Damaging vehicle moving out of way of emergency vehicle

DorsetDude

DorsetDude

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This is not a moan against police, fire, ambulance service etc.

This morning I was on a narrow 2 lane country road when a police car with blues and twos on appeared behind me, lots of oncoming traffic so the only real option I thought was to mount the nearside "pavement" to allow the car past me. I did so and a got a beep of thanks as he passed me by. Unfortunately my car had made a massive banging sound from underneath as I did the manoeuvre and mounted the verge with my nearside wheels. So my question is, I would assume people occasionally do damage their vehicles accommodating emergency vehicle scenarios, so is there a process whereby you can claim for damage if any was sustained or is it just tough luck? I imagine the emergency services would rather you get out of their way and sort you out after, rather than pootle along waiting for somewhere convenient to pull over? If its tough luck I'll think twice about pulling out of the way so quick next time.

Cheers all.

Once again this is not a rant against any service.
 
To my knowledge, but I maybe wrong, you are only obliged to move out of the way of an ambulance that's on its way to an emergency, but obviously emergency vehicles should be given right of way where its safe to to do so.

My point being, you mounting a large curb to get out of his way has to be your decision, so don't think there's a lot you'll be able to do :)
 
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I would think you're stuffed. after all, you were the fella to make that decision.

It would be equally valid to have accelerated to a safer area before you got out the way.
 
Im not sure and cant help but feel it is tough luck sadly.
As much as we all move out the way for emergencies vehicles as common courtesy i am under the impression you dont have to move for them unless it is safe to do so, its probsbly arguable that bumping up the kerb may not be deemed as safe.
Its a bit like the red light scenario with an emergency vehicle approaching, most will creep forward/sideways to create a gap but ultimately you are not obliged to as you are obeying traffic signals prior to EV's arrival.

Such a grey area in my eyes
 
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Unfortunately there is no comeback from something like this.
The police vehicle didn't force you up onto the curb and unfortunately the results of your honest and helpful actions are yours to sort out.
 
Mikesphotaes said:
I would think you're stuffed. after all, you were the fella to make that decision.

It would be equally valid to have accelerated to a safer area before you got out the way.
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Not if there was a speed camera up the road though as you will still be prosecuted for speeding if caught, even when moving for an Emergency Vehicle
 
Marvellous, well hopefully the noise wasnt anything serious and next time I'll put my cars welfare before that of the heart attack victim/fleeing terrorist/orphanage on fire or whatever. Ho hum.
 
Personally I'll always do what ever I can to get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine right away, and usually the same for police though I will take more care not to damage my car for the latter as there is significantly less chance that a police car is on a life saving mission

To be honest I think that's it's indicative of a changing culture in this country that your looking for someone else to be at blame here :(
 
Ambulance driver once told me it is not up to the vehicle in front of emergency service vehicle to get out of the way, it is up to the driver of ambulance/police or fire engine to manouvre around you, that is part of their training. Getting out their way is a help to them but never put yourself or vehicle at risk. If you get snapped with a red light camera while moving out the way of a emer' vehicle your the guy that has to pay the fine.
 
MWHCVT said:
To be honest I think that's it's indicative of a changing culture in this country that your looking for someone else to be at blame here :(
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Not looking for blame just the best thing to do in the circumstance. Which seems to be don't damage your car or speed or go through a red light to assist an EV. Which surprises me. This morning I should probably just have hugged the left as best I could and pulled off the road if somewhere convenient and non dangerous came up and it was then the police car drivers responsibility to overtake me when he could.
At the end of the day I've learnt something.

If I hadnt asked, next time I did it I might have snapped the bar holding my wheel on, lost the wheel and landed in a heap and had to pay to be recovered and for major repair works. Obviously now I wont risk that scenario.
 
frank said:
Ambulance driver once told me it is not up to the vehicle in front of emergency service vehicle to get out of the way, it is up to the driver of ambulance/police or fire engine to manouvre around you, that is part of their training. Getting out their way is a help to them but never put yourself or vehicle at risk. If you get snapped with a red light camera while moving out the way of a emer' vehicle your the guy that has to pay the fine.
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The occasional public service information ad on the telly or radio to let us all know this would be quite helpful. Rather than the speeding/drink driving ones all the time. (nothing against speeding ads etc btw just more info on other stuff aswell would be nice)
 
HWC:

"219
Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you."

To be honest while I always try and get out of the way quickly I wouldn't consider mounting a kerb anyway. Alloy wheels are a nightmare for damage.

On the random occasion I have mounted a kerb for whatever reason I have scuffed the undertray pretty badly so wouldn't tend to recommend it.
 
I went on a Police run driving course abotu 15 years ago (christ.... didn't realise it was that long ago!!!) and they gave advice about how to react to emergency vehicles.

The main theories were don't put yourself or your vehicle in any danger and try not to stop if it's going to cause the emergency vehicle to stop too i.e. single carriage way with on coming traffic, some people panic and just stop on the road and if there's oncoming traffic you've just turned yourself into a stationary obstruction.

Their best advice was to keep moving, even if it's only at 30mph because that way the emergency vehicle is still moving and it's easier to overtake from a rolling start when the oncoming lane is clear.

It's pretty much common sense but I know some people just freak out when they see blue lights :LOL:
 
Personally, I wouldn't mount the curb for any vehicle. If the vehicle was coming in the opposite direction, I would stop and let them drive over the curb on their side if they wanted to. If they were coming behind, I would increase my speed if possible and continue driving until I found a suitable place to pull over and stop.
 
DorsetDude said:
If I hadnt asked, next time I did it I might have snapped the bar holding my wheel on, lost the wheel and landed in a heap and had to pay to be recovered and for major repair works. Obviously now I wont risk that scenario.
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Best get the n/s/f wheel checked out, balljoints, lower control arm, rollbar and droplink - You don't want these compromised.
 
On the positive side they didn't book you for mounting the pavement :D
 
We have all been there and done that. I myself have on more than one occasion broken a traffic law whilst getting out of the way. Don't beat yourself up about it. Hopefully there is no listing damage to your car.
 
Just watched a rapid response 4x4 with lights and sirensget run unto pavement because the car in front didn't see him and tried to change lanes on the roundabout....:eek:
 
...I also indicate to let the EV driver know I have seen them...
 
Don't beat yourself up about it. Unfortunately there's no financial recourse to repair your car, but take solace in the fact you did the right thing.
It could have made the difference between life and death for someone and you doing that could have just put the odds in their favour.
 
Marcel said:
Don't beat yourself up about it. Unfortunately there's no financial recourse to repair your car, but take solace in the fact you did the right thing.
It could have made the difference between life and death for someone and you doing that could have just put the odds in their favour.
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apart from your own insurance of course.

but yes right thing to do - it happens
 
Buy an SUV with off-road tyres if you like driving over kerbs. You should assess the situation and just carry on until safe to pull out of the way. You normally see them approaching for a while (only police really drive much faster than normal traffic) so there is plenty of time to look around and think.
 
Mounting a kerb doesn't have to be an issue for any vehicle alloys or not, unless it is unreasonable high but even then it is more the other parts of your vehicle opposed to the wheels. Just do it on a reasonable angle such to avoid damage to the alloy, and not straight on...

As Neil has highlighted in the copied extract, I don't think it is clear as mud...The highway code is quite clear on it. So unfortunately there is no comeback if you've damaged your vehicle in the process.

PS. Another one people get caught out by is using the buslane to get out of the way. Please don't the drivers are trained to get around you, they've got processes to nullify their buslane penalty, but you don't. Just remain where you are.
 
You're not alone, lots of people don't know how to drive or the highway code, on the plus side at least you weren't on Facebook at the time.
 
hmm difficult one.. i once got told off by a pcso for driving in a bus lane to allow the rather large very red fire engine on blues and twos to pass without having to swerve.. seemed the sensible thing to do - he had a different opinion. I may have expressed my lack of enthusiam at his interpretation of common sense. What's he going to do? Arrest me?
 
Lynton said:
hmm difficult one.. i once got told off by a pcso for driving in a bus lane to allow the rather large very red fire engine on blues and twos to pass without having to swerve.. seemed the sensible thing to do - he had a different opinion. I may have expressed my lack of enthusiam at his interpretation of common sense. What's he going to do? Arrest me?
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He could if it was dangerous enough, and the highway code is very clear on it, do not do it. You should have gotten a fine for it tbh just like what would happen if a buslane camera spotted it. As has been highlighted the emergency drivers are trained to move around you, you could have just blocked their path...
 
To be fair to your PCSO Lynton, he's never had to drive on blues and 2's.

Back to the point, I agree there's very little chance of recourse. In general, all emergency service drivers expect to go round you, not for you to pull up on a verge.

Personally I'll always do what ever I can to get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine right away, and usually the same for police though I will take more care not to damage my car for the latter as there is significantly less chance that a police car is on a life saving mission
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A very dangerous assumption to make. With cuts to NHS budgets, Police are being asked to attend more and more ambulance incidents. Also, Police could be going to a serious RTA(C for the politically correct!), where control of traffic could prevent another car ploughing into the back. They could be going to a threat to commit suicide and a list a mile long where someone is at risk.
 
You don't need to risk yourself or your property to allow the emergency services past. Your oblidged not to obstruct them and do whatever is safe and legal to assist them to get through. Smacking your car into a kerb isn't that, but the sentiment was nice.
 
Lynton said:
hmm difficult one.. i once got told off by a pcso for driving in a bus lane to allow the rather large very red fire engine on blues and twos to pass without having to swerve.. seemed the sensible thing to do - he had a different opinion. I may have expressed my lack of enthusiam at his interpretation of common sense. What's he going to do? Arrest me?
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Here is a thought for you. Maybe that engine wanted to use the bus lane, all free from cars, and get there faster?
 
Lynton said:
hmm difficult one.. i once got told off by a pcso for driving in a bus lane to allow the rather large very red fire engine on blues and twos to pass without having to swerve.. seemed the sensible thing to do - he had a different opinion. I may have expressed my lack of enthusiam at his interpretation of common sense. What's he going to do? Arrest me?
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A friend in Manchester was ticketed for driving in a bus lane despite the picture sent to him showing the fire appliance.
As to moving through a red light I understand it is against the law per se and so I would not do either.
 
neil_g said:
HWC:

"219
Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you."
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I once saw a car rear ended at a set of traffic lights because it braked sharply to allow an emergency vehicle to cross against the red light. The following car (which I assume could not see the emergency vehicle) had no idea the car in front approaching the green light was going to brake. I know people will say "drive so you have space in front to stop" but I saw this happen and could not really apportion any blame to the following car.

D
 
Most useful, thank you for that video. Also, I recognised some of the roads that it was filmed on as they are no more than ten minutes away from me here in Cornwall.

Thing that annoys me is when an emergency vehicle is coming towards me and the car in front of me brakes hard! Why! There is absolutely no reason for it.
 
ralphhardwick said:
This might help clarify what you should and shouldn't do:
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Good video:plus1:

Whenever I am on blues all I'm looking for is a gap the size of my vehicle, that's it. We always wince when we see people taking avoiding action like mounting kerbs. I thought about writing some dos and don'ts, but there are so many that I'd be here for ever! All I will say is that whatever you're going to do to assist, do it early.

To the OP- What has happened to you is called a "Vicinity only POLCOLL" and is pretty common. Basically, the damage has been caused by your actions when you tried to assist a Police vehicle....so it was owing to their presence etc.... Although I don't know if the Police will actually pay out for it in this case, what you should do is to report it to the force concerned. We aren't actually 'insured' as such so there isn't any need to involve your insurance company, you can just do it yourself. Do it quickly though as if the Police vehicle had on board cameras it would have been caught and you don't want the footage to be over-written.
 
Wookee said:
Good video:plus1:

Whenever I am on blues all I'm looking for is a gap the size of my vehicle, that's it. We always wince when we see people taking avoiding action like mounting kerbs. I thought about writing some dos and don'ts, but there are so many that I'd be here for ever! All I will say is that whatever you're going to do to assist, do it early.

To the OP- What has happened to you is called a "Vicinity only POLCOLL" and is pretty common. Basically, the damage has been caused by your actions when you tried to assist a Police vehicle....so it was owing to their presence etc.... Although I don't know if the Police will actually pay out for it in this case, what you should do is to report it to the force concerned. We aren't actually 'insured' as such so there isn't any need to involve your insurance company, you can just do it yourself. Do it quickly though as if the Police vehicle had on board cameras it would have been caught and you don't want the footage to be over-written.
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Well blow me.

Is today to late? Not noticed anything wrong with the car since but there could be something bent underneath for all I know. It was a loud bang at the time
Also not entirely sure which force it was, Dorset I suppose.

Cheers.
 
Wookee said:
We always wince when we see people taking avoiding action like mounting kerbs.
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A paramedic friend once told me that the last thing they wanted to see was brake lights. However, when you see blue lights behind you, that is what you instinctively do, even though that might cause more of an obstruction. And no one is going to be prosecuted for speeding up a bit in order to get safely out of the way somewhere more convenient.


Steve.
 
And no one is going to be prosecuted for speeding up a bit in order to get safely out of the way somewhere more convenient.
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Oh yes you are. Just like moving through a red light to let them through. You have committed an offence. You will be prosecuted. It is then up to you to prove your innocence. Plod and CPS are not interested in your side of the story, they are just meeting targets. It's up to the judge to decide if you can be let off.

Remember even emergency vehicles have to obey the law, it's just that they are given more leeway than the rest of us, but if one of them goes through a red light and causes an accident they are still liable to prosecution.
 
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