D750 Issues and Panamoz & Nikon Customer Service Experience

chuckles said:
I'm wondering if some inscrutable rascals are somehow smuggling out QA failures then selling them on cheap to the Grey exporters.

I love a conspiracy theory me! :)
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It's possible of course, though no more so in Hong Kong than anywhere else I would venture to say ... but why especially would they, they can sell cheaper because of how they get the camera to you and with cheaper prices a 3-year warranty (at least 12 months more than Nikon standard) and first class service (Panamoz reports) they get a good customer base.
 
gramps said:
It's possible of course, though no more so in Hong Kong than anywhere else I would venture to say ... but why especially would they, they can sell cheaper because of how they get the camera to you and with cheaper prices a 3-year warranty (at least 12 months more than Nikon standard) and first class service (Panamoz reports) they get a good customer base.
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True.

Do they get the camera cheaper than the Official importer (Nikon UK/Europe in this case)?

But then these guys are still in it to make money. So their buying-in will be cheaper than their sales (well, I'd like to think so otherwise I have less business sense than I thought I had)
 
chuckles said:
True.

Do they get the camera cheaper than the Official importer (Nikon UK/Europe in this case)?

But then these guys are still in it to make money. So their buying-in will be cheaper than their sales (well, I'd like to think so otherwise I have less business sense than I thought I had)
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Well let's keep it local then ... Nikon D750 Camera Body

HDEW in the UK £1050:00 inc 3-year warranty.
Clfton Cameras £1475:00 inc 2-year warranty.

£425:00 cheaper to buy from HDEW in the UK than an Official Nikon Appointed Seller, plus you get an extra years warranty (repairs being done at a Nikon approved repairer or even by Nikon themselves).

So what does the Official Nikon Appointed Seller provide that HDEW doesn't?
 
gramps said:
So what does the Official Nikon Appointed Seller provide that HDEW doesn't?
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Hmmm.... I really don't want to get involved in a debate over 'Grey' imports.

I will accept, however, that Nikon appear to have failed to a degree here. They have a case to answer for sure - and I don't think I've disputed that. I've only ever dealt with them as an NPS member so I've never used them on a 'regular Punter basis'.
 
chuckles said:
Hmmm.... I really don't want to get involved in a debate over 'Grey' imports.
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Not intended, just trying to deal with the issue of why you think cheaper could indicate fake :)
 
As for hookey cameras, I have bought three D750 from Panamoz and with each one I was allowed to register on Nikon UK website. Although they won't be covered as such by them, as was the case with Fuji cameras I have bought from Panamoz, which I also registered with Fuji UK.

If they were hookey, the serial numbers wouldn't be on the system as such and allow for registering on Nikon and Fuji websites?

After spending a good while of my working life in manufacturing, from my experiences sub standard products get re-worked in the factory until they reach the desired quality. In the case of cameras, you would think, they would strip and re-use the un-affected QC rejected parts.

If you want to get things out of the back door, you would think they would take the " Good Cameras" as they will give the better return. There were often new knock off stuff down this way when Sony, Panasonic, Orion etc........ had a presence in the area.

Anyway, for Panamoz and DR, probably their turnover of gear must be huge and supply of hookey equipment would be hard to supply there needs?
 
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StewartR said:
Do you really want to have that debate, or are you just trolling? I'm sure you know the answer.
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Your rude response in no way reflects the intention of my question ... see post #46
 
minnnt said:
Well my experience is very different. Each to their own.
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So you have presumably never had dealings with John Lewis? Amazon UK? Apple? Waitrose? M&S?

I've even had the choice of an instant replacement or full refund in my local Tesco Extra...
 
@Swanseajack I wasn't thinking so much fake but 'fiddled' through the system so as to escape QC rejection and yet remain as a bonafide item - later re-appearing and palmed through a wholesaler. Hey, I'm talking about locations which are not European - their whole ethos may be suspect.

One of the reasons I don't fancy having them build a nuclear power station here :exit:

Forget me - my mind went on a ludicrous excursion. ;)
 
Dave1 said:
So you have presumably never had dealings with John Lewis? Amazon UK? Apple? Waitrose? M&S?

I've even had the choice of an instant replacement or full refund in my local Tesco Extra...
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I tried to take an uncooked chicken back to M&S once as I'd mistakenly picked up a plain one and wanted the lemon and herb seasoned one but they refused to exchange it let alone give me a full refund...

Having said that, I've never tried to return a chicken to Panamoz so perhaps they too would frown upon it.
 
minnnt said:
I tried to take an uncooked chicken back to M&S once as I'd mistakenly picked up a plain one and wanted the lemon and herb seasoned one but they refused to exchange it let alone give me a full refund...

Having said that, I've never tried to return a chicken to Panamoz so perhaps they too would frown upon it.
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Ah, the final refuge of someone who suddenly realises that perhaps their earlier comment was on the stupid side of the line, a little "humour" to try and pretend it's all a joke...

Why not try and return something that isn't likely to have a health issue with its replacement and then perhaps you would have a valid comparison to the service from Panamoz that you seem to think can't be bettered by UK dealers.

It's actually pretty easy to get better service than that from a small Hong Kong "importer", and your OTT gushing was quite distasteful to those UK retailers who do try and show excellent service.
 
I would be interested in seeing Nikon's reply - and although you've had a headache - I'm pleased that Panamoz has given good customer service. No need for comparisons here there and everywhere - this thread is about a Nikon - purchased from Panamoz. The progress - and the outcomes. Not the pros and cons of buying here or there as these threads always seem to descend into.
 
Tried to return 80% of a failed batch of LED lightbulbs to a major supplier a while back, they refused to accept them despite all having failed within 6 weeks ... fortunately I had paid by Paypal and was able to make a successful though protracted claim ... and don't start me on PC World!
 
Haha, you need to chill out mate.

I've had pretty poor service from Jessops in the past. On two occasions actually. Once when I'd ordered some goods, had the email to say they were available, rang the shop to double check, turned up and one of the assistants had sold one of the items. Brill.

Second was with a Sigma 50mm lens. Was really soft wide open so took it back the following day for a refund and although they give it all the big 'no quibble this' 'no problem that' BS on their website and receipts, the assistant was less than helpful. Basically had to refuse to leave the shop until i had the refund before he agreed.

Never had anything but great customer service from both DR and Panamoz. Even Expedite Electronics for that matter and they're less well known.

Is that ok for you sir?
 
minnnt said:
I've had pretty poor service from Jessops in the past. On two occasions actually.
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Goes back and checks post....


I don't see Jessops being mentioned, are you confusing them with John Lewis because both start with a J?
 
minnnt said:
I never mentioned any shop names, maybe you should go and check again... I said uk retailers...
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I'm talking about my post, I listed a number of UK retailers that offered excellent customer service, Jessops wasn't on the list...

minnnt said:
Exactly. Knowing I'm saving £400 and buying from a reputable grey dealer is good with me. Others seem perfectly happy buying their camera gear from Waitrose.
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If you want to start getting sarcastic, actually others are perfectly happy buying their camera gear without breaking the law by evading tax and smuggling goods from a two-bit dealer dealing from a room in an apartment block in Hong Kong.
 
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And i sometimes do 31mph in a 30... :oops: :$

Anyway, apologies to Phil for wrecking your thread mate. Glad the two bit illegal grey market HK dealer sorted it for you when Nikon UK failed.

Hope it hasn't put you off too much, it's a great camera once you get to know it. (y)
 
i sent my D700 to nikon for a service and change of the rubber grip that was coming lose,they fixed and cleaned it to perfection in a week (they said it would take that long) kept me informed on the process and returned it on time in absolutely mint condition. i am now a nps member so can only assume next time will be even quicker.:nikon: i do however get the impression that because it was a "grey" they may not have been so helpful just my opinion. cheers mike.
 
Dave1 said:
It is, yes. Some people have morals and try and abide by the laws of the country, others are immoral and do things like this.

Lots of lols...
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I can assure you that my tax bill is substantially more than many multi billion pound companies operating in this country - that is laughable.

I assume that you wouldn't support any aforementioned corporations due to their immoral operation? e.g. Amazon
 
Phil789 said:
I can assure you that my tax bill is substantially more than many multi billion pound companies operating in this country - that is laughable.

I assume that you wouldn't support any aforementioned corporations due to their immoral operation? e.g. Amazon
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I would call you an attention seeking liar if you are saying you paid more than £11 million in tax last year, but let's believe you and say "so what?"

I'm glad you feel the need to lie boast about your income.

Amazon pay the tax the current government demands from them, it isn't immoral (or illegal) to avoid tax, it's immoral (and illegal) to evade tax. With regard to Amazon I'm more annoyed that this current bunch of clowns in government (as well as those who preceded them) don't rewrite the tax laws to prevent the loopholes, as long as they are legal the companies will do what they can to use them.
 
Dave1 said:
I would call you an attention seeking liar if you are saying you paid more than £11 million in tax last year, but let's believe you and say "so what?"

I'm glad you feel the need to lie boast about your income.

Amazon pay the tax the current government demands from them, it isn't immoral (or illegal) to avoid tax, it's immoral (and illegal) to evade tax. With regard to Amazon I'm more annoyed that this current bunch of clowns in government (as well as those who preceded them) don't rewrite the tax laws to prevent the loopholes, as long as they are legal the companies will do what they can to use them.
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No, that is not what I was saying (or intended to say, at least), although an example of where that is actually the case would be Facebook.

I pay a minimum of 20% tax on my income - what is the UK Corporation tax rate? In 2013 for example, Amazon paid 0.1% tax.

Now that may be legal, through loopholes as you point out, but just because it is legal, does that make it moral?

You clearly don't agree with the loopholes that are in place, but I suspect you don't mind supporting the companies that use them anyway because it is convenient for you. I am just trying to work out the moral high ground you appear to be preaching from.
 
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@Phil789

No, I'm pragmatic, every business in the UK tries to pay the minimum tax they legally can, that's why they have accountants employed, I would suggest even a one man band photographer or plumber makes sure they use every possible legal tax break they can. It's up to the government to write the tax laws to prevent any tax breaks or legal loopholes they don't want used, but until they do so you cannot condemn an accountant for doing his job as the law allows. That isn't the same thing as a smuggler using illegal methods to evade their tax or duty owed.

If anyone is to blame for the low tax thresholds paid by Amazon, Vodafone, Starbucks etc it is the office of Mr George Osborne.

Edit to add:

I see that Amazon is beginning to use more normal tax procedures so perhaps the Treasury and HMRC are starting to do a better job.

Amazon has started to pay taxes on sales to its UK customers in Britain rather than in Luxembourg, in a climbdown after accusations that it avoided tax in its third largest market. Amazon’s low tax structure, which has sparked intense controversy in the last three years, was overhauled at the beginning of this month and the company is making similar moves elsewhere in Europe?

Amazon has set up a London branch of its main Luxembourg retail company, which — from May 1 — is now responsible for booking sales from UK customers.

The move will allow HM Revenue & Customs to tax the profits associated with those sales, which in the past were mostly out of reach.

Full story at http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fa80a40-00b0-11e5-a908-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3rCCUMdhn
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Dave1 said:
@Phil789

No, I'm pragmatic, every business in the UK tries to pay the minimum tax they legally can, that's why they have accountants employed, I would suggest even a one man band photographer or plumber makes sure they use every possible legal tax break they can. It's up to the government to write the tax laws to prevent any tax breaks or legal loopholes they don't want used, but until they do so you cannot condemn an accountant for doing his job as the law allows. That isn't the same thing as a smuggler using illegal methods to evade their tax or duty owed.

If anyone is to blame for the low tax thresholds paid by Amazon, Vodafone, Starbucks etc it is the office of Mr George Osborne.

Edit to add:

I see that Amazon is beginning to use more normal tax procedures so perhaps the Treasury and HMRC are starting to do a better job.
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Right - so allow me then, if I may, to summarise the points you have put forward.

Due to loopholes in the law, it is totally fine (and moral, on your basis), for huge corporations to pay a negligible amount of tax (case in point of Amazon at 0.1%), and you are quite happy to continue supporting such activities.

All the while, you find it morally outrageous for the "little guy" to potentially save a couple of hundred quid on his camera. And I say potentially, because you seem to assume everyone buying grey is dodging tax.

From your FT quote you posted above - read it very carefully. Do you really believe that is a result of HMRC doing a better job, or do you think it is more to do with the "intense controversy" and amount of flack they were getting over it, from the many, many people who do not share your opinion, and don't believe those are the actions of a company interested in operating morally? In fact, it was declared immoral by MPs.

Taken from here: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/09/margaret-hodge-urges-boycott-amazon-uk-tax-starbucks

Hodge said: "If you are an Amazon user you get endless emails saying Amazon.co.uk. You then order your goods and you get them delivered by the Royal Mail in parcels stamped with the Queen's head, and they then pretend it's nothing to do with business in the UK. They are damaging British jobs. If you are a small bookshop in the high street you can never compete with their prices, because you pay taxes. Even for John Lewis their future is also threatened because they pay their taxes."

What do you make of that statement? Is this a moral or immoral thing to do?

Forgive me if I essentially disregard your opinion put forward in this thread on the basis I find it to be somewhat hypocritical and comical.
 
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minnnt said:
I guess i should have stayed schtum... :oops: :$
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I agree, at least your points were concise and easy to discuss ;).

Now I end up with someone who can't understand the difference between illegal and legal and who writes walls of texts getting them all confused. I think I'll invoke the saying of Duncan Bannatyne and say "I'm out" of this thread.
 
Nikons response:

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Dear Phil,

I am very sorry to hear that you are disappointed.

In regards to the service we carried out when your camera was in with us, we charged for an hours labour in servicing and cleaning your camera. This was in order to clean the dust on the senor which was most likely causing the dots on your images. The clean included a wet clean, which picks up the smallest pieces of dust. We also cleaned the mirror box as well as the camera externally. We then checked and tested to see if the sensor had any permanent marks as well as to see if there was anything internally causing debris to fall on the sensor. During this service, we found that this was not the case and your camera was working to full Nikon standard.

As stated previously, DSLR cameras are not a sealed system. As such, dust particles may potentially enter the system during operation. This can occur during a lens change but even if the lens is not removed it can still occur due to the zoom action of the lens as it is sucking air into the body of the camera. When the camera left our workshop, the sensor was clean. However dust particles previously in the camera may have dislodged and landed on the sensor.

Sensor cleans and services are chargeable and I am very sorry that you are unhappy with the service. We understand that it is inconvenient to request an item to come back to us, however we have to assess it at our workshop and we will endeavour to rectify any fault that may occur during the Service Warranty. All completed repair come with a Service Warranty, so if the unit does fail within its Service warranty we aim to put it right at no cost, as long as it hasn’t failed due to missuse.

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

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So they failed to address most of the points I put forward, and essentially rehashed their previous email. There are several points that could be picked apart from their response, but I can't really be bothered any more. They certainly don't seem interested in putting the situation right - I have to wonder how much they value their customers, as they have certainly lost at least 1 from this experience, over an hours labour charge.

At least Panamoz came through to save the day though :)

As someone else said (on another thread, I think), mistakes and issues are inevitable, that in itself is not the issue - the important thing is how the company deals with it and puts it right. 2 ends of the spectrum from this experience.
 
So, I don't know how it happened, but the Nikon service centre dispatched somebody else's D600 to me and it was delivered today! :eek:

I diverted the delivery to a collection point via DPD, where it will now stay until Nikon arrange for DPD to take it back. Hopefully it doesn't come my way again.

I feel sorry for whoever owns the camera!
 
Is this what is called a 'comedy of errors'? :)
 
Phil789 said:
So, I don't know how it happened, but the Nikon service centre dispatched somebody else's D600 to me and it was delivered today! :eek:

I diverted the delivery to a collection point via DPD, where it will now stay until Nikon arrange for DPD to take it back. Hopefully it doesn't come my way again.

I feel sorry for whoever owns the camera!
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They probably saw a description of dust/oil on the sensor and immediately assumed it was a D600. :confused:
 
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