Flash advice needed for a wedding shoot

Mike Dodson

Mike Dodson

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Mike Dodson
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Hi all,

I enjoy my photography, and have built up something of a reputation in my social circles for it, to the point that a friend has just asked me to cover her wedding.

Happily, I'm to be a jumped-up guest - I'll have sway as the 'Official Photographer' and license to take the first shots and order people about and stuff, but thankfully I've, er ... 'suggested' ... that I do more candid work as opposed to formal - thus I will be mainly using my 50mm, and thought perhaps my 75-300mm zoom.

However, for the more formal shots, I will be using my Tamron 10-24mm ultrawide, I would think, and since it's in March, will be doing a significant amount of shots indoors, so will use my flash gun, which I would think will be top-mounted (My flash gun is in no way clever - the most advanced thing about it is that it's got a wireless trigger function. It just switches on, and fires when I shoot - the head rotates through 90 degrees from vertical to horizontal).

I have a hard time with flash - I find it quite difficult to control, and wondered if anyone had any simple advice for using it (I'm not the sharpest tool at the picnic) - particularly in reference to aperture and speed - the Tam goes down to f3.5/4, and I don't really want to be shooting at less than 1/80th. I'm shooting on a Canon 450d, which gives me a maximum ISO of 1600, but I'm reluctant to go down that far as it does get very grainy. I can't afford to buy any more gear at the moment - much as I'd like to!

Do people tend to stick on one aperture and speed and then just fire away, or are you constantly fiddling? What is the best technique? I'll need to account for moving about quickly as well, I would think.

Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
 
Maybe you should consider whether you are ready to be the 'official' photographer at a wedding, its hardly the same as getting likes on facebook and asking questions about how to use flash whilst using a canon 450d and basic lenses is a recipe for lots of problems. Advise them to get a pro and second shoot if you can. Otherwise you need to get in tons of practice with the flash BEFORE you go anywhere near the wedding , there is no best technique you need to be competent with all techniques so you can adjust on the day - Bounce , Fill , HSS , natural light etc will all come into play. Ask the venue if you can spend a few hours there take a friend and get lots of time in - once you are at and doing the wedding it will become more obvious just how much pressure you will be under - not just the B&G who will expect shots to be of decent qualiaty but also all the guests who will be watching you and believe me there will be plenty of amateur togs there probably with better kit than you ready to shoot you down - that will not go down well in your 'social circles'
 
She's not got much money, is basing it on the idea that everyone's going to have a pocket camera there anyway as everyone does now, and likes my style, so asked me. In terms of being an 'Official Photograper' it doesn't mean anything other than what I said - that I'll get to take the first shots and order people about a little bit - I'm not claiming I'm David Bailey.

The advice to go to the venue first to play about was useful, thank you.
 
Mike Dodson said:
Hi all,

I enjoy my photography, and have built up something of a reputation in my social circles for it, to the point that a friend has just asked me to cover her wedding.

Happily, I'm to be a jumped-up guest - I'll have sway as the 'Official Photographer' and license to take the first shots and order people about and stuff, but thankfully I've, er ... 'suggested' ... that I do more candid work as opposed to formal - thus I will be mainly using my 50mm, and thought perhaps my 75-300mm zoom.

However, for the more formal shots, I will be using my Tamron 10-24mm ultrawide, I would think, and since it's in March, will be doing a significant amount of shots indoors, so will use my flash gun, which I would think will be top-mounted (My flash gun is in no way clever - the most advanced thing about it is that it's got a wireless trigger function. It just switches on, and fires when I shoot - the head rotates through 90 degrees from vertical to horizontal).

I have a hard time with flash - I find it quite difficult to control, and wondered if anyone had any simple advice for using it (I'm not the sharpest tool at the picnic) - particularly in reference to aperture and speed - the Tam goes down to f3.5/4, and I don't really want to be shooting at less than 1/80th. I'm shooting on a Canon 450d, which gives me a maximum ISO of 1600, but I'm reluctant to go down that far as it does get very grainy. I can't afford to buy any more gear at the moment - much as I'd like to!

Do people tend to stick on one aperture and speed and then just fire away, or are you constantly fiddling? What is the best technique? I'll need to account for moving about quickly as well, I would think.

Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
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Mike I'm going to warn you now, you're likely to come in for a lot of crap for this post.

You've basically came onto a car forum full of mechanics and said your friends asked you to fix his car with a hammer and chisel and you're going to give it a bash, rather than recommend he goes to a qualified mechanic. What can go wrong? :eek:

If you're going to do this you really need to manage your mates expectations because despite how good you think you are and how much your mates likes your shots, this is a tough tough gig.

One bit of good advice - make a shot list.
 
Hi UaeExile - thanks for the heads up - I don't want to upset people, I was just asking for a bit of advice - just as one might ask a carpenter about the best way to put up a shelf. I can't afford the designer gear and I'm not precious about it - I photograph for pleasure and am doing a friend a favour.

In terms of making a list - what were you referring to? Shots to take? Things to check out?
 
Mike Dodson said:
Hi UaeExile - thanks for the heads up - I don't want to upset people, I was just asking for a bit of advice - just as one might ask a carpenter about the best way to put up a shelf. I can't afford the designer gear and I'm not precious about it - I photograph for pleasure and am doing a friend a favour.

In terms of making a list - what were you referring to? Shots to take? Things to check out?
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Mainly shots to take. I shot a friends wedding and learned two things:

1. It is bloody hard work. Being on your feet all day and having to think on your feet whilst standing in front of lots of people who expect you to know what you're doing - despite the fact you're not a pro and you're doing it free.

2. Time just vanishes and with it so do the potential shots. Make a list to capture the rings, shoes, details, etc etc. Look at some professional websites and see if there's certain shots you'd like to take and make sure you know when and how you'll do it.

For example, I do want to pursue a career as a working professional in the not too distant future. I looked at tons of websites at peoples work and used my own wedding ring as practice. The same with the wifes shoes, the wife when she was pregnant etc etc. Basically looking to learn under no pressure before you're confronted with 30/50/100 guests all looking at you asking... Where do YOU want us?
 
No offence but stating on one hand you are shooting someone's wedding and on the other saying you don't know how to use a flash doesn't sound like the best start and shows that you are really not ready.

Talk to your friend again advise them strongly to get a proper photographer and tell them you will happily take a few shots as a guest.
 
She can't afford a professional. Hence asking me. I'm not a professional - I'm just someone asking for advice.

It's becoming quite clear that such is not welcome here, however.
 
Nothing wrong with asking for advice Mike, the advice i am giving you and probably others will comes from experience. You need to walk into it 'Eye wide open' its a tough gig and happens just the once that why us wedding togs get paid the big bucks :) Weddings are about handling people, handling pressure, diplomacy, knowing your equipment etc. You wont be able to hide behind the 'Im taking natural photos' banner on the day, people will come at you from all sides expecting different things and wont be bothered how experienced you are as you yourself have put yourself in the firing line as it were. You and your kit therefore need to be up to the job, have you considered asking someone else to go with you ( another tog ) even if just for company and experience ?
 
I have to admit I don't see the problem with this. I was asked to do some photos for a civil ceremony. They knew that at that time I didn't do portraits, I didn't even have a flash unit just the pop up. My photos were in no way brilliant but I did my best. However, they didn't have any money and although the pros on here could pick those photos to pieces, they are happy with them.

So as long as you make it absolutely clear were you are with your photography and that the results won't be anything like a pro, and they are happy with that. And if you are their only option due to cost, then go for it. But get on YouTube etc and learn as much as you can in the time. Oh and ask for advice on here just as you have.

PS welcome to TP :)
 
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Mike Dodson said:
She can't afford a professional. Hence asking me. I'm not a professional - I'm just someone asking for advice.

It's becoming quite clear that such is not welcome here, however.
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Due to the budget being zero i would go with the spray and pray approach, you will always get wedding togs going on about how they justify their prices so don't let that put you off. Would of made a great Friday night thread :rolleyes:
 
Mike Dodson said:
She can't afford a professional. Hence asking me. I'm not a professional - I'm just someone asking for advice.

It's becoming quite clear that such is not welcome here, however.
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I did try to warn you you might get a rough ride.

It's not that it's not welcome, just that these posts spring up regularly by people with little or no experience who are going to do one of the toughest gigs in photography. There's a reason wedding photographers charge so much. We're just trying to warn you that you might not be prepared as you might think..... :)
 
UaeExile said:
I did try to warn you you might get a rough ride.

It's not that it's not welcome, just that these posts spring up regularly by people with little or no experience who are going to do one of the toughest gigs in photography. There's a reason wedding photographers charge so much. We're just trying to warn you that you might not be prepared as you might think..... :)
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And after doing the ones I did I take my hat off to you wedding togs.... It was bloody hard work lol
 
Adam is quite correct, you will also find a number of these type threads on these forums and the tog goes off and does the gig and then never comes back to show any of their work ;) wonder why ?

That said if you work on your techniques and scope the venue out correctly you could well do a good job - your approach and method of asking is probably going to result in an endless list of people telling you your not good enough - because thats what you have said yourself in a round about way !
 
Raptor Mike said:
And after doing the ones I did I take my hat off to you wedding togs.... It was bloody hard work lol
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I'm not a wedding photographer, although I guess you could say I aspire to be one.

I've just been in a similar position to the OP and let's just say I learned the hard way :D
 
It is hard work, but it's doable. Our wedding was a low-key affair and our mate offered to do the photos. At the time we didn't give much of a rats ass about the photos - in fact, I don't even know where they are. There were enough nice ones to celebrate the moment and the rest is memories. I've shot one wedding and it was hard, but I loved every second of it (I love bossing people around) even though I had gear failures. Granted, I was used to shooting people as a portrait photographer so it wasn't completely blind, but what you wedding togs have to accept is some people really don't give a crap about the photos.
 
The23rdman said:
It is hard work, but it's doable. Our wedding was a low-key affair and our mate offered to do the photos. At the time we didn't give much of a rats ass about the photos - in fact, I don't even know where they are. There were enough nice ones to celebrate the moment and the rest is memories. I've shot one wedding and it was hard, but I loved every second of it (I love bossing people around) even though I had gear failures. Granted, I was used to shooting people as a portrait photographer so it wasn't completely blind, but what you wedding togs have to accept is some people really don't give a crap about the photos.
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Hammer, nail and head, if your short on budget for a wedding £1k for photos to live in the back of the wardrobe is not going to be a priority.
 
I was also asked to do a wedding (A) - and at the time I didn't even have a flash and my only back up camera was a compact.

I was able to be the third (yes - third) photographer at another wedding (B) as a practice. So no responsibility at all.

My 'appointment' as photographer to wedding (A) was actually cancelled shortly before my practice at (B).

It didnt take much involvement in planning B, let alone taking part on the actual day, to realise that I had had a very lucky escape.

Now I restrict myself to suggesting other people from the camera club who charge less than a professional and maybe being second photographer if that's OK with whoever the couple choose.
 
Dean, Those couples would not then go asking people to do their photos for free would they, they would just leave disposables on the tables or gather phone pics after the event.

This thread is not about a couple who dont care its about a couple who dont want to pay. Simple test of the theory - charge them a small amount to cover your editing time ....

The vast majority of these threads involve a couple who have spotted a cheap way of getting a service which they would otherwise have paid for by asking a friend with a camera to do the work of a professional under the guise of not being bothered about the results. The same couple who have normally spent 1k plus on a dress , 1k on rings , 5k on a venue etc , dont get me wrong we have all been there and started somewhere but as this is my trade and profession i have every right as do other pro wedding togs to answer when people ask the question and no interest in buttering people up telling them it will be easy. I have photographed 300 weddings and still come across awkward situations and times when i am pressured and have to think well outside the box - i know my camera as well as i do my right arm though and have the experience and composure to deal with things as they happen and still deliver the results.

Would i rather be sat watching the sun go down with a tripod bunch of filters and all the time in the world, would i rather be in a white walled room with an umbrella and screaming kids, would i rather be wandering round a room of people with perfect prints and frames discussing the merits of their paper and competing for the best black and white shot of a piece of barbed wire ( camera club ) ?

No !! , because i love the challenge of wedding photography , and I love the resulting feeling of delivering that gorgeous album which a couple will treasure and pass on for generations to come. For me its the combination of skills learnt from Landscapes Portraits Action and more that come together to make a great wedding photographer, a whole lot of time effort money and learning go into it so if people think you're getting precious about it, maybe you have every right to be.
 
The23rdman said:
Again, some couples really don't care about the photography. This seems to be impossible for some myopic pros to accept.
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No absolutley not. Its a little difficult to give good, honest advice to somone who has 'a hard time with flash - I find it quite difficult to control', and who is asking some questions which lead one to think there will be a bit of a disaster.No offence OP

Now my myopic advice then.

From what you've said if you can refuse do. Even though she's your friend and claims no expextations of you, I bet she'll have them (thas from experience, not myopia) and I'm sure you'd rather spend time with your friends and family. Maybe get little drunk and enjoy the day. Non of which you'll do as photographer. Take photos, and share afterwards but without any pressure.

However if you feel you must to it for whatever reason, don't worry about settings. Nobody ever saw a great photo and asked what mode it was shot in outside of photography forums. Put your camera in whichever mode you're used to and use that all day. Concentrate on people and your photos will follow. Learn to bounce your flash. Assuming the ceilings in the room are normal and neutral colours the bounce to about 20 degrees behind you. Using bounced flash in TTL mode is not hard, and will probably get some great results. You do need to watch your shutter speeds a little. The only settings advice is never let shuttter go below 1/60 all day.

But really, talk her out of it
 
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Andrew Davies Photography said:
Dean, Those couples would not then go asking people to do their photos for free would they, they would just leave disposables on the tables or gather phone pics after the event.

This thread is not about a couple who dont care its about a couple who dont want to pay. Simple test of the theory - charge them a small amount to cover your editing time ....

The vast majority of these threads involve a couple who have spotted a cheap way of getting a service which they would otherwise have paid for by asking a friend with a camera to do the work of a professional under the guise of not being bothered about the results. The same couple who have normally spent 1k plus on a dress , 1k on rings , 5k on a venue etc , dont get me wrong we have all been there and started somewhere but as this is my trade and profession i have every right as do other pro wedding togs to answer when people ask the question and no interest in buttering people up telling them it will be easy. I have photographed 300 weddings and still come across awkward situations and times when i am pressured and have to think well outside the box - i know my camera as well as i do my right arm though and have the experience and composure to deal with things as they happen and still deliver the results.

Would i rather be sat watching the sun go down with a tripod bunch of filters and all the time in the world, would i rather be in a white walled room with an umbrella and screaming kids, would i rather be wandering round a room of people with perfect prints and frames discussing the merits of their paper and competing for the best black and white shot of a piece of barbed wire ( camera club ) ?

No !! , because i love the challenge of wedding photography , and I love the resulting feeling of delivering that gorgeous album which a couple will treasure and pass on for generations to come. For me its the combination of skills learnt from Landscapes Portraits Action and more that come together to make a great wedding photographer, a whole lot of time effort money and learning go into it so if people think you're getting precious about it, maybe you have every right to be.
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Seriously, your self-importance is frightening. Have you looked at the economics of the world right now? There are plenty of people who have nowhere near even a grand as a budget for a wedding. Get out of your middle class reality tunnel.
 
shreds said:
Trust me, the bride and her mother will care.

So ensure you keep them happy, whatever.
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Not a given. My wife and her mother enjoyed the day, but they're both too grounded to care much about photos.
 
Some couples can barely find the fee some wedding photographers charge to pay for the whole wedding.

Some of the best weddings I have been to have been where everything has been supplied by friends. Food, photography, decoration, entertainment. Not everyone has hundreds or thousands to spend on it and not everyone needs to.

My advice to the OP is to get a willing subject and practice. This is what I did when I wanted to work out how to do fill flash for the first wedding I photographed - yes, it was for some friends and I did it for free!!

With a digital camera, you have the luxury of being able to see what effect your settings are having )I didn't have that luxury with an RB67 and a Vivitar 285).


Steve.
 
Embroiled Dean ? you are actually stoking the fire with comments like that ! Middle Class Reality Tunnels LOL I live in Middlesbrough there are no classes here :) We look up to everyone

and 'too grounded to care about photos' ? , begs the question what on earth you are doing on a photography forum if that's your view of it.

Reality - we live in the recession hit times we do and I along with other photographers have packages which suit all budgets so even people on tight budgets can at least get coverage for the most important parts and then uncle bob can play with his camera for the rest of the day knowing he's not under pressure.
 
Undoubtedly agree, weddings can get over egged. One of the most memorable I ever went to was at a registry office and the reception was a picnic, in a field, full of thistles with a herd of cows, next to a castle, because they couldn't afford the entrance fees to the castle.

It was bring your own food and sarnies.

So different.

.........and even better, I didn't have to take my camera either!

But I still view that as an exceptional wedding with a very determined and driven bride.

In the interim, why not pester every Pro in your area for the chance to be second, third or just casual shooter. You will pick up some tips. Finally, there are loads of courses out there run by Pro's to teach people wedding or flash photography. And they don't all cost the earth. Joe McNally did an event on lighting for Amateur Photography a few weeks ago, Damian McGuillycuddy did a freebie on lighting at the SWPP Convention and has a series of reasonably priced events around the country with the opportunity to learn.

Scott Kelby has a series of four really good little books that cut to the chase reasonably quickly.

I don't know how long you have got before the event, but keep your eyes peeled, there are opportunities to learn and everyone started somewhere.

Oh and that shot list.....absolutely crucial. Decide what you want before the event.

Do check out and do a shoot with friends as models at the the Church/hotel/registry office/park etc. Check out vantage points, unusual angles, balconies etc.

I did one shoot where the couple wanted golden Autumn leaves and a walk in the park. I checked it a couple of days before and the leaves were most definitely still pea green and clinging to the trees. We went ahead and did the shots anyway. The couple never noticed in the heat of the wedding day or recognised the tweaks in PS afterwards what I had done and were heard on another occasion to be telling friends how they had chosen an autumn wedding for the lovely colours!

Hey, why not put the bride and groom through their paces once or twice and take them with you beforehand, say at least a month or so. They will get to know the poses you want. (Read up on wedding poses there is quite a lot on the net or books that will give you ideas. Take these books round to the couple and check out how you would all like them done. (Don't be too ambitious and recognise your limitations, cherry pickers and drones should be out!).

They will feel a lot more comfortable with you if they know what to expect.

Finally, have absolutely no drinks on the day, even the toast should be a glass to the lips then give someone else the glass, with the excuse you must head off to do another shot. Booze is an absolute no no when you are shooting 'professionally' for someone, even if there is no money changing hands.
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
So Chris your logic after realizing the skill needed for weddings is to suggest other amateurs from a camera club who charge less than a professional ? Give me strength
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The problem with forum posts, e-mails and other forms of one way communication - ie when there is no non-verbal communication and no chance of immediate response - is that messages can be easily misunderstood based on the pre-existing views of the receiver.

Also it is tedious to give all the ins and outs of a sequence of events in writing. And people then get annoyed and irritated by things in a way that just would not happen if the discussion was face to face.

So to try and fill in the background and maybe some missing bits ...

  • the people making the request know that I won't do weddings
  • they didn't want a professional photographer - for whatever reason
  • they asked me to suggest somebody who would do a wedding, because they know that I know quite a few photographers
  • the largest group of photographers I know is at the local camera club
  • so I asked the Chairman (who knows the most people - and I am a relatively new member and so I don't know the interests of many) who in the past had done weddings
  • he gave me the names of two people
  • I asked if they were interested and could I put their names forward
  • when I passed on the names I also gave an indication of their experience and specifically said that one did not use flash but the other one did
  • I also gave them a checklist of guidance to PHOTOGRAPHERS on how to plan and carry out a wedding shoot:
  • I suggested that they use the guidance to ask questions of the two suggested people so that they could assess which one seemed most suitable for them
So far as I am concerned I responded in a reasonable and responsible way to the request I received from a friend.

Also .... (and I apologise to the OP for going off thread - but I hope the link above to guidance compensates:)) I know that people on this site tend to have a low opinion of camera clubs. I'm not quite sure why this is. My best guess is that it is because of a bad experience at a club where all the focus was on kit (or something equivalent) and not on improving the photographic skills of its members.

I can only speak of the club I go to - Melton Mowbray Photographic Society: http://www.meltonphotographic.co.uk/ where this is definitely not the case.

Whilst it is true that I did not find last year very interesting - because the relatively few evenings I attended seemed to consist of people showing loads of pictures - the Society leaders obviously took note of a survey of members' views and this year's programme is excellent.

Just one example; only last week the Society organised a day's tuition for just £15 (audience of +20) with Jeff Morgan: http://www.elmstudio.com/

At least one person said they had got more out of it than workshops that had cost them £150.
 
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At the risk of....

I personally find it hilarious when pro's think they should be the only game in town. :ROFLMAO:

Incompetents advertising their services are a blight on the industry Andrew and I would agree completely about. But shooting a mates wedding is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. As long as everyone involved knows exactly what the score is.

If the OP knows what he's in for and only has an issue with flash use, the answer is simple. Get out and practice, watch YouTube videos, buy books, ask questions in the lighting section, but if you want straightforward 'use of flash' advice, you can avoid the nutters by not mentioning weddings.

Shooting weddings isn't 'easy', but it's not open heart surgery either.
 
NB Just seen Ian/Shreds post - and it is is excellent advice. The only thing I would add is ....

...under no circumstances see yourself as a 'friend' - even for only part of the evening.

It just won't work - if you are the photographer you need to concentrate on photography. You can't join in with the laughs/good time that everyone else is (hopefully) having:)
 
shreds said:
In the interim, why not pester every Pro in your area for the chance to be second, third or just casual shooter.
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Because if they are any good at all, they will almost certainly invite you to kindly bugger off.
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Because if they are any good at all, they will almost certainly invite you to kindly bugger off.
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I would have thought it was trying IF you could get some kind of intro; for example at the wedding of a friend of a friend.

And you made it clear to the pro that you would not be getting in the way.

Another alternative is just to hang around and observe several other people - not necessarily just pros - to see what you can learn from their good and bad practice. This would only cover external shots but could still be very worth while for you.
 
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Im going to chime in here and hopefully help the OP.

Im no expert having only shot 15 weddings in the last 12 - 15 months. Which is nothing in comparison to some of the guys on here however I also started shooting weddings from the 'my mate wants me to help him' perspective. So, here are my suggestions as what you are being asked is perfectly doable, not unreasonable, and for some the beginning of a beautiful career....for others it may just be their worst nightmare and the end of a friendship!!

1- Know your gear. You need to know your gear inside out and back to front. You need to be able to instinctively change settings without faffing. Know the limits of your gear and if you know that your gear isn't up to the job, hire gear that is. Low light...get a faster lens.
2 - Set expectations, in writing (a friendly email would suffice). something along the lines of ' Hi mate, It would be a pleasure to shoot your wedding. I am no pro and you have seen and understand my skill level, and I would recommend you seek a pro however, if you need to me to take images if your day I will do. Please don't expect miracles however I will do my best. Happy to take a few formals and maybe some of the ceremony. Lets gave a chat about what can be done. Looking forward to being at your wedding, kind regards blah blah' If, worst case scenario, it all goes t)ts up it is clear to all parties.
3- people skills - you need them. and patience!
4 - Lighting. Understand it, where, when how to use it. 2 good books are 'understanding exposure' and anything by neil van nierk. Check his 'tangent' blogs
5 - practice, on anyone, anything anywhere. I drove my family nuts when I was preparing for my first wedding. I took shots of my wife whilst she was cooking so that I could understand how ETTL worked in low light and how to balance ambient with flash.
6- speak to the registrar, vicar, couple about where you can stand on the day. Do not p*ss off the reg / vicar etc. There is no need, mutual agreement upfront is what any good pro would do.
7- Practice.
8 - for the formals, watch your backgrounds. Nothing worse than a branch sticking out of the brides ears.
9 - Ask questions. The pros on here can be a friendly bunch all willing to impart a wealth of information and tips......I have learnt a lot from this forum. They are also, naturally, protective of their industry and business. So don't take too much to heart lol!
10 - Have fun, you are guest as well. I once said to a couple, that I was a guest at the wedding as well ' right guys, im putting the camera away and having a beer, now..lets dance!!!' I took some great shots & had a great time.
11 - practice!
12 - beware of small children behind you! I once trod on one, lots of screaming and crying....I quickly rescued the situation by giving him the camera and letting him take a group shot, I then snuck behind the group and got a shot of him taking the shot....know how to turn situations to your advantage lol!!!

Hope the above helps in some way....

Oh, and practice!
 
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