Driving in Europe

ndwgolf

ndwgolf

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Neil Williams
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Guys,
Please see attached map of where I am initially planning on driving to and from. I am doing this completely bind as I have never driven in Europe before but was hoping to get some help on whether this route will be OK (# one priority is Safety, # 2 photography # 3 photography)
I have marked a few places with a blue star as these are places that I want to stop off at to visit friends.
I will start in the Uk and take a train to Paris. Stay in Paris 3 days then rent a car and drive the route on the map and end up in Rome 3 weeks later. Drop the car off in Rome and fly back home to Malaysia.
As always any advice, tips etc etc would be much appreciated
Neil
Europetrip1.jpg
 
Can't help with the rest, but Memmingen is a lovely little town. I was there Xmas 2007, the Christmas market was amazing!
 
TCR4x4 said:
Can't help with the rest, but Memmingen is a lovely little town. I was there Xmas 2007, the Christmas market was amazing!
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Thanks Tom, was planning to stay there for one night and spend the day sightseeing and shooting anything and everything:)
 
That looks like a fantastic road trip - make sure you've got a good lens, take plenty of photos and post a road trip review when you get back!
 
Daryl said:
You missed the Czech repubkic... Best food, best Beer and best women in the world.
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Have to agree with you. If I'd been single when I visited Prague I wouldn't have bothered coming home :)
 
The chances are that if you want to pick the car up in Paris and drop it off in Rome, the car hire company will charge you an arm and a leg, if they allow it all.

The car hire companies generally work on the pick and return being from the same location.
 
mortimerhill said:
The chances are that if you want to pick the car up in Paris and drop it off in Rome, the car hire company will charge you an arm and a leg, if they allow it all.

The car hire companies generally work on the pick and return being from the same location.
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I have already looked into it and I can get a brand new Renault for $1700 for up to one month (2 or 3 weeks is the same price) all in including free waver etc etc pick up in Paris and drop off anywhere in Europe
http://gofrance.about.com/od/transportation/a/Renault-Eurodrive-Buy-Back-Car-Leasing.htm
 
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Dunno how good you are at driving but picking up a brand new car in Paris then taking it to Italy...it will have some serious dents in it by the end...
 
desantnik said:
Dunno how good you are at driving but picking up a brand new car in Paris then taking it to Italy...it will have some serious dents in it by the end...
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So there I was driving through France when the GF says "Can we go to Italy for a day or two."

Half an hour after crossing the border there are blaring horns, a loud bang, traffic at a standstill and the two drivers involved in the fracas duking it out with baseball bats, kept in the cars.

She wanted to go back to France quite quickly after that!!!
 
Great looking trip - I'm envious!

Did some of the France/Switzerland bit recently but the only advice I can offer is re Switzerland. If you intend to use motorways you must have a vignette - no, not in the camera, on your windscreen! Something like 40CHF gives you a year's motorway use (available at the border). No discount for shorter periods.

Enjoy the trip and post a few photies in the future.
 
Do you drive on the left or right side of the road in Malaysia? If on the left, I would concentrate on the driving more than looking for photo locations until you're completely confident on what may be the "wrong" side of the road. Of course, if you're used to doing it wrong(!), you'll already be comfortable but still, I would concentrate more on driving than photo ops - some European drivers are (shall we say) a little erratic - especially rural French and most Italians! Not sure about Slovenians but I would imagine they're on a par with most Eastern Europeans - not great! Parisians aren't necessarily unpredictable - just remember that they ARE aiming at you with evil intent... In general, Germas are good drivers, but beware of big German executive cars - they're a menace wherever you are (think Mercs, Bimmers and Audis).

Have a great trip and take plenty of pics but remember, no pic is worth dying for!

Nod.
 
Nod said:
Do you drive on the left or right side of the road in Malaysia? If on the left, I would concentrate on the driving more than looking for photo locations until you're completely confident on what may be the "wrong" side of the road. Of course, if you're used to doing it wrong(!), you'll already be comfortable but still, I would concentrate more on driving than photo ops - some European drivers are (shall we say) a little erratic - especially rural French and most Italians! Not sure about Slovenians but I would imagine they're on a par with most Eastern Europeans - not great! Parisians aren't necessarily unpredictable - just remember that they ARE aiming at you with evil intent... In general, Germas are good drivers, but beware of big German executive cars - they're a menace wherever you are (think Mercs, Bimmers and Audis).

Have a great trip and take plenty of pics but remember, no pic is worth dying for!

Nod.
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We drive on the left in Malaysia. I guess driving on the right if you are right handed makes it easyier to not spill your beer when changing gear:D
 
We hired a car in France this year, and the biggest problem was getting used to sitting on the wrong side of the car - my left arm still hurts from trying to find the gear lever and handbrake through the driver's door.:LOL:

We have always driven our own car in France previously, and just changing the side of the road you drive on is no problem, because you are used to your own car. I saw last year that there is a company somewhere in France that hires right-hand drive cars for use there, specifically because they are easier to adapt to for UK drivers.

Trip looks fabulous, enjoy!
 
done some of that this year

reims lovely, then go south nancy also nice

go through vosges mountains to strassbourg. :)
 
I did a similar trip in 2007, but only as far as north Italy and a slightly more direct route.

Driving over in Europe is a great experience, so much more enjoyable than UK roads. Switzerland particularly, the smoothest roads I have ever driven on, drivers that actually understand simple lane discipline and fantastic scenery!

Parts of Italy were a little more hairy, especially when crossing the Swiss/Italian border, going from calm serene driving to motoring hell when you hit the Milan ring road in morning rush hour. Five lanes of nutters! :LOL:

Have fun!
 
My other suggestion for driving in Italy is don't get a big car! I had a fiat 500 and even that seemed bigon their narrow roads.

They are all crazy...even worse than Paris, which is crazy.

The hire car people were impressed I had no dents when I took it back...
 
i did a similar trip in March - loved it!!!

one thing i would say - from zurich or geneva - dont head back into france.

instead - go through lausanne (home of the olympics etc great harbour there)

then hit gt saint bernards pass - the view at the top is breath-taking and it is one of the best roads to drive on in europe

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?sadd...GRzGNDnTGE83_PA&oq=milan&gl=uk&mra=ls&t=m&z=8

something like that

alternatively - what we did is go from zurich to milan -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?sadd...rich&gl=uk&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=10&via=1&t=m&z=9

again fantastic scenery - u cud drive into st moritz - the road as it travels by the lakes is fantastic - when we drove past they were doing that wind surfing at silvaplana - just looked breath-taking.

once you get near lake como - since you have time on your side - you can get off the dual carriageway and actually use the streets by the lake itself

but i personally believe your making a mistake going via mont blanc (i assume thats why you chose that)

we did uk to milan via zurich and back via paris in 5 days. how i'd love to have 3 weeks of driving!!!

we're planning something like this again now

the most likely plan at the moment for me is fly to nice - drive through Monaco, stay in genoa, through to torino - hit the alps and into geneva and fly back.

can i ask how much your car rental is costing you and who its with? also to make you aware you may have to purchase a motorway pass in switzerland - a vignette - you buy 2nd hand ones from ebay they're valid from dec to dec. we didnt but we didnt get stopped either.

http://www.mountainpassions.com/summer/scenic_touring/grandes_alpes_1.html

also bear in mind - some mountain passes will be closed now for winter - worth checking up on what you need in terms of snow chains too - soemtimes you have to have these driving in certain countries (switzerland) and hire companies in france dont automatically include them.

one other piece of advice which you may want to include - your driving quite close to luxembourg - might be worth driving through there and filling up making use of their cheap prices.
 
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desantnik said:
My other suggestion for driving in Italy is don't get a big car! I had a fiat 500 and even that seemed bigon their narrow roads.

They are all crazy...even worse than Paris, which is crazy.

The hire car people were impressed I had no dents when I took it back...
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haha i had a merc vito van in milan!

the guy we rented the apartment off advised us to leave the hand brake down - that way the cars parking either side could nudge park themselves in as would you

paris was crazy though. we got out of paris around 4-5pm to make the ferry in calais - even we doubt we'd get out alive
 
mani said:
also bear in mind - some mountain passes will be closed now for winter - worth checking up on what you need in terms of snow chains too - soemtimes you have to have these driving in certain countries (switzerland) and hire companies in france dont automatically include them.

one other piece of advice which you may want to include - your driving quite close to luxembourg - might be worth driving through there and filling up making use of their cheap prices.
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Sir,
we are going in June so hopefully no snow
I will take your advice on filling up with gas in Lux
 
Yeah Benelux countries are cheapest for fuel.... and ciggies :D
 
Updated after the comments from this forum and the Leica Forum. These will just be landmarks and will take in as much on the way
map.jpg
 
Much better Neil! you'll enjoy it

One other amendment which just popped into my head - from Florence it might be worth while heading towards Livorno - and the leaning tower of Pisa. and then you can have a nice coastal drive down to rome too.

this is the one we're planning around March/April time

this

three days in Nice a night in genoa/la spezia then three in rome before flying back.

desantnik said:
Yeah Benelux countries are cheapest for fuel.... and ciggies :D
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i could not believe this!! I bought a pack of Dunhill internationals and the price was jaw dropping. didnt get a cheaper price anywhere else on the trip though.

I wanted to go to a cigar shop but we got to zurich rather late and wasnt able to make it.
 
Double check the standard car hire insurance to make sure it is valid for all countries you are planning to visit (and others near your route ;) ). I hired a car in Friedrichshafen once, Merc CLS, then found I couldn't drive into Italy as I planned - although I could drive almost anywhere in Europe.

I love Montreux, Lausanne & Geneva (emigration planned :cool:). But if you have to skip this area and take the more direct route then I can recommend the San Bernadino Pass. Don't use the tunnel - take the wibbly wobbly route ;)

Please consider Heidelberg and Freiburg on the way down. Personally, I would skip much of Italy and do more in Germany and Switzerland - and maybe include Liechtenstein and Austria. Milan is OK in the centre but the rest of it is a dump. And the thought of going anywhere near Venice gives me the creeps.

Don't worry about taking a large car into Italy. Large will give you protection ;) and the narrow streets in some towns are so narrow you wouldn't want to take them on, even in a Fiat peddle car.
 
Just had another look at your first map. The Italian Adriatic coast is nothing like it used to be so don't plan on doing a great deal along there - unless you're going to San Marino. In fact, I would say SM is a must. Stay in somewhere like Rimini (good for cheap hotels but the beach is not what it was) and take a day-long coach tour of San Marino.
 
desantnik said:
Dunno how good you are at driving but picking up a brand new car in Paris then taking it to Italy...it will have some serious dents in it by the end...
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I don't know why people have to put a big negative on things or try to frighten someone who wants to do a trip like this.
We have had at least one trip by car from England to France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy, each year since 1998 (mostly two or three trips a year), and have never had any problems.
Our latest trip totalled 2800 miles in July, and took us from Kent , then ferry to Calais, then drove to Colmar, Bologna (via Gotthard Pass), Sorrento, Sienna (plus a day trip into Firenze), Beaujolais (via Frejus Tunnel), Calais and then home.
Yet another memorable trip, and a good "christening" for our newly acquired 55 plate Skoda Octavia diesel, which averaged 56 MPG overall, including some quite high speed miles on Italian Autostrada.
The route was spectacular (glad we decided at the last minute to take the Gotthard Pass instead of the tunnel), and you see so much of each country.
 
andy700 said:
I don't know why people have to put a big negative on things or try to frighten someone who wants to do a trip like this.
We have had at least one trip by car from England to France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy, each year since 1998 (mostly two or three trips a year), and have never had any problems.
Our latest trip totalled 2800 miles in July, and took us from Kent , then ferry to Calais, then drove to Colmar, Bologna (via Gotthard Pass), Sorrento, Sienna (plus a day trip into Firenze), Beaujolais (via Frejus Tunnel), Calais and then home.
Yet another memorable trip, and a good "christening" for our newly acquired 55 plate Skoda Octavia diesel, which averaged 56 MPG overall, including some quite high speed miles on Italian Autostrada.
The route was spectacular (glad we decided at the last minute to take the Gotthard Pass instead of the tunnel), and you see so much of each country.
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Thanks Andy...........just what I wanted to hear
 
andy700 said:
I don't know why people have to put a big negative on things or try to frighten someone who wants to do a trip like this..
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Its not scare mongering, I didn't see a SINGLE car without major damage on the road there.

I drive a lot, I have driven probably best part of a million miles I have driven all over the place, short of some sort of third world country, I have never seen anything like it.

Only saw a few really HUGE smashes and people being cut out of cars, but it remains the biggest car-nage I've seen - and Paris is only slightly better (the rest of France is a different world)

I'm sure he'll be fine, but this is information you need to know especially when hiring a car because those buggers will screw you silly for the slightest scratch.
 
Looking at the map it might be nice to add these two places.............what do you thinkhttps://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Paris,+France&daddr=Luxembourg+to:confused:trasbourg,+France+to:Zurich,+Switzerland+to:Gotthard+Pass+to:Lausanne,+Switzerland+to:Milan,+Italy+to:Trieste,+Italy+to:Florence,+Bologna,+Italy+to:Venice,+Venezia,+Italy+to:Rome,+Province+of+Rome,+Italy&hl=en&ll=45.95115,8.063965&spn=10.983684,26.982422&sll=45.37951,8.063505&sspn=11.09505,26.982422&geocode=FSZ-6QIdXuQjACkPt-IGH27mRzFglIxow4ILBA%3BFeke-AIdr4ddAClHISHKuUWVRzHvktMC9mDbZA%3BFexR5QIdKjl2ACnBshheSciWRzEfJOcYMUgalw%3BFcrJ0gIdLkyCACkZor5JlwuQRzED3B_n8Y1u5g%3BFYqkxgId5KCCACkdTjQexnaFRzGhOdmA0NKCJA%3BFZrWxQIdfThlACnlp4nNPimMRzFe7uLKyT8X6w%3BFW6_tQId1CyMACnndRI_ScGGRzGNDnTGE83_PA%3BFX-OuAIdNDzSACkz9e3kBmt7RzFQK93UhCRqZg%3BFTxTpwIdMFesACFUYLpRbfyvsCnLoUfA-tN_RzFUYLpRbfyvsA%3BFU9ftQIde-u7ACmJPdbx2rF-RzEvEJK98Majew%3BFcpdfwId5iK-ACm7jpL5lmEvEzE4bmWTBncPuQ&oq=lux&mra=ls&t=m&z=6
 
Just come back from 4 days in Rome.

Can't speak for the rest of Italy but driving in Rome looked a nightmare. I didn't drive my self. But saw lots from an open top bus.

There seems to be very little rules, no particular lanes. People cutting across everywhere. Scooters in all directions.

The use of horns is different to this country, over there it's just to get attention or to say wake up and move (so you hear constant horns).

As a pedestrian you just walk out into the road and the cars stop or just swerve round you.

I saw people on scooters using iPhones while riding along one handed.
My taxi driver was on the phone and trying to write something down whilst going along.

Driving in Rome isn't something I fancy, it's a lovely city though. So much to see and take in, you could easily do 2 weeks and not see it all.

Good luck on your trip (especially in Rome).
 
My two penuth for what its worth;
Let some one else drive the back up car if you MUST have one, you ride a bike. That way you can stop at the road side every five minutes when the view changes. Just pull over, pull out the micro four thirds camera from under your leather and shoot! That way if you want to go down a little track for a better view - no problems, especially if you ware your cut off.

Oh, and if you must do Italy, do it by train. Its one of the few things they do really well. Driving or riding there is just a suicide trip.

Damn, just dribbled down me front thinkin of it all. Lucky bugger!
 
stumpy - its not as expensive as you'd think.

there were 7 of us - we put in £350 each - paid for the van hire, petrol, insurance, ferries, hotels and the food - ontop of that we had train tickets to venice and back plus public transport costs. that was over 5/6 days. and including going to a shisha place and getting absolutely ripped off with that smoking thing they claimed to be a shisha.

that was from Accrington, Lancashire - to dover through belgium, luxembourg, france, germany into zurich - stayed the night - then a drive over the alps to milan - had an apartment booked there - took the train to venice chilled there for the day - back into Milan, drove to st bernards pass, into lausanne (which was purely by luck we stopped there and drove down to ouchy looking for a pizza shop - luckiest break we had as it was gorgeous) then drove overnight to paris - slept in the van (this was due to mistiming - we didnt anticipate using the toll road but last minute change of mind we used it and it came to like 45 euros so we got there faster than we predicted) - toured paris landmarks though we didnt see all we could due to the fitness levels of some of the party and the heat

but for £350 all inclusive - it was fantastic. it was my dream holiday without a doubt - i'd planned it for years but never thought i'd be able to afford to do it. but with a lil help from my friends...
 
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desantnik said:
Its not scare mongering, I didn't see a SINGLE car without major damage on the road there.
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Oh deary, deary me!
Do you read the Daily Mail as well and believe all the horror stories which they print?
I don't think that you read my post fully. I have never had an accident on the Continent EVER, and I have been driving there regularly since the late 90's.
I have driven inside Rome (which is as you would expect, an absolute nightmare), Milan, Turin, Naples, Florence, Paris (another nightmare), Lyon (don't get me started on Lyon - Periphique/Rocade).
They do have a different attitude to driving over there, and they do stupid things, but it is up to you to drive defensively, and keep your wits about you.
The one thing that I would say, is that mobile phone use whilst driving in Italy is out of control, so watch out for cars drifting between lanes on the autostrada.
Have a good trip, and keep your eyes open, don't get flustered and chill out.
 
It would be good to retain flexibility on your plans as far as possible.
Even with three weeks you will wish at the end you'd stayed longer in some places along the route.
 
Hi, if you are looking for nice places for photography, i would change your way through Switzerland:
From Zurich i wouldn't drive to Geneva, but use a more direct way to Italy (best reason for that new way, there are at least two nice locations for capturing great pictures). My route would guide you from Zurich over the St. Gotthard ( first location) to Ticino, where there are a lot of nice places for shootings. But my hottest advice is to go to Valley Verzasca above Locarno. Verzasca is well known for the great river, the waterfalls, the wildwater, the amazing stones, and at the entrance of the Valley, an impressiv dam, well known from one of the James Bond Movies. On google pictures you will find a lot of exaples that show you what woderfull motifs are waiting to be captured.
 
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Rupek said:
Just come back from 4 days in Rome.

Can't speak for the rest of Italy but driving in Rome looked a nightmare. I didn't drive my self. But saw lots from an open top bus.

There seems to be very little rules, no particular lanes. People cutting across everywhere. Scooters in all directions.

The use of horns is different to this country, over there it's just to get attention or to say wake up and move (so you hear constant horns).

As a pedestrian you just walk out into the road and the cars stop or just swerve round you.

I saw people on scooters using iPhones while riding along one handed.
My taxi driver was on the phone and trying to write something down whilst going along.

Driving in Rome isn't something I fancy, it's a lovely city though. So much to see and take in, you could easily do 2 weeks and not see it all.

Good luck on your trip (especially in Rome).
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Scott, I have lived and drived in Asia for 20 years, what you mentioned above is nothing compaired to driving over here, try 5 on a bike with the driver sending text messages and being feed beer by his wife sat behind him.:D:D
 
Neil, I hope that you have a great trip, whichever route you choose. Here are a couple of images from my journey.

At the top of the Gotthard Pass

7682456112_8e495a4390_b.jpg


Sorrento, the old harbour

7682457922_586bd92743_b.jpg


Sienna

7684849654_e6cff354e2_b.jpg


View from the Ponte Vecchio, Florence

7686991528_b2dd096dd1_b.jpg


Cheers,

Andy
 
andy700 said:
Neil, I hope that you have a great trip, whichever route you choose. Cheers,

Andy
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Beautiful Andy………………we are really looking forward to going and hopefully in June we will get similar weather like what you must have done to get these great pictures
 
4wd said:
It would be good to retain flexibility on your plans as far as possible.
Even with three weeks you will wish at the end you'd stayed longer in some places along the route.
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4wd.The only thing I will have booked is
1. The train from Birmingham to Paris
2. Two nights’ accommodation in Paris
3. And the car hire to collect on the 3 day in Paris.
4. Flights from Rome back to Malaysia on the 21st day

All the rest will be done on the fly. I will have a GPS and plan to find a bed for the night each day wherever we end up, I will have a basic plan of drive from A to B this day and that day but be open to change if need be. Example if I arrive in Luxemburg on day 3 and plan to stay there for only one night and end up falling in love with the place then so be it we will stay longer, my only commitment will be to be at Rome airport on day 21 all the rest will be taken on the fly:):).
 
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