the moment in regards to me using some images I had taken.

First and briefly I was taken on, on a self employed basis within a company to take their Portraits for them in a studio, I had no contract apart from a piece of paper I signed to say I was self employed within this company and had to pay my own tax, national insurance and was not entitled to sick pay.

I had to provide my own camera and memory cards for the position also. And had signed nothing in relation to the copyright of the images.

The owner had noticed I used the images I had taken with my own camera from the studio and put them on my own website and was not happy at all and told me to delete my website. Her anger and actions led me to leave the company.

I do not want to sell the images on I just want to use these images on my website.

A few nasty texts and threats later have lead me to want to take some form of action. But I don't know what to do?

One of her messages included this on my social network page with its visibility to my customers, friends and family:

"(my name) delete all of these photographs that belong (company name) as this is fraud..... you are not a credible photographer if you steal another companies work
and do not have written consent.

(their name and company name)"

I have since noticed one of our old ads on a daily deals website, saying "Photographer retains copyright." under the fine print.

Where should I go from here? Your help would be much appreciated!
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Firstly point her to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

Copyright is one of the few things that you actually require a written contract for in order for it to be passed over to someone else from the original holder; as you were freelance then that rats with you.

If she continues to pursue you in public, firstly direct her to the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and if this fails report the matter to the police complete with all documentary evidence of the crime; ie copies of all texts, online messages and any written correspondence.
 
Can I ask, if you attend a parade such as a St George's day or Notting Hill carnival, or a classic car run and take shots - do you need release forms, do the "Subjects" have rights over their images taken, if for example I was interested in selling them commercially?

Thanks in advance, I am new here!
 
You can sell the images - however there are some restrictions that would mean that generally you would be better with a model release if the person is easily identifiable.

Really just depends on what you propose to do with the images
 
Jim,

Thanks. I shot a St George's parade this weekend and have edited the images but it will be hard to track each individual down and ask permission. The Hells Angel chapter might be easy to track though.....

you mentioned restrictions in you post is there somewhere I can read up on them - say an idiots guide for a beginner?

Is there a good model release form that you use? I have Googled but there are so many different versions I am a tad confused!

Is it best practise then, when shooting a street parade / classic car run to carry the forms at the time and ask for release whilst on site?

I am thinking we have the Jubilee coming up so and the opportunities are endless but a tad put off shooting say a street party then.

Thank you for your advice it is really appreciated.
 
What are you usigh the images for? If it's to sell to advertisers then you may require the MR but if not and you are just selling to the participants then you'll be fine without one.

I actually don't have a model release! Been on my todo list for a while but never needed it - I don't plan to use commercially, other than to promote myself.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/
 
Jim,

thanks for the help so far - its all a new venture for me.

I was thinking of putting a proposal together for the local business association that put the parade on and do a fundraiser 2013 calender for them as well as using them to promote my work.

Thanks for the link to the document - I will study it in great depth.

Have a great week.
 
I think you would be ok without model release for promoting that event and you can use the images to promote yourself.
 
Tricky01 said:
The copywrite stuff really interests me but also scares me a reasonable amount too! I'm only an amateur but enjoy taking photos at events I go to such as Wimbledon, Wembley and a recent trip to Battersea Powerstation for the X-fighters.

I believe that as I'm paying to enter - and so not open to the public as such - I can only publsih the images for non-commercial purposes. I've uploaded the better ones to flickr and got a lot of interest in images of Federer at Wimbledon on day one. Some small websites have used my images - is this allowed? Are "news" websites commercial?

I really want to share my images and flattered to get them published online, but am I in breach of any rules?

Wimlbedon's admittance to Wimbledon guidelines state:

Still photographs, film, videotape or other audio-visual material recorded within the Grounds may not be sold or used commercially in any way whatsoever unless authorised by the AELTC and may be confiscated by the Club if such sale or commercial use is suspected.

http://aeltc2010.wimbledon.org/en_GB/about/tickets/conditions_entry.html
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I don't know if this has been answered due to the number of posts in this section but, when you pay to enter any building, ground or other place it becomes public and the same copyright law applies as it does in any other public place.

Wimbledon or any other ground can not assume any privacy in any area which is 'designated' pubic by way of charging a fee for entrance to that area.

If you took any photographs in a 'restricted' area ie changing areas, areas marked as 'private' or having 'no entry' signs you would be under the rules such as those stated by Wimbledon.
 
dkh said:
I don't know if this has been answered due to the number of posts in this section but, when you pay to enter any building, ground or other place it becomes public and the same copyright law applies as it does in any other public place.

Wimbledon or any other ground can not assume any privacy in any area which is 'designated' pubic by way of charging a fee for entrance to that area.

If you took any photographs in a 'restricted' area ie changing areas, areas marked as 'private' or having 'no entry' signs you would be under the rules such as those stated by Wimbledon.
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That's completely wrong I'm afraid. It's classed as private property with public access and as such you are bound by the terms and conditions of entry. Copyright law has nothing to do with it. The law of trespass applies; ie the terms of the licence which allows you on to the property in the first place.
 
DemiLion said:
That's completely wrong I'm afraid. It's classed as private property with public access and as such you are bound by the terms and conditions of entry. Copyright law has nothing to do with it. The law of trespass applies; ie the terms of the licence which allows you on to the property in the first place.
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Correct
 
That's interesting because I was a special constable and in the training we were advised that if a security guard required someone to be cautioned due to photographing an event as a paid guest we should tell the security guard that the individual is well within their rights ?
 
dkh said:
That's interesting because I was a special constable and in the training we were advised that if a security guard required someone to be cautioned due to photographing an event as a paid guest we should tell the security guard that the individual is well within their rights ?
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Poor training, or more likely poor memory, then.

The T&Cs of entry govern what you can and cannot do. If they state that photography is banned, the the security guard is well within his right to cause the offending person to be removed.
 
dkh said:
That's interesting because I was a special constable and in the training we were advised that if a security guard required someone to be cautioned due to photographing an event as a paid guest we should tell the security guard that the individual is well within their rights ?
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If the ticket stipulates no photrography, the unauthorised photographer can be asked to leave. The can't caution anyone for taking photos! It's not a crime.

It's like eating sweets in the cinema! Only more likely to get caught.
 
DemiLion said:
Poor training, or more likely poor memory, then.

The T&Cs of entry govern what you can and cannot do. If they state that photography is banned, the the security guard is well within his right to cause the offending person to be removed.
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Yes removed - not cautioned :)

Also they cannot ask for the images to be deleted. I've had that from a security guy once demand I deleted images I'd taken. I refused and I asked him to call the police - then he gave up!

Any images you take are yours (even if qained where you should not be shooting). You just can't use or show them anywhere.
 
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dkh said:
I don't know if this has been answered due to the number of posts in this section but, when you pay to enter any building, ground or other place it becomes public and the same copyright law applies as it does in any other public place.

Wimbledon or any other ground can not assume any privacy in any area which is 'designated' pubic by way of charging a fee for entrance to that area.

If you took any photographs in a 'restricted' area ie changing areas, areas marked as 'private' or having 'no entry' signs you would be under the rules such as those stated by Wimbledon.
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Wow, good luck to you with that.

It's a private place. On entry you agreed to certain rules. Break them and you are committing trespass.
 
When you pay to enter a ground building etc,it does NOT become public:wacky:

You can only enter by agreeing to the terms. Although if you break them its not tresspass either!
 
EOS_JD said:
When you pay to enter a ground building etc,it does NOT become public:wacky:

You can only enter by agreeing to the terms. Although if you break them its not tresspass either!
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Yup it is. It becomes Trespass Ab Initio.
 
DemiLion said:
Yup it is. It becomes Trespass Ab Initio.
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I'm not sure it is because the act of taking a photo is not "unlawful". It may breach the terms of entry but that is a different matter.
Although there may be ocassions where Trespass Ab Initio could be used in the case of say someone inviting a photographer into their home under express terms not to take an image and they do.... Sound similar but different situations I believe.

A solicitor I'm sure would enjoy the argument
 
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test, sorry to hijack your post. I am barred from some areas and I do not know why. I was just testing to see if it was global.
 
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DemiLion said:
That's completely wrong I'm afraid. It's classed as private property with public access and as such you are bound by the terms and conditions of entry. Copyright law has nothing to do with it. The law of trespass applies; ie the terms of the licence which allows you on to the property in the first place.
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I agree , although strictly speaking its not even "with public access" , because access is limited to those by invitation ie with tickets

edit : arse didnt notice the date on the ressurected thread

2nd edit - mark is right about the trespass issue - this used to come up a lot when i was a rights of way officer , ussually arround people cycling/horse riding on permissive paths where the permission is only for pedestrian access. The action doesnt have to be unlawful per se , as simple trespass is a civil not criminal act - if you trespass while commiting an unlawful act it can in some cases become agravated or armed trespass which are criminal acts
 
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I had a picture on flickr. A design company asked for the use of it for a web site for a building company. i said that it would obviously cost. I didn't hear from them again. A few months later I googled the name of the image and found it on the front page of a builders web site. I screen grabbed it and the sent an invoice to the builders for £200. I also wrote a few follow up letters and emails. all have been ignored; the photo was removed. That was two years ago. Any advice would be welcome, including how I would present this in a small claims court. Can I claim against the design company also.

On another note: is there such a thing as plagiarisim in photography.
Cheers
 
prints15 said:
I had a picture on flickr. A design company asked for the use of it for a web site for a building company. i said that it would obviously cost. I didn't hear from them again. A few months later I googled the name of the image and found it on the front page of a builders web site. I screen grabbed it and the sent an invoice to the builders for £200. I also wrote a few follow up letters and emails. all have been ignored; the photo was removed. That was two years ago. Any advice would be welcome, including how I would present this in a small claims court. Can I claim against the design company also.

On another note: is there such a thing as plagiarisim in photography.
Cheers
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You can't enforce the invoice in a small claims court because no contract exists between you and the builder to provide an image in the first place, therefore the invoice while useful to demonstrate attempted resolution is not enforecable (I'd also suggest that £200 for one web usage is too high)

Your options are either

a) file it under lifes too short and forget about it

b) seek resolution in the small claims track of the patents court for copyright violation.

Plaigarism would suggest they had exactly copied your photo - it can happen as with the colour popped london bus case, but it isnt germane here
 
EOS_JD said:
If the ticket stipulates no photrography, the unauthorised photographer can be asked to leave.
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No. The rules need to be known before the ticket is bought otherwise it's an after the fact term which is not valid.

i.e. you cannot apply extra terms after entering into a contract. Buying the ticket constitutes entering into a contract therefore the terms and conditions must be known before the ticket is handed over and money changes hands.


Steve.
 
I agree actually. I should have said if the terms of purchase of the ticket stipulate no photography.....
 
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