"Do you THINK Scotland will vote yes and gain Independence"

What do you THINK the result will be

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Raptor Mike said:
Fine. But when it all goes wrong, which it will, I hope we don't take them back. Otherwise its a case of the Scots thinking they can do better without the rest of the UK and screw what happens to them but if it goes wrong don't worry they'll take us back if it goes wrong.

There is so much we don't know eg currency. How rude to say they don't want the UK but they want our pound. How are they going to protect yourselves if something kicks off with a tiny army. What about the 8000 jobs lost when they removed trident? Even they're national bank is part owned by us and is going to leave Scotland in the case of an yes vote. Salmond is blagging it and doesn't have a clue.

The best thing for Scotland and the rest of the UK is the UK and I wish Scots would stop their whinging about the problems that the rest of us also have to put up with and instead of wasting tax payers money on this petty vote use it to help rebuild the UK as a whole.
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The jobs at Faslane are public sector jobs. As we know the public sector is fully funded by the private sector.

Scotland to thrive needs a small public sector, not a large one. The bare essentials really, a military, nurses, doctors and teachers. Sadly they won't do it this way but have a large public sector creating pensioners of the state , cue big social work projects, etcetera.

To me, Faslane is over resourced with lots of non jobs and over paid administrators etc. cut the fat out bad it would be efficient.

I believe the scots should have a military and bring back national service. But it should be a lean mean and efficient military with nuclear ability. Sadly though they'll blow it on social work and not attract good private sector employment for it's people
 
I'm just quietly hopeful that in the event of you winning, the t*** in the kilt who insists on playing bagpipes right outside my living room window after a England/Scotland 6 nations match will be denied entry for crimes against humanity.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
You mean Scottish Bank? One That is 81% owned by the UK Treasury? It's already being run from London. I think it should change its name to Royal Bank of England:D
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On that I agree with you.

What I don't see, yet, is other private sector businesses (foreign banks) wanting to HQ in Scotland and set up a Scottish banking proposition for the people of Scotland. No big business has actually embraced the thought of an indie Scotland and said in a yes vote they'd move from UK to Scotland to build cars, offer financial services and boost their retail predesrnce here. Why, the snp aren't promoting a good business environment for business but scaring them away with phrases like "it'll be a day of reckoning"

There's plenty of Scottish customers of banks that were HQd in Scotland leaving. Surely the scots won't want their money in a foreign bank. IMHO someone has to step up to the plate for them
 
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ST4 said:
On that I agree with you.

What I don't see, yet, is other private sector businesses (foreign banks) wanting to HQ in Scotland and set up a Scottish banking proposition for the people of Scotland. No big business has actually embraced the thought of an indie Scotland and said in a yes vote they'd move from UK to Scotland to build cars, offer financial services and boost their retail predesrnce here. Why, the snp aren't promoting a good business environment for business but scaring them away with phrases like "it'll be a day of reckoning"

There's plenty of Scottish customers of banks that were HQd in Scotland leaving. Surely the scots won't want their money in a foreign bank. IMHO someone has to step up to the plate for them
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Maybe the big businesses are actually waiting to see whats actually going to happen/be on offer before they announce any definite plans. Sensible if you ask me. Isn't reduced corporation tax good for business? Or reduced air passenger duty?
Only one person has mentioned anything about a "day of reckoning" and it was quickly rebuffed by Mr Salmond.
 
boyfalldown said:
I'm just quietly hopeful that in the event of you winning, the t*** in the kilt who insists on playing bagpipes right outside my living room window after a England/Scotland 6 nations match will be denied entry for crimes against humanity.
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I hope when we win, he's out every night:D
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Maybe the big businesses are actually waiting to see whats actually going to happen/be on offer before they announce any definite plans. Sensible if you ask me. Isn't reduced corporation tax good for business? Or reduced air passenger duty?
Only one person has mentioned anything about a "day of reckoning" and it was quickly rebuffed by Mr Salmond.
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Sensible, but with the current trends of leaving scotlands and CEO's saying prices would have to rise to do business in Scotland, I do worry.

Reduced corporation tax is good for business, yes, and the problem is whilst the SNP promote this, the left wing politics that are favoured here will not support it. Low corporation tax, thats a Tory thing. If people here supported it, and were in favour of it, there wouldn't be such an anti Torie thing here.
 
ST4 said:
Sensible, but with the current trends of leaving scotlands and CEO's saying prices would have to rise to do business in Scotland, I do worry.

Reduced corporation tax is good for business, yes, and the problem is whilst the SNP promote this, the left wing politics that are favoured here will not support it. Low corporation tax, thats a Tory thing. If people here supported it, and were in favour of it, there wouldn't be such an anti Torie thing here.
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Don't agree. The miners and poll tax are what caused a lot of the Tory hatred. Just because there are few Tory lovers, doesn't mean we would be against reducing corporation tax etc.
 
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So, a serious question regarding independence. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and forget all the bickering, insults etc etc, what do you guys think it would require in order for Scotland to make it a success in the longer term?
It's a serious question, so no far fetched fantasy type answers, or "stay with the union" etc.
 
boyfalldown said:
I'm just quietly hopeful that in the event of you winning, the t*** in the kilt who insists on playing bagpipes right outside my living room window after a England/Scotland 6 nations match will be denied entry for crimes against humanity.
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The definition of a gentleman - one who knows how to play the bagpipes, but decides not to
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
So, a serious question regarding independence. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and forget all the bickering, insults etc etc, what do you guys think it would require in order for Scotland to make it a success in the longer term?
It's a serious question, so no far fetched fantasy type answers, or "stay with the union" etc.
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I guess it will be down to how good their political leaders are
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
So, a serious question regarding independence. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and forget all the bickering, insults etc etc, what do you guys think it would require in order for Scotland to make it a success in the longer term?
It's a serious question, so no far fetched fantasy type answers, or "stay with the union" etc.
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Well, they'll need some support to stand on their own two feet.






At least until they sober up.
 
Byker28i said:
The definition of a gentleman - one who knows how to play the bagpipes, but decides not to
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Stay with the union ;)

but seriously if they went their own way, very quickly they need to build a stable business environment. Silly talk of 'a day of reckoning' is never going to encourage investment. That environment needs to be fostered in order to get close to what is promised. You need to look at why the banks are announcing they'll move headquarters to England and not dismiss it as a brass plaque move. I'm sure its because if Scotland does go independent it'll instantly cost more for them to borrow, so they've moved over for stability. how will you provide that?
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
So, a serious question regarding independence. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and forget all the bickering, insults etc etc, what do you guys think it would require in order for Scotland to make it a success in the longer term?
It's a serious question, so no far fetched fantasy type answers, or "stay with the union" etc.
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In all seriousness, and without trying to start a fight, I think you need a leader who cares more about the country than themselves. (And yes, I know you can argue that the UK currently doesn't have that but transition time will be brutal. Really, there are all kinds of things that will need a clear head.)

One article I read said that it's staggering that after 40 years of campaigning and maybe 2 years of electioneering that the "yes" campaign has devoted themselves entirely to winning the vote and not to plans for running the country when they win.

Scotland needs

1. An economic policy
2. A foreign relations policy
3. A defence policy

I don't really care what those policies are (apart from the fact that I live in a country that will have a land border with yours) but they need to be plausible, well thought out and solid. At the moment, unless I've missed something, you don't have any of those.
 
gadgeteer said:
I believe so. The problem is where do the Sub's park up?
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I thought they were self sufficient. So we can drive them around until they needs servicing. Not a long term solution but a quick fix. I bet the US have a decent port.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I thought they were self sufficient. So we can drive them around until they needs servicing. Not a long term solution but a quick fix. I bet the US have a decent port.
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Already covered in the other Scotland thread. They have their port just outside Jacksonville, huge population on base.
 
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Byker28i said:
Already covered in the other Scotland thread. They have their port just outside Jacksonville, huge population on base.
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Also New London, Connecticut.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Only one person has mentioned anything about a "day of reckoning" and it was quickly rebuffed by Mr Salmond.
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It wasn't really. If he'd genuinely meant it he'd have got rid of Sillars, not praise him. It's just a forewarning of what to expect.
 
boyfalldown said:
an aside - but a town only slightly less of a s*** hole then its neighbour Groton. Both are proper grim. I'll never get over how they used to say Thames either.
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Funny bunch generally in that area :LOL:
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
So, a serious question regarding independence. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and forget all the bickering, insults etc etc, what do you guys think it would require in order for Scotland to make it a success in the longer term?
It's a serious question, so no far fetched fantasy type answers, or "stay with the union" etc.
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1. Low corporation tax to attract business to build here
2. Industry. Scotland needs to attract car builders here, why are cars being made in the rUK but none built here. We do have the land and the people who can do it. How that is achieved, grants, discounts etc. We nearly got Hyundi to build cars near Edinburgh. We want good insdustry jobs here. These bring employment to communities, taxible saleries to the government. A win win.
3. A welfare state that caters for the genuinely disabled and unable to work, but not one that caters for the lazy/won't work.
4. Immigration points based system. We want to attract good people to Scotland. Not the dross that hides in container ships that come accross the chanel. A tougher welfare system would sort that. Illegal immigrants found sneaking in, shot dead on site.
5. Education reform. A higher standard of basic school education. Scrap the free uni idea, it is costly and its a choice based thing. There are people studying hopeless subjects being a drain on the state when they could be in FTE.
6. Low personal taxation. Want people to work and prosper here, reward them, not penalize them. Companies have high paid staff that make decisions, massive income taxes deter people from a country, not attract them.
7. Oil. Invest the revenues for the future. Yes a big chunk has to go to rUK. It still will, but the Scots need to invest the revenues into various stocks/shares/cash/bonds/property to ensure long term fiscal security.
8. Low airport taxes, something the SNP have proposed.
9. A small but efficient public sector. One that is run like an effective private sector company. Nurses, doctors, teachers, police officers, firebrigade. Excessive mutli tiered management and paper work heavy admin needs to go. Public sector employment costs the government, it doesn't pay into it.
9. Lower fuel taxes, Scotland has a rural economy and a thriving whisky thing. It needs to be more profitable, and more attractive to people to come here and for them to make more profits. More profits, more tax.
10. Renewable energy, it is all well and good for the rural areas where hydro electric can work. But for the higher demands of the central belt, nuclear power is the way.
11. 140mph speed limits. Cos I like 'em...
12. Alochol: somehow promote whisky drinking responsibly, but at the same time Scotlands population drink too much. The state of Glasgow at night, and the violence. It needs to stop. Heavy taxation, or hard punishment for drink related violence.
 
Byker28i said:
Kitsap (bangor) Washington, and Kings bay. georgia are thge only two US Trident bases I know of. They do have 4 nuclear ship yards.
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True...New London's just regular old subs afaik :)
 
boyfalldown said:
Tell me about it - I used to work there. There were some 'interesting' characters
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Did you live in an apaaatment, and drive a caaaa ?
The accent's like nails on a blackboard :LOL:

Anyway....I digress.....
 
ST4 said:
12. Alochol: somehow promote whisky drinking responsibly, but at the same time Scotlands population drink too much. The state of Glasgow at night, and the violence. It needs to stop. Heavy taxation, or hard punishment for drink related violence.
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Are you drunk??
 
ST4 said:
2. Industry. Scotland needs to attract car builders here, why are cars being made in the rUK but none built here. We do have the land and the people who can do it. How that is achieved, grants, discounts etc. We nearly got Hyundi to build cars near Edinburgh. We want good insdustry jobs here. These bring employment to communities, taxible saleries to the government. A win win.

4. Immigration points based system. We want to attract good people to Scotland. Not the dross that hides in container ships that come accross the chanel. A tougher welfare system would sort that. Illegal immigrants found sneaking in, shot dead on site.
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You see, this is where it all breaks down. All of those things (except maybe the speed limit) seem like motherhood and apple pie issues - what right thinking country wouldn't want them?

But point 4 is kind of incompatible with EU membership. You can set up any kind of points based scheme you like but you'd still have to grant right of abode to all Latvians, Poles and Romanians. (Plus lots of other countries, obvs, including England - it's just those are the ones trotted out every time people talk of immigration.) As a startling aside, go visit http://www.scotreferendum.com/ and tell me what their policy is on EU membership - I can't find one. Which seems odd.

Point 2....well I have to say, if Scotland can't currently persuade car manufacturers to build there, then what will change for the better following independence? Lack of clarity on whether Scotland will be in the EU or not and the currency in use isn't going to help. It's all possible but it won't be a quick thing. My guess is that a lot of the reluctance to build cars in Scotland comes down to geography. It's an awfully long way from a sizeable market (and yes, I know where Sunderland is) and a decent distance from suppliers. There really has to be an overwhelming reason to build stuff there. And that almost always means money (aka tax breaks, incentives, whatever you want to call them).

As for the rest of your wish list, it looks like a case of reducing taxation across the board while improving the efficiency of public spending. All good ideas and it would be a neat trick if somebody could pull it off.
 
JonathanRyan said:
You see, this is where it all breaks down. All of those things (except maybe the speed limit) seem like motherhood and apple pie issues - what right thinking country wouldn't want them?

But point 4 is kind of incompatible with EU membership. You can set up any kind of points based scheme you like but you'd still have to grant right of abode to all Latvians, Poles and Romanians. (Plus lots of other countries, obvs, including England - it's just those are the ones trotted out every time people talk of immigration.) As a startling aside, go visit http://www.scotreferendum.com/ and tell me what their policy is on EU membership - I can't find one. Which seems odd.

Point 2....well I have to say, if Scotland can't currently persuade car manufacturers to build there, then what will change for the better following independence? Lack of clarity on whether Scotland will be in the EU or not and the currency in use isn't going to help. It's all possible but it won't be a quick thing. My guess is that a lot of the reluctance to build cars in Scotland comes down to geography. It's an awfully long way from a sizeable market (and yes, I know where Sunderland is) and a decent distance from suppliers. There really has to be an overwhelming reason to build stuff there. And that almost always means money (aka tax breaks, incentives, whatever you want to call them).

As for the rest of your wish list, it looks like a case of reducing taxation across the board while improving the efficiency of public spending. All good ideas and it would be a neat trick if somebody could pull it off.
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EU membership isn't needed. Some decent trade deals can be made without EU membership, and through minimal taxation Scotland could attract suppliers, companies to build things here. If they cannot, they need to think long and hard about why, and how to fix it.
 
ST4 said:
EU membership isn't needed. Some decent trade deals can be made without EU membership, and through minimal taxation Scotland could attract suppliers, companies to build things here. If they cannot, they need to think long and hard about why, and how to fix it.
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Absolutely. But I can't imagine voting "yes" without a statement about whether Scotland plans to apply for EU membership or not.

IIRC the old position was "of course they will let us in" which was modified to "scaremongering" when the EU replied that there was actually no automatic right of membership for a devolved part of a member state.

Don't forget that adoption of the Euro is a condition of entry unless the state specifically negotiates a derogation - and in all cases so far for new entries they have effectively been granted a grace period to move to the adoption of the Euro. I.e. it's very unlikely that the EU would permit membership without a firm plan to move to the Euro.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Absolutely. But I can't imagine voting "yes" without a statement about whether Scotland plans to apply for EU membership or not.

IIRC the old position was "of course they will let us in" which was modified to "scaremongering" when the EU replied that there was actually no automatic right of membership for a devolved part of a member state.

Don't forget that adoption of the Euro is a condition of entry unless the state specifically negotiates a derogation - and in all cases so far for new entries they have effectively been granted a grace period to move to the adoption of the Euro. I.e. it's very unlikely that the EU would permit membership without a firm plan to move to the Euro.
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That would neatly answer the issue of currency. Question is for the Scots. Why swap your lead parliment from London to Brussells and why use your oil wealth to prop up the greeks.
 
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