Do you think Nikon will make an SLR again

[SFTPhotography]

Since the release of the D850, we've had the Z6 and Z7, and now Z6 and Z7ii

A new full frame SLR body is due. Do you think they will make another, perhaps with the later sensors that will go into Z7iii etc. All the marketing stuff seems to promote Z stuff, not the F stuff so do you think th e D850 marks the end in a long line of incredible cameras?

 

[john.margetts]

Over at Photrio, there is a discussion as to whether Nikon are likely to make a new proper SLR seeing as digital SLR sales are tanking and film camera sales are booming (alas, nearly all second hand). It appears that Leica are struggling to keep up with demand for their Leica M-A film cameras.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I thought you meant film Steve, and my answer would be similar to John's in that if they see the market is strong enough then yes - or at least they could start to reproduce great ones from 20+ years ago, I doubt they need upgrading much and who wouldn't like a 'new' FE2

As for more DSLRs, then no. There are some obvious benefits of mirrorless that make the decision to buy a mirrored camera odd, so maybe the D850 is the last of its line

Frankly, I don't care. All I want is something that gives me the best of what I want from it, quite how it does it is irrelevant to me

Dave

 

[darkroom12]

Nikon, like all manufacturers are in the business to make money. No more no less. If mirrorless is the way they want to go then so be it, but I won't be following them.

I have grown up (it has taken me 6 decades to manage that) and the SLR film or (say it quietly) digital in the present form suit my purposes. I would prefer a new SLR to be a film one to replace the F100 or even the F6/F4 but I think I would be tilting at windmills if I thought that is likely to happen. I don't think I am in any danger of running out of cameras it is more like there could be a sudden demise of film if they find any more of the chemicals to process them are placed on a banned list.

 

[toohuge]

The D780 was released following the D850....

In all honesty, I would really like to see a pro level body, with the mirrorless tech we have seen in the D780. I don't have a huge need for a lot of the mirrorless tech, but I really appreciate the eye-af ability especially with the legacy f-mount glass. The eye-af on some of the larger, heavier f-mount glass makes shooting a lot easier and allows more creativity imo as it allows for different angles etc. without necessarily needing the view finder.

 

[Retune]

Over at Photrio, there is a discussion as to whether Nikon are likely to make a new proper SLR seeing as digital SLR sales are tanking and film camera sales are booming (alas, nearly all second hand). It appears that Leica are struggling to keep up with demand for their Leica M-A film cameras.

I wonder how many Leica actually sell, though? I suspect the market for a £4000 film camera without a meter is somewhat limited. They could be struggling to keep up with demand if they make 100 a year and there are orders for 150.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Nikon finances are in dire shape and sales are down. They are in the consolidation territory so that just means Z pro line and that is that I'm afraid. At least it translates into much better lenses in Nikon's case. Sadly Nikon's insists on using outdated mediocre spec EVF and making toy sized Z bodies which puts me off completely. Personally A7RIV would be a better pick today. Your dSLR is no worse because of new ones and if anything you can probably soon pick up d850 for much less in some clearance sale.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I wonder how many Leica actually sell, though? I suspect the market for a £4000 film camera without a meter is somewhat limited. They could be struggling to keep up with demand if they make 100 a year and there are orders for 150.

I wonder how many are seeing any use at all. I suspect most will sit in the box unopened and be sold for 2x or 3x in a decade because of the red dot.

 

[Kaolin]

I suspect they will replace the D850, as development would have started a couple of years ago and the replacement might be almost ready. There may even be a D7 as they are pretty slow rolling out Z lens, but that might be it. It could be in a couple of years Nikon produce a follow up to the Df (or similar) as they seem very proud of all the f-mount lens I doubt they will just stop making bodies - Nikon seem more governed by their heritage compared to Canon who have form in dropping lens mounts...

Personally I don't see any really compelling reasons to jump from f-mount at the moment as running my existing lens on an adapter is just another potential problem and swapping lens would cost a fortune and many of them are not available. I am torn between selling a few lens whilst they still have value or hanging on and waiting for the value to drop and picking up a few exotics I could not otherwise justify - 200 f2 200-400 again and 200 macro spring to mind...

 

[Retune]

I wonder how many are seeing any use at all. I suspect most will sit in the box unopened and be sold for 2x or 3x in a decade because of the red dot.

I wouldn't be surprised. If you want something to use, you can pick up an M2/3/4 for a fraction of the price, and you have more or less the same camera.

 

[nandbytes]

I don't think so and IMO they'd be foolish to do so too instead of focusing of making better more powerful Z bodies.

 

[nandbytes]

Nikon finances are in dire shape and sales are down. They are in the consolidation territory so that just means Z pro line and that is that I'm afraid. At least it translates into much better lenses in Nikon's case. Sadly Nikon's insists on using outdated mediocre spec EVF and making toy sized Z bodies which puts me off completely. Personally A7RIV would be a better pick today. Your dSLR is no worse because of new ones and if anything you can probably soon pick up d850 for much less in some clearance sale.

I don't think EVF is outdated. In fact Nikon's EVFs are rather nice to use in Z7/ii.

Also as for the body they are considered some of the best for ergonomics and size. Just perfect without being too large or too small to hold. And I'd agree with that, they are really nice to handhold.

For me the main problem with Z7/ii is their lens and AF. If you are happy with the former and not too bothered about what the latter to need better they are great!

 

[Lensflare]

Nikon, like all manufacturers are in the business to make money. No more no less. If mirrorless is the way they want to go then so be it, but I won't be following them.

I have grown up (it has taken me 5 and a bit decades to do) and the SLR film or (say it quietly) digital in the present form suit my purposes. I would prefer a new SLR to be a film one to replace the F100 or even the F6 but I think I would be tilting at windmills if I thought that is likely to happen. I don't think I am in any danger of running out of cameras it is more like there could be a sudden demise of film if they find any more of the chemicals to process them are placed on a banned list.

I thought you could develop film in coffee. Green (eco) photography!

 

[Retune]

I don't suppose it will ever happen, especially now that the future of the dSLRs is perhaps limited, but it would be nice to have an F7 that is compatible with recent technology like electronic aperture and AF-P lenses. And might as well stick that foldable AI tab on it to make it backward-compatible with pre-AI lenses, like the Df. Choosing lenses that will work with both dSLRs and film SLRs has now become something of a minefield.

 

[toohuge]

I don't think EVF is outdated. In fact Nikon's EVFs are rather nice to use in Z7/ii.

Also as for the body they are considered some of the best for ergonomics and size. Just perfect without being too large or too small to hold. And I'd agree with that, they are really nice to handhold.

For me the main problem with Z7/ii is their lens and AF. If you are happy with the former and not too bothered about what the latter to need better they are great!

Reviews of the new s line Z lenses have been really positive.....

The main issue for me with any of the mirrorless cameras is battery life. I'm able to shoot an entire day, comfortably with a pro Nikon body without issue. I've never run a battery out with my workflow. I couldn't do the same with a mirrorless camera and I am not prepared to carry loads of batteries around with me and faff around changing them over, or having a charging routine.

 

[darkroom12]

I thought you could develop film in coffee. Green (eco) photography!

Yes that's as maybe for B&W but the technology has not caught up with colour prints yet.

 

[Ben johns]

Reviews of the new s line Z lenses have been really positive.....

The main issue for me with any of the mirrorless cameras is battery life. I'm able to shoot an entire day, comfortably with a pro Nikon body without issue. I've never run a battery out with my workflow. I couldn't do the same with a mirrorless camera and I am not prepared to carry loads of batteries around with me and faff around changing them over, or having a charging routine.

I obviously don’t know how you use your camera but I have a a6000 and it’s really not that bad, 2 batteries is usually plenty. It won’t be as good as a DLSR but I’ll never go away from mirrorless, definitely not for the sake of carrying an extra couple of batteries

 

[darkroom12]

As I mentioned I have an F6, but when compared to an F4 it actually feels ever so slightly flimsy. Yes it is heavy but that is the nature of the beast. There is very little the F4 does that has been superseded by the F6, but there is quite a bit on the F4 that doesn't appear on the F6. (Mirror lock up for one) And don't mention the batteries on the F6!

 

[nandbytes]

Reviews of the new s line Z lenses have been really positive.....

The main issue for me with any of the mirrorless cameras is battery life. I'm able to shoot an entire day, comfortably with a pro Nikon body without issue. I've never run a battery out with my workflow. I couldn't do the same with a mirrorless camera and I am not prepared to carry loads of batteries around with me and faff around changing them over, or having a charging routine.

Its not the problem with sharpness, the problem is the AF and size. Nikon Z lenses while not bad at all aren't as fast focussing or as small as my sony lenses. below are two of my most used primes and what Nikon would have me replace them with
buy the big mount they said, smaller sharper lenses they said.... the two lenses below are some of the sharpest and smallest in their class and they are f1.4 vs nikon's f1.8 lenses

go figure....

And talking about battery sony's FZ100 batteries last about twice as much as canon/nikon ones. so that's kinda nice too though not a major deal breaker for me.

 

[Retune]

As I mentioned I have an F6, but when compared to an F4 it actually feels ever so slightly flimsy. Yes it is heavy but that is the nature of the beast. There is very little the F4 does that has been superseded by the F6, but there is quite a bit on the F4 that doesn't appear on the F6. (Mirror lock up for one) And don't mention the batteries on the F6!

The F4 is arguably Nikon's best manual focus body.

 

[john.margetts]

I wonder how many Leica actually sell, though? I suspect the market for a £4000 film camera without a meter is somewhat limited. They could be struggling to keep up with demand if they make 100 a year and there are orders for 150.

The way that production lines work, they will make cameras in the order of thousands at a time. Retooling between models is expensive.

 

[toohuge]

I obviously don’t know how you use your camera but I have a a6000 and it’s really not that bad, 2 batteries is usually plenty. It won’t be as good as a DLSR but I’ll never go away from mirrorless, definitely not for the sake of carrying an extra couple of batteries

I understand that.

I shoot mainly large sporting events - where I could start as early as 8am and finish approx 12 hours later.... I am not a unique use case nor am I the majority... however for others in my situation, battery life etc. is a nightmare scenario to have to comprehend

 

[Ben johns]

I understand that.

I shoot mainly large sporting events - where I could start as early as 8am and finish approx 12 hours later.... I am not a unique use case nor am I the majority... however for others in my situation, battery life etc. is a nightmare scenario to have to comprehend

Yea to be honest that would be annoying. For what I do mirrorless is fine. I think the new Sony’s are meant to have good batteries but can’t speak for Nikon, never used one

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I don't think EVF is outdated. In fact Nikon's EVFs are rather nice to use in Z7/ii.

Also as for the body they are considered some of the best for ergonomics and size. Just perfect without being too large or too small to hold. And I'd agree with that, they are really nice to handhold.

For me the main problem with Z7/ii is their lens and AF. If you are happy with the former and not too bothered about what the latter to need better they are great!

The EVF is previous gen. Both Canon and Sony have double spec ones in top models. This means a lot. Nikon had another chance to fix it in ii series but they chose not to.

As for size I think this will be clearly a personal preference, and for me too small is totally unacceptable which it is. You'll see this trend very clearly when current D6 / 1Dx users start switching and need to grasp their tool with 2 fingers. That just won't fly.

 

[nandbytes]

The EVF is previous gen. Both Canon and Sony have double spec ones in top models. This means a lot. Nikon had another chance to fix it in ii series but they chose not to.

As for size I think this will be clearly a personal preference, and for me too small is totally unacceptable which it is. You'll see this trend very clearly when current D6 / 1Dx users start switching and need to grasp their tool with 2 fingers. That just won't fly.

Sony have 9.6million dot EVF or whatever it is in a body that's the worst for stills!
Ok A7RIV has 5.6 million dot EVF but if you look at other Sony bodies inc. A9/ii they are all on same level or below nikon's EVF offering. the optics that goes in front of the nikon's EVF is better than canon and sony and unlike them their EVF also doesn't drop in resolution white shooting action (though they can't shoot as fast as canon or sony). its all give and take i think.

How many people actually buy D6/ 1Dx compared to other "normal" FFs?
they do have the options of adding a grip.

Sony A9 series have done well without having the same form factor. I think it's just an ideology shift that will happen over time...
The SLRs where never that big (or rather similar size to current mirrorless bodies) and people somehow were happy then DSLRs for technical reasons were fatter to be able to fit all the components/electronics along with the mirror. people started to make themselves feel that was "normal" and that was the "right size"
I never felt happy with DSLRs having had a SLR before. bodies like Z6/7 feel a lot more natural for me. Of course like you say its all personal... but I think given enough time people you will have more people complaining how fat DSLRs were and how bodies like Z6/7 are the right size (that's just my 2p, could all be b******t )

 

[Retune]

The way that production lines work, they will make cameras in the order of thousands at a time. Retooling between models is expensive.

I doubt they have some massive production line for these things. Even in the film era, I think M6 production peaked at something like 14,000 a year. In some years, it was less than half that. Today I can't see them selling more than some small fraction of the numbers they could shift when film was the only option, especially at these boutique prices. Leica have always had the ability to produce small batches of cameras, and until recently offered individual customised bodies under the 'A La Carte' programme. But a small sideline could be difficult to scale up if demand were to increase, as it sounds like it may now have done.

 

[SFTPhotography]

It is the size of the Z mount bodes that bother me, I just like bigger cameras. I prefer the DSLR - the OVF is a big part of it, but the mirror comes with keeping a hell of a crap of the sensor. Sharper lenses won't go a miss but I shoot Sigma ART primes and F2.8 zooms only. They ain't lacking. It might be an 850 or one more F mount newer body hopefully then something altogether different afterwards.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Sony have 9.6million dot EVF or whatever it is in a body that's the worst for stills!
Ok A7RIV has 5.6 million dot EVF but if you look at other Sony bodies inc. A9/ii they are all on same level or below nikon's EVF offering. the optics that goes in front of the nikon's EVF is better than canon and sony and unlike them their EVF also doesn't drop in resolution white shooting action (though they can't shoot as fast as canon or sony). its all give and take i think.

the refresh rate is just as important. Canon - 120fps. Nikon - only 60... I'd like even more to be honest.

How many people actually buy D6/ 1Dx compared to other "normal" FFs?
they do have the options of adding a grip.

Sony A9 series have done well without having the same form factor. I think it's just an ideology shift that will happen over time...
The SLRs where never that big (or rather similar size to current mirrorless bodies) and people somehow were happy then DSLRs for technical reasons were fatter to be able to fit all the components/electronics along with the mirror. people started to make themselves feel that was "normal" and that was the "right size"

Interesting that you mentioned film SLRs. My very brief encounter only involved 3 canon models. EOS 5 form factor was pretty much identical to 5D series, only made of cheaper plastics. T90 - actually a fraction bigger with built in minigrip - kind of in between 1D and 5D. Going back even further there was A-1, with hefty steel? body. Form factor was smaller and very very uncomfortable but there was an all encompassing huge grip that I'm sure most pros bought, not only for comfort but also the obligatory motor drive. From memory it was both larger and heavier than old 1DsII (much heavier than 1DX) in that configuration. Nikon F series I think had similar dimensions. I am not sure what else was out there, but I think it was either function or small form factor - never both. We have come a long forward way since then.

Sony is clearly moving back towards larger form factor since A7 mk1. Panasonic is quite hefty and even Canons are somewhere in between which probably makes Z6 & Z7 some of the smallest full frame cameras on the market. The mk1s aren't even compatible with grip. Luckily the ii are. I don't know if it helps much, but then there is pretty much no choice. Hopefully the market will do its thing and we will have a broader range of sizes to choose even within each brand.

I think the only reason why 1Dx / D6 are not as popular is purely down to cost, and secondarily the low-ish res sensor. The form factor is far superior to ordinary gripped SLR, making them smaller, lighter and more durable. The grips just never attach cleanly and leave a lot to be desired. I owned one for 6 years and just sold it with less than 24 hours of use.

 

[nandbytes]

the refresh rate is just as important. Canon - 120fps. Nikon - only 60... I'd like even more to be honest.

Interesting that you mentioned film SLRs. My very brief encounter only involved 3 canon models. EOS 5 form factor was pretty much identical to 5D series, only made of cheaper plastics. T90 - actually a fraction bigger with built in minigrip - kind of in between 1D and 5D. Going back even further there was A-1, with hefty steel? body. Form factor was smaller and very very uncomfortable but there was an all encompassing huge grip that I'm sure most pros bought, not only for comfort but also the obligatory motor drive. From memory it was both larger and heavier than old 1DsII (much heavier than 1DX) in that configuration. Nikon F series I think had similar dimensions. I am not sure what else was out there, but I think it was either function or small form factor - never both. We have come a long forward way since then.

Sony is clearly moving back towards larger form factor since A7 mk1. Panasonic is quite hefty and even Canons are somewhere in between which probably makes Z6 & Z7 some of the smallest full frame cameras on the market. The mk1s aren't even compatible with grip. Luckily the ii are. I don't know if it helps much, but then there is pretty much no choice. Hopefully the market will do its thing and we will have a broader range of sizes to choose even within each brand.

I think the only reason why 1Dx / D6 are not as popular is purely down to cost, and secondarily the low-ish res sensor. The form factor is far superior to ordinary gripped SLR, making them smaller, lighter and more durable. The grips just never attach cleanly and leave a lot to be desired. I owned one for 6 years and just sold it with less than 24 hours of use.

I don't think we'll ever meet eye-to-eye on the form factor. Sony have gone larger but they have just now released a small FF A7C which I own.
I'd never buy a panasonic or any 1kg body for that matter. As per picture above i like to shoot small, fast, sharp prime lenses. Makes no sense to me having bodies that weigh twice as much as my lenses.

Canon's are border line and I am still interested in R5. just doesn't make sense for me to buy it from a monetary point of view. I have to spend £2K extra over my A7Riv. And that's just the body.

Nikon as mentioned above don't do lenses for my tastes while i do like their bodies.

 

[nandbytes]

It is the size of the Z mount bodes that bother me, I just like bigger cameras. I prefer the DSLR - the OVF is a big part of it, but the mirror comes with keeping a hell of a crap of the sensor. Sharper lenses won't go a miss but I shoot Sigma ART primes and F2.8 zooms only. They ain't lacking. It might be an 850 or one more F mount newer body hopefully then something altogether different afterwards.

I am bit of a EVF fanboi so OVF is mostly lost me. Though I appreciate a lot of people still do like it.

Pentax are pretty adamant on keeping DSLRs as their 1st class citizens. they also use sony sensors much like nikon. they have some nice prime lenses too.
So for landscapes considering you don't need the AF system nikon/sony/canon provides you could probably feel more at home with them in the future.

 

[myotis]

do you think th e D850 marks the end in a long line of incredible cameras?

Nikon Rumors has the D870 forecast for next year, and it has been suggested that the recent $500 reduction on the D850 (which apparently resulted in all D850s in the US being sold out) is seen as preparation for the D870. But I did think they also predicted the Z8/9 would be out before the D870, which Nikon also need to get out so we can see what a high end Nikon mirrorless will look like.

In spite of the focus on the Zs, it seems that Nikon are still selling a lot of DSLRs and lenses, and although I can't find it now, the last financial report showed that with the restructuring and if you add non-mirrorless ILC sales to the mirrorless ones that everyone focusses on, Nikon are considered to be doing pretty well at the moment.

 

[SFTPhotography]

I am bit of a EVF fanboi so OVF is mostly lost me. Though I appreciate a lot of people still do like it.

Pentax are pretty adamant on keeping DSLRs as their 1st class citizens. they also use sony sensors much like nikon. they have some nice prime lenses too.
So for landscapes considering you don't need the AF system nikon/sony/canon provides you could probably feel more at home with them in the future.

And I like primes. It's a good suggestion. TBH if I was going Pentax I'd look at the 645 system though Proper camera, proper sensor

 

[nandbytes]

And I like primes. It's a good suggestion. TBH if I was going Pentax I'd look at the 645 system though Proper camera, proper sensor

GFX100 all the way for me
still hoping i win the premium bond lottery

 

[SFTPhotography]

GFX100 all the way for me
still hoping i win the premium bond lottery

10k just for the body

50mp for half the price. I'm now doing man maths to see whether this is actually an option. It's not THAT much more than a new DSLR.

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Quite a lot here and yes more expensive than a new Z system...but if I had to go mirrorless this looks a very good way to go. 2 bodies and a 100-200 and 32-64 would actually cover me very well. I also prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio of the 3:2 of a 35mm based system. In terms of what an A7R4 would cost along with some G master 2.8 zooms, this looks not a budget alternative but not a huge leap either, and for many landscapers this system could serve them very very well indeed.

I am feeling the love for this

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Nikon Rumors has the D870 forecast for next year, and it has been suggested that the recent $500 reduction on the D850 (which apparently resulted in all D850s in the US being sold out) is seen as preparation for the D870. But I did think they also predicted the Z8/9 would be out before the D870, which Nikon also need to get out so we can see what a high end Nikon mirrorless will look like.

In spite of the focus on the Zs, it seems that Nikon are still selling a lot of DSLRs and lenses, and although I can't find it now, the last financial report showed that with the restructuring and if you add non-mirrorless ILC sales to the mirrorless ones that everyone focusses on, Nikon are considered to be doing pretty well at the moment.

These are only rumors. They are / were likely testing D8x0 prototype just as Canon were playing with 5D mkV until it basically got canned before reaching the assembly lines: a decision made by marketing or finance departments. It may not be one that I personally wanted but one that we have to accept as reality.
I am not surprised at all that nikon are still selling many dSRLs considering their currently narrow and one-sided Z lineup. The question they need to be asking is however how well would D8x0 be selling in 2022? 2023? even 2024? We know the canon's decision already as they are slightly ahead in this game. I think once the lenses really all go mainstream that will be the main draw to get the new and by then expanded system.
Of course nikon might choose to differentiate from canon and sony and keep making dSLRs. I feel that their finances will dictate them to play safe and follow the rest. Only Canon cash reserves could have really pulled this off.
Pentax / Ricoh aren't selling many cameras and their user base is small in comparison. Their market analysis may suggest a different path for their offerings. It's however largely irrelevant to most of us. 645 may be all and good except somewhat small lens lineup. It's not a bad 2nd system to get particularly if it can be had cheaply. I'd be researching their glass and any sharpness issues before making the move. At these resolutions all faults are greatly magnified in the periphery.

 

[myotis]

These are only rumors.

Yes, but they also tend to be pretty good at getting it right, and its' hard to see Nikon continuing with DSLRs once they have mirrorless replacements for the D850 and D6 on the market.

It seems they have four different Z8/Z9 prototypes being user tested at the moment (again according to Nikon Rumours, as it's the only Nikon news site I look at) so the D6 and the rumoured D870 may well be the last DSLRs from Nikon.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Yes, but they also tend to be pretty good at getting it right, and its' hard to see Nikon continuing with DSLRs once they have mirrorless replacements for the D850 and D6 on the market.

It seems they have four different Z8/Z9 prototypes being user tested at the moment (again according to Nikon Rumours, as it's the only Nikon news site I look at) so the D6 and the rumoured D870 may well be the last DSLRs from Nikon.

From my point of view I like to get value from my lenses, I've got a ton of F mount gear, so probably one more DSLR body upgrade for to last another 6 years maybe, then go medium format. I've got a few more years with the glass I've got before I change system...

If no further DSLR's from Nikon I'll run D810's (still a great FF camera) for a few more years (whilst saving furiously) then probably move to Fuji Medium format and just lump the smaller form factor knowing I am getting a beautiful sensor out of it.

 

[woof woof]

I honestly can not guess how many DSLR's are to come but in a shrinking market with I assume for Nikon at least high costs and squeezed to non existent margins I wonder if they can spare the money and resources whilst trying to compete in mirrorless and also, frankly, stay in business. Maybe new (or refreshed and mildly tweaked) entry level DSLR's could make the most sense as the market for higher end DSLR's must be being put under pressure from all sides.

I do struggle to see the attraction of DSLR's, film SLR's yes but the DSLR I struggle with as it lacks the appeal of film, adds bulk and weight and lacks the advantages of mirrorless. Unless it's just the OVF that people want? I can understand an attraction to that but I prefer the many advantages that the EVF equipped mirrorless cameras bring.

 

[SFTPhotography]

I honestly can not guess how many DSLR's are to come but in a shrinking market with I assume for Nikon at least high costs and squeezed to non existent margins I wonder if they can spare the money and resources whilst trying to compete in mirrorless and also, frankly, stay in business. Maybe new (or refreshed and mildly tweaked) entry level DSLR's could make the most sense as the market for higher end DSLR's must be being put under pressure from all sides.

I do struggle to see the attraction of DSLR's, film SLR's yes but the DSLR I struggle with as it lacks the appeal of film, adds bulk and weight and lacks the advantages of mirrorless. Unless it's just the OVF that people want? I can understand an attraction to that but I prefer the many advantages that the EVF equipped mirrorless cameras bring.

Some like the extra weight and the big plus of the mirror is that it protects the sensor from dust bunnies...big time - for those who shoot stopped down it is a thing. Saves time in editing. OVF's are famililar to a lot, they feel natural to compose with. For many that is a plus...but I can see the lie of the land now...the bulky body actually makes hand holding easier, heavy body, light lens balances better than heavy lens, light body which is a problem with full frame sony things.

I am drawn to the medium format for the obvious, but also it cannot be too small by virtue of that big sensor. I liked the full frame panasonic 50mp thing from a handling point of view, I thought the Sony systems A7R3 and A7R2's I've encountered on workshops are awfully small and I didn't like the lay out at all. Full frame panasonic though vs that Fuji medium format and gut says bigger sensor for the same outlay. Wasn't sold on the form factor of the Z7 but price wise it's a step down from these systems...but I am finanically not in a terrible place so don't mind a more expensive system

 

[myotis]

From my point of view I like to get value from my lenses, I've got a ton of F mount gear, so probably one more DSLR body upgrade for to last another 6 years maybe, then go medium format. I've got a few more years with the glass I've got before I change system...

Well, my 55mm f2.8 micro-nikkor is now nearly 40 years old, which I bought new, so I think I'm with you on getting value for money from my lenses. All my lenses, with one exception are AFS or manual focus, so I would happily use an adaptor with a Z body. I know the Z lenses are excellent, but I've tested my two Ais micro-nikkors against the 60mm f2.8 micro-nikkor and the 100mm Canon L macro, and was surprised at how good my old micro-nikkors were.

A Fuji medium format also appeals, as I shoot mainly square and my existing manual focus Nikon and Zeiss lenses would work fine with an adapter on a Fuji.

But I'm in no hurry to change.