Do I need Insurance?

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The Greek

The Greek

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Chris
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I have been asked to photograph a local Hotel. They would like pictures of bedrooms, restaurant, spa etc, for use on their website and brochures, in return, I get dinner for four and a couple of bottles of wine.

My question is, do I need insurance and if
so why? Bearing in mind, I'm no different to any other guess staying there with a camera.
 
Basically, you've entered into a contract to photograph the hotel for a reward (dinner and wine) which is technically a business deal. You would need to have public liability insurance as minimum as a business, in case someone trips over your bag etc.
However, if you are regarding this as a favour I think you be most likely to get away without the need for any PLI as long as you are careful. If you have a lot of expensive gear you really should look into some sort of insurance for it.
 
Thanks Modchild.

Well its a favour for a favour, so no contacts or money involved. If they are not happy with images ... Tough, if I'm not happy with the wine... Tough. As for my equipment, its insured.
 
The Greek said:
Thanks Modchild.

Well its a favour for a favour, so no contacts or money involved. If they are not happy with images ... Tough, if I'm not happy with the wine... Tough. As for my equipment, its insured.
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That doesn't make it any less of a business transaction - it's called barter.

Don't underestimate the potential cost of covering someone's claim for damages if they trip over your bag and end up at the bottom of the stairs.

Hope the wine lives up to expectation though :thumbs:
 
Thanks Steve and Gramps. I hear what your saying but dont fully understand.

If tonight I was in a restaurant having a meal with the wife, and someone tripped over my camera bag or the wife's handbag, can they sue me?
 
The Greek said:
Thanks Steve and Gramps. I hear what your saying but dont fully understand.

If tonight I was in a restaurant having a meal with the wife, and someone tripped over my camera bag or the wife's handbag, can they sue me?
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That would likely be covered by the restaurants PLI (with some exceptions possibly). If you are "working" and it is your "tools" then the restaurant may not be covered and could/would be expected to have your own.

The simplest answer is be hyper careful, if putting you bag down put it in a corner with no straps hanging out, if you are using a tripod by uber careful and dont leave it anywhere un-attended and also be careful of who is around etc. If you are just doing a couple of hand held wide angle shots with no bag or tripod there is nothing really to worry about (just dont go pushing people down stairs or tripping people over)
 
The Greek said:
Thanks Steve and Gramps. I hear what your saying but dont fully understand.

If tonight I was in a restaurant having a meal with the wife, and someone tripped over my camera bag or the wife's handbag, can they sue me?
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But that's not going to be the case, you are there in the course of a 'job' for which you are being paid in kind. Anything untoward that happens as a result of your doing that job is down to you, unless you can get a total waiver and acceptance of responsibility from the hotel owner, (which may anyway be an issue with his/her insurers).
Think worst case scenario - you cause the death of a guest; you cause a fire which burns down the hotel ... yes of course it's remote but insurance is for the 'unexpected' ... could you cope financially and emotionally if the worst happened and you were held responsible?
 
As others have said, just because there is no exchange of hard cash doesn't mean that it is not a business deal and thus there is no way that the hotel's insurance would cover you.
 
Thanks everyone, wrong I know, but I have decided to take a chance and do this without insurance.
 
The dinner and wine is taxable income to be declared on your self-assessment, of course ;)
 
Daryl said:
Chris I would'nt.. you're Greek... you fellas can not resist throwing peoples crockery at the fire place during a good knees up!!! So get insured just incase you can't stop your self!!!!!!
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Haha .... Brilliant! lol

That's probably why they didn't ask for any pictures of the Kitchen.
 
The Greek said:
Did you mean Tax Deductible.
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No.. you should be declaring the value of the meal and paying the tax due on the value. So if the meal is £100 and you're tax rate is 20%, then you owe the tax man £20 in January (slightly more as there's NI as well).

The insurance would be tax deductible.
 
The Greek said:
Thanks everyone, wrong I know, but I have decided to take a chance and do this without insurance.
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Good! ... The common sense approach :cool:
 
neil_g said:
I'm only going to drive to the shops and back once, I don't need car insurance what's the worst that can happen..

:thinking:

;)
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Hardly the same thing... is it? Taking a car on a road without insurance is illegal! taking photos in a hotel isn't :thinking:
 
Alastair said:
No.. you should be declaring the value of the meal and paying the tax due on the value. So if the meal is £100 and you're tax rate is 20%, then you owe the tax man £20 in January (slightly more as there's NI as well).

The insurance would be tax deductible.
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Alastair, stop worrying about me paying the tax man, I am a member of public not a member of parliament.
 
neil_g said:
Law aside, it's the same attitude towards risk
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Not really? The hotel is 100% responsible for it's own H&S and even responsible for the contractor on site... i.e. the photographer. This sounds like a cushty deal so it's the hotel that's responsible... :cool:
 
Splog said:
Not really? The hotel is 100% responsible for it's own H&S and even responsible for the contractor on site... i.e. the photographer.
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Hmm, I'm afraid that won't cut it with the insurance world ... or the courts, in fact in this deal I would say that both the hotel owner and the photographer risk serious consequences in the unlikely event of a 'disaster' happening.
The hotel owner should ensure that all insurances, risk assessments and method statements are in place and the photographer should be presenting these to the hotel owner.
Neil's analogy of car insurance, isn't such a bad example as H&S in the work place is enshrined in law and the effects of uninsured risks going wrong have the same widespread possible consequences i.e. damage/death to 3rd parties or property, not just the uninsured person.
 
The way I look at it is that life is all about risk, and risk cannot be totally eliminated really.

The main thing is identifying big risks from small ones and acting accordingly.
 
Ok, forget Dinner and wine. What if I was staying at the hotel, took some pictures and posted them on Trip Adviser, maybe add them to my Flickr account too. Do I still need insurance just in case someone trips over my camera bag and dies?




?
 
Mmmmmmmm. well said Steve. not! Builders/decorators are contracted to the hotel. Payed or a freebie meal..... You need it in writting or a job sheet signed by the hotel.

So if you leave your camera bag in the way and a gormless drunk guest trips over falls on serving trolly goes down the corridor through French doors down the garden and lands in the swimming pool with a Rose bush sticking out of her Arse, guess who the law suit is aimed at???

NOT THE HOTEL. Pro or a partimer or non pro. You are liable.

Advice to Chris is to call an insurance company under Steves name and ask, as it is one day only what is best to do.

That way you know whats what.
 
boliston said:
The way I look at it is that life is all about risk, and risk cannot be totally eliminated really.

The main thing is identifying big risks from small ones and acting accordingly.
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Acting accordingly:

  • The risk only affect you - do what you like!
  • The risk could affect others (as here) act sensibly (e.g. don't put your home and family at risk because you can't pay the lawsuit) and with due regard for others who you may affect.
 
It's up to you what you decide to do or not do Chris but if you choose not to take out insurance at this time but it does lead onto something more regular then it may be worth while looking at, it doesn't cost a fortune and there are plenty of companies offering the service (I shot a wedding uninsured and for free but I am being paid for the next one so have taken out insurance and I have another one booked in so now is the time to make sure it is in place)
 
gramps said:
Hmm, I'm afraid that won't cut it with the insurance world ... or the courts, in fact in this deal I would say that both the hotel owner and the photographer risk serious consequences in the unlikely event of a 'disaster' happening.
The hotel owner should ensure that all insurances, risk assessments and method statements are in place and the photographer should be presenting these to the hotel owner.
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Yes, if the hotel and photographer have method statements and risk assessments in place then joint liability would be most likely. If the photographer failed to work to his method statement then I think he would be held responsible as the hotel had carried out it's obligations. If however the hotel did nothing and just allowed the photographer to do as he pleases and someone was hurt as a result, I would guess the hotel would be held responsible.

Daryl said:
Mmmmmmmm. well said Steve. not! Builders/decorators are contracted to the hotel. Payed or a freebie meal..... You need it in writting or a job sheet signed by the hotel.

So if you leave your camera bag in the way and a gormless drunk guest trips over falls on serving trolly goes down the corridor through French doors down the garden and lands in the swimming pool with a Rose bush sticking out of her Arse, guess who the law suit is aimed at???

NOT THE HOTEL. Pro or a partimer or non pro. You are liable.

Advice to Chris is to call an insurance company under Steves name and ask, as it is one day only what is best to do.

That way you know whats what.
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No, the hotel is responsible for making sure the contractor carries out the work in a safe and responsible manner.
 
I feel that I hardly dare to mention this, but...

Don't forget that if you are going to drive there then you'll need to ensure that you have "occasional business use" on your car insurance too.

(I really hate the way the culture of blame has got into our very souls. :shake:, where will it all end?)
 
Splog said:
Yes, if the hotel and photographer have method statements and risk assessments in place then joint liability would be most likely. If the photographer failed to work to his method statement then I think he would be held responsible as the hotel had carried out it's obligations. If however the hotel did nothing and just allowed the photographer to do as he pleases and someone was hurt as a result, I would guess the hotel would be held responsible.
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Sorry but there is no way that the tog would walk away leaving the hotel owner to carry the can unless possibly if he was an employee of the hotel. As an outside contractor he will be either solely or jointly liable.
 
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