Filters on M43? hard or very hard sirs? (oo-er)

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Jake
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#1
Hi all,

Investing in LEE or NISI soon! (yay!)

One question, my camera is Micro four-thirds and I have read & been told about needing hard grads due to the sensor size and FOV coverage and it makes sense. But, what I cannot decide on is hard or very hard? Can anyone offer any input or advise on whether they would pick hard or very hard

But anyway, back to photography! Getting back into it, I 'typically' am shooting lots of seascapes right now (benefits of living 15mins walk from the coast line!) however in the future I do plan on venturing elsewhere for landscape work, so I am thinking hard over very hard?

Any thoughts and opinions welcome. :)
 
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Keith
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#2
I don't get the connection between sensor size and the need to use hard grad only, can you elaborate on this?
 
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Jake
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#3
My understanding is that due to the sensor being able half the physical size of a FF, that there is less surface area (wording?) to cover. Meaning a soft ND grad would not give the clear definition between the reduced exposure area and not. It would be more like taking the whole image down a couple of stops rather than a gradual affect across the image.

I am not wording this very well, long day.
 
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#4
But surely a grad, specifically made for smaller lenses [many M43 lenses have a 46mm filter thread for example] will allow for the smaller size sensor? I'm just curious, I rarely even use filters, someone with better knowledge of all this will hopefully help you out though
 
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#6
But surely a grad, specifically made for smaller lenses [many M43 lenses have a 46mm filter thread for example] will allow for the smaller size sensor? I'm just curious, I rarely even use filters, someone with better knowledge of all this will hopefully help you out though
I am going for the square/rectangle filter setup rather than the screw on the lens type. But it is an interesting point. More reading needed :)
 
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#8
Jake,

I use SE ND grad filters on my m4/3 cameras, mainly using SE filters. The reason often mentioned about using a HE filter on this format is all around the transition gradient, and that it can be spread over a larger relative area on a m4/3 sensor. This would make the SE grad behave as if it were even softer. If you're looking at Nisi filters, then perhaps drop Phil Norton Photography a line. He is a Nisi distributor and a m4/3 user, and has been very helpful in the past with questions I've asked him. I'm sure I can recall him telling me that SE Nisi filters actually had a much softer transition than other equivalents, so he was steering people towards harder edged filters if they were m4/3 users.

I'm currently using a Haida 100mm slot in filter system, and am very pleased with it.

I hope that this helps.

Simon.
 
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Chris
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#9
Perhaps I should have expanded on that somewhat, apologies!

Even on M43 I find that my HE filters are sometimes too harsh in transition, and even though I probably use them more than the SE ones, both types do get used. The SE are definitely needed in some instances where the HE would leave a noticeable change on the image where it’s not wanted.
 
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#10
I was under the (possibly false) impression that systems like the Lee 75mm system already took into account that they are used on smaller sensors typically and therefore have tight graduation transitions. Anybody know for sure?
 
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#11
Perhaps I should have expanded on that somewhat, apologies!

Even on M43 I find that my HE filters are sometimes too harsh in transition, and even though I probably use them more than the SE ones, both types do get used. The SE are definitely needed in some instances where the HE would leave a noticeable change on the image where it’s not wanted.
Apologies, I just realised how I potentially came across! I REALLY wasn't intending to be rude or be "off" in my reply. I genuinely found it interesting that there is still use cases for SE as from what I have read (so far) not many are saying this.

However, a friend of mine at work has a .2 and .3 ND SE I can borrow to test out mwahahaha.

I did have a thought, on such lenses with a large front element (for example, my Oly 7-14 Pro) that the SE would be more useful when shooting wide? Hmmm

Experimentation needed.
 
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#12
Jake,

I use SE ND grad filters on my m4/3 cameras, mainly using SE filters. The reason often mentioned about using a HE filter on this format is all around the transition gradient, and that it can be spread over a larger relative area on a m4/3 sensor. This would make the SE grad behave as if it were even softer. If you're looking at Nisi filters, then perhaps drop Phil Norton Photography a line. He is a Nisi distributor and a m4/3 user, and has been very helpful in the past with questions I've asked him. I'm sure I can recall him telling me that SE Nisi filters actually had a much softer transition than other equivalents, so he was steering people towards harder edged filters if they were m4/3 users.

I'm currently using a Haida 100mm slot in filter system, and am very pleased with it.

I hope that this helps.

Simon.
Thanks for the feedback Simon, really appreciate it.
Might give Phil a call :)

Last night I went down the dangerous road of trying to compare NISI & LEE. eeek!

I am pretty set on the NISI 1000ND instead of the LEE Big stopper purely or the colour cast reasons. But the ND Grads...resin v glass...up for debate! Price wise they work out roughly the same so it isn't a monetary based decision!
 
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#13
Apologies, I just realised how I potentially came across! I REALLY wasn't intending to be rude or be "off" in my reply. I genuinely found it interesting that there is still use cases for SE as from what I have read (so far) not many are saying this.

However, a friend of mine at work has a .2 and .3 ND SE I can borrow to test out mwahahaha.

I did have a thought, on such lenses with a large front element (for example, my Oly 7-14 Pro) that the SE would be more useful when shooting wide? Hmmm

Experimentation needed.
No problem.
Good point on lens size. I’m now shooting mostly with the Oly 12-40 2.8, which I guess has a largish front element too.
 
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#15
If it makes a difference, Phil Norton sells a 3d printed (I presume) adaptor for the Nisi system for use with the 7-14 Pro lens...I don't know if such an adator exists for Lee.
LEE make an adapter, its got a locking ring and looks like a good bit of kit. I have seen Phil Nortons one (not in the flesh but only on the internet) and whilst it is cheaper I worry about longevity and durability due to the design. It relies on a "push on" and tight fit for security if memory serves. I worry about this wearing out in some years.
 
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#17
Ahh didn't realise Lee had one :)
I like the look of the LEE one beause its something you can leave permanently fitted to the lens yet it doesn't add much bulk and can then unclip and clip the lee filter holder on and off easily enough. The one Phil prints out seems to be quite bulky and isn't ideal for keeping on there. Thats just the initial impression anyway.
 
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#18
Ahh didn't realise Lee had one :)
Do research the Lee one well. I have a nagging thought at the back of my mind that it wouldn't allow you to shoot at 7mm on your Oly 7-14 which kinda defeats the whole point. I can't be sure about that though as I type, so you may need to do some googling and some reading.

Simon.
 
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#20
Do research the Lee one well. I have a nagging thought at the back of my mind that it wouldn't allow you to shoot at 7mm on your Oly 7-14 which kinda defeats the whole point. I can't be sure about that though as I type, so you may need to do some googling and some reading.

Simon.
You're right, it recommends 10mm or more to avoid vignetting. However, I was under the impression that was more down to 100mm filter width than anything else?

However, what is unclear is how bad the vignetting is!

EDIT: 10mm with 2 filters, 8mm with 1 filter. Apparently.

However, have just discovered this http://www.7-14filter.com/714.htm?en when googling for info on the above. Seems like there is no vignetting, easier to fit, and cheaper...

I am looking for a catch!
 
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#21
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Lee
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#22
I've been using the Nisi filters for about 3 years, with the adapter from Phil. I have had no issues with the adapter in that time and you can use it at 7mm, unlike the Lee adapter.

I also use the Soft, Medium and Hard Grad, each one has its place. Soft is quite hard to see the gradient though, I just watch the exposure change as I push it down.

One thing I would say about Nisi/Phil, his advice and customer service is brilliant, which counts for a lot in my books
 
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#24
Thanks for the feedback all. Think I am going to get the shapeways adapter for the 7-14. Nisi ND1000 and then a medium grad to start. Will eventually buy a hard and soft to compliment. Probably going all Nisi on these as well.
 
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#25
Thanks for the feedback all. Think I am going to get the shapeways adapter for the 7-14. Nisi ND1000 and then a medium grad to start. Will eventually buy a hard and soft to compliment. Probably going all Nisi on these as well.
If u are going Nisi, why not get the filter from Phil as well? I don’t think the shapeways fits the Nisi filter holder!
 
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#26
If u are going Nisi, why not get the filter from Phil as well? I don’t think the shapeways fits the Nisi filter holder!
Because I am not based in the UK. By the time I pay for postage, it will be more economical to get it from a EU based supplier tbh. I have the LEE filter holder, which Nisi filters will fit this no problem.
 
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#27
I've not gone through all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating, but I have the 100mm Hitech system (with 100x150mm filters) and find them too big for m4/3 (I have Nikon FF too). Often if I put the lower part of the gradation where I want it to start in the frame, by the time it's got to an area where it's significantly darker then it's already out of frame. Sure a hard grad solves this issue, but that's only OK if you want that hard transition. If you want soft grads then I would say get one that fits the system better.

The firecrest system is very good by the way, especially if you like the big stoppers as (apparently from the research I've done) they have less colour cast than the other two systems you mention (y)
 
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#28
I've not gone through all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating, but I have the 100mm Hitech system (with 100x150mm filters) and find them too big for m4/3 (I have Nikon FF too). Often if I put the lower part of the gradation where I want it to start in the frame, by the time it's got to an area where it's significantly darker then it's already out of frame. Sure a hard grad solves this issue, but that's only OK if you want that hard transition. If you want soft grads then I would say get one that fits the system better.

The firecrest system is very good by the way, especially if you like the big stoppers as (apparently from the research I've done) they have less colour cast than the other two systems you mention (y)
Good point. I have the85mm (85*100) hitechs and they fit m43 fine.
 
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#30
I would have thought angle of view rather than sensor size was the key factor.
Wider lenses can help of course, but even so the larger filters are way bigger than the frame with smaller sensors.
 
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#31
After reading and speaking to people it seems to be a combination of the two.

A SE Grad on a lens with a small front element (lets take the Oly 17mm f/1.8 as an example) would be useless. However on the 7-14 with a very large front element, it has a time and place.
 
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#32
For those who use grads. I've just bought a kit on here and none of the ND's have gaskets. This means that the filters will not fit in the holder nearest the lens. Does it matter, is light leak a problem with 2,3 and 5 stop NDs
 
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#33
For those who use grads. I've just bought a kit on here and none of the ND's have gaskets. This means that the filters will not fit in the holder nearest the lens. Does it matter, is light leak a problem with 2,3 and 5 stop NDs

Not normally no.

Only the 10 / 15 / 16 stops generally have gaskets I believe.

I use a Hitech 4 stop with no gasket and it's fine.
 
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#34
Not normally no.

Only the 10 / 15 / 16 stops generally have gaskets I believe.

I use a Hitech 4 stop with no gasket and it's fine.
I'm guessing you place the filter in 2nd holder?
 
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#36
For those who use grads. I've just bought a kit on here and none of the ND's have gaskets. This means that the filters will not fit in the holder nearest the lens. Does it matter, is light leak a problem with 2,3 and 5 stop NDs
Which filter holder and filters have you found this?
 
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#40
I've just bought the hitech ones, holder, 2 ND grads, and three NDs 2, 3 and 5. None of the ND's have gaskets but from what Ive googled they don't need them, and @GreenNinja67 confirms
I'm wondering why not having a gasket means they don't fit in the slot nearest the lens?
From memory the filter holder itself has a gasket so the filters fit snuggly (I've not used mine for a while ;))
 
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