First Time Using Canon R5 .... Noise problem

[Dael_Pix]

I like the eye tracking, but it did search for the eye for too long even if I was pointing the square at the bird. It also used multiple points together.
I used this video.

I set the max ISO to 6400 but it turns out that the ISO is too grainy when looking at the photos on the computer. Weather was cloudy, maybe that's why the photos were bad.
So I'll have to set it lower. My aperture was between f5.6 and f8.
They looked amazingly sharp in-camera.

The EVF is amazing and shows you what photos will turn out like striaght away.

I need to find a way of switching between photographing wildlife and landscapes/general one shot photos.

 

[GreenNinja67]

My Olympus has less noise than that at ISO6400 (enhanced)

Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Micro-four-thirds]

My Olympus has less noise than that at ISO6400 (enhanced)

Doesn't seem right to me.

View attachment 411183

This was my first thought too, I’m not sure what’s causing the noise to be so visible at that iso.

 

[Dael_Pix]

Edited thread title.

I'll have another play tomorrow with lower ISO.
I'm also going to reset camera, and put all 'wildlife' settings on to a Custom shooting mode if it will work, because I won't be shooting wildlife all that often and landscape/general use is what I'll be using the camera for.

 

[sk66]

Are you new to using high resolution sensors? 45MP is a lot of enlargement when viewed at 100%.
That level of noise is pretty typical of such cameras.

Also, what software are you using to edit them?

 

[nandbytes]

Are those processed? Are the cropped?
Can you share original RAWs?

F8, high shutter speed @ ISO 6400 on a cloudy day, shot noise will be a factor too. I think your sensor needs more light to be less noisy.

 

[Adam-G]

Without seeing the conditions first hand it's hard to diagnose if there's a fault. Could be poor signal to noise ratio based on conditions and your aperture and quick shutter speed.

I've taken ISO 6400 photos that are clean as a whistle and I've taken some that suffer noise.

Could you take some images at 6400 in a test setting with abundant light hitting the sensor?

 

[Brentor]

Are these from LR or DPP with no noise reduction applied?

 

[Dael_Pix]

Are you new to using high resolution sensors? 45MP is a lot of enlargement when viewed at 100%.

Also, what software are you using to edit them?

Only had this camera since yesterday evening and this is the first time trying it out. I've come from the 5D MKIV which is 30MP.

Are those processed? Are the cropped?
Can you share original RAWs?

F8, high shutter speed @ ISO 6400 on a cloudy day, shot noise will be a factor too. I think your sensor needs more light to be less noisy.

Processed and cropped.

Without seeing the conditions first hand it's hard to diagnose if there's a fault. Could be poor signal to noise ratio based on conditions and your aperture and quick shutter speed.

I've taken ISO 6400 photos that are clean as a whistle and I've taken some that suffer noise.

Could you take some images at 6400 in a test setting with abundant light hitting the sensor?

Tripod and 2 sec timer.

These are RAW and not processed.

Are these from LR or DPP with no noise reduction applied?

LR and no noise reduction, except for the right photo of the blue tit.

 

[sk66]

LR and no noise reduction, except for the right photo of the blue tit.

Like I said, that is not particularly unusual for those kind of cameras. But pay extra attention to the default edits LR applies to the images... things like sharpening/clarity/texture will increase the apparent noise.

 

[nandbytes]

Processed and cropped.

That could explain it... Cropping will reveal more noise and so does underexposed processed images. So noise depends on how much you cropped and processed too

These are RAW and not processed.

Both not shot with the same exposure. Can't do a like for like comparison unless you have same exposure i.e. aperture and shutter speed.

 

[Dael_Pix]

New RAW files. I've uploaded them onto my Google Drive. Hopefully you can download them, let me know if you can't. (Only shared once before).

I've updated the firmware.

I'm hoping that I can get it sorted out before I go to an RSPB site.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Are you new to using high resolution sensors? 45MP is a lot of enlargement when viewed at 100%.
That level of noise is pretty typical of such cameras.

+1

This looks a little bit cleaner than 5Ds, so an improvement if small. Actually ISO 1600 looks almost as bad as R5 at 6400. So basically all these high ISO shots need to be exposed as far to the right as possible. the iso 640 shot is precisely 4 stop underexposed. It is seriously bad exposure, like really really bad. You are asking for nothing but severe noise if you choose to shoot like this.

And to be fair I haven't seen any camera that delivers clean ISO6400. They just don't.

So forget shooting at f/8 in the dark. F8 is the diffraction limit of 45MP FF anyway. Wide open is what you want, and if your lens is no good then you get a better and faster one.

But pay extra attention to the default edits LR applies to the images... things like sharpening/clarity/texture will increase the apparent noise.

+100.

Actually clarity and texture MUST NOT exceed 0 with these cameras.

If you want to hit the noise hard you have to run LR denoise at around 20%, ideally no more or you will get lots of extra green smear; and then send that file with all sharpening off to TOPAZ Denoise AI and (not crappy Photo AI) and finish it off there. Only the combination of both can handle that ghastly noise, but expect some loss of details.


These cameras really want to be set at ISO 100 f/5.6 and locked on a very solid tripod with 2s timer, and exposed properly and that's really that.

ISO 50 is fake and will only result in loss of dynamic range.

I need to find a way of switching between photographing wildlife and landscapes/general one shot photos.

C1-C3 custom modes are exactly for this.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Cropping will reveal more noise and so does underexposed processed images.

+1

exactly. You still need to fill the frame with your subject and expose it properly. Just because it is 45MP doesn't mean you can waste 40 of it and expect miracle.

 

[Dael_Pix]

This isn't too bad. No sharpening

 

[woof woof]

So forget shooting at f/8 in the dark. F8 is the diffraction limit of 45MP FF anyway. Wide open is what you want, and if your lens is no good then you get a better and faster one.

There's just so much wrong with this I don't know where to start, so I wont waste my time except to say that hopefully no one will take this post too seriously.

 

[LouisDorset]

I need to find a way of switching between photographing wildlife and landscapes/general one shot photos.

Hi.

You can use the custom shooting modes C1 - C3 for this. Set your camera how you want it, then save your settings to either C1 - C2 or C3.

The video you mentioned covers this at 19:57

You can also set your, "multi-function button" (button closest to shutter button) to instantly cycle your saved custom settings.

Go to Menu - then the C.fn tab - page 3 - Customise buttons. You can the scroll to the C.fn button. From here you can assign it to "C" (or whatever you like) and this will allow you to jump from, Manual for instance, to C1-C2-C3 and back to manual, by simply pressing the C.fn button in succession.

Hopefully, I've explained this correctly. If not, I'm sure someone will jump in and help further.

Good luck.

 

[Dael_Pix]

Don't forgot it was the first time out using the camera, so I'm getting used to using it. It seems that I shot in F8 99% of the time

Setting how I focus on wildlife cannot be controlled by Custom Shooting Modes. Because it sets the focussing for the whole camera and I have to change it manually to be able to shoot landscapes etc.

I'll try again this aft

 

[Phil V]

Hi @Dael_Pix
You don’t need the custom functions to switch between one shot AF and wildlife eye detect. You can do it by assigning AF ON to autofocus and select using either the screen or the joystick. Then assign eye AF to the * button.

Then by simply moving your thumb from AF ON to * you have your 2 shooting modes.

Couldn’t be simpler.

BTW, the R6 is cleaner at high ISO than the R5 and 5dIV because sometimes there’s an advantage to fewer megapixels

 

[4wd]

You just need more light, on a half decent bright day you will be delighted with results.
At this time of year we get so used to it hardly getting light most days we tend to not realise just how low it is.

 

[admirable]

I'm presuming you are using an adapter on the R5 with the 100-400?

 

[Phil V]

I'm presuming you are using an adapter on the R5 with the 100-400?

It wouldn’t fit without - so that’s a fair assumption.

 

[Dael_Pix]

Hi.

You can use the custom shooting modes C1 - C3 for this. Set your camera how you want it, then save your settings to either C1 - C2 or C3.

The video you mentioned covers this at 19:57

You can also set your, "multi-function button" (button closest to shutter button) to instantly cycle your saved custom settings.

Go to Menu - then the C.fn tab - page 3 - Customise buttons. You can the scroll to the C.fn button. From here you can assign it to "C" (or whatever you like) and this will allow you to jump from, Manual for instance, to C1-C2-C3 and back to manual, by simply pressing the C.fn button in succession.

Hopefully, I've explained this correctly. If not, I'm sure someone will jump in and help further.

Good luck.

Thanks but I already knew how to do Custom Modes and have done since owning a DSLR. And if you look at my signature, you'll see I have a 5DMKIV.

No need to call me names in a personal message.

 

[LouisDorset]

Thanks but I already knew how to do Custom Modes and have done since owning a DSLR. And if you look at my signature, you'll see I have a 5DMKIV.

No need to call me names in a personal message.

You asked, "I need to find a way of switching between photographing wildlife and landscapes/general one shot photos". I answered your question.

You know, people take the time to reply to questions. All you need to do is thank them or acknowledge their reply, perhaps.

I then sent you a message, so as not to embarrass us both and to communicate my feelings about your reply, but you went on to be rude, still.

I'm sorry you felt the need to bring it back here, I was only trying to help.

 

[A_S]

I regulally shoot at between 2500 and 5000 on an R5 and I am more than happy with the results, of course if you are going to 100% crop then there will be an issue but thats to be expected, and of course under exposing in low light also exadurates this.

I've included my adjustments in the screenshot below so you can see what I've done to the original Raw and how its come out. Even on this photo I've upped the exposure nearly 1 stop, increased shadows 75% and applied 25 dehaze. The image is sharpened with 40 and denoized at 25 luminance. No other noise reduction or sharpening applied - so pushing an ISO 5000 image quite far and its still coming out perfectly fine. Although the upload quality on this site is shocking as ever... so I've just stuck a copy on google drive to give a better impression (not sure how long I'll keep it up)

100% crop:




full image:
link:

5G4A7873.jpg

drive.google.com

 

[admirable]

It wouldn’t fit without - so that’s a fair assumption.

Tres drole, my point was, this may add to the noise issue?

 

[yzfmike]

Tres drole, my point was, this may add to the noise issue?

How?

 

[sk66]

There's just so much wrong with this I don't know where to start, so I wont waste my time except to say that hopefully no one will take this post too seriously.

Well, it's technically correct if you want full benefit/resolution of the sensor...

BTW, the R6 is cleaner at high ISO than the R5 and 5dIV because sometimes there’s an advantage to fewer megapixels

I would put it as more "sometimes there's no real benefit to more megapixels."

 

[LCPete]

Not sure what to make of all this I find my R5 is better for noise than any other camera that I have owned, coming from Canon crop although I also have a 6D 2
as always need to get the exposure right and as someone said 100 percent is zoomed in a lot for 45 MP
I just don’t see the amount of noise seen here
I don’t use Adobe anymore though, shoot Raw and convert with DXO
I have even shot at maximum ISO on one occasion when the the stage where a band I was photographing was playing was almost dark

 

[Dael_Pix]

I regulally shoot at between 2500 and 5000 on an R5 and I am more than happy with the results, of course if you are going to 100% crop then there will be an issue but thats to be expected, and of course under exposing in low light also exadurates this.

I've included my adjustments in the screenshot below so you can see what I've done to the original Raw and how its come out. Even on this photo I've upped the exposure nearly 1 stop, increased shadows 75% and applied 25 dehaze. The image is sharpened with 40 and denoized at 25 luminance. No other noise reduction or sharpening applied - so pushing an ISO 5000 image quite far and its still coming out perfectly fine. Although the upload quality on this site is shocking as ever... so I've just stuck a copy on google drive to give a better impression (not sure how long I'll keep it up)

100% crop:

View attachment 411241


full image:
link:

5G4A7873.jpg

drive.google.com

View attachment 411240

Thank you. I'll have to get used to the image quality.
I'll head out soon and do some landscape shots and look at the quality of them.

 

[Dael_Pix]

I'm presuming you are using an adapter on the R5 with the 100-400?

It wouldn’t fit without - so that’s a fair assumption.

Like Phil said, it wouldn't fit.
RF lenses have more contact points than Canon DLSR lenses.

 

[Brentor]

I am having similar issues with my R7. Different sensor and APS-C but same problem. The DP tool shows the noise is even worse than the R5. I am comparing the noise on the R7 to the 5Diii, the 1DX and the 7Dii. I am coming to the conclusion that it is a combination of the higher MP, larger dimensions at 100%, poor light, subject matter (far from filling the image), high ISO, under exposure and lack of ability. Most of these factors are mentioned above.

The good news is that the AF system including eye detection is great and the images can be cleaned up by LR and Topaz denoise.

I am sure that once you get used to your new camera you will be very pleased. I tried an R6 in the summer and was impressed but I went for the R7 as I wanted the extra reach for bird photography.

 

[TimHughes]

Thank you. I'll have to get used to the image quality.

This doesn’t sound right to me. I also changed from 5DM4 and noise of the R5 has not been an issue. If you are certain that you have correctly exposed the image and there is an issue with noise I would take it in to be checked.

 

[Brentor]

This doesn’t sound right to me. I also changed from 5DM4 and noise of the R5 has not been an issue. If you are certain that you have correctly exposed the image and there is an issue with noise I would take it in to be checked.

If I look at the DP image comparison tool in the link provided by Steven above, it suggests that the R5 is noisier than the 5Div at 6400. Is it a case of not comparing like with like?

 

[nandbytes]

If I look at the DP image comparison tool in the link provided by Steven above, it suggests that the R5 is noisier than the 5Div at 6400. Is it a case of not comparing like with like?

you need look at them at the same image size i.e. higher MP downsized to equivalent lower MP
R5 by far retains the most details of the bunch, though noise performance looks to be about the same
It's a myth that lower MP gives you better noise performance, at equivalent image sizes with sensors of same generation the noise performance will be very similar.

 

[sk66]

you need look at them at the same image size i.e. higher MP downsized to equivalent lower MP
R5 by far retains the most details of the bunch, though noise performance looks to be about the same
It's a myth that lower MP gives you better noise performance, at equivalent image sizes with sensors of same generation the noise performance will be very similar.

The primary cause of image noise is photon shot noise... which is simply how noisy the signal being recorded is. A weak (dark) signal is *noisier than a stronger signal... the same ISO in bright light will result in less noise than it will in dim light (and dark parts of a scene).

Image noise is then a function of signal per image area. Recording the same thing at the same exposure on a smaller sensor is less total light/signal. Recording the same thing at the same exposure on the same size sensor is equivalent total light/signal.

And apparent noise is about magnification.... more megapixels is more magnification (at same % zoom), and enlarging a smaller sensor area (same output size) is also more magnification. More magnification makes the recorded noise more visible.


*edit: technically a stronger signal contains more noise; but the signal to noise ratio (SNR) is much better (i.e. the noise is buried)

 

[Dael_Pix]

I'll try going out tomorrow to do some landscapes. It'll be cold and cloudy as usual, so not the best light to test ISO. I'll take the tripod.

 

[Dael_Pix]

The quality of this isn't too bad compared to the non-denoise photo.
I use Lightroom, and was set to 30 in the denoise.

Tried uploading, but it was too small, so it's on my Google Drive

1/000
f5.6
ISO 5000

What do you think?

Time to head out and do take some landscapes.

 

[TimHughes]

The quality of this isn't too bad compared to the non-denoise photo.
I use Lightroom, and was set to 30 in the denoise.

Tried uploading, but it was too small, so it's on my Google Drive

1/000
f5.6
ISO 5000

What do you think?

Time to head out and do take some landscapes.

It's not great, is it? Hmm. A couple of questions:
- How much of a crop is it?
- Are you perhaps shooting through a window? These can destroy IQ, especially double or triple-glazed.
- Handheld or on a tripod?
- If handheld, is the stabilization switched on the lens itself? (note the menu option does not appear as the lens has IS, this is normal)

For birding shots with the same camera and lens at ISO 5000, I would expect a lot more detail unless it's either a big crop or a shot through a window.

Also, for a sitting bird you should be able to use a much lower shutter speed and so better ISO, either handheld with IS switched or on a tripod.

 

[Dael_Pix]

Tried uploading, but it was too small, so it's on my Google Drive

Meant to say too big

It's not great, is it? Hmm. A couple of questions:
- How much of a crop is it?
- Are you perhaps shooting through a window? These can destroy IQ, especially double or triple-glazed.
- Handheld or on a tripod?
- If handheld, is the stabilization switched on the lens itself? (note the menu option does not appear as the lens has IS, this is normal)

For birding shots with the same camera and lens at ISO 5000, I would expect a lot more detail unless it's either a big crop or a shot through a window.

Also, for a sitting bird you should be able to use a much lower shutter speed and so better ISO, either handheld with IS switched or on a tripod.

Not through window
Handheld
IS is on

I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with the camera body. Just my luck.


Photo before denoise. I have altered the colour of the image above, after I denoised it