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KIPAX

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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If your at a match and you can choose to sit anywhere... half the pitch is in dark shadow and half in bright sunlight... do you sit in shadow or sit in sun..

no it doesnt depend on anything.. dont complicate it.. simple question :)

I know what i prefer but wondered what others do...
 
I usually shoot with the sun behind me, if at all possible.
If the sun is diffusing nicely, then sometimes I'll swap it around - esp. if I'm using a bit of direct flash as fill.
 
afasoas said:
I usually shoot with the sun behind me, if at all possible.
If the sun is diffusing nicely, then sometimes I'll swap it around - esp. if I'm using a bit of direct flash as fill.
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sorry but direct flash to fill? sun behind you? I dont think you got the idea of the question my friend :)
 
Personally I would sit in the shade - easier to see whats going on in the light from the shade than the other way round.
But then I don't do sports at all - just thinking logically:)
 
I don't see how this is really a simple question...
IMO, there is a lot to consider...*what/who* am I there to cover and where is the important action likely to be. Sun angle, uniform colors, etc etc...

But if somehow none of that matters and I'm not going to be moving; I would choose to sit in shade... unless it was cold out.
 
OK for the non sports amongst us :) As I say its at a match and half in dark shadow half in bright sunlight.. this happens a lot on a sunny day with a big stand with shadow overing half the pitch.. you ahve to photograph both the light and the dark areas..... as this is posted in sports i presumed this would be taken as read... hence my suprise at fill flash :) so would you sit in the bright and shoot into the bright and dark or sit in the dark and shoot dark and bright...
 
sk66 said:
I don't see how this is really a simple question...
IMO, there is a lot to consider...*what/who* am I there to cover and where is the important action likely to be. Sun angle, uniform colors, etc etc...
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thats the bit about complicating things... lets say the shadows right down the middle.. goal to goal. this isnt one match.. it could be a bright summer and every game you go to.. i also said its a general question and you can sit anywhere.. the ONLY question is.. dark into light or light into dark.. NOT whos playing and where the action is....... simple question NOT complicated :)

sk66 said:
But if somehow none of that matters and I'm not going to be moving; I would choose to sit in shade... unless it was cold out.
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Why?
 
Shade, because I don't like getting burned or too hot is the simple answer. However, its complicated by the fact that thanks to YOUR advice a couple of years ago Tony, I actually prefer shooting into the sun when possible, which would mean more often than not, sitting in it....if that makes sense? Don't do football, dont want to, but at cricket, tend to move around where and when possible to get best of both worlds.... Yes I know, that probably wasn't the simple answer you wanted either :whistle:
 
Answer are pretty useless without the why ? ... doncha think ? :)
 
Depends on how I feel and how I have prepared for a game, by that I mean who is playing and the "likely" outcome.

Either or for me. Done both this season when we have occasionally had sun and will no doubt do the same again come August
 
Depends on where I can sit relative to the pitch and sport, but if I'm shooting a team I support then I'll shoot so they are attacking towards me so I get their faces.
 
Dark to Light. More often than not the backdrop will then be roughly equal to your exposure, unless they are in a very close arc in front of you.
 
KIPAX said:
Why?
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Comfort mostly. I don't like to bake and be all sweaty sitting next to a bunch of other sweaty people. And I don't like getting sunburnt. I also don't like to wear sunglasses when photographing or not wear sunglasses when I should (and then not be able to see when I go into a darker area to take a p***).

But I can also see image reviews easier, have less issues with sun (flare, hoods, filters, exposure etc). Plus, my beer won't get warm quite as fast.
 
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in to the sun, then all shadows the same,

otherwise, hot day - shadows, cold day - sun.
 
I usually sit facing into the sun
This allows me to correctly expose the players faces, if I were to sit with the sun to my back there is more of a chance of shadows across playing faces.
It also provides a nice halo effect.
 
I dont know if everyones getting this.... and I APOLOGISE as its probably my fault.. usually is :)

Last night I did a game in exactly these conditions... half light and half dark down the middle from goalmouth to goalmouth. ok maybe not exact middle...

I sat in shadows ..around half way line.....the thing you all seems to be skirting over is.. yes you shoot bright subjects that are in the sun.. looks great BUT .. arnt you also shooting subjects in the dark with bright backgrounds? I was one and a half stops difference between players in shadows with bright sunny background and players in the bright sun ... i wasnt able to try from the sunny side.. i could have got players in the sun but would be dark backgrounds..
 
KIPAX said:
I sat in shadows ..around half way line.....the thing you all seems to be skirting over is.. yes you shoot bright subjects that are in the sun.. looks great BUT .. arnt you also shooting subjects in the dark with bright backgrounds? I was one and a half stops difference between players in shadows with bright sunny background and players in the bright sun ... i wasnt able to try from the sunny side.. i could have got players in the sun but would be dark backgrounds..
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I said what I did. If you position yourself correctly (at the corner/ dead ball line) then you minimise the variance between light & shade backdrops. You just need to work out which angle gives you the best advantage! :)
 
KIPAX said:
I dont know if everyones getting this.... and I APOLOGISE as its probably my fault.. usually is :)

Last night I did a game in exactly these conditions... half light and half dark down the middle from goalmouth to goalmouth. ok maybe not exact middle...

I sat in shadows ..around half way line.....the thing you all seems to be skirting over is.. yes you shoot bright subjects that are in the sun.. looks great BUT .. arnt you also shooting subjects in the dark with bright backgrounds? I was one and a half stops difference between players in shadows with bright sunny background and players in the bright sun ... i wasnt able to try from the sunny side.. i could have got players in the sun but would be dark backgrounds..
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You're the one who wanted "simple"...
In the scenario you described I'm guessing the shadows on the players in the light was ~1.5 stops? In that case I would probably shoot in raw and choose backlighting (that's not necessarily a shade/light side decision). Go much beyond ~2stops ratio and I would prefer front lighting.
Contrast w/ the BG isn't "bad," it makes the subject stand out more. IMO, the only time it's really a problem is if the BG (or rim/back lighting) clips hard in ugly spots. I'd rather have light subjects (uniforms) against a dark BG and dark subjects against a light BG as long as the ratio wasn't too extreme.

I was one and a half stops difference between players in shadows with bright sunny background and players in the bright sun
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This really sounds more like an issue of shooting in full manual mode with mixed lighting environments...and yes, that *is* problematic.
 
sk66 said:
This really sounds more like an issue of shooting in full manual mode with mixed lighting environments...and yes, that *is* problematic.
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give me a break for crying out loud :(
 
OK so.. SIMPLE problem.. half graound dark.. half ground light.. best place to sit..

If you sit in the dark and shoot towards the light then players in the light your camera will expose about right.. but players in the dark with brightness in background will require massive exposure compensation... so when a player or the action is changing quickly between the two areas its not ideal to have to be adding then taking away exposure compensation.... same applies but in reverse if you shoot into the sun and then into the dark...

The optimum position IN MY HUMBLE OPINION is between the two.. wiht light coming first.. if you shoot into the light first (dark backgrounds) but not into the sun then the camera will expose correctly because the subject is lit... then when action goes into dark you still have a dark background and camerawill still expose correctly even though your passing through the light to th dark area...

its being in a positon where you can shoot so its you.. then light.. then dark but without shooting into the sun...

if that makes sense :)

The only thing I dont understanmd is ..given a simple scenario of .. ground half dark and half light where do you sit... can be turned into somehting more compplicated :)
 
Ok, half shadow, as in, split down the long length of the pitch.

I would sit at the change of shadow to light (my back being half in the shadow and light), therefore shooting totally into light or dark but there as will always be problems with players in that break in light to dark,

i would prefer to shoot directly into light, at an angle were players faces are in shadow with sun behind them, M mode to that settings, therefore the wether the play is in the dark or light, the face shadows setting will be very similar.

simple question, hard to explain being an illiterate dyslexia.
 
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OK, cast iron way shooting Nikon is to shoot in manual with auto ISO, Change your metering mode to spot and this is the important bit, increase the circle to 12mm.

Underexpose by half a stop and it won't matter where you sit as your target will be correctly exposed to within half a stop.

Youre gonna have to put up with big swings of about 3-4 stops in your ISO but you wont really notice as you're still shooting in day time.

Should add that's the only scenario I would Use spot, I find it way too accurate on Nikon a d that's also why I increase the spot image circle. Even then it tends to overexpose hence I dial in - half a stop as well.

I know technically you could pick holes in this but it works and it works at Wembley so try it before knocking it.
 
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Interesting to hear that you can increase the circle on a Nikon.
 
bigrob said:
Interesting to hear that you can increase the circle on a Nikon.
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You can on most cameras Rob using firmware hacks, i had some belting hacks on y first D3S but lost them all when i sold it, never had it backed up and never found the right on Internet since
 
Ah I see thanks.
 
I think on the D3S spot meter circle is 4mm and centre weighted is 12mm bur for some reason setting spot to 12mm gives better results than centre weight at 12mm, somethink like the D7100 has 3,7,10mm if im remember rightly, all cameras are different and FX different to DX
 
bigrob said:
Interesting to hear that you can increase the circle on a Nikon.
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You can't. Spot metering is always/only based on the active focus point. AFAIK Nikon spot is always 4mm (from memory and both bodies I have now). You can change the size of the CW metering area though *IF* you are using a CPU (modern) lens...

EDIT: didn't notice the Nikon FW hack requirement... I have no experience with that (going to go look now).
 
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KIPAX said:
OK so.. SIMPLE problem.. half graound dark.. half ground light.. best place to sit..
Click to expand...
I work with mixed lighting scenarios all of the time, probably more often than not, and I honestly don't have much issue with it. But I shoot in A or M with auto ISO (limits set for max ISO and min SS). I tend to use spot metering 95+% of the time; if subject brightness is unknown (subjects of opportunity) exposure may be off by up to ~ 1 stop. If subject brightness is known I'll use an EC offset.

With my Nikons set up the way I do the camera will first maintain min SS set by using as low an ISO as possible. If the light is better it will increase SS. If the light is worse it will increase ISO to the limit set and then it will decrease SS below the minimum set. The only issue is metering mode and EC and often just switching metering mode is a good fix. (my camera is normally set to spot and my Fn and Pre buttons switch to the other two modes).
 
In this situation I'll sit so that the stands I'm looking at are shaded with the sun behind the players as I look at them. Then, expose for the shade and you'll have a pretty constant exposure of the players throughout as their side facing you will always be shaded whether they are in the sunlit bit or not. Add in some nice rim lighting from the sun and you're sorted.

The only problem with this approach is the pitch looking a bit blown out but better that than too-dark faces.
 
KIPAX said:
sorry but direct flash to fill? sun behind you? I dont think you got the idea of the question my friend :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the patronisation.
Where I sit depends on where I think I'm going to get the best shot. Whether I'm in the sun or shade doesn't bother me.

I'd generally shoot with the sun behind me.
I sometimes shoot with the sun in front of me, if it's slightly diffused and direct fill flash is an option.

My only experience is shooting football tournaments - usually five or seven a side. Lots of them.
 
Never used flash for sport (football etc) and don't really understand any need for it to be honest?

General rule of thumb is no flash
 
Steven - what about when you are on the 400 & there is a cele at the other end if the pitch?
 
It is a long way for all that light to travel so a little fill in flash surely :)
 
Just remember you need some of those Duracell-nucopower 2.3KW batteries..
 
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