Exposure compensation vs Manual Mode

And what caused the meter reading to change? Will the altered settings result in a better exposure, or worse?
Sometimes the meter might change from someone else flash firing during metering (I've had that happen several times) which ruins the shot as it's over before the shutter opens.
Other times it might be the sun coming out, someone moving into/out of the light... In such cases the lighting typically remains during the shot so semi auto works better than manual.
 
Snip:

I agree, life's too short to peel a histogram!

To answer the OP's original question; I used to do gig photography back in the days of film. I'd be using 1000 ISO print film and struggling with low light conditions, plus the camera's meter would be trying to make the shots look like daylight. To get round this, I'd set the shutter speed to 1/125 and let the camera set the aperture as the stage lighting changed, but I'd dial in about a stop of exposure compensation to 'underexpose' the film to retain the atmosphere of the stage lighting and give life-like photos. Hope that makes sense to you?

So that's one example of where exposure compensation can be useful, while allowing the camera to deal with changing lighting conditions. Another example of when to use exposure comp would be snow covered scenes, where standard camera metering could make the snow look grey. (y)

Funny enough with an Incident meter Snow never looks grey, even without compensation. And dark ambience remains dark. camera meterin
And what caused the meter reading to change? Will the altered settings result in a better exposure, or worse?

This really needs to be put into context in terms of the type of photography/situation IMO.

The funny thing is that I generally prefer the exposure error that reflected metering and auto exposure generates. If I have a dark scene/subject the camera will automatically overexpose it recording as much light as possible (ETTR). If I have a bright subject/scene the camera will automatically underexpose it protecting highlights (ETTL). And if I have a mixed subject/scene the camera will balance them and protect highlights (Nikon's highlight weighted metering).

intelligent metering. is indeed very good, and getting better. For all practical purposes one could say it is good enough. as deviation is never more than minimal.
 
Funny enough with an Incident meter Snow never looks grey, even without compensation. And dark ambience remains dark. camera meterin

Trouble is, stage lighting at rock and blues gigs keeps changing, often very quickly, my camera's meter could keep up with that, there's no way you could do that with an incident light meter and change the camera's settings quickly enough manually in those days, as well as focusing manually at the same time! That's probably why I never saw anyone using an incident light meter at a gig.
 
It's a Godsend for me once the light gets low. Set the aperture for the required depth of field (dear camera, f1.2 is useless, f4 is what I want) set the shutter to the required freeze the action setting (dear camera, 1/60 is useless, I want 1/160 to freeze movement) and let the camera set the ISO and I'll turn the compensation dial if I disagree.

Sounds like you should be using Aperture priority with min shutter speed set ;)
 
Hey everyone, random question maybe ...

Why would you use exposure compensation instead of just moving to manual mode from AP, SS etc...


Kind Regards

Joe

Not sure if I can add much to this thread, but...

I change my working methods according to subject and mood.

1. "formal" landscape (tripod): manually selected ISO, shutter and aperture - exposure estimated with hand held spot meter. This is slow and meditative where I enjoy the ritual of making the photograph as much or even more than the photograph itself.

2. "informal" landscape (handheld): manually selected ISO and aperture, auto selected shutter speed (matrix metering) and exposure compensation dial. I find this quicker than full manual and it suits the different "feel" of being tripod free. The auto exposure means that as I move between different lighting situations the exposure is always somewhere close to the correct exposure and it's quick and easy to turn the exposure compensation dial to tweak exposure as I go.

3. Wildlife (handheld/tripod/monopod); Auto selected ISO, manually selected aperture and shutter speed, matrix metering. This is about speed, and I preselect the aperture and choose the shutter speed depending on the amount of subject movement while also watching the ISO readout so I can choose the best compromise between shutter speed and ISO.

I also use exposure compensation to add a fixed amount of plus or minus exposure, when needed.

Nikon's Highlighted weighted metering tool is assigned to a function key. Pressing the function key tells Nikon that the highlights are important in the scene (e.g the subject is a Great white egret) and it intelligently, using both colour and tonal values, adds a variable amount of exposure compensation depending on the scene. I have no idea what it actually does, but when a white bird suddenly takes off into a bright streak of sunlight and there is no time to make any exposure adjustments, quickly hitting the assigned function key assigned will save images that would otherwise be unusably overexposed.

Sometimes when things and lighting is changing very quickly, I use Aperture priority and auto ISO, with the exposure compensation dial. I'm less keen on this as it puts the camera in full control of the ISO. The control options on the Nikon, I mean can't have rapid (easy) exposure compensation and manual shutter speed control at the same time, and this is the compromise.

4. Street photography: I don't really do street photography but for this type of photography and for when I photographed my students of field trips etc. I set the aperture manually, and have the camera choose the shutter speed and ISO. The shutter speed is set to stay above 1/160 of. second and I use the exposure compensation dial. In these circumstances I am far more interested in "capturing the moment". I don't really care all that much about what happens to the ISO, as this is all about speed of capture and "good enough" technical quality.

This is different to the need for speed in the wildlife setup, because high technical quality is considered important for wildlife so keeping full control of your ISO is needed.

If I was photographing subjects not listed above, e.g a formal studio portrait, an air display, children playing, an environmental portrait, a dog portrait, a concert etc I would still probably choose whichever of the four set ups described above that seemed the best match.
 
Not sure if I can add much to this thread, but...

I change my working methods according to subject and mood.

1. "formal" landscape (tripod): manually selected ISO, shutter and aperture - exposure estimated with hand held spot meter. This is slow and meditative where I enjoy the ritual of making the photograph as much or even more than the photograph itself.

2. "informal" landscape (handheld): manually selected ISO and aperture, auto selected shutter speed (matrix metering) and exposure compensation dial. I find this quicker than full manual and it suits the different "feel" of being tripod free. The auto exposure means that as I move between different lighting situations the exposure is always somewhere close to the correct exposure and it's quick and easy to turn the exposure compensation dial to tweak exposure as I go.

3. Wildlife (handheld/tripod/monopod); Auto selected ISO, manually selected aperture and shutter speed, matrix metering. This is about speed, and I preselect the aperture and choose the shutter speed depending on the amount of subject movement while also watching the ISO readout so I can choose the best compromise between shutter speed and ISO.

I also use exposure compensation to add a fixed amount of plus or minus exposure, when needed.

Nikon's Highlighted weighted metering tool is assigned to a function key. Pressing the function key tells Nikon that the highlights are important in the scene (e.g the subject is a Great white egret) and it intelligently, using both colour and tonal values, adds a variable amount of exposure compensation depending on the scene. I have no idea what it actually does, but when a white bird suddenly takes off into a bright streak of sunlight and there is no time to make any exposure adjustments, quickly hitting the assigned function key assigned will save images that would otherwise be unusably overexposed.

Sometimes when things and lighting is changing very quickly, I use Aperture priority and auto ISO, with the exposure compensation dial. I'm less keen on this as it puts the camera in full control of the ISO. The control options on the Nikon, I mean can't have rapid (easy) exposure compensation and manual shutter speed control at the same time, and this is the compromise.

4. Street photography: I don't really do street photography but for this type of photography and for when I photographed my students of field trips etc. I set the aperture manually, and have the camera choose the shutter speed and ISO. The shutter speed is set to stay above 1/160 of. second and I use the exposure compensation dial. In these circumstances I am far more interested in "capturing the moment". I don't really care all that much about what happens to the ISO, as this is all about speed of capture and "good enough" technical quality.

This is different to the need for speed in the wildlife setup, because high technical quality is considered important for wildlife so keeping full control of your ISO is needed.

If I was photographing subjects not listed above, e.g a formal studio portrait, an air display, children playing, an environmental portrait, a dog portrait, a concert etc I would still probably choose whichever of the four set ups described above that seemed the best match.
I only use your 1st set-up in low light, your second is my normal mode usually used for wildlife too.
For airshows I will use your second (or sometimes fourth) mode for jets (typically aperture wide open) for jets, but for prop aircraft I switch to shutter priority I want to get some prop blur & DOF is nearly completely irrelevant. It's about the only time when I find shutter speed to be critical, though I'll sometimes use Sv for other panning shots too.

I don't have the option of the Nikon Function key (which sounds useful). I wonder if it just makes sure the brightest part is set to ~99% of sensor capacity (preventing clipping and giving the maximum available dynamic range ). I can't help feeling this sort of metering would often be better for digital than the more traditional mid 'grey overall' approach that's been used historically.
 
I don't have the option of the Nikon Function key (which sounds useful). I wonder if it just makes sure the brightest part is set to ~99% of sensor capacity (preventing clipping and giving the maximum available dynamic range ). I can't help feeling this sort of metering would often be better for digital than the more traditional mid 'grey overall' approach that's been used historically.

I think that the flexibility of metering means that we can all tailor the options to best match the way we want to work. Sometimes it's worth having total control and sometimes it's worth handing some of it over to the camera.

The Nikon Highlight weighted metering is only available on certain cameras (I use it on a D500) but its explained in a bit more detail here:

 
Nikon's Highlighted weighted metering tool is assigned to a function key. Pressing the function key tells Nikon that the highlights are important in the scene (e.g the subject is a Great white egret) and it intelligently, using both colour and tonal values, adds a variable amount of exposure compensation depending on the scene. I have no idea what it actually does, but when a white bird suddenly takes off into a bright streak of sunlight and there is no time to make any exposure adjustments, quickly hitting the assigned function key assigned will save images that would otherwise be unusably overexposed.
With most modern Nikons there are very few times where underexposing in order to save highlights by reducing the ISO has any significant negative effect on the final results... IF the camera is dropping the ISO w/in the last 2-3 stops there is about a .5 stop increase in noise in the dark regions when recovered; but a .5 increase for an ISO 100 image is extremely minor (hard to even detect). So I tend to use highlight weighted metering with auto ISO for most situations... sometimes I'll even dial in some additional negative EC.

However, that is not true of the single digit Nikons... they are much less ISO invariant (the D5 becomes invariant at ISO 3200 and above).
 
So I tend to use highlight weighted metering with auto ISO for most situations... sometimes I'll even dial in some additional negative EC.

Interesting, I've never thought of using it other than the way I described.
 
Interesting, I've never thought of using it other than the way I described.
Getting kind of off topic but,
This chart shows how much additional data is retained by increasing the ISO as the sensor is progressively underexposed for your D500.

Screen Shot 2020-11-19 at 10.47.31 AM.jpg

There is ~ .5 stop benefit between ISO 100-400, and no notable benefit to using an ISO beyond ISO 400. Don't misunderstand the chart though... the data is still lost due to the increased underexposure (Ap/SS); it's just that raising the ISO doesn't really help (ISO invariant). You could just always expose every image at 100-400; but using an excessively low ISO doesn't help, and it could prevent you from being able to adequately see an image w/o editing it first.

To relate this back to the original question... with an ISO invariant camera like the D500 you could just dial in enough negative exposure compensation so that you know highlights will not possibly clip (auto ISO); and then just ignore the exposure meter, histogram, and image review.

(the sudden step at ISO400 indicates dual gain photosites, the open triangles are digital ISO/manipulation)
 
Last edited:
I always shoot manual, manual iso, manual shutter speed, manual f number, I am sure digital cameras have made us lazy, I am sure everyone can learn from using what sony gave us full control in manual. My daughter has an oly ome 1 mk2 and it drives us crazy because manual on that camera has auto iso at the cost of adjustable ev its nuts
 
We all used to have to!

These days, I use whatever help I can get but intervene when I feel it's necessary.
 
If the Flying Spaghetti Monster intended me to use manual s/he'd never have given me Intelligent Auto mode!
 
Last edited:
My main problem Is that it doesn't tell me where they are, and primarily shooting Weddings it doesn't tell me what's blown only that something is - hence Blinkies works better :)

But yes - it's staggering that so many shoot in so many ways and yet still manage a photo worth having (allegedly) :D

Dave

For weddings it is very different - I use the histograms, and the blinkies but I do landscapes...you can take your time a lot more and really check these things. In live view you can even put a preview histogram on. Amazing but not for handhold shooters.

And no I don't use auto ISO - leave at ISO64, and maybe go to 100 if you need a little more shutter speed to stop any grasses blurring...and that's it. Oh and stop down enough to get what you want in focus and keep everything level and frame what you want to frame.

With a Nikon there is a big ISO button on the top of the camera so it is easy to change.

In a technical sense there is very little to landscape photography. Wedding, aviation, birds in flight etc all require a far higher degree of camera craft.
 
Last edited:
Why anyone would use manual, except very occasionally, or for specific tonal manipulation of a scene, is beyond me.

But each to their own.
Yes, but you simply can't be a proper photographer unless you shoot in full manual, it's law! ;) Oh, and you've got to have a mirrorless camera, now, too! (y) :LOL:
 
Last edited:
With my Rolleicord and my Fuji XE-3 I have all bases covered.

Phew!
Don't forget to shoot in RAW with your Fuji, so you can turn your fully manually exposed (shot by chimping and histogram squinting rather than by taking an incident light meter reading of the subject and applying years of actual experience) sow's ears into silk purses using image processing software and relying on every bit of dynamic range your camera can give you. Only then will you be a proper photographer my son. (y) ;)
 
So mentioning that lots of 'phones have very effective cameras fitted would be a no-no at this point? :naughty:
 
Is it Manual at all if you're using a phone-camera or mirrorless with an EVF ???

Surely 'real' Manual is where you see through the lens with your own eye (TLRs inc.)

Dave
Is that instead of using someone else's eye?

[emoji6] (Squinting into a dark TLR finder).
 
Is that instead of using someone else's eye?

[emoji6] (Squinting into a dark TLR finder).

I'm not aware that eye transplants being a thing yet, but if that's the case then I'd still suggest it is 'your' eye as its just a data collector and the brain (your brain) if what really 'sees' the image

Of course when brain transplants also become available that'll be a different matter

Dave
 
Is it Manual at all if you're using a phone-camera or mirrorless with an EVF ???

Surely 'real' Manual is where you see through the lens with your own eye (TLRs inc.)

Dave
You're ruling out me using my Contax II? None of my best cameras allow me to look through the lens.
 
Back
Top