Defrosted films

excalibur2

My F4's Broken...
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#5
You youngsters won't appreciate this, but forgetting is easy.
Reminds me of the card I saw in the shop window last week:- A guy was at the bottom of the stairs (at home) and he said to himself "Have I just come down or was I going to go upstairs for something" :LOL:
 
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#7
Wow, that's a nice selection. I'm not an XP2 fan (although its cool how much it can be pushed), but everything else is making me drool a little.
 
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#9
Blimey Peter, if you have a mortgage you could probably pay it off with that lot!
 

sirch

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#12
icon_drooling-5.gif

It will be interesting to see how the Portra 800 has survived; freezing doesn't stop age damage by gamma radiation, to which faster films are more susceptible.
A block and ice and a metal box will stop a lot of gamma radiation
 
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#13
View attachment 250466



A block and ice and a metal box will stop a lot of gamma radiation
Not according to what I've read, including some info from Kodak. It seems the freezing significantly slows/arrests the aging of the emulsion and film, but those little particles of gamma radiation keep on passing though... and that's what does the damage, and it seems there's not much we can practically do to stop that where the storage of high ISO film is concerned.
 

Nod

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#15
From http://nuclearconnect.org/know-nuclear/science/protecting


γ GAMMA: To reduce typical gamma rays by a factor of a billion, thicknesses of
shield need to be about 13.8 feet of water, about 6.6 feet of concrete, or about 1.3 feet of lead. Thick, dense shielding is necessary to protect against gamma rays. The higher the energy of the gamma ray, the thicker the shield must be. X-rays pose a similar challenge. This is why x-ray technicians often give patients receiving medical or dental X-rays a lead apron to cover other parts of their body.
 
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#17
There really shouldn't be a lot of gamma radiation around in a domestic kitchen, mind.
Depends on which area of the country your kitchen is in... and which country. It seems it's naturally occurring and all around us in small doses, and the longer the film sits there the more will have passed through it.
 
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simon ess

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#18
IIRC from taking no notice in geography classes, granite is a major culprit.
 

StephenM

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#20
I saw a YouTube video a while back of a chap who dug a BIG hole in his garden - big enough for a reasonablly sized swimming pool - then got in the concrete and steel and constructed an underground bunker. I can't recall if it was intended as a shelter in the case of nuclear attack (I think it had rudimentary living arrangements) but it was rather wasted in the end as he stored wine in it.

A similar idea could be used to build an underground film store. Possibly if a few people clubbed together, a community film bank could be created. Possibly some may have a head start; when we moved here in the 1970s, the details of one of the houses we received stated that it had an air raid shelter in the garden. There may be others. A few more feet (or yards) of concrete, and you're there. Add in electricity and a few freezers, and you're in business.
 
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I saw a YouTube video a while back of a chap who dug a BIG hole in his garden - big enough for a reasonablly sized swimming pool - then got in the concrete and steel and constructed an underground bunker. I can't recall if it was intended as a shelter in the case of nuclear attack (I think it had rudimentary living arrangements) but it was trather wasted in the end as he stored wine in it.

A similar idea could be used to build an underground film store. Possibly if a few people clubbed together, a community film bank could be created. Possibly some may have a head start; when we moved here in the 1970s, the details of one of the houses we received stated that it had an air raid shelter in the garden. There may be others. A few more feet (or yards) of concrete, and you're there. Add in electricity and a few freezers, and you're in business.
Unless of course they've used granite chippings to make the concrete with! ;) Joking aside, a bit of background radiation may seem insignificant, but apparently it doesn't do stored high ISO film much good over longer periods of time. That's why I asked the original question, it would be interesting to see how that Portra 800 has stood up to storage if it's a few years old. I have a couple of rolls of it in my freezer too, but it's only around 2 years past its expiry date.
 

Asha

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StephenM

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#23
Where's @stevelmx5 when you need a motor drive for your large format camera to help overcome this significant downside?
 

Nod

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#24
Powered by Briggs and Stratton?
 

Nod

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#26
Proper analogue power supply!
 
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#27
Not according to what I've read, including some info from Kodak. It seems the freezing significantly slows/arrests the aging of the emulsion and film, but those little particles of gamma radiation keep on passing though... and that's what does the damage, and it seems there's not much we can practically do to stop that where the storage of high ISO film is concerned.
This is why Bruce Banner kept turning into The Hulk. Every time he got a roll of film back only to discover it was badly fogged thanks to his experiments into human superstrength and gamma radiation he would fly into an uncontrollable rage and rip his trousers.
 
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#28
Best way to avoid any gamma ( or other issues) is to avoid storing the film for long periods of time in the first place!

Buy fresh, expose it within a reasonable time period, develop, buy more fresh.....Problem solved;)
Honestly there was a period of time when nearly every other week a film stock was vanishing. There has been a film resurgence of late, but I'd say if you've found film stocks you love, storing as much as you can and rotating it out with new stock is the only safe option.
 

StephenM

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#29
Honestly there was a period of time when nearly every other week a film stock was vanishing. There has been a film resurgence of late, but I'd say if you've found film stocks you love, storing as much as you can and rotating it out with new stock is the only safe option.
Quite. That's why I still have Kodachrome and Ektachrome Color Infra Red film. On the other hand, I might be able to dig it out and use it, but getting it processed would be a DIY job. E4 would only be a problem if I can't get the necessary raw chemicals, but Kodachrome is slightly trickier.

In other words, stocking film is a good idea against discontinuation, but you need to be able to process it afterwards. And, depending on your age, stocking up to cover the rest of your projected lifespan might not be feasible. Especially if we have to consider future health and safety regulations which could ban all forms of film processing, so you need to stock up on chemicals as well.

And if you print, there's the added complication of vanishing paper stocks. Frederick Evans ("Sea of steps" - Google if required) packed it in when he could no longer get platinum papers due to war time restrictions (Kaiser's war, not Hitler's).
 
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#30
IIRC from taking no notice in geography classes, granite is a major culprit.
I used to live in Cornwall (it is based on granite) and worked as a miner at Wheal Jane. This was in the early 1980s. The National Radiological Protection Board was becoming concerned with domestic radiation levels caused by radon gas in houses. They were already involved in monitoring radon levels in the underground workings at Wheal Jane. They asked for volunteers to install radon detectors in their home. I volunteered and was given two detectors - one for the sitting room and one for the bedroom. These were replaced annually for a few years. The outcome was that our house was at the concern level. Later they altered the concern level and we were well above the new level. We moved to Lincolnshire which solved that particular problem.

But, the radiation from radon (and, hence, from granite) is alpha radiation not gamma radiation and that a will only travel about 50mm (two inches) in air. The aluminium the fridge is made from will completely stop alpha radiation. The only time you will get gamma radiation from granite is if it contains significant pitchblende inclusions which, usually, it does not.
 
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PeterSpencer
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#31
Well, to be honest I was aware that there were a few films in the freezer, accumulated over about 10 years, but I didn't realise how many!

A whole bunch came from a design studio in Manchester which switched to digtal and literally gave their film stock away. They were in a chiller and went straight into my freezer so they are mainly immensely out of date.

I think there are well over 200 films so I'd better get busy. I've already planned to take just medium format gear on holiday to Northumbria next month.

I had to defrost the freezer so it can be move out for a kitchen makeover. The kitchen conversion should be done in about 10 days then I'll move the films into a dedicated fridge in the shed. Hopefully a few days defrosted won't affect them much.
 
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#32
Snip:
I had to defrost the freezer so it can be move out for a kitchen makeover. The kitchen conversion should be done in about 10 days then I'll move the films into a dedicated fridge in the shed. Hopefully a few days defrosted won't affect them much.
Look on the bright side, I doubt you'll give your cameras listeria by feeding them re-frozen 'food' that past its best before date! ;) You'll have to shoot a roll of Portra 800 when you go on holiday and see if it's still OK, but make sure your camera is light tight, as fast film is a bugger for detecting light leaks! (y)
 
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#33
mmmm.......velvia 100f.......acros......:love:


that 400x might be the most valuable I think, managed to get a 5 pack a while back for cheap but generally its pretty rare and daft expensive..:)
 
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