1. Jake

    Jake

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    Hi all,

    Investing in LEE or NISI soon! (yay!)

    One question, my camera is Micro four-thirds and I have read & been told about needing hard grads due to the sensor size and FOV coverage and it makes sense. But, what I cannot decide on is hard or very hard? Can anyone offer any input or advise on whether they would pick hard or very hard

    But anyway, back to photography! Getting back into it, I 'typically' am shooting lots of seascapes right now (benefits of living 15mins walk from the coast line!) however in the future I do plan on venturing elsewhere for landscape work, so I am thinking hard over very hard?

    Any thoughts and opinions welcome. :)
     
  2. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    I don't get the connection between sensor size and the need to use hard grad only, can you elaborate on this?
     
  3. Jake

    Jake

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    My understanding is that due to the sensor being able half the physical size of a FF, that there is less surface area (wording?) to cover. Meaning a soft ND grad would not give the clear definition between the reduced exposure area and not. It would be more like taking the whole image down a couple of stops rather than a gradual affect across the image.

    I am not wording this very well, long day.
     
  4. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    But surely a grad, specifically made for smaller lenses [many M43 lenses have a 46mm filter thread for example] will allow for the smaller size sensor? I'm just curious, I rarely even use filters, someone with better knowledge of all this will hopefully help you out though
     
  5. popcorn

    popcorn

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    I use both HE and SE formatt 85 filters on m43 and both have their place
     
  6. Jake

    Jake

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    I am going for the square/rectangle filter setup rather than the screw on the lens type. But it is an interesting point. More reading needed :)
     
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  7. Jake

    Jake

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    Interesting, thanks!
     
  8. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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    Jake,

    I use SE ND grad filters on my m4/3 cameras, mainly using SE filters. The reason often mentioned about using a HE filter on this format is all around the transition gradient, and that it can be spread over a larger relative area on a m4/3 sensor. This would make the SE grad behave as if it were even softer. If you're looking at Nisi filters, then perhaps drop Phil Norton Photography a line. He is a Nisi distributor and a m4/3 user, and has been very helpful in the past with questions I've asked him. I'm sure I can recall him telling me that SE Nisi filters actually had a much softer transition than other equivalents, so he was steering people towards harder edged filters if they were m4/3 users.

    I'm currently using a Haida 100mm slot in filter system, and am very pleased with it.

    I hope that this helps.

    Simon.
     
  9. popcorn

    popcorn

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    Perhaps I should have expanded on that somewhat, apologies!

    Even on M43 I find that my HE filters are sometimes too harsh in transition, and even though I probably use them more than the SE ones, both types do get used. The SE are definitely needed in some instances where the HE would leave a noticeable change on the image where it’s not wanted.
     
  10. gad-westy

    gad-westy

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    I was under the (possibly false) impression that systems like the Lee 75mm system already took into account that they are used on smaller sensors typically and therefore have tight graduation transitions. Anybody know for sure?
     
  11. Jake

    Jake

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    Apologies, I just realised how I potentially came across! I REALLY wasn't intending to be rude or be "off" in my reply. I genuinely found it interesting that there is still use cases for SE as from what I have read (so far) not many are saying this.

    However, a friend of mine at work has a .2 and .3 ND SE I can borrow to test out mwahahaha.

    I did have a thought, on such lenses with a large front element (for example, my Oly 7-14 Pro) that the SE would be more useful when shooting wide? Hmmm

    Experimentation needed.
     
  12. Jake

    Jake

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    Thanks for the feedback Simon, really appreciate it.
    Might give Phil a call :)

    Last night I went down the dangerous road of trying to compare NISI & LEE. eeek!

    I am pretty set on the NISI 1000ND instead of the LEE Big stopper purely or the colour cast reasons. But the ND Grads...resin v glass...up for debate! Price wise they work out roughly the same so it isn't a monetary based decision!
     
  13. popcorn

    popcorn

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    No problem.
    Good point on lens size. I’m now shooting mostly with the Oly 12-40 2.8, which I guess has a largish front element too.
     
  14. LojikDub

    LojikDub

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    If it makes a difference, Phil Norton sells a 3d printed (I presume) adaptor for the Nisi system for use with the 7-14 Pro lens...I don't know if such an adator exists for Lee.
     
  15. Jake

    Jake

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    LEE make an adapter, its got a locking ring and looks like a good bit of kit. I have seen Phil Nortons one (not in the flesh but only on the internet) and whilst it is cheaper I worry about longevity and durability due to the design. It relies on a "push on" and tight fit for security if memory serves. I worry about this wearing out in some years.
     
  16. LojikDub

    LojikDub

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    Ahh didn't realise Lee had one :)
     
  17. Jake

    Jake

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    I like the look of the LEE one beause its something you can leave permanently fitted to the lens yet it doesn't add much bulk and can then unclip and clip the lee filter holder on and off easily enough. The one Phil prints out seems to be quite bulky and isn't ideal for keeping on there. Thats just the initial impression anyway.
     
  18. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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    Do research the Lee one well. I have a nagging thought at the back of my mind that it wouldn't allow you to shoot at 7mm on your Oly 7-14 which kinda defeats the whole point. I can't be sure about that though as I type, so you may need to do some googling and some reading.

    Simon.
     
  19. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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  20. Jake

    Jake

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    You're right, it recommends 10mm or more to avoid vignetting. However, I was under the impression that was more down to 100mm filter width than anything else?

    However, what is unclear is how bad the vignetting is!

    EDIT: 10mm with 2 filters, 8mm with 1 filter. Apparently.

    However, have just discovered this http://www.7-14filter.com/714.htm?en when googling for info on the above. Seems like there is no vignetting, easier to fit, and cheaper...

    I am looking for a catch!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  21. Jake

    Jake

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    Thats a great link, will have a read up. Didn't realise there were quite so many options!
     
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  22. Longimanus

    Longimanus

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    I've been using the Nisi filters for about 3 years, with the adapter from Phil. I have had no issues with the adapter in that time and you can use it at 7mm, unlike the Lee adapter.

    I also use the Soft, Medium and Hard Grad, each one has its place. Soft is quite hard to see the gradient though, I just watch the exposure change as I push it down.

    One thing I would say about Nisi/Phil, his advice and customer service is brilliant, which counts for a lot in my books
     
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  23. Alan Clogwyn

    Alan Clogwyn

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    You'll never need Lee's soft or very soft, but you will find use for very hard, hard and medium at different times. Hitech's idea of soft is useless at 10mm on APSC let alone m4/3! Lee's Seven5/ Sev5n filters already compensate by a grade, so the Seven 5 Soft is 100mm Medium.
     
  24. Jake

    Jake

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    Thanks for the feedback all. Think I am going to get the shapeways adapter for the 7-14. Nisi ND1000 and then a medium grad to start. Will eventually buy a hard and soft to compliment. Probably going all Nisi on these as well.
     
  25. Longimanus

    Longimanus

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    If u are going Nisi, why not get the filter from Phil as well? I don’t think the shapeways fits the Nisi filter holder!
     
  26. Jake

    Jake

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    Because I am not based in the UK. By the time I pay for postage, it will be more economical to get it from a EU based supplier tbh. I have the LEE filter holder, which Nisi filters will fit this no problem.
     
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  27. snerkler

    snerkler

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    I've not gone through all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating, but I have the 100mm Hitech system (with 100x150mm filters) and find them too big for m4/3 (I have Nikon FF too). Often if I put the lower part of the gradation where I want it to start in the frame, by the time it's got to an area where it's significantly darker then it's already out of frame. Sure a hard grad solves this issue, but that's only OK if you want that hard transition. If you want soft grads then I would say get one that fits the system better.

    The firecrest system is very good by the way, especially if you like the big stoppers as (apparently from the research I've done) they have less colour cast than the other two systems you mention (y)
     
  28. popcorn

    popcorn

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    Good point. I have the85mm (85*100) hitechs and they fit m43 fine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018 at 8:01 PM
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  29. frod

    frod

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    I would have thought angle of view rather than sensor size was the key factor.
     
  30. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Wider lenses can help of course, but even so the larger filters are way bigger than the frame with smaller sensors.
     
  31. Jake

    Jake

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    After reading and speaking to people it seems to be a combination of the two.

    A SE Grad on a lens with a small front element (lets take the Oly 17mm f/1.8 as an example) would be useless. However on the 7-14 with a very large front element, it has a time and place.
     
  32. jakeblu

    jakeblu

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    For those who use grads. I've just bought a kit on here and none of the ND's have gaskets. This means that the filters will not fit in the holder nearest the lens. Does it matter, is light leak a problem with 2,3 and 5 stop NDs
     
  33. GreenNinja67

    GreenNinja67

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    Not normally no.

    Only the 10 / 15 / 16 stops generally have gaskets I believe.

    I use a Hitech 4 stop with no gasket and it's fine.
     
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  34. jakeblu

    jakeblu

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    I'm guessing you place the filter in 2nd holder?
     
  35. GreenNinja67

    GreenNinja67

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    Depends on if I use a ND grad as well.

    If 1 filter then the back slot (closest to the lens)
     
  36. Jake

    Jake

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    Which filter holder and filters have you found this?
     
  37. jakeblu

    jakeblu

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    I've just bought the hitech ones, holder, 2 ND grads, and three NDs 2, 3 and 5. None of the ND's have gaskets but from what Ive googled they don't need them, and @GreenNinja67 confirms
     
  38. LojikDub

    LojikDub

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    I'm wondering why not having a gasket means they don't fit in the slot nearest the lens?
     
  39. GreenNinja67

    GreenNinja67

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    If you mean my post then I can use either slot.

    That was a typo
     
  40. snerkler

    snerkler

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    From memory the filter holder itself has a gasket so the filters fit snuggly (I've not used mine for a while ;))
     

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