First film camera

Craigus

Craigus

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Craig
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So, let's say that I wanted to have a play with a film camera. How would you recommend I go about purchasing my first camera bearing in mind I've never shot film before and don't know much about what to look for? I've done plenty of reading in this forum and others and think I'd like to give a 35mm SLR a try, not one with too much automation as that doesn't really interest me, part of the enjoyment would be the manual control of exposure, focus etc but one that has metering would probably be useful.

I'm sure part of the thrill for some of you more experienced guys and girls is finding the bargains, but as I've never shot with film before I would probably end up with a dud. If I had a budget of say £50 for body and a lens (not picky on the lens at all) would i be more likely to get something reasonable? Should I purchase one online? If so from a reputable secondhand seller?

I saw a few in an antique shop at the weekend which is what peaked my initial interest, I don't remember exactly what they were but thinking back there were one Nikon and Pentax cameras for about £35 with various lenses. Could always pop back there and get one.

I saw the thread on the cheap film in Poundland so popped in at lunchtime and picked up a few rolls in preparation. It's all rather exciting actually!

Any advice appreciated, I hope this isn't another rabbit hole as I've already spent enough on digital kit recently!! :banana:
 
What camera do you have at the moment?
If you have a Canon or Nikon DSLR, you could go for the respective brand's film SLR.
Reason: lenses can be shared and the auto functions will make it easier to get good exposures.

IE: I have a Canon 6D DSLR and I also have a Canon EOS100 film SLR. The EOS100 gives me auto-focus (with a single focus point), aperture priority, shutter priority and full manual. And it means I can use my Canon EF (full frame) lenses on it. The EOS100 cost me £5 and there are loads of other old Canon EOS film cameras around for peanuts.
But this only helps if it either comes with a lens or you have EF lenses (like the 50mm f1.8 not the EFS lenses).
Something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CANON-EOS-500-SLR-Camera-With-Canon-35-80mm-f-4-5-6-III-Lens-B31/391672791804

There are also plenty of good old manual cameras about, Pentax are good (I have a Pentax Spotmatic, which was £5 including a 55mm lens) and the older ones use the M42 lens mount which is easy to find cheap lenses for. Newer Pentax like the ME or ME Super or K1000 are great, they use the Pentax Bayonet (PK) lens mount.
Ideally as a first film camera, you want something with a light meter built in so that you can get the exposure right.
The best idea is, if you find a camera in a charity shop/car boot sale/etc, do a quick google on your phone and check that it has a light meter (CameraPedia is a good site), then go and ask to look at the camera, check out the condition. You will most likely find that the battery is dead/missing, if it's a newer camera like a Canon EOS, this means it won't fire, but on older manual cameras, you'll still be able to press the shutter and wind-on, always try to open the back to look at the light seals (around the edge of the film door) unless there's still film in it.

Hope that helps.
 
I see you use Canon, probably best to stick with what you know.
I might be able to help you out. I'll check later on. :)
 
kendo1 said:
I see you use Canon, probably best to stick with what you know.
I might be able to help you out. I'll check later on. :)
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What a guy! lol

If the OP had or wants Nikon, then I have an F70 which is somewhat automated although iirc can e fully overidden with manual settings, that I could be tempted to part with for next to nowt.
 
Asha said:
What a guy! lol

If the OP had or wants Nikon, then I have an F70 which is somewhat automated although iirc can e fully overidden with manual settings, that I could be tempted to part with for next to nowt.
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I have one too. Couldn't really get to grips with it - too modern. I do like the FM/FE series. I much prefer the Contax and Yashica line up.
 
ChrisR said:
Pentax MX is always the answer... what was the question? :D:D:D
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And I thought the answer it was Canon AE-1. :)
kendo1 said:
I have one too. Couldn't really get to grips with it - too modern. I do like the FM/FE series. I much prefer the Contax and Yashica line up.
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The Nikon F70 was kind of quirky ... to be kind!
 
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ChrisR said:
Pentax MX is always the answer... what was the question? :D:D:D
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What's the best camera to use to hammer in a nail?

More seriously, if you aren't sure what to look for, make sure that any camera you buy without a guarantee does actually work. It might be difficult to check if the camera needs a battery to operate, but shutters can stick, and mirrors can fail to rise or return properly.
 
With a £50 budget you could do a lot worse than a Praktica MTL5 & a 50mm Lens. Fully manual with a built in meter. The camera body can be picked up for as little as £10 on ebay. 50mm M42 lens would be around another £10 to £20. I paid that for mine there. There are a couple of outfits listed at the moment for around the £40 mark.

Not sure in your price point whether a dealer will have much to offer? Ffordes are very good. Have had a few bits from them over the years & always been happy. Their Web site might be worth a trawl?
 
Okay, I found a battery. :)
I just so happen to have an AE-1 Program in working order with FD 50 1.8 that I am highly unlikely to ever use.

If you want to try film photography, you are more than welcome to it. Spend your money on film :D and put some shots up for us.

I may have to put this in the classifieds to keep the mods happy.
 
You are an absolute gent!!! We'll go to pm if you like?

Thanks to all for the info and help, much appreciated!
 
PM sent

I've put a battery in that works, but I'm not sure how good it is. It uses the same battery as my RTS and RTS II, etc, and new ones turn up tomorrow!

I'll check the meter tomorrow morning against my light meter and let you know.
 
If the op does not take up an offer from here, I would recommend he goes to a real camera shop and hold the camera in his hands first. London Camera Exchange always have a selection of film cameras and guarantee them for at least a short while.
 
StephenM said:
What's the best camera to use to hammer in a nail?
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Nikon FTn without a doubt. Many would suggest the Canon T70 but I wouldn't even want to touch one.
 
Well I've taken kendo1 up on his offer, I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions for you all soon when I've got it in my hands.
 
My daughter started by collecting old cameras in her room, she is very much in to art but only ever had a phone camera and a Digitl SLR, she is now trying out each one with film, she loves it, makes you slow down and give more thought to composition etc.
Its so nice to resurrect an old camera and often you will get some excellent results. You should ask family and friends as thats how we got some as people would rather it be enjoyed than hidden away or worse still off to the tip.
I feel its something we all should do and I am currently eyeing up and old Halina 35X thats sat on her camera shelf, once I have decided what to take and found the tripod its off for a day out
 
Eloise said:
If all you have is a Pentax MX ... every picture looks like a nail?
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Ah, I suspected there was something odd about my pics!

Seriously though, I guess every range has at least one well-built, small all-manual camera with a modern battery for the meter, excellent good value lenses and a superb viewfinder. Since I only use Pentax, I have to suggest the best from that range, the MX (of course the LX is significantly more sophisticated, but has more problems and 2-4 times as expensive).

Finding a manual camera with a meter but that will work at all speeds without a battery (should it fail) is a good direction to go if you want a real contrast to the auto-everything of the modern digeri camera.
 
That's the AE-1 Program on its merry way...

I put a newish battery in it and I reckon it underexposes by about a stop compared with my light meter, Nex 6, Contax RTS II and a Nikon D5200 (just to make sure!)
I could be wrong, I'm not familiar with using Canons, just something to be aware of. No big deal, just set the ASA dial up a stop from what film you load.

I tried the same battery and a new one in the Contax and it came up with the same exposure for both batteries.

Has anyone else come across this with Canons?
I normally just follow what my Contaxes indicate and they are of the same period.
 
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I would have thought the Canon would have given similar results to your Contax RTS II, as they both have centre weighted type metering? Perhaps run a roll of Poundland's finest 200 ISO Agfa Vista through it and try a few shots of the same scene and lighting conditions with the film speed settings on 100 ISO, 200 ISO then 400 ISO and see how they look.... don't forget to keep notes on which setting was used on each photo number though, as you'll probably have forgotten by the time the film comes back from the lab?! If the meter is 1 stop out it should be fairly obvious, and you can easily work round it then, as Kendo suggests. :)

Not a bad camera the AE1 Programme, rather similar to the Canon A1, which I've had some nice photos from. If you find you like the AE1 then you can pick some Canon FD lenses up for it quite cheaply. I can recommend the Canon 35-70 f4 zoom (the metal bodied, constant f4 aperture one, not the later plasticy looking type one!). It's capable of giving some quite nice results:

 
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Thanks Ken! I've PM'd you.

Thanks for the above advice too. I will definitely do the test run with different film speeds. Does increasing the ASA/ISO have the same effect on film as it does with digital? For example, if I find I am shooting in low light wide open at 1/60th but don't want to drop my shutter speed any further, knocking up the ASA from 400 to 800 would give me the extra stop needed but would it create more grain in the image? Does it vary between differing quality of films of the same speed?
 
You can't change the ISO setting between shots on a roll of film, as all it does is alter the meter setting (and the shutter/aperture settings if it's an auto exposure type camera): The ISO 'speed' will depend on how the film is developed, usually a lab will develop a roll of film as per what it says on its label (eg 200 ISO for a 200 ISO film), but you can ask a pro type film lab to push or pull the film by 'stops' or just give instructions such as "Please develop for 800 ISO". Obviously, this will affect all the photos on the roll of film, not just one or two where you changed the ISO setting on the camera (usually you'd set the ISO at the start of each roll of film, and leave the setting there, unless you change your mind and are willing to sacrifice the first few shots you'd taken on the original setting). Digital cameras write the data for each image separately to the memory card/disk, so you can swap between ISO settings in between shots, hope this is helpful.

Generally speaking, the 'faster' the film speed, the higher the 'grain', but with modern film emulsions it's less obvious than it used to be, unless you choose an 'old fashioned' grainy type film deliberately. :) It's all part of the dark art of film photography, welcome to our world! :naughty:

Joking aside, I'm sure the folks on here will be able to help you when you need some tips or info. (y)
 
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Thank you, that is as I expected. So the purpose of setting the film speed is purely for the meter to work properly? So on cameras without meters you don't have to set the film speed?
 
Mr Badger said:
I would have thought the Canon would have given similar results to your Contax RTS II, as they both have centre weighted type metering? Perhaps run a roll of Poundland's finest 200 ISO Agfa Vista through it and try a few shots of the same scene and lighting conditions with the film speed settings on 100 ISO, 200 ISO then 400 ISO and see how they look.... don't forget to keep notes on which setting was used on each photo number though, as you'll probably have forgotten by the time the film comes back from the lab?! If the meter is 1 stop out it should be fairly obvious, and you can easily work round it then, as Kendo suggests. :)

Not a bad camera the AE1 Programme, rather similar to the Canon A1, which I've had some nice photos from. If you find you like the AE1 then you can pick some Canon FD lenses up for it quite cheaply. I can recommend the Canon 35-70 f1:4 zoom (the metal bodied, constant f1.4 aperture one, not the later plasticy looking type one!). It's capable of giving some quite nice results:

Click to expand...

..just to add I don't think there is a bad Canon prime (non zoom) lens, they are all very good performers unless you get an abused one or it has slip passed quality control. Anyway all my Canon lenses are very good and would recommend them.
 
Craigus said:
Thank you, that is as I expected. So the purpose of setting the film speed is purely for the meter to work properly? So on cameras without meters you don't have to set the film speed?
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Updated:

Yes, the film speed setting just changes the meter setting on film cameras (the meter reading is then used by the camera to automatically set the shutter speed, or aperture, or both, on 'auto' type cameras), so that the image is exposed correctly (hopefully) for the ISO/ASA setting chosen on the dial (some of the later 35mm film cameras had automatic DX bar code type recognition, which automatically set the film speed according to the DX code on the film cannister).

On cameras without meters you'd generally use a separate hand-held light meter, which features a film speed setting on it's controls. You'd then use the readings from the meter to manually set the shutter speed and aperture setting on the camera. Alternatively, you'd guess the exposure using the 'sunny 16' rule - years ago cartons of film used to come with a slip of paper inside featuring suggested exposure settings depending on lighting conditions, such as Sunny beaches/snow, cloudy/overcast, indoors, etc. to help people 'guestimate' the exposure settings. These instructions would be based on the ISO/ASA film speed for that particular film. Happy days! :)

Edit: Some old manual meterless cameras did have a film speed dial, but this was just there to remind the user what was in the camera.
 
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Just to add:

The ASA just affects the meter. So, you set the ASA and the meter tells you what it reckons the settings should be.
Canon tend to be shutter priority, so you set what speed you want and the camera figures out the aperture for you. (AE-1 P is more shutter priority based, but can be used in all 3 modes)

I prefer aperture priority or manual, but they are all much the same, just depends what you set first.

In this case, with (I think) the camera meter being 1 stop out, set the ASA to 1 step under (200 film set 100 ASA on the dial) and the metering should be right.
The film then gets processed at its usual rating. In this case 200 ASA.

You are not underexposing or pushing the film, you are just adjusting the meter!


Of course, you could ignore the meter entirely and just use manual settings obtained from another camera (as long as the other camera is set to the correct ISO, not on auto ISO)

The only way to see if it is correct is to run some film through it.
 
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If the camera under exposes by one stop then surely you need to set the ASA to half box speed, not double?
 
Of course, it might have been overexposing... :confused:
 
Could it be the lens? I had a Tamron 24-50 zoom that required an extra stop or so compared with other lenses on the same camera. Never quite sure why; assume it relates to t-stop rather than f-stops, ie transmission rather than iris opening size. So presumably it had some strange glass (don't remember any fungus... but it's long gone, anyway).
 
Mr Badger said:
You can't change the ISO setting between shots on a roll of film, as all it does is alter the meter setting (and the shutter/aperture settings if it's an auto exposure type camera): The ISO 'speed' will depend on how the film is developed, usually a lab will develop a roll of film as per what it says on its label (eg 200 ISO for a 200 ISO film), but you can ask a pro type film lab to push or pull the film by 'stops' or just give instructions such as "Please develop for 800 ISO". Obviously, this will affect all the photos on the roll of film, not just one or two where you changed the ISO setting on the camera (usually you'd set the ISO at the start of each roll of film, and leave the setting there, unless you change your mind and are willing to sacrifice the first few shots you'd taken on the original setting). Digital cameras write the data for each image separately to the memory card/disk, so you can swap between ISO settings in between shots, hope this is helpful.
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I wouldn't suggest this to a beginner, but it is quite feasible to shoot each frame on a roll of film at a different EV (that is, "change the ISO") and develop each frame properly. The technique is stand development where the amount of development already in place controls the rate of development and differs for each frame.
 
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ChrisR said:
Could it be the lens? I had a Tamron 24-50 zoom that required an extra stop or so compared with other lenses on the same camera. Never quite sure why; assume it relates to t-stop rather than f-stops, ie transmission rather than iris opening size. So presumably it had some strange glass (don't remember any fungus... but it's long gone, anyway).
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I don't know. I couldn't use another lens on it to find out.
It could just be a strange Canon thing :D and there's nothing wrong.

I'll leave that to Craig to find out.
 
Camera arrived. Looks in much better condition than I thought it would be! Off to the manual and YouTube...
 
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